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Camaro Research Group Discussion => Maintenance => Topic started by: 68Zproject on May 27, 2017, 04:21:35 AM

Title: 68 Muncie talishaft
Post by: 68Zproject on May 27, 2017, 04:21:35 AM
Does anyone know if all the 3857584 tailshafts are the same?  I've purchased an old school Hurst comp plus to replace my repop Muncie shifter and got the bracket that bolts to the tailshaft like a 69 rather than the u-bolt bracket that goes under the cross member that is supposed to go on 68's.  The problem is the bracket that is supplied wont allow the shifter body to line up before it hits a web for the forward bolt on my tailshaft.  I have my original transmission with a 3857584 tailshaft but that of course may not be the one that the transmission came with originally.  So I'm just wondering if I need a different bracket or what?  The circled part in the picture will not allow the shifter body to go forward enough to line up with the lower bolt hole, it hits this web.
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Title: Re: 68 Muncie talishaft
Post by: bcmiller on May 27, 2017, 07:52:16 PM
I have some tail housings but will need to look at them later.  Then I will let you know.
Title: Re: 68 Muncie talishaft
Post by: bcmiller on May 28, 2017, 01:39:03 PM
The housings are all the same as far as I know.  I just checked three here at home.

Can't tell from the pic as to what is wrong.  More pics might help. Are you sure the bracket is on corrrectly?
Title: Re: 68 Muncie talishaft
Post by: bcmiller on May 28, 2017, 07:46:51 PM
Something isn't quite right with that bracket. Do you have the installation instructions?

See this link to see what originals in 1969 looked like.

Later I can try to get you a pic of the 67-68 aftermarket bracket.
Title: Re: 68 Muncie talishaft
Post by: 68Zproject on May 28, 2017, 11:58:37 PM
Unfortunately, that's the bracket that came with the shifter for a 69 application.  I've seen dozens of different kinds of brackets that would probably work, but that was when there were actual speed shops you could go to get one.  I'm trying to avoid the 67-68 bracket as that attaches to the crossmember which is what the Muncie has and why it locks up.

I'm pretty sure the bracket is the problem and it isn't just a 68 issue because the 69 tailshaft would be the same.  I'm going to call the guy on Tuesday and see if there's a better bracket.  BTW it only would go on one way.  It's a slick setup but it doesn't allow the shifter body to rotate forward enough to line up to the lower hole for the shifter body as it hits that fin in the circle.  If it was thicker, it might work.  The stock 69 one looks like it might work but who knows?  I'd also like the stick to line up with the stock hole and boot.  Just wondered if anyone else came across something like this.  I have the same question on TC and there might be more people that have gone this route to know what the issue is.  Thanks for your help though.
Title: Re: 68 Muncie talishaft
Post by: Stingr69 on May 29, 2017, 01:12:30 AM

'69 Muncie was a 1 year only setup. '70 and up had a completely different 3-hole tailshaft bolting pattern. '68 and older Muncies had the same tailshaft housing but used a nut to retain the shift shaft levers so they got totally different install kits designed for the nut retained shifter shaft levers.
Aftermarket Hurst shifter install kits from back in the day designed for '69 Camaros re-used the original GM factory shifter mounting plate on the 5 hole tailshaft housing.  That tailshaft housing was common to Muncies '69 and earlier BUT the shift shaft levers on the side cover were different on 68 and older trannys and use a nut to attach levers to the shift shafts.  '69 was the first year to use a bolt to attach the shift shaft levers.  The '69 and up bolt on shifter shaft levers do not interchange with the older '68 style trannys.

Most other applications used the Hurst provided "universal" shifter mounting plate.
'68 Camaro was a different install kit and had different transmission levers designed for "bolt on" shift shafts.

At some point later, Hurst started providing a 2-piece mounting plate with the '69 Camaro shifter install kits. No need to source an original GM part.

Your bracket does not look to be installed right. 

Title: Re: 68 Muncie talishaft
Post by: 68Zproject on May 29, 2017, 05:17:21 AM
Yes, this purchase was a mix.  I got the install kit and shifter for 68 but the mount for 69 as I didn't want to attach to the crossmember again like my Muncie that locked up all the time.  It has the correct arms for my stud shifter ends.  I did have the mount upside down in the picture but fixed that (don't work on your car after a 12 hour plane trip).  After getting it attached correctly, the shifter where the stick goes in hits the back of my cut out in the floor.  I guess what I'm looking for is some mount that bolts to the trans instead of the crossmember and will put the stick in the center of the stock cutout.  With the 69 bracket I was given in the kit, the shifter body needs to go forward about 1 1/2".  Was the 69's transmission cutout farther back than the 68?  Or did the whole engine and transmission sit farther forward than 68 by 1 1/2"?  Maybe that's why Hurst only sells the crossmember mount for 68?
Title: Re: 68 Muncie talishaft
Post by: 68Zproject on May 29, 2017, 06:24:01 AM
I think that's the issue.  The 69 hole seems to be back about 2" further than mine.;topic=8472.0;attach=7209

According to this diagram my measurement from the v crease in the floor to the back of the cutout is 6 1/2" and it's over 8 in this 69 one.

So the question would be, Is there any bracket to make my shifter line up with the cutout besides going with the crossmember mounted one?
Title: Re: 68 Muncie talishaft
Post by: bcmiller on May 29, 2017, 11:26:01 AM
The 67-68 aftermarket Hurst bracket is NOT mounted to the crossmember.

Let me find a pic.
Title: Re: 68 Muncie talishaft
Post by: bcmiller on May 29, 2017, 11:30:11 AM
This works for 68s.

You can't mix parts from different years and make it work "in most cases".  Trust me, I have tried.

Title: Re: 68 Muncie talishaft
Post by: Stingr69 on May 29, 2017, 01:44:14 PM
The only way to mix-match this setup is to use:

'69 and up "bolt-on" style shift shafts.
'69 and up "bolt-on" style shift shaft levers
linkage for a '69
'69 GM shifter mounting bracket OR a Hurst 2-piece '69 only specific mounting bracket.
'69 Camaro/Firebird specific shifter

Tail housing is fine, transmission case is fine.

Console will fit and install as original.


The only other option is to install the complete '68 Hurst aftermarket assembly. It will still work well. MUCH better than the original GM Muncie shifter. 

Been there, done that, t-shirt does not fit anymore.  ;)

Title: Re: 68 Muncie talishaft
Post by: 68Zproject on May 29, 2017, 03:55:14 PM
Thanks guys.  I spent way too much time looking at this last night and figured the problem is in the cutout for the 69 vs. 68.  69 is back just about the distance I would need to center the shifter in my hole which is probably why they have that funky 68 set up.  I know technically it bolts to the tranny but it does sit on the crossmember.  Maybe it'll be alright, it's my only option unless there is someone making a custom mount.  I'm just going to send the whole install kit back and exchange it for the 68 one and let them know this info for future people that try what I did.  Trouble is they are on vacation until June 4th.  I need a shop damn it.  Long story.
Title: Re: 68 Muncie talishaft
Post by: bcmiller on May 29, 2017, 10:51:23 PM
I have plans to develop a custom mount, but it probably won't be available this year.
Title: Re: 68 Muncie talishaft
Post by: crashent on November 29, 2017, 03:10:16 AM
I know I'm a little late to the party, but if your looking for a custom shifter mount I have all the combinations covered for 1st gen. Camaros...

Big Block and Small Block locations for 1967-68-69 using  early Muncie/late Muncie/ ST-10...

In the first post the shifter mount is on wrong, need to rotate clockwise...

Hope this helps... Crash
Title: Re: 68 Muncie talishaft
Post by: Kelley W King on November 29, 2017, 01:53:46 PM
When I got my 69 it had a 68 hurst shifter. During resto they installed a tunnel repair part for the shifter hole and must have used the 68 shifter to align it. Using the 69 mount plate I could not engage 2nd or 4th gear because the shifter hit the tunnel metal. Since mine is a non console car I was able to shave some metal off the tunnel and make it work. Mine did not take 2 inches and factory boot covered it all (with the mounting holes relocated). Not factory correct but it did work.