CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: BULLITT65 on May 03, 2017, 06:43:06 AM
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So I have been on the hunt for a 67 Camaro (driver type car)and have probably looked at about 6 or 7 in person, and many more on the net. I was set on finding a 4 speed car. Well I did find a really nice original one but it was an automatic, so I passed. I saw many junky ones and passed on them as well. So I thought maybe I should expand my search and added a few models into the mix. So almost everyday I would check ebay daily as well as craigslist and do some random searches. Well a few weeks ago I hit the jackpot.
It was a funny listing for a 69 camaro with a 302, but then had a super small pic of a white SS. It had only been posted for 37 minutes, so I emailed the seller and got lucky, since I was the first one to contact him. He said it was his uncles car who is 82 years old, and since his hip/knee surgury a while back he was ready to sell. I told him I was very interested and would be on the road quickly, and I knew he was a bit of a drive from me, I asked if he could be patient for me to get there, and let me be the first to see it.
He texted me a couple of real pics of the car, and I was blown away:
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I gathered up my kids and hit the road. With SoCal traffic took me 2 hours to get there. The nephew and his uncle were both there, and the car was sitting in the driveway just like in the pic. The car had been repainted about 10 years ago, but because the owner and his brother raced a Rambler on a regular basis, he never thought of modifying the 69 Camaro. So I am skeptical, after seeing so many fakes and i start looking the car over. On the phone his nephew was adamant it was a original Z with the 302. So I looked at the engine pad, NO DZ stamp... something from a 71 chevy I think. So I showed them my book I was looking at and explained the motor was not original to the car (more on that later). I I quickly realize it is a LA 69 Camaro (no X code), so it is going to take a bit of investigating to really know what this car is. SO I ask him if I can borrow his floor jack, and i spend the next couple of hours going over the car.
Turns out it did have the original M-20 trans with VIN, and also has the original 12 bolt (3:55) dated to the car. It is a early (10B) Los Angeles car. So I continue to look it over, it has half of the original CB radiator (1 tank had been switched upon re-corring), and he had 3 of the original AD 15" rally wheels. As I continued to look it over my skepticism was turning into optimism, more and more clues presented themselves as the car being an original 69 Z/28. I went over what I had found with the owner and his nephew and we agreed on a price.
Well to make a long story short he had misplaced the title, we worked out the details with the DMV, and I got the car.
Yesterday I got the title in the mail, and the current registration.
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Flat hood, short spoiler, RS, nice! And no worries about damaging a real DZ - will make a great driver to enjoy.
Did you check for a broadcast copy on top of the gas tank?
Congrats!!
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I am pretty excited about the car, just need to arrange a parking spot for it. I am not exactly in an area where I can throw up a pole barn, so I have to shuffle a few things to make it happen.Even though the car does not have the original motor, I got extremely lucky finding it for the price I paid (thank you to Jack fellow CRG member for the 2nd opinion over the phone). As far as I can tell it is an original RS Z, with the endura bumper option. Originally Dover white, with black standard interior. No gauges or console, just speedo and fuel gauge, but from the torsion bars in the trunk I am guessing an original (short) spoiler car. The owner had a friend who bought the car new in 68. The friend then saw the new 70 body style and placed an order for one. The 82 year old seller (Robert) waited and the day his friend brought the 69 to the dealership to trade in for the 70 when it arrived, he followed up and hour later and purchased it from the original selling dealer. So he has had the car since 70. I am technically the 3rd owner. I was able to get the original DZ carb, and smog equipment, but the P.OP. and any other original items are probably still buried at his house. They are suppose to be doing a big clean up soon, so I hope they find (many) more items for the car. It does have the original heads, intake, and exhaust manifolds as well, and from what I can tell all the original sheet metal looks rust free. (save for a small repair in the rear window channel)
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So as the story goes about 10 years ago he needed to get the car past smog, and it was running a bit rough. He took it to a local mechanic that had worked at a local speed shop at one time, for a tune up to get it past smog. The motor was supposedly freshened up and re-installed.This is the only instance of the motor being out of the car. So I have been digging and I think that the motor is here in the SoCal area still. Maybe I will get lucky and locate it. Southern California is a big place, but 10 years ago is only 2007, so maybe it got shelved. (Looking for a 3932386 block, with partial Vin 9L503xxx)
For now I will just run the 350 thats in it. I have started collecting original parts for it, but the list is very long. Many Mickey Mouse repairs and installs over the years: the radio swap to a new 80's stereo and speakers all around, a very early version of a alarm system, a few locking gas cap mishaps, and when it was painted looks like they put reproduction fenders on it.
I did drop the tank, looking for a broadcast copy, but only came across 2 broken remnants of gas caps in the tank. BUT it looks like the tank had never been removed, so maybe the broadcast copy is still in the car somewhere...
(Original lid left outside for the past 40 years. This is after 30 minutes of fine steel wool and elbow grease)
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I was able to locate 2 more AD wheels, so the 17" polished Torq thrust will be coming off and saved for another car I am in the middle of.
The AD wheels and some extra BFG's will be the rolling stock soon, and I can slowly (very slowly) get this car back to stock. The white with the black stripes is cool, and to have a RS with the Endura bumper, really sets it apart from my red car. (would really love to get the paint corrected on the front grill area). I ordered the NCRS dealer paperwork, and it was originally sold at Clippinger Chevrolet in Covina. So if anyone runs across a set of license plate frames send me a PM. (can't afford the set on ebay $498 :o )
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I will ad to this post as I find parts for the car, and install them.
The worst part of the car is the engine compartment. Can't wait to find some original parts, and get it looking original in there again.
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Congrats Austin!! That will make a great driver. Looking forward to more pics and info when you get a chance.
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Good to read more about the car, love these sort of stories. Missed the VE3 bumper in the first picture you posted, that's a nice detail. I have a pair of Clippinger dealer plate frames but they're to go on my car, which also came from that dealer. Crazy prices on them nowadays, but I guess not too many left.
Does the car still have it's original jack in the trunk?
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Wow, what a nice find! You just never know for sure what might be on the other end of a non-descriptive craigslist ad.
It sounds like there may be more original parts to come when they do their cleanup!
Congrats on the find and the detective work!
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Awesome! Good for you, Austin. :D
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Congrats Austin. Send me some pics of the trans & diff stamps when you get time. Thanks.
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Very nice A. Looks like you snagged a nice one! Hope it meets all your needs. Looks like it will.
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Whew.. finally! :) I've been waiting 2 weeks for you to inform us (CRG) of your great find. I Love the white/black! Only thing that could be better re color would be a red interior.. :)
PS. The 350 ci engine (with orig Z28 topper parts - heads/intake/etc) will be great with the 3.55 rear for a real to-anywhere driver car...
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Good to read more about the car, love these sort of stories. Missed the VE3 bumper in the first picture you posted, that's a nice detail. I have a pair of Clippinger dealer plate frames but they're to go on my car, which also came from that dealer. Crazy prices on them nowadays, but I guess not too many left.
Does the car still have it's original jack in the trunk?
Yes it has the endura jack hook in the trunk, looks kinda archaic to me. The Clippinger Chevrolet license frames are out there, its just that one guy who has 4 of them on ebay who thinks they are gold. (1 just sold for $60 on ebay this week, still a bit high for me).
Gary I wanted to make sure I had the title before posting on here. I was pretty sure it would work out, and the seller and his nephew are very nice guys.( I am going to meet up with the nephew here in the future and swap some parts with him)
Yes a red or off colored interior would have set off the white, but seriously , there is no complaining going on here... :)
*Speaking of which I am looking for many early Z parts, I plan on starting a new thread for Los Angeles cars and the differences observed in parts and assembly . I have been able to make contact with a couple of guys (2) that have early L.A. 69 Z cars, but it would be nice to be able to pool more info than just their cars and mine (3). I have also gotten some useful info from Vinny with his early norwood Z.
Please PM me if you have a lead on early Z cars or parts, so I can better piece together this time frame .
Finally, Thanks everyone for your support. It took all my experience on here with your guys comments and insight on many other cars for me to be able to pull the trigger on this car. ;)
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Congratulations Austin!!! I love that the car still retains it's original California black license plates. 8)
Paul
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Plates were a great bonus. Plus a cost saver. Those black and yellow plates can be pricey now a days, especially since the DMV now runs a program so you can put them on older cars that don't have them.
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When you have time, can you grab a couple of detail pictures of the jack assembly (especially mast and base) so I can update the LA vs NOR bumper jack design thread?
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Way to go Austin! Congratulations! A 3.55 gear ratio is interesting too!
Great find and have fun with it.....
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When you have time, can you grab a couple of detail pictures of the jack assembly (especially mast and base) so I can update the LA vs NOR bumper jack design thread?
If you PM me your email I will email them to you as soon as I take the pics.
Way to go Austin! Congratulations! A 3.55 gear ratio is interesting too!
Great find and have fun with it.....
Thanks Chick.
The fun has already begun! I have been shopping for good deals already and planning the clean up. Getting a title and being able to share the news with you guys is all part of the fun. Hopefully I can make a few low budget changes and take it for a spin around the block here soon.
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Congrats Austin, Like the white w/Black. Great find! More pics..specially if you put the AD wheels back on it.
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Wow!! Congrats sir.
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Neat car, you don't see these anymore....
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thanks Darrell and Nick and 70L34.
Ok small update. I was able to locate 2 more AD wheels, (that are dated the same as my original 3)so now i have a complete set. I blasted the front of them since they had a couple of rattle can layers on them, sprayed them black, then silver (thanks for the paint Jack).
I had the BFG's already so had a shop mount and balance them. I think it looks tons better!
Now to locate some early trim rings. ( think I may have a set of clean caps)
I was also able to land a sweet tach for it ;)( but I need a Stewart Warner controller for it (D-990-B) anyone?
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Lookin' good Austin...Joe
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I just saw this post on You tube. very similar to my White Z.
This one was sitting in Ohio, probably right under Bentley's nose... ::)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWP7l2AwcW8
They are still out there. Nice find
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I just saw this post on You tube. very similar to my White Z.
This one was sitting in Ohio, probably right under Bentley's nose... ::)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWP7l2AwcW8
They are still out there. Nice find
Nice find on the 69, gotta love Cali with those clean cars out there.
This one was actually right under MY nose. Sharpnack( now Pat Obrien) about 4 miles from me. In 69, that Z and mine would have been only a couple miles apart the way the crow flys. Family still local, can't imagine they pulled it out of a garage more the 10 or 15 minutes from here. New owner would have passed the buggy coming up rt 89 or 58. About a half hour south of here. I half remember seeing the listing while window shopping. Not crazy money. Honest about replacement block. Sort of read on after that. Tons of meat on the bone with this one if looking for a solid reso-project(I'm not), or into survivors. Sad to think car probably presented great until relatively recently, then did some blue tarp time. Ohio cars rot bottom up, road salt. This Z suffered trapped moisture, however not bad. Got back in the garage before going terminal. Another one saved!
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...gotta laugh, you swapped the wheels and tires ASAP! Same train of thought as me. I did mine in 89, when one would think Cragers were the factory correct wheel. Always loved the look of rally wheels on theses Camaros. Not so much large diameter wheels, just my opinion...
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Thanks for posting that link Austin. Any idea as to what that car sold for? If not what you all think would be a good price. I need to know so the next time I come across a car like this that's been stored for 25 years in a garage I'll have an idea as what to offer.
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Ok so Jano, How much were they asking?
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Looks like new owner wants to keep it hush. Good price to hang your hat
on survivor, clean it up, get it running. Too high for a nut and bolt resto, unless you got deep pockets, and expect no return. Like I said, not the car I'm looking for, but I believe under 40. Sort of my browsing range, and it came up. Just glossed over it. Honestly dont know the exact number. Vague enough?
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Only have some interest because it's local. My heart pitter patters more over your new toy. She's pretty.
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Congrats, Austin, on your find.
New journey and I wish you the best of luck with her.
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Thanks Jano and Everett.
...gotta laugh, you swapped the wheels and tires ASAP! Same train of thought as me. I did mine in 89, when one would think Cragers were the factory correct wheel. Always loved the look of rally wheels on theses Camaros. Not so much large diameter wheels, just my opinion...
Well the 17 inch polished Torq thrusts just did not do the car justice. I was lucky the car had 3 original AD 15" wheels with it. Also helped in verifying it as a 69Z. So while I was waiting for the title I had some time to kill. The car stayed in the trailer, during this time and I scoured the internet looking for 2 more matching wheels. I got very lucky and found 2 more AD wheels with the same date for a great deal. So once I blasted those and had the tires mounted on them, the day the car came out of the trailer, it was within the first hour the wheels and tires got swapped out for the rallys. I ran it without caps or rings for the first few months. Even bare rallys looked better to me than the 17 inch wheels.
Have to give a shout out to Bentley and Darrell for a couple of correct parts. With a couple more small original parts, and some SW gauges it is a fun car that can go anywhere. I just picked up a 990B SW modulator so I can wire up my tach.
I will have to post a updated pic or 2 .
So Jano the car ended up staying local to you, and you know the new owner?
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Assuming no, and no. Just going off his youtube reply.
Shame the kid didn't keep the car up. Obvious it was well taken care of for many years. However, the cam getting hammered through the block statement might shed a little light...
Should have tire kicked it and posted. Hindsight.
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Well its just a 69 RS Z Jano, everyone and their mother has 1 now a days, or is making one...
If it was a 68Z that might have got you off the couch.... ;D
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67... :)
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Jealous? You bet! I never get those kind of opportunities...boo hoo! Very, very nice score.
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Well I wasn't trying to rub your nose in it Bentley, I just thought it was funny this car was in your neck of the woods, (actually way closer to Jano).
I posted a message on the youtube page. I didn't see where the new owner had chimed in. Was he the one posted the video?
Also The guy with the crutches is the same guy who found the gold 69 Z/28 (or was on site when it was uncovered). I found his involvement a little strange. I thought he was verifying it at one point, but then he calls someone to verify the replacement block?
Is anyone familiar with his role in this video? Broker?
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No problem A. Too busy at the moment rubbing my nose in my own project. Nose is getting greasy as well.
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Nice score, Austin. What a great car. I have a friend with two early Van Nuys Zs, built late October '68. The cool thing is they are sequential serial numbers.
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Thanks Jon. I couldn't find the 67 4speed car I wanted so, I guess it wasn't meant to be (yet). :)
That is very cool about your friend with the 2 Z cars with sequential numbers, was that a package deal? or where they found separately?
I assume he is not on the CRG. I have been trying to collect data on early cars. It would be great to add his to the spread sheet.
Any pics of his cars handy?
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No, he is not on CRG. I will PM you his contact info.
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Since you brought up another white Z...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/273216919665?rmvSB=true (https://www.ebay.com/itm/273216919665?rmvSB=true)
Looks like original paint and the tag is legit but just seems heavy with the white on the underside for a NOR car..
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That didn't take long hitting ebay did it??
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Hmm, so purchase the car for 35k ish, ship it to New Mexico and then flip?
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Same car, trying to flip. :P
Guessing it was bought for a lot less than $35k.
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Possible, but I doubt it based on what Jano reported. (Under 40 vs under 30)
I am thinking the buyer realized there was a lot of work to be done to get it restored, or maybe even road worthy.
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Think as you wish.
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Asking price
My guess it went something like this" gonna take at least 75k to get this car right, and the original engine is gone, really devalues these. But I'm really into these Z's, and gonna do it right, will even give you and your aunt a ride when it's done😈"
I'm thinking lowballed, this area either your doing ok, or broke. Probably jumped on a little over 20.
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That would be surprising to me since they had that guru with the crutches climbing all around it. You would think he would have pointed them in the right direction?