CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: Dave O. on November 17, 2016, 04:12:04 PM
-
Is there Muncie metal trim tag information for Camaro's and what do the numbers mean?
Thanks, Dave O.
-
Is there Muncie metal trim tag information for Camaro's and what do the numbers mean?
Dave, there was a tag attached to the transmission, but it was just the part number for the transmission. Here's an example (tag attached to the bottom left bolt of the cover)
Ed
-
I believe that P/N is also reflected in the AIM.
Mike
-
Close up of mine.
-
Dave, I just went back and re-read your question, and we may be reading it wrong. Are you asking if there's a physical tag attached to the transmission or are you asking if there's any information on the TRIM TAG showing proof that a Muncie transmission was originally installed in the car??
Ed
-
Is there Muncie metal trim tag information for Camaro's and what do the numbers mean?
Thanks, Dave O.
If you are talking about the numbers on the small metal tag attached to Muncies, then the number is the GM/Chevy PN for the transmission; there are different numbers for each transmission (M20, M21, M22), and probably for each year produced (although I'm not certain of that and haven't seen a complete list of those PNs)...
-
I looked into decoding these a while back, and it seemed the Muncie tag number was dependant on groups of diff ratios, as well as the Muncie type (M20,M21 and M22). Will have to dig out my notes on observations of original drivetrain cars and the AIM info.
-
Yes, that would have to be the case. Any difference between two Muncies, even if just one part, (like a speedo gear for a given ration) would require a unique part number.
-
Sorry guys I've been gone out of state helping my 86 year old dad with some issues. Thanks for your responses! Yes, I was talking about the stamped metal tag the you showed in the picture and what do they mean. Like trans type, car type, year, rear gear type, etc.
-
...Yes, I was talking about the stamped metal tag the you showed in the picture and what do they mean. (?) Like trans type, car type, year, rear gear type, etc. (?) A: Yes
The AIM lists what these tag numbers are and hints to their application. This is in M20/A1 of the AIM.
As I understand, the M20 & M21 have 2 numbers based on rear gear ratios that changed the speedometer gears with ratios of 3.55 and lower (higher numerically) using the one assigned to the Z28,L78. The L6-production v8 is a Saginaw M20 (1st number), next number is a Saginaw. Then, next 2 M20 Muncie, then 2 M21 (close ratio) and lastly M22.
So, the 376, 378, are Saginaws, 356 & 797 are M20 w/356 higher than 3.55 rear ratio (IE 3.31), 797 3.55 & lower. Then, 316 & 798 M21. Again, 316 higher ratio than 3.55, 798 3.55 & lower. Then last, M22.
The reason that these are assigned to different RPOs is based on these RPO default ratios. A L48 M20, I assume, with an optional rear ratio of 4.10 would get the 797 trans.
If this information I provided is wrong, then it will be corrected.
-
Shot of my X77's tag. I need to crawl under the '68 and get a shot of the M21's tag on it. Not the '68's original, but an original Norwood '68 trans by the VIN number (probably need to post the VIN in the Orphans section at the same time !)
Regards,
Steve
-
Steve, yes please post it in the Orphans section when you have time.
-
Yes there is different speedo gear's used. Get the tag# off your transmission. Also get the numbers that are stamped in to your main case. If should be on the right side for Camaro or on top or the drivers side depending what kind off car it came off. If it is a 68 up trans it will have a partial vin on it.
-
Most Muncies will have a partial VIN - if originally installed in a car at the assembly plant. This is true even in 1967 and earlier model years.
-
Thanks ko-lek-tor and Steve for the pictures and info. I just got a AIM book and the M20 A1 page looks a little different from yours. Is that's because of different issues and or change in information?
-
Dave, it all depends on which AIM you're looking at. 1967, 1968 and 1969 all used different part numbers. The picture James posted above is from the 1969 AIM.
Ed
-
Ok, thanks. Mine is for a 68!
-
Ok, thanks. Mine is for a 68!
In that case you have this (see below).
Ed
-
Do any of the retailers make or sell reproduction Muncie Tags as shown..
Looked some and don't see any, but mine is MIA as I suspect most are and I wouldn't mind getting a 3915085 version if they are being made or reproduced.
I just assumed since they remake radiator tags, rear end posi tags, and all kinds of repro decals and such - that little metal tags would also be available - or maybe the demand just isn't there?!
Thanks - Randy
-
Do any of the retailers make or sell reproduction Muncie Tags as shown..
Not that I know of. Your best bet is ebay. YOU JUST MISSED ONE! (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-68-CAMARO-Z28-CHEVELLE-L78-NOVA-LZ8-MUNCIE-M-21-M21-4-SPEED-TAG-3915085-/131952007032?hash=item1eb8f3d778%3Ag%3A2A4AAOSwnNBXWicM&vxp=mtr&nma=true&si=F%252BMIlZ5D52demOpbvK1%252BlxSjGc0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)
Ed
-
I've seen some for sale on eBay that are reproductions but the fonts are not 100%. That is only obvious if you compare it side by side to an original. I think for a show you'll be fine.
Mike
-
To answer the above question(s), yes, there are repros; good ones, too. The following link will get you to the retailer - their '68 tag is the wrong number, but they have all of the '69 part numbers.
https://www.thepartsplaceinc.com/
You just have to know where to look. I've done some business with these guys, pretty darn good reproductions in a lot of different categories. Just click on Camaro, the year, search for trans tags -
Regards,
Steve
-
Thanks Steve - I had looked there previously prior to posting but obviously didn't use the search option correctly, since when I went back after your reply, I found them easily the second go-around..
Too bad they don't have the proper number - is the one they show even at all legit for a '68 model?
Regardless, I can't see wasting money (and shipping up here = more $$'s and brokerage fees) for something that isn't even at all correct number-wise.. Too Bad!
I'll have to watch E-Bay as others have suggested..
Thanks again for your trouble - Randy
-
Randy, I thought Heartbeat was selling the repro's also but did not verify. Years ago they were still pretty easy to spot a repro but maybe they are better now.
From the Yenko website: "Lots of people contributed,but credit goes to Chuck Hanson for publishing this all in last months Chevelle World.Box #28 on the Buildsheet will reflect the 2 letter code as well."
Muncie ID Tags
1964 M20 3841435
1965 M20 3857577
1965 M20 3857578 Z16
1966 M20 3870357 L-34 L-35
1966 M20 3890534 L-78
1966 M21 3877459 ALL
1966 M22 3879993 L-78
1967 M20 3870357 L-34 L-35 L-79
1967 M21 3877459 ALL
1967 M22 3879993 L-78
1968 M20 3915079 L-34 L-36 L-78 L-79
1968 M21 3915085 L-34 L-36 L-78 L-79
1968 M22 3925626 L-78
1969 M20 3950301 L-48 L-35
1969 M20 3946767 L-34 L-78
1969 M21 3946798 ALL
1969 M22 3950318 L-78 COPO L72
1970 M20 3952659 WB
1970 M21 3968012 (disc.3-11-70)
1970 M21 3968011 WL
1970 M22 3978766 WO
1971 M20 3974484 WN
1971 M22 3978766 WO
1972 M20 3974484 WN
1972 M22 6271517 WJ
-
Our M21 metal ID tag from our 68 Z Randy prior to restoration.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/Transmission%20and%20Drive-train/100_4697_zpsf84tqe4x.jpg) (http://s192.photobucket.com/user/1-2-b-67L89/media/68%20Camaro%20Z28/Transmission%20and%20Drive-train/100_4697_zpsf84tqe4x.jpg.html)
-
Randy, I will check to see if I have an extra. If I do I will send you a PM.
Chick, that list was for Chevelles. Note their are no listings for Z28. The AIMs for each year are the best source for the data.
-
Bryon, Thanks for your looking.. Its certainly not a life threatening deal, but it would be something that would be nice to add and again I appreciate your effort...
Chick - the list you posted and the picture of yours shows the right one I need I guess from everything I've read now and seen - again you were so very fortunate in having such an original car right from the outset!
Randy
-
Post #23 is a pretty good list of trans assembly part number tags, but there is an error with the 1969 M-20 part numbers is 3946797 not 3946767 as listed...
I've seen the part number tags from the parts place, IMHO you will not be happy...
Hope this helps... Crash
-
Thanks Crash. I agree. The repro tags are not even close.