CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Z28Project on September 25, 2016, 09:30:41 PM
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I've known this guy for going on 30 years, and the whole time his 69 Z/28 has not moved an inch. He bought it in 1977 only to drag race it.
In 1986 he broke a drive shaft while racing and the car has been parked ever since. He did some good storage things by putting it up on jackstands,
backing off the rocker arm nuts so the valve were closed and the pressure off of the springs, and covering the carb.
I've talked to him over the years about selling it and he wouldn't. In 2012 I made another unsuccessful push to buy it. But I did take some pictures then.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/image1%2050.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/image1%2050.jpg.html)
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/image4%205.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/image4%205.jpg.html)
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/image3%208.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/image3%208.jpg.html)
Fast forward 4 years to 2016 and he asked me if I would like to take another look at the car. He had a minor stroke a year or so ago and I think he finally realized he was never going to do anything with it.
We got a bunch of the stuff off of the car so for the first time I could actually see the whole car!
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/image3%2010.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/image3%2010.jpg.html)
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/image6%202.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/image6%202.jpg.html)
Lots of things have been changed on the car in his quest to make it quicker. It has mono leaf rear springs, a Dana 60 rear end, a BW T10 trans, and the engine is not original. He also converted it to front DRUM brakes. :-\ It has been fitted with a fuel cell which required a small hole in the trunk floor, and unfortunately he cut part of the trans tunnel out for easy access.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/image1%2052.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/image1%2052.jpg.html)
But I finally have it bought and home! Almost no rust on the car! It has been mostly or completely repainted, and the wiper holes, radio antenna hole, front fender Camaro emblem holes have been filled. I believe it is a factory spoiler car, but during repaint they ran the stripes off the back of the trunk lid (a real pet peeve of mine). It does show evidence of having a front spoiler at one time.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/image2%2020.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/image2%2020.jpg.html)
Lots of work to do, but I'm excited about getting it running. I want to change the cam, get rid of the Dana 60 (5.86 gear :o), and put a 12 bolt with multi leaf springs in it, and convert back to front disc brakes. If I can fit a factory shifter to the T10 I guess I have no problem leaving that in for now. I'm glad he never put a roll cage in it. It's kind of a time capsule of speed parts back from the day. I'm not sure I even want to peel the stickers off of it right away.
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Cool car. Keep us update on it.
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Congratulations! What did it run time wise?
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Thanks! I never thought to ask about the times, but I will. I'd like to have some time slips if he kept them.
He had all of the engine blueprint papers and cam card, so he may have time slips.
John
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Trim tag:
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/image2%2022.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/image2%2022.jpg.html)
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Awesome! Good for you!
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Great find, nice car love the dated speed parts would make a great day 2 candidate, good luck, Darrell
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Early x code car
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I like it!! Congrats!
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Doesn't get much better than an X33 '72 B' car.. unless it was also 720, but I think this car was too early for the bright houndstooth.. :)
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Congrats on the purchase!
Did he save any of the original parts (like the motor) that he removed?
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Or the axle....
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Very cool, congrats!
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Thanks guys! I'm excited to start working on it.
I have a potential lead on who bought the engine many years ago, but I doubt it will turn into anything after this much time.
Transmission, rear axle, seats, front brakes, are all long gone. After the trans tunnel is repaired I want to do the interior correctly which was black comfortweave seats. I think the area where all of the toggle switches are will be covered with the Camaro trim plate and assist handle (I think that's what it's called). The headliner needs replaced as it looks like it has mildew spots all over it.
Although not correct for this car I think I will have to add the ZL2 hood, as well as the tach and console gauges, which did not come on the car. Maybe I'll stay period correct and do the 6/7 tach instead of the 6/8.
I'll probably being spending a lot at HBC!
John
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My son shot a time lapse video of what it took to get the car out of the building and loaded up.
https://youtu.be/ZWiAIoGO2zc
John
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I'm wondering if you fellas could have ever gotten that car out without the seller's wife 'coordinating' your actions with her 'baton'??? :) .. pretty funny watching he pop in and out every few frames... :)
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My son shot a time lapse video of what it took to get the car out of the building and loaded up.
https://youtu.be/ZWiAIoGO2zc
John
Very nice record of the retrieval. That will really help in documenting this car's history. Entertaining as well! Just one note of a safety concern. I never get behind a winched car. A guy close to me got run over when the car came lose while winching onto a rollback. Great to have you on board. Would like to talk you into leaving the car "as is" ,except for adding seats and de- tuning the engine for street cruising.
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I'm wondering if you fellas could have ever gotten that car out without the seller's wife 'coordinating' your actions with her 'baton'??? :) .. pretty funny watching he pop in and out every few frames... :)
Yeah, she's a real hoot. You never have to worry about starting a conversation with her around! She's one of those who can just walk up to anyone and just start talking. ;D Very nice folks.
John
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My son shot a time lapse video of what it took to get the car out of the building and loaded up.
https://youtu.be/ZWiAIoGO2zc
John
Very nice record of the retrieval. That will really help in documenting this car's history. Entertaining as well! Just one note of a safety concern. I never get behind a winched car. A guy close to me got run over when the car came lose while winching onto a rollback. Great to have you on board. Would like to talk you into leaving the car "as is" ,except for adding seats and de- tuning the engine for street cruising.
Thanks, I'll keep the winch tip in mind when we get it down off the trailer.
I'm open to suggestions on how to present the car. I kinda like the old decals and stuff, I don't care for the old pro stock looking hood, not sure about the Weld wheels and Moroso skinnies on the front. It did come with a pair of new in the box matching Weld wheels for the back, but they are the odd Dana bolt pattern (5X4.5). I kind of had plans to go with the ARE Torque Thrust Originals on Radial T/A's.
I bought a DZ 302 and am gathering parts for it too. The engine in the car is the old "301" with a 327 block and 283 crank. It's all good parts and 12.0:1 compression (I like that)! But it does have a big solid roller cam that I'm think about changing before I even try to start the engine.
John
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Hey don't rule out finding that original 302, start tracking it down, other guys have had luck finding their original blocks. Check the orphan section on here you may find the trans at point as well.
I vote Flat hood (or some vintage stinger hood), and ditch the rear spoiler. With some vintage torque thrusts, with mickey thompson tires or Hoosier, or some vintage 70's or early eighties race looking tires. (not a big fan of BFG). Keep the decals!
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I just pulled a valve cover. Everything looks nice and clean and STOUT.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/9-26-16%203.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/9-26-16%203.jpg.html)
I've seen this type of header on small blocks before, but never really knew the purpose. They have an adapter plate and a different bolt pattern.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/9-26-16%202.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/9-26-16%202.jpg.html)
Is that to get a larger tube diameter, or does it have to do with a modified exhaust port shape? I'd like to put regular style headers on it.
Thanks, John
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Cool find.
The header adapters are for installing 1 7/8" tube headers on a sbc. Old school stuff not seldom seen anymore.
Personally if it were me, I'd leave the headers as is, leave the dana, install the welds on the rear, leave the engine as is with maybe one change (add a tunnel ram) and I'd run without the hood at all. Drive the car as is and have some fun with it for a while before you even think about detuning and/or semi restoring. Cars like that with vintage speed parts from it's racing days, and with patina to go with it get a ton of attention nowadays. It's a good chunk of the cars history. I wouldn't hesitate to buzz that over to a local cruise as is. Too many restored ones running around anyway, refreshing to see one dragged out of the barn "as raced" ;)
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Some interesting thoughts, thanks!
A tunnel ram would be kinda neat and would go with the theme.
I don't know about the 5.86 gear though. Maybe take off in 3rd and shift to 4th by 35 mph. :)
John
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I know you said the car went through a repaint, but maybe the stripes were painted like that for a reason. Many of these earlier cars didn't come with spoilers, but guys added them after the fact. Which means the stripes would run over the trunk lid lip. That's they way my car was. I'm with you on the pet peeve, but at the same time it technically can be considered correct for a non-spoiler car. Just my two cents.
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Yes, there are many instances where dealers installed spoilers, which of course would then show stripes on the rear lip of the decklid. Since this car has the 68 spoiler, which would be correct for this early build, it's a likely possibility. Or of course during the repaint, it's possible the repaint just wasn't done correctly. But the 68 spoiler tells me it's been on there a long time. Most conversions done later generally you find a 69 spoiler. Some investigative work could determine either way, when it comes time to strip and paint. I'd also be looking at the torsion rods underneath, from what I'm told spoiler cars had one rod larger than the other. That would at least answer whether it was installed on the assembly line or not, but it won't tell you if the dealer did it. I don't believe all the assembly line spoiler cars always had the D80 code on the tag when it comes to the early cars so that's a wash.
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Some interesting thoughts, thanks!
A tunnel ram would be kinda neat and would go with the theme.
I don't know about the 5.86 gear though. Maybe take off in 3rd and shift to 4th by 35 mph. :)
John
Well I figured since the hood has a hole in it already, why not go the tunnel ram route, but since it's not painted I'd likely just run without a hood, it works with the theme too. Fair weather car anyway right? Yeah the 5.86 may be a bit steep if you stray far from the house. I ran 4.88's on the street, and have friends that ran 5.13's. Highway trips were fun, lol. You could tame the gear down a bit, I'd just hate to lose some of the joy of high rpm fun, and judging from the looks of it that motor may like rpm, so I'd be hesitant to pull too much out. I'd definitely leave the dana though until a later date when you decide to restore it, or....toss in a TKO600 to tame the cruise rpm a bit, cheaper to swap the 5.86 for something that suites you though. Possibilities are endless.
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This old Hurst Vertigate shifter was all business!
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/9-16-2016%20Hurst%20Shifter.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/9-16-2016%20Hurst%20Shifter.jpg.html)
Old Hurst Line-Lock:
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/9-27-16%20line%20lock.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/9-27-16%20line%20lock.jpg.html)
Early Weld logo:
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/9-26-2016%20weld.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/9-26-2016%20weld.jpg.html)
Here's a good one. How do you route the mechanical tach cable? Just bore a hole thru the dash! :D
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/9-27-16%20mech%20tach.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/9-27-16%20mech%20tach.jpg.html)
John
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How about the stewart warner gauge in the dash with the switches?
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Water temp
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/image1%2057.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/image1%2057.jpg.html)
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(The one up above that ) :)
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Would be way tempting just to go racing with it...Fluid change and a carb rebuild. Does he have any track shots? Where did he run out of? Sounds like a 1/8th mile track with that steep of gear.
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1/4 mile is probably doable with that 5.86 depending on where he liked to run that engine and the tire height he used.
Friend of mine runs his X33 Z with 5.38's, a 28" tire, he runs a nash 5 speed with a 3.19 first gear and 1:1 fifth. He leaves at 7,000, shifts at 8,000 and runs through the traps at 8100, usually 128mph or so and goes 10.60's, and a 1.39 60 foot.
A 5.86 gear would only bump the finish line rpm about 6-700 rpm. Squeeze a 29" tire in there and knock it down 2-300 rpm. So it's doable if it's making power up there, but you need good parts inside if you want reliable.
PS. I agree janobyte, I'd have some fun with it as is, and track passes wouldn't be out of the question. ;D
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(The one up above that ) :)
Ahh, the one where the heater controls go is an ammeter.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/ammeter.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/ammeter.jpg.html)
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Would be way tempting just to go racing with it...Fluid change and a carb rebuild. Does he have any track shots? Where did he run out of? Sounds like a 1/8th mile track with that steep of gear.
I'll get with him and ask about ET's and if he has any pictures from back in the day.
He ran at Muncie Dragway in Indiana.
John
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1/4 mile is probably doable with that 5.86 depending on where he liked to run that engine and the tire height he used.
Friend of mine runs his X33 Z with 5.38's, a 28" tire, he runs a nash 5 speed with a 3.19 first gear and 1:1 fifth. He leaves at 7,000, shifts at 8,000 and runs through the traps at 8100, usually 128mph or so and goes 10.60's, and a 1.39 60 foot.
A 5.86 gear would only bump the finish line rpm about 6-700 rpm. Squeeze a 29" tire in there and knock it down 2-300 rpm. So it's doable if it's making power up there, but you need good parts inside if you want reliable.
PS. I agree janobyte, I'd have some fun with it as is, and track passes wouldn't be out of the question. ;D
I think you are correct. I believe he ran 1/4 mile with it. He claims he ran it to around 10,000 rpm. :o The engine does have aluminum rods. I've always heard they are not good for continued street use, but I have no experience with AL rods personally.
John
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Primed the oiling today and set the valve lash. The carb is clean as a pin inside, so a new float bowl gasket and I think I'm ready to add some fuel!
John
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Primed the oiling today and set the valve lash. The carb is clean as a pin inside, so a new float bowl gasket and I think I'm ready to add some fuel!
Fire it up outside with a couple of fully charged fire extinguishers nearby, just in case. ;)
Paul
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Exactly what I was planning!! Thanks.
John
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Make a video. Cool find and congrats.
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Congrats to a really great find of an unusual time capsule! 8)
If it was up to me I should:
1. Collect all missing parts, it there are any...?
2. Clean it up thoroughly, both inside and outside.
3. Change rear tires to period correct drag ones.
4. Get it running and driving.
5. Keep the hood but paint it car color or semi gloss black.
6. Us as is! ;D
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I agree with most of the previous post.
Paint hood flat black, check brakes, hoses, etc. to make sure it is safe, then make some passes! :)
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Here's the video of the first start after 30 years!
https://youtu.be/EIeCx16RtQg
In all honesty, after priming the oil system I put the distributor back in a tooth off, so the timing is retarded in this video. It came to life pretty quick and blew all of the little rust pieces out from the header tubes. The poor guy at the back of the car got the brunt of that! :)
A few good backfires thru the carb from the wacky timing, but it did run. I'll post another video with the timing right.
John
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great job. Surprised you kept it o the trailer....
I am guessing you did that to take it to the exhaust shop next?
:)
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Thanks. Yeah I wish. The Dana 60 must be a project he was working on after he put it up on jackstands, but he never finished.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/Dana%2060%201crop.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/Dana%2060%201crop.jpg.html)
The whole thing will just flop back and forth, pivoting on the gold headed bolt.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/Dana%2060%20crop3.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/Dana%2060%20crop3.jpg.html)
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/10-6-16%20off%20trailer%2011.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/10-6-16%20off%20trailer%2011.jpg.html)
I don't recognize what kind of setup it was supposed to eventually be. I'm just going to remove it all and start fresh I think.
John
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Good idea. I didn't know a mono leaf set up would be a racing tactic. Seems like not enough rear end control for a car like this. I have seen guys go up in leaf springs, or traction bars. I think a 12 bolt install would be the way to go. Did he save the rear that came out?
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I can remember reading years ago in some magazine that a monoleaf was the way to go for drag racing. He probably read the same article. :) I don't recall what the reasoning was.
No he didn't save the original. I'm shopping for one now.
John
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Well I am sure there enough ex-racers on here to chime in on the mono leaf idea...
Most of what i did was with a 4 link. (66 chevelle) My Mustang has leaf springs, but it is far from a 1/4 mile car. Seems like the only cars I have seen with mono leaf Mustang or camaro, have been 6 cylinder cars.
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Me too. It's going to get switched to a 4-leaf, 12-bolt, 3.73 posi real soon!
John
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Here's a video with the distributor in right. :)
https://youtu.be/uP4Ta-mVv2I
Once it gets a little heat in it, she purrs like a kitten at around 1400 rpm! ;D
John
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A monoleaf spring is a superior spring design. As springs go, multileafs are a bandaid.
But the spring also locates the axle on Camaros, so it gets more complicated, hence the multileafs.
I've never seen that spring mounting design. Looks interesting, but maybe not for the street. I'd do a 12-bolt - that Dana should be worth something to someone...
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The floater needs somthing. Usually ladder bars to locate, hold the rear in place. The spring holds it up. Also very unsafe to have a fuel cell under the car
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Cool car. Great find. I vote for leaving decals, adding the ZL2 hood and torque thrusts and enjoying this time capsule as is. Cruise around and have fun with it for awhile until you decide which way to go with it.
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Hey WTg, it sounds like it runs pretty smooth. I think popping in a much and a 12 bolt, ought to get you road worthy pretty quick. I do agree DS1 I would probably want to go with a different fuel cell, or back to a stock tank.
(BTW love the shop with the lifts. Can't wait till I get to that point)
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Thanks for the feedback guys!
I am going to stay with the theme. As long as the engine is somewhat streetable I might as well enjoy it for a while. It's 12:1 compression but we do have a Sunoco in town with a 110 leaded pump!
Maybe ladder bars are what was needed to pull the rearend together. Just a very odd setup to me.
I have parts ordered. I'm going with a Muncie, 3.73 12-bolt, 4-leaf springs, new original style gas tank, etc.
I'm going to leave the stickers on and probably add the same style of Welds to the back, with some beefy tires. A tunnel ram with a couple of 600 Holleys may find their way on here too!
John
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Just found this in the bottom of a box of stuff that came with the car.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/Bunker%20Hill%201974.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/Bunker%20Hill%201974.jpg.html)
I've also made contact with a guy that knows the car pretty well from the past. He told me who bought it new, and has a lot of details about the car. I'm going to meet with him whenever he's available for a sit down. He said the original engine was removed in 1971. It sounds like it's been a race car most of its life. That probably explains the very good condition of the floor pans, sheet metal, etc.
John
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Well keep making connections, you never know what guys may have held onto what parts, or docs, etc...
Some vintage drag strip pics would be cool
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If you are going to change rears and pit a 12 bolt in, just bolt the rear in like the factory did. I ran ladder bar and floaters on the 68 camaro I had. You can leave the springs in. Will be a nice softer ride than multi leaf springs. I raced and teched cars fir NHRA and IHRA. My guess is if there are no other mounts in the back, someone started to upgrade and did not finish the job. The 67 I just bought was in the process of and upgrade in the late 70's and never got finished.
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I had a 69Z back in the 90's that was an old bracket car out of PA. It was setup with a Dana 60 and used SureGrip mono leaf springs w/ track bars. That diff would plant the rear around 10 feet into a hard street launch and worked really well with a 500hp small block.
Love the car and like that you are sticking with the Day II theme. Looks like you guys are having fun with it.
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Thanks, that sounds similar to this setup. I don't understand it enough to try and make it work, so I'm going with a 12 bolt with 3.73 gears. I don't think I would have liked to 5.86's anyway.
Parts are piling up! I'm starting with a new flywheel and working my way back.
John
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Transformation is underway!
New Flywheel, clutch, bellhousing, Muncie, and Hookers are in. Rearend will take around 3 weeks to get, so I've been straightening out the dash wiring. LOTS of cuts to disable warning lights, alternator, etc. I want all of that stuff working like intended.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/New%20Muncie-Clutch-Headers.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/New%20Muncie-Clutch-Headers.jpg.html)
John
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Very cool. I love seeing these "time capsule" finds. Good luck with the build.
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I've made good progress on the car. It now has a drivetrain back in it. Along with the new flywheel, clutch, PP, bellhousing, I've added an M20 Muncie, new driveshaft, and a new 12-bolt posi rearend with 3.73 gears. Nothing original or correct code on the Muncie or 12-bolt, just new fresh stuff to get it going. New 4-leaf rear springs, gas tank, fuel line, etc.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/008_1.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/008_1.jpg.html)
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/016_2.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/016_2.jpg.html)
It's nice to get it to the stage of being a complete car! I put on some wheels/tires from a 91 Z28 I have and took it out for drive. The car drives solid but it surges at any kind of cruising speed. As long as you are into the throttle it's good, but it just doesn't cruise nicely. I'm not going to battle the race cam that's in it, so out it comes, being replaced with stock 30-30 cam.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/050_1.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/050_1.jpg.html)
This thing was built for all business!
They recommend removing the inner valve spring for cam break in, and I think I'm going to leave them out!
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/058_1.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/058_1.jpg.html)
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/061_1.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/061_1.jpg.html)
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/063_1.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/063_1.jpg.html)
Getting back to a more "normal" valvetrain.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/065_1.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/065_1.jpg.html)
Since the balancer was already degreed in 90 degree increments, it made it easy to follow the CRG valve lash method. I set mine to .030 instead of the CRG .026 since I'm reusing the roller rockers.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/067_1.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/067_1.jpg.html)
I'm also not going back with the Edelbrock Victor intake and Holley 850 DP. After some suggestions on here and a lot of thought, I'm going tunnelram!!
I found an old Edelbrock TR1Y on ebay, so that's going on, along with some old original M/T valve covers.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/131.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/131.jpg.html)
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/132.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/132.jpg.html)
I'm going to try it with a pair of 390 vac. secondary Holleys and see how it does.
Stay tuned!
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Maiden voyage! (before cam change)
https://youtu.be/P0Et0Jy3eR8
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looking good. Don't forget to remove the hood!.... ;D
Also the license plates are a nice touch.
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Thanks! Yeah, I just found the hood on Craigslist for $50. It's even Hugger Orange! Off it comes.
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$50 is a good deal. Looking forward to seeing it back on the road with the tunnel ram. It looks so cool with all the decals as your jamming the gears, WTG
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Cool choice on the TR.. sweet ride
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I noticed in the picture of the transmission that the cross member is in backwards.
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Thanks. I'll flip it around the next time I'm in there.
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I might be interested in some of the old race parts if you decide to sell them. Neat car for sure!
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Here's the build/blueprint papers from the engine that's in the car now. From 1977! He raced it off and on until 1986 when he broke a driveshaft. It's a well built engine; I just wish it didn't have aluminum rods. I'm getting ready to have a DZ 302 engine built for this car (V0820DZ). Not the original from this car, but an original DZ at least. I'm still working on acquiring the original engine from this car. The guy that has it bought it in 1971 and it's been in his garage ever since! He has quite a collection of parts I guess. I've only talked to him on the phone; haven't met him in person yet. He apparently likes to buy stuff but generally is not interested in selling anything. He said he would sell me the engine since it would be going back into the original car it came from. Funny thing, he only lives about 6 miles from me!
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/69%20Z28%20Race%20Engine%20Build-1c.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/69%20Z28%20Race%20Engine%20Build-1c.jpg.html)
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/69%20Z28%20Race%20Engine%20Build-2c.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/69%20Z28%20Race%20Engine%20Build-2c.jpg.html)
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/69%20Z28%20Race%20Engine%20Build-3c.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/69%20Z28%20Race%20Engine%20Build-3c.jpg.html)
And the cam card for the solid roller that I took out and replaced with a stock 30-30 cam.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/69%20Z28%20Race%20Engine%20Build-4%20Cam%20Cardc.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/69%20Z28%20Race%20Engine%20Build-4%20Cam%20Cardc.jpg.html)
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That would be awesome if you are able to get the original block.
Good updates, stick with it!
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I have an 08E Z. Does your V0820DZ have a VIN?
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Yes. 676496
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/V0820DZ%20VIN.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/V0820DZ%20VIN.jpg.html)
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That solid roller would have been pretty wicked especially with the aluminum rods... bet that thing would rev to the moon lighting quick!
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Yeah James. And combine all of that with the 5.86 rear that was in it and I'm sure it was a wild ride! :)
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wow set up for the 1/8 mile... aluminum rods set below the deck... to allow for stretch... oh I know too well those drag engines.
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So, why aluminum Rods?
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I believe the lower reciprocating weight allowed the engine to rev high and rev quick, so they were used in all-out performance builds. The downside is the properties of aluminum only allow so many high rpm stress cycles, so after so many 1/4 mile runs you were supposed to change the rods. From what I understand that makes it not a good choice for a long term street engine.
In todays engines, they do it with titanium connecting rods which allow the very low reciprocation weight and long term durability, at a fairly high cost! $$$ The C6 Corvette LS9 and LS7 (also in 5th Gen Z28) use titanium connecting rods.
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I believe the lower reciprocating weight allowed the engine to rev high and rev quick, so they were used in all-out performance builds. The downside is the properties of aluminum only allow so many high rpm stress cycles, so after so many 1/4 mile runs you were supposed to change the rods. From what I understand that makes it not a good choice for a long term street engine.
In todays engines, they do it with titanium connecting rods which allow the very low reciprocation weight and long term durability, at a fairly high cost! $$$ The C6 Corvette LS9 and LS7 (also in 5th Gen Z28) use titanium connecting rods.
Not only reciprocating but also rotating mass (big end of the rod)
removing a few ounces of weight from the rotating and reciprocating masses will yield a larger improvement in lap times than removing a few hundred pounds in vehicle weight... why? a few ounces accelerated through the RPM range many times per lap takes more horse power than one could imagine.
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I had decided from the get-go that I wouldn't service the front drum brakes if there were any issues, and one of the wheel cylinders started leaking, so off with the drums and on with a front disc swap kit. Not an upgrade, just getting the car back to where it once was. :)
Front drum brakes:
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/034_1.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/034_1.jpg.html)
Off the car:
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/059_2.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/059_2.jpg.html)
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/042_1.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/042_1.jpg.html)
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/041_2.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/041_2.jpg.html)
New discs going on:
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/060_1.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/060_1.jpg.html)
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/067_2.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/067_2.jpg.html)
Some fresh wheels and tires coming next!
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I am surprised anyone would go through the trouble of putting drum on a disc car. I have heard that because the disc pads slightly drag, that drum are faster, but geez I gotta think the extra weight would negate any small gain like that.
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Agreed! I asked him about that a long time ago. He said he thought it would be quicker with drums.
Probably something he read at the time, or heard from somebody else.
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I don't think there is any doubt that for DRAG RACING, it's better to have drum brakes than disks... In the late sixties, when one could order disk brakes or use the drums (on most performance cars), if one was intending to to use it for 'acceleration testing'.. :)... They always went with the drums, and then back off a little on the adjustment so the wheels rolled very easily... :)
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That makes sense! I forgot about backing the adjustment off a little.
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Gary, I have doubts...
Maybe in the late 60's there were no doubts?
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Very common to see serious racers swap out front disc brakes for drums back then. Mine had it done too, looked like the original owner knocked the disc assembly out of the ball joints and pulled a complete '68 drum/spindle setup, including the drum master, from the junkyard to replace it.
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Gary, I have doubts...
Maybe in the late 60's there were no doubts?
Austin... to prove it to yourself, go PUSH a car wtih disk brakes vs a car with drum brakes! :)
that will convince you.... :)
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John where did you source the two-piece rotors from? I know there are several suppliers who offer US-made and imported reproductions, but interested in opinions on quality, fit, finish etc from anyone who has used them. I have my original take-off parts, but the rotors are close to minimum spec and have a few pits.
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I think with the drum brakes will hold the car better when doing a burn out vs using manual stock disc brakes.
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John where did you source the two-piece rotors from? I know there are several suppliers who offer US-made and imported reproductions, but interested in opinions on quality, fit, finish etc from anyone who has used them. I have my original take-off parts, but the rotors are close to minimum spec and have a few pits.
Tim, I bought the Heartbeat City Made in USA rotors. They aren't known for cheap prices, but I do like how they package their kits together and try to offer a Made in USA option for everything. I bought the complete kit for the changeover and everything went well. The rotors look good and everything fits well, so I'll see how they perform over time.
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Thanks John!
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John where did you source the two-piece rotors from? I know there are several suppliers who offer US-made and imported reproductions, but interested in opinions on quality, fit, finish etc from anyone who has used them. I have my original take-off parts, but the rotors are close to minimum spec and have a few pits.
Tim, I bought the Heartbeat City Made in USA rotors. They aren't known for cheap prices, but I do like how they package their kits together and try to offer a Made in USA option for everything. I bought the complete kit for the changeover and everything went well. The rotors look good and everything fits well, so I'll see how they perform over time.
I hope you know better by now. Heartbeat re-tags offshore parts as being Made in the USA. Something legal needs to be done about it. At best it's false advertising.
[/quote]
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Yeah, I read your other threads Dave. I will use more scrutiny in the future.
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I got the wheels/tires on a few days ago and took the car out for a drive! I went a little over 30 miles (the farthest this car has moved in decades) and all went well.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/3-10-17%203.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/3-10-17%203.jpg.html)
The car drives straight and true, and the speedo is right on, so I'm very pleased!
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/3-10-17%206.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/3-10-17%206.jpg.html)
The engine seems to run ok, but always smells like oil when running. I think it's a little leaky at the rear main and a few other places. I'm getting a DZ engine built for it that should be ready in another month or so. That will go in as soon as I get it. I've made a lot of progress on dialing the carbs in, so it's running pretty nice now under most conditions. Since there is no carb heat with a setup like this, I think it will run better when warm weather returns.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/3-10-17%205.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/3-10-17%205.jpg.html)
I'm going to take the car in for new ball joints due to boot damage, age, etc. I'm thinking about going with big block springs for that slightly higher in the front look that I always liked back in the day, but never did to my old Z (too busy autocrossing back then).
Proud member of the "short spoiler" club! ;D ;D
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/3-10-17%204.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/3-10-17%204.jpg.html)
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Sweet! :)
Paul
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funny you should mention your spoiler, seems to be a popular topic on different threads.
I see the paint on the deck lid, are you sure it always had a spoiler?
(BTW car is looking awesome, I vote keep current the Z stance)
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Where is the "drool" emoticon when you need it? What a great looking car. Love it.
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I like it too... :) .. and what a beautiful (and fast looking) color!~ :)
... has a short spoiler that another member is looking for... and painted incorrectly (as Austin points out)...
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Car looks amazing.. Even though it is orange... :P (Thats for you Gary)
Throw some E60 fronts and L60 rears to complete that Day 2 look.. Huge thumbs up regardless..
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Speaking of 'high output' Hugger Orange Z28's... :) I hope everyone caught the recent 'history update' on Steve Shauger's (PaceMe) 69 Z28 as posted over on the Yenko site...? :) If not you should go check it out!
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Speaking of 'high output' Hugger Orange Z28's... :) I hope everyone caught the recent 'history update' on Steve Shauger's (PaceMe) 69 Z28 as posted over on the Yenko site...? :) If not you should go check it out!
Where do I find it?
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link?
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I hope this is the one you are referring to Gary. What a great story!
http://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=141430
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Car looks fantastic John, and good news that the first drive went well. The missing hood makes me think of Freiburger and Finnegan's road trips on Roadkill!
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I hope this is the one you are referring to Gary. What a great story!
http://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=141430
Yes, that is the article.. or at least the posting/thread about it on Yenko.. :)
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Thanks for all of the feedback guys! I'm always open to your opinions on the car, whether they go along with my thinking or not. ;D
As for the spoiler, I guess the possibilities are 1) it came on the car when new, 2) it was dealer added, 3) a previous owner added it.
I know the car was repainted in the early 70's, prior to the guy I bought it from. Maybe during the repaint, the stripes were incorrectly extended, that is IF it came with the car when new.
If I look at the underside of the trunk lid I see 2 sets of holes for the Camaro emblem. The thing that makes me think it could be original is that I don'e see any evidence of nuts being tightened on the holes under the spoiler.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/019_3.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/019_3.jpg.html)
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/018_2.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/018_2.jpg.html)
And where the emblem is (one stud broken off).
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/017_2.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/017_2.jpg.html)
Pretty certain that the inside of the trunk lid is all original paint. It's not a huge deal either way, but I am curious. What do you guys think?
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John have you checked the diameter of the two torsion rods that pop the trunk lid up? If it's a factory-fitted spoiler, one rod will be thicker to compensate for the extra weight (leverage) of the spoiler.
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I have not checked that but will tomorrow.
Thanks Tim.
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I finally got a chance to check out the truck lid torsion rods, and they are different diameters.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/3-17-2017%206.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/3-17-2017%206.jpg.html)
This is looking at the driver side, and the upper rod measures .238" and the lower rod measures .280". That was measured with calipers.
The passenger side looks like this:
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/3-17-2017%202.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/3-17-2017%202.jpg.html)
Are those the right range of numbers for a factory spoiler car?
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Yep those are different diameters, I'd say it's a factory spoiler car. I had a hunch it was way back when, Figured it was a pretty decent chance because it's rare to see someone add a spoiler to a 69 and put the short one on. Everyone seems to go right for the 69 spoiler.
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My early LOS built 69Z (Oct 1968) also has the stripes that go down the back of the trunk lid, I also have the short rear spoiler, and trunk lid torsion bars that are
different diameter. Paint is original as far as I can tell, no evidence of rear end accident, and I have the short rear stripes in the rear.
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Great looking car!
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Good to see that, highly unlikely that anyone adding a spoiler later on would know about the different diameter rods, or bother to change one to suit even if it was known.
John when you're next working on the car, could you please have a look at the top seam joining inner and outer wheelhouses on the passenger side? In your second picture above, just to the left of the trunk hinge brace, it looks like there's something stamped on that seam..... Could be a sheetmetal date stamp, but I can't recall seeing one there before, plus it looks quite long.
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Tim, It does appear to be a stamping. I may have to study it some more but it looks like it was stamped from the other side before the 2 halves were joined. I can't easily make out much other than maybe a 'C'.
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/007_2.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/007_2.jpg.html)
It looks the same on both sides:
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/009_4.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/009_4.jpg.html)
While looking at these I noticed the trunk hinge braces are also stamped:
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/008_3.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/008_3.jpg.html)
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/010_3.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/010_3.jpg.html)
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Thanks for checking! I've seen the hinge brace stamps before (and week 49 lines up perfectly with a 12B trim tag for 'just in time' supply), but that wheelhouse one is yet another detail new to me. The learning never ends on these cars!
I'll have to check my notes, but certain I found '12437' stamped somewhere in the floor pan forward of and above the rear axle on my car. Thought at the time it was the Fisher Body style code to differentiate between a coupe or a convertible, but stamping was way too small to have been relevant as a check during body fabrication.....
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Here's a short in-car driving video:
https://youtu.be/gsxJlJANZoc
Since this video was shot I've done some carb tuning and it runs a lot better (doesn't die when stopping). Just waiting for engine to get finished, then I'll get it in and everything should start coming together.
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The DZ engine I'm having built is nearing completion!
They called and told me that they could not get to the compression ratio I wanted with the JE/SRP pistons that I provided. What I had told them originally was that I wanted at least 11:1 CR using a modern head gasket, without a lot of head milling, and without bothering the V0820DZ stamp on the block. They didn't like the idea of decking the block and not touching the stamping. I know some of you guys have done it that way but they either couldn't or wouldn't. As assembled with the parts I provided they said the CR would be 9.9:1. I said that won't work. :) I mentioned Speed Pro pistons to them and he said they are too heavy and don't use a good ring pack and I would not be happy with that setup.
He said the best way to go was with a custom set of Ross pistons, that way they could specify the dome height, etc., it's a nice light piston, and uses a good ring pack. Of course they are more money, but I said go for it because I want the engine to be right.
Here's what the Ross piston looks like:
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/Ross%20custom%20piston%20for%2069%20302%20DZ%20engine%202.jpg) (http://s887.photobucket.com/user/speartech/media/Ross%20custom%20piston%20for%2069%20302%20DZ%20engine%202.jpg.html)
These will give me the 11:1 cr that I want, while using a .030 MLS head gasket and minimal milling.
I'm getting excited!