CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: jimbo67rag on November 19, 2016, 12:08:03 AM

Title: Block stamp
Post by: jimbo67rag on November 19, 2016, 12:08:03 AM
I have been able( thanks to this site) to determine that my block stamp decodes to (3956618) 68-79 302 4 bolt, 327, 350 4 bolt. Can I determine further just which of these three it is from this stamp? If not what is my next step to finding out the true cid of this engine please. And thank you.
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: RAfbody on November 19, 2016, 01:00:22 AM
According to Colvin's Chevrolet by the Numbers book, this block was only used from approximately January 1969 through April 1969 in both 2 and 4 bolt main configurations. The 4 bolt blocks were known to have been used in 350 and 302 engines. Look at the crank flywheel flange to determine what the crank is. Also look at the stamp pad in front of the passenger head for the stamped assembly date and code. Post any information you find there.
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: jimbo67rag on November 19, 2016, 01:53:10 AM
Thanks RAFbody. The stamp in front of the pass side head is not very prominent maybe from a deck job. But I ca make out 191037134   The second 1 could be an I and the 3's could be 8's. On the same face is a K05. The K is for sure the 05 is a guesstimate. Thanks.
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: jimbo67rag on November 19, 2016, 01:55:00 AM
Sorry what am I looking for at the crank flywheel flange?
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: bertfam on November 19, 2016, 02:04:33 AM
Can you post a high res picture of the stamp?

Ed
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: jimbo67rag on November 19, 2016, 02:05:35 AM
I can try Bert.
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: z28z11 on November 19, 2016, 02:17:45 AM
Sorry what am I looking for at the crank flywheel flange?

You can tell from the shape of the flange what build configuration the engine was, either 327, 350 or 302. Chevrolet by the Numbers has an excellent crank identification section by flange shape -

Regards,
Steve
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: jimbo67rag on November 19, 2016, 02:31:44 AM
Thanks Steve. I guess I would either have towing this book or maybe it is online?
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: jimbo67rag on November 19, 2016, 02:32:57 AM
Thanks Steve. I guess I would have to try and find this book or maybe it is online?
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: jimbo67rag on November 19, 2016, 02:38:07 AM
I will have to find this book at a book store Steve. Access to Chevrolet by the numbers is not available on line.
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: jimbo67rag on November 19, 2016, 02:43:30 AM
I am not computer savy enough to post a pic on here Bert. The stamp on the block in front of the pass side head reads.   1910?71?4.  It looks like 1910371?4. That is about the best I can do.
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: RAfbody on November 19, 2016, 03:40:06 AM
Send the picture to me in an email if you want and I will try to help.
rafbody@aol.com
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: jimbo67rag on November 19, 2016, 03:50:44 AM
This is the best photo I could send ! Help
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: jimbo67rag on November 19, 2016, 04:04:31 AM
Anyone have any idea what this block is?
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: 69Z28-RS on November 19, 2016, 04:10:18 AM
That must be from the St Therese (Canada) assembly plant - a passenger car engine...  either a 327 or 350 ci assembled also in Canada (St Catherine's engine plant).   The 'Kxxxxxyy' is an engine assembled in the St Catherine's engine plant...

ie. VIN of  1 9 1 037134    a 1969 model year passenger car; St Catherine's engine assembly; date/appcode undecipherable...

1969 VIN Assembly Plants
Letter Code   Assembly Plant   Body Type
A   Atlanta, Georgia   Chevelle
B   Baltimore, Maryland   Chevelle **
C   Southgate, California   Pass
D   Doraville, Georgia   Pass
F   Flint, Michigan   Pass
G   Framingham, Massachusetts   Chevelle
J   Janesville, Wisconsin   Pass
K   Kansas City, Missouri   Chevelle **
L   Los Angeles, California   Pass, Camaro
N   Norwood, Ohio   Camaro
R   Arlington, Texas   Pass
S   St. Louis, Missouri   Pass, Corvette
T   Tarrytown, New York   Pass
U   Lordstown, Ohio   Pass
W   Willow Run, Michigan   Chevy II
Y   Wilmington, Delaware   Pass
Z   Fremont, California   Chevelle **
0   Oshawa, Canada   Pass, Chevelle
1   St. Therese, Canada   Pass


Code   Engine Plant      Code   Engine Plant
F   Flint (Motor)             S   Saginaw Service
H   Hydramatic             T   Tonawanda
K   St. Catherines, Ontario      V   Flint (Engine)
(McKinnon Industries Canada)
M   GM of Mexico
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: jimbo67rag on November 19, 2016, 04:24:12 AM
That is interesting that it may be from Canada. But why is it stamped 191 and not 1n1? Could it be the  9 was stamped instead of an N?
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: 69Z28-RS on November 19, 2016, 04:44:40 AM
The first '1' is for Chevrolet; the '9' is for the '1969 model year', the next '1' is for the St Therese assembly plant (which assembled full size passenger cars), the remainder of the number is the assembly sequence number.. 37,xxx car built that year at that plant.

I'm sorry:  That 'N' was MY typo..  going to try to correct it now.. (now corrected it in my previous post)
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: jimbo67rag on November 19, 2016, 04:49:01 AM
Maybe the head stamp numbers will tell me 327 or 350?
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: jimbo67rag on November 19, 2016, 05:06:17 AM
69 z28 rs you have been a big help tonight. Thanks for every thing everyone. Now I have to figure out how to determine if this is a 327 or a 350. Would the stamps on the heads tell me this?
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: jimbo67rag on November 19, 2016, 05:09:33 AM
Thanks again Gary. Where do you live. It says 4 am in our correspondance
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: KurtS on November 19, 2016, 05:12:39 AM
Minor detail - those aren't stamps on the heads, those are casting numbers. Yes, they can tell us more.
If you want to figure out 327 or 350, just pull a plug, turn over the engine, and measure the stroke with a stick or whatever. 3.25 vs 3.5 inches.
Or look at the shape of the end of the crank.
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: 69Z28-RS on November 19, 2016, 05:15:38 AM
Your stamping intrigued me, so I did some digging, and as a result I learned a bit more about 'Canadian production'...  :)

I suspect the head casting numbers (and dates) should help you narrow in on the engine; missing the application code stamping prevents easy decoding, so you'll have to get as much as you can and then depend on what Chevy built into it's full size passenger cars for 1969; I suspect the Canadian production options mirrors US options.  I *think* both 327 and 350 ci engines were offered in 1969 passenger cars (Biscayne, Impala, etc) but I also think if it's a 4 bolt main block, then it would most likely be a 350 ci engine.   Both engines have a 4" bore in stock form.  The 327 has a 3.25" stroke while the 350 ci has a 3.48" stroke.   Is your engine together with heads/intake/pan in place?  Providing some more information on the other parts of your engine might help (assuming the engine is configured as it was from the factory)...

PS.  I'm in north Alabama (central time zone), and I notice it's 11:17 pm right now, but my post was labeled 12:17, so I'm messed up on the DST...  :)
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: bcmiller on November 19, 2016, 05:25:06 AM
Drop the oil pan to check the number on the crankshaft. That's the fastest way to determine for sure what you have now. Since the block has been decked, rebuilt (and the original application code stamp is mostly gone), no way to determine what it was originally.  And no way to say FOR SURE if the heads and crank were originally with that block.  If the head casting dates are close to the casting date of the block you could assume they are original, but can't be 100 percent sure.

The reason I said what I did is that I know there are over a dozen 350 engines out there that I personally know have 400 crankshafts in them. So they are now 383s. :)
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: jimbo67rag on November 19, 2016, 03:38:57 PM
Thank you very much for everyone's help in identifying my block. The knowledge on this site is amazing. 😊
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: bertfam on November 19, 2016, 03:45:18 PM
Not that it makes much difference, but 1 is Oshawa, Canada and 2 is St Therese. This was a change from the 1966 designation. Alan (and most of the online sites) has them incorrect (the 65-69 CBTN is incorrect, but the 70-75 is correct).

Oshawa built full size cars and Chevelles, so your block originated in one of those, but I'll have to see what Warren says about the serial number. I didn't think any cars started with 0.

Ed
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: jimbo67rag on November 19, 2016, 04:54:18 PM
So this is a 69 block made and assembled in Oshawa and not St Theresa Quebec? Please post any info on here that you get from Warren, Ed. I guess my mystery is not completely solved as of yet. Thanks again for the education on small,block id's everyone. Eagerly awaiting any more tidbits.  Jim.
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: jimbo67rag on November 19, 2016, 05:06:35 PM
I am still a bit confused here.  191037134 sets up as this?
   1= Oshawa plant
   9= 1969
   1= ? I am unclear on this digits meaning                                                                             
   037134= block serial number, although we are not sure as to why it begins with an 0?

I hope I am following you Ed, and Warren.  Am I close here? Thanks.                                                                             
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: bertfam on November 19, 2016, 08:41:13 PM
Quote
I am still a bit confused here.  191037134 sets up as this?
   1= Oshawa plant
   9= 1969
   1= ? I am unclear on this digits meaning                                                                             
   037134= block serial number, although we are not sure as to why it begins with an 0?

1 is Chevrolet Motor Division (2 would be Pontiac, 3 is Oldsmobile, 4 is Buick, etc...)
9 is the model year of the car. In this case, 1969.
1 Is the plant the car was assembled at. In this case it's Oshawa, Ontario, Canada and they built full size cars and Chevelles. (They may have also built trucks, but I'm not sure)
037134 is the sequence of the car. I don't know of any car models that started with a leading zero, so that's why I've asked Warren to chime in. For 1969, full size cars started at 100001 and Chevelles started at 300001 so it's a bit of a mystery. However, if Oshawa DID build trucks, that may be why it has a leading zero (I don't know what trucks started at). It would also make more sense that the block is a 4 bolt main since most truck blocks came that way.

Warren is a member of the CRG, so I'm sure he'll be posting when he can.

Ed
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: jimbo67rag on November 19, 2016, 09:27:31 PM
Aha! That explains it then. Cheers.
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: rick 67 on November 20, 2016, 01:26:13 AM
  Oshawa had a truck and a car plant. Toured the car plant in 1972.
  Rick
 
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: 69Z28-RS on November 20, 2016, 10:51:12 PM
Not that it makes much difference, but 1 is Oshawa, Canada and 2 is St Therese. This was a change from the 1966 designation. Alan (and most of the online sites) has them incorrect (the 65-69 CBTN is incorrect, but the 70-75 is correct).

Oshawa built full size cars and Chevelles, so your block originated in one of those, but I'll have to see what Warren says about the serial number. I didn't think any cars started with 0.

Ed

Hi Ed,  Can you provide a reference for
So this is a 69 block made and assembled in Oshawa and not St Theresa Quebec? Please post any info on here that you get from Warren, Ed. I guess my mystery is not completely solved as of yet. Thanks again for the education on small,block id's everyone. Eagerly awaiting any more tidbits.  Jim.
an acccurate listing of GM's production plants by year?   The listing I provided was found via a Google; it showed Oshawa as '0', and St Therese as '1'...? 

PS>  Unless I also found an incorrect listing of engine plants, the 'engine block' originated at the St Catherine's engine plant.. then was provided to (either Oshawa or st Therese) for assembly into a car (or truck)... Correct??
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: bertfam on November 21, 2016, 12:26:08 AM
There was a change designation in 1967 for the Canadian plants. Up through 1966, Oshawa was 0 and they built full size cars, Novas and Chevelles. (St Therese wasn't yet in production.) Starting in 1967, they changed Oshawa from 0 to 1 and added St Therese as 2.

This information came from my September, 1968 P&A 25 (1969 Chevrolet Illustrations and Special Information manual) under the Assembly plant designation section.

Ed
Title: Re: Block stamp
Post by: jimbo67rag on November 21, 2016, 12:50:31 AM
You must have a lot of info at your fingertips for all,the advice you guys give on this site. I did some more digging and have discovered that you are right it is a 69 pass car block with 72 heads. I will pull the motor this winter to detail under the hood and paint and detail the motor. When I pull the oil pan off I am hoping to find it is a 4 bolt. Thanks again for all your time and info. I have always enjoyed this site for its friendly folks and their infinite knowledge. Over the years I have turned other Canadians,who are first gen owners, on to this site and they find it amazing as well.  :)