CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: JohnKY on April 19, 2017, 06:13:15 PM

Title: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: JohnKY on April 19, 2017, 06:13:15 PM
A friend of mine is somewhat interested in this 68Z on ebay, and has asked for me for some input.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28-RS-4-Speed-Numbers-Matching-302-V8-Very-Rare-/332184613242?hash=item4d57bef17a:g:K2IAAOSwhQhYzFlh&vxp=mtr

I'm looking for opinions in the deck stampings on the engine.
There is, obviously, a discrepancy in the assembly date on the pad - Nov. 29 (11/29/67), and the casting date on the block - Dec.22 (L 22 7).
The pad numbers don't really look fake to me, but I'm not an expert on pad stampings.

The heads are dated Sept.15 (I 15 7)
Intake - Oct. 4 (10 4 67)
Trans - Dec. 5 (T 05)

Everything seems to line up with a 12B car, except the block casting.

Is it possible, or is there any noted instance of, a block date being mis-cast. so to speak? Doesn't seem like it would be hard to mistake an "L" for an "I".
Title: Re: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: 1968RSZ28 on April 19, 2017, 06:52:13 PM
124378N356369

Paul
Title: Re: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: 69Z28-RS on April 19, 2017, 09:25:53 PM
Is the L227 cast date a DEC or NOV casting???   Would line up well if it was for Nov 22...
Title: Re: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: 1968RSZ28 on April 19, 2017, 09:28:42 PM
Is the L227 cast date a DEC or NOV casting???

L is December.

Paul
Title: Re: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: bertfam on April 19, 2017, 09:51:52 PM
It's an "I" with a little casing "glop" (for want of a better word) next to it.

Here's another example (see below). This one even has a little "glop" next to it.

Ed
Title: Re: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: 1968RSZ28 on April 19, 2017, 10:08:17 PM
Here's the photo of the block casting date from the listing...

(http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq201/pinstr4car/March%2017/3-17%2068%20Camaro%20Z28%20RS%20Red/IMG_20170318_090035003.jpg)

Paul
Title: Re: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: JohnKY on April 19, 2017, 11:12:49 PM
Bertfam
I thought of that as a possibility, but the spacing between the digits seems to be equidistant.
 I guess it could be an"I" though.
Thanks for your opinion.
Title: Re: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: bertfam on April 19, 2017, 11:22:52 PM
If you click on the picture it'll take you to the hosting site. From there you can enlarge it using the "+" symbol at the top right.

I cropped it (see below) and you can clearly see the "leg" isn't attached to the "I". It's just a casting flaw, like the line at the bottom of the first "2".

Ed
Title: Re: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: bergy on April 20, 2017, 12:00:42 AM
Sure looks like L 22 7.  If you're not buying the "leg" on the L, then the "leg" on the first 2 is suspect.   As is the "leg" on the 7 (crooked).  The photo that 1968RSZ28 posted looks pretty clear.  Any cast date under a magnifying glass becomes subject to interpretation.
Title: Re: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: KurtS on April 20, 2017, 02:11:44 AM
I'm not convinced on the engine pad.....
Title: Re: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: bcmiller on April 20, 2017, 02:36:57 AM
Me either.  There is more than one thing that I am not thrilled about.
Title: Re: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: JohnKY on April 20, 2017, 03:17:24 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but during the VIN derivative stamping process, the engine and trans were stamped at the same time using the same stamp. Is this right?

Edit:
Just checked the tech article by JohnZ on Camaro assembly process, and yes, they were both stamped at the same time with the same stamp.
That does raise some questions with me about the VIN stamp.

And

Am I seeing things, or is there a "ghost" image of a "18" directly to the left of the VIN stamp? On a slightly downward angle.
Title: Re: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: bergy on April 20, 2017, 09:23:47 AM
Most of you know this, but remember that these blocks were cast in molds made out of a mixture of (primarily) sand, southern & western bentonite (clay), and water (to activated the clay as a binder).  The iron was poured into the mold at about 2,650 degrees.    It's not surprising to see some mold wall movement and to have small details like date stamps get distorted a little.
Title: Re: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: JKZ27 on April 20, 2017, 10:32:50 AM
I know this has nothing to do with the engine stamps but the wheel shown is a K19. Paper in the picture says K18. On the car they all appear to be the later narrow slot wheels(K19).
Title: Re: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: cook_dw on April 20, 2017, 11:37:48 AM
(http://www.fi-magazine.com/dm_images/channels/Red-Flag.gif)
Title: Re: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: maroman on April 20, 2017, 11:52:55 AM
Read the terms of sale like a lawyer. It says you have to inspect the car before you bid not after you win. Ditto on the red flag!
Title: Re: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: jdv69z on April 20, 2017, 01:17:49 PM
I know this has nothing to do with the engine stamps but the wheel shown is a K19. Paper in the picture says K18. On the car they all appear to be the later narrow slot wheels(K19).

If the wheels are the original ones, I think they incorrectly restored from what I see?
Title: Re: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: KurtS on April 21, 2017, 12:59:34 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but during the VIN derivative stamping process, the engine and trans were stamped at the same time using the same stamp. Is this right?
No, not always.
Title: Re: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: JohnKY on April 21, 2017, 01:20:36 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but during the VIN derivative stamping process, the engine and trans were stamped at the same time using the same stamp. Is this right?
No, not always.

Would two separate gang dies be used, at times? For instance, someone at the front of the engine to stamp the block, and someone at the back to stamp the trans.? If so, did they have a separate source of individual dies for changing the VIN numbers?

The reason I ask is that I'm seeing a discrepancy between one of the digits - block to trans.
Title: Re: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: KurtS on April 21, 2017, 04:17:49 AM
Yes, something in the process changed and they sometimes used two stamps.
Title: Re: 68Z28 #'s
Post by: JohnKY on April 21, 2017, 12:09:24 PM
So it is possible that the font on the block could be different than the font on the trans.?