CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: william on August 21, 2017, 02:58:04 PM

Title: Caveat Emptor..funky rivets
Post by: william on August 21, 2017, 02:58:04 PM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z-28-/263158033252?hash=item3d4570eb64:g:My0AAOSw5FpZmihq&vxp=mtr

124379N685761

Body tag rivets not OE, tag has been off the car. At least...
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor..funky rivets
Post by: jdv69z on August 21, 2017, 03:42:33 PM
Later model carb.
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor..funky rivets
Post by: bertfam on August 21, 2017, 03:57:07 PM
And I LOVE those broach marks!!

Ed
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor..funky rivets
Post by: 69Z28-RS on August 21, 2017, 07:13:37 PM
And I LOVE those broach marks!!

Ed


LOL...   you must have Xray vision?  :)   
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor..funky rivets
Post by: jdv69z on August 21, 2017, 08:20:49 PM
So how common was a passenger side mirror in 69?
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor..funky rivets
Post by: bertfam on August 21, 2017, 08:52:38 PM
Quote
So how common was a passenger side mirror in 69?

No way to know. The passenger side mirror was a dealer installed accessory so GM didn't keep records of how many were installed.

Ed
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor..funky rivets
Post by: z28z11 on August 22, 2017, 12:37:35 AM
And I LOVE those broach marks!!

Ed

Ed, you know they look to me like factory deck crosshatch hand lapping to help hold the steel gaskets in place when they turned the block upside down to mount the heads.

Sorry - too much sun during the eclipse event here today - I might be mistaken.

Regards,
Steve
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor..funky rivets
Post by: 68Zproject on August 22, 2017, 03:29:45 PM
It seems they've added that the block was decked and re-stamped during restoration.  To me that just means non born with block.  It may be the born with, but no way to prove it other than hearsay.
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor..funky rivets
Post by: bertfam on August 22, 2017, 03:54:24 PM
No longer available.

Ed
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor..funky rivets
Post by: VINCE Z28 on August 22, 2017, 10:41:36 PM
Is the paper work good on this car?
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor..funky rivets
Post by: Pacecar on August 23, 2017, 02:04:44 PM
Knowing the casting date helps in a situation where the block has been decked. Obviously, not totally but the right date should help.
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor..funky rivets
Post by: 68 Ragtop on August 29, 2017, 01:52:37 PM
From the auction:

On Aug-21-17 at 16:59:54 PDT, seller added the following information:
Several additional points need to be added.  The Z-28 has been certified by Jerry McNeish and all of the numbers have been verified.  Also the engine block was 'decked' upon being rebuilt and re-stamped.  The smog pump is not the original that came on the car, but possibly a reproduction.
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor..funky rivets
Post by: X33RS on August 29, 2017, 02:55:48 PM
It seems they've added that the block was decked and re-stamped during restoration.  To me that just means non born with block.  It may be the born with, but no way to prove it other than hearsay.

Actually there is.  Norwood was already stamping the vins at the oil filter well before this Z was produced.  Wouldn't really matter if it was decked or not, if the vin is still legible at the oil filter and matches the (untampered) hidden vins on the car, that answers the question.    If the car in question is a real Z, and the vin stamp on the block is legit, there leaves little doubt that it has it's born with DZ motor.
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor..funky rivets
Post by: maroman on August 29, 2017, 03:23:34 PM
But why restamp the front pad after it was decked.  It LOOKS like they are trying to fake something.
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor..funky rivets
Post by: 68Zproject on August 29, 2017, 04:08:40 PM
I guess I should have been more precise.  Being a 68 owner I didn't take into consideration the change in vin stamps on 69's, but my point is that if you provide a picture of an obviously re-stamped block and claim it's born with, red flags go up with me.  There are ways to authenticate some of these 69 engines, but for me, I will always have doubts as it looks they're trying to deceive.  They may not be but with all the bs out there I am very jaded.
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor..funky rivets
Post by: X33RS on August 29, 2017, 05:21:30 PM
If it can be verified definitively through the vin stamp, then there is no deception with the DZ stamp, they simply replaced what was already there.  On the flip side others would still complain if there were no stamp at all so you can't win either way.  However, with the documention of what was done, the rebuild that included decking, all disclosure, then there really shouldn't be an issue.  The vin stamp proves it's legitimacy.   In this case, on top of all that,  things were also verified with Jerry McNeish, whom some consider the last word, or at least good reassurance of what you're buying. 

   Without the vin stamp at the oil filter obviously that changes the whole perspective.   In this case, December and onward for 69 Norwood cars,  it's a benefit making it easier to document.  We don't necessarily have to weigh everything solely on that engine pad stamp.  I agree, nice to have, but......
 
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor..funky rivets
Post by: maroman on August 29, 2017, 05:55:35 PM
Different words, but that's what I meant 68Z. You said it much better.
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor..funky rivets
Post by: KurtS on August 30, 2017, 12:59:10 AM
I've heard of shops tell people - don't worry about the numbers - we'll deck it and then restamp the numbers.