CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: skoshkarli on December 24, 2016, 08:26:32 AM
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Hello Kurt,
I recently purchased 124378N427708. Would love to get any possible information out there about it. Can you please let me know how/what i need to do or who to contact. I really appreciate this btw!!!!!
Thank you,
Sarkhan
sarkhan.koshkarli@yahoo.com
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Sarkhan, I moved your thread to General discussion. Threads looking for information about their cars are not allowed in the orphans section.
But good news! Your car was in an ad from Joe Holland Chevrolet, South Charleston, WV on 6/8/68 (see attached)! It's described as an SS with a Muncie M20 transmission (the "4 speed trans" mentioned in the ad), and red with black vinyl roof.
Not "factory" documentation, but just as good since the car was brand new! Joe Holland Chevrolet is still around, so you should contact them to see if they have any paperwork on the car.
Ed
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Thank you Ed!!!
This is very exciting!!! I will definitely be contacting them to see if i can get additional info.
Thank you so much for posting this!
Merry Christmas!!!
Sarkhan
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Amazing!
So I am a bit stunned So, Dealers used the practice of using the last of the VIN as their stock number in advertising listings back in the day. (I have seen postings on yenko.net of old ads from California that lists the state plate number) I think there was some consumer protections about the bait & switch or false advertising smoke screens for cars that did not exist but brought in customers Bait & Switch tactics. So fast forward years and Bam, searchable ads CAN & Should be part of the documentation evidence available to owners to build a case for documenting content of cars today. So how are we able to search city news papers that must be scanned from originals and subsequently searched via OCR software's?
The ad's would be held as a HIGH confidence piece of the Car puzzle - Right. Dealers were NOT selling CLONES when new. Keeping in mind there could be typo errors.
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Keeping in mind there could be typo errors.
Yup, it looks it says 228 instead of Z28 in three of the ads above. :)
Paul
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Joe Holland Chevrolet appears to be Zone 40, dealer 193 but it would be best to get the NCRS report to verify.
Yes, it was common in the 60's to use the last 6 digits of the VIN as the stock number. Made it easy on the salesmen. And yes, typo's aren't uncommon so again, order the NCRS shipping report.
These ads came from Warren Leunig. He found a web site with TONS of old newspapers and it literally took him WEEKS to go through them all and save the ones that pertained to the Camaro!
Here's a larger picture of the ad.
Ed
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Do these ads help in the data points in the "DBASE" that CRG maintains?
Funny 228 (Z28)
Nice to see Dealers advertising (acknowledged L78) even though the factory did no advertise.
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Do these ads help in the data points in the "DBASE" that CRG maintains?
Yep. They sure do!
Ed
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In my mind the information from the newspaper ads is great, but not rock solid proof. As mentioned, there can be typos. Not true documentation in my mind (like a genuine dealer order form, original invoice, real POP, real broadcast copy, etc.) But - certainly better than nothing.
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Definitely a value add in my opinion. I requested an NCRS report as well but i have no doubts that it will confirm the same chevy dealer. I purchased the car from west virginia and the previous owner also stated that it was a local car to WV. Tried calling the dealer, but seems they are closed today. Will try them again next week, hopefully get something. :)
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Amazing!
So I am a bit stunned So, Dealers used the practice of using the last of the VIN as their stock number in advertising listings back in the day. (I have seen postings on yenko.net of old ads from California that lists the state plate number) I think there was some consumer protections about the bait & switch or false advertising smoke screens for cars that did not exist but brought in customers Bait & Switch tactics. So fast forward years and Bam, searchable ads CAN & Should be part of the documentation evidence available to owners to build a case for documenting content of cars today. So how are we able to search city news papers that must be scanned from originals and subsequently searched via OCR software's?
The ad's would be held as a HIGH confidence piece of the Car puzzle - Right. Dealers were NOT selling CLONES when new. Keeping in mind there could be typo errors.
'
I suspect using 'seq nos' as the dealer numbers may have been dependent on the area of the country (or the state?).. I don't remember seeing such numbers in ads in my areas of the country, in fact taking in one of the dealer ads usually amounted to a long search to find the 'car advertised'... so I think 'bait n switch' did occur, and maybe that's the reason the numbers appeared in some papers...
PS. I agree having a newspaper ad is NOT the same as having factory paperwork, but when one can have their 'factory paperwork' manufactured to order these days, maybe the newspaper ad is even better.. :)
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I'm the third generation in my family to be in the new-car business (for the same dealership and I campaign the dealership's last NHRA Stocker) and can tell you with both honesty and certainty that we never used the bait-n-switch tactic. We would order a base model car with zero options and advertise that specific car at dealer cost to attract buyers. Perfectly legal and nothing underhanded. That advertisement clearly listed what the car was and also listed the VIN and the amount of cars available at that price. Absolutely nothing deceptive and when a customer inquired about that car in the ad, they were directed to it as normally, it was on the showroom floor with the ad affixed to it. More often than not, it took some time to sell because of the lack of optional equipment. When it was sold, we'd pull the ad, and replace the car with another ordered with zero options. Lawfully, a car couldn't be advertised unless it was in stock and readily available for public consumption. As for Stock numbers, we tried several methods of internally identifying the inventory, ultimately using the last eight digits of the VIN as the year indicator was included. Prior to 1980, we used a system with the year and what number chronologically that specific car hit the lot.
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That's great info Dave. Thanks!
I would imagine different dealers had different ways of handling stock numbers, but just about all the ads Warren found, used the last 6 digits of the VIN. In the ad above, I'm assuming the "draw" car was the 6 cylinder Powerglide Coupe, but all the other cars are high performance models. An L30, one SS-350, an SS-L35. three SS L34's, an SS-L78 and three Z-28's!
What's the name of your dealership? Was it A.D. Anderson?
Ed
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Yes Ed.
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Cool! I know Jerry (MacNeish) got several cars from them and it was known as a high performance dealership. Do you have any 1960's pictures of the dealership you could scan in?
Ed
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It took me a while to make the connection.
It's great to have you here posting in the forum Dave!
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My family and I have been with what used to be the Oldsmobile division of Anderson for a looooong time! Losing Olds brought a tear to my eye as it was a big part of our lives for so many years. I have some real neat Oldsmobile-related stuff if anyone is interested.
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And thanks for the "Welcome to the site" and the kind words. I've been dabbling with these old cars since I was but a wee lad (really)! I must say that I have had a lot of fun (still do) and met some awesome people over the years through collecting and racing.
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Hi Ed,
I tried reaching out to the dealership, but unfortunately looks like they don't have any info that far back. :(
I was wondering if you had the original copy of the ad? If so, would it be possible for me to get a certified copy of the ad?
Thank you,
Sarkhan
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I was wondering if you had the original copy of the ad? If so, would it be possible for me to get a certified copy of the ad?
No, I only have the scanned-in copy. None of the ads Warren lifted were originals. They were all scanned in and added to the web site I referenced above.
However, the newspaper the ad came from was the Charleston Gazette (page 19) and the date was Saturday, June 8th, 1968 so you might be able to contact the paper itself (IF they're still around) and have them send you a certified copy of that page.
Ed
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The city library had newspapers on microfilm here in Tucson. Unfortunately the dealer where my cars were sold didn't use the partial vin in their ads....Joe
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Most of the ads with vins I found were in CA. It was a law starting for the 69 model year I believe in that state.
I did find ads with vins listed for some other dealers not in CA but not many. Looks like you lucked out!
Dave, got anything interesting on the 91-93 Cutlass Supreme with the Getrag 284 5spd? Those are quite rare!
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Thanks Ed!!!
I'll try to contact the newspaper.
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Sarkhan, I DO have a full size scan of that page (too big to post) so email me and I'll send it to you.
My contact info is in my signature below.
Ed