CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Logroller on September 13, 2016, 12:43:09 PM

Title: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: Logroller on September 13, 2016, 12:43:09 PM
I own a 1969 Z/28 with a 302 CNA motor. Has anybody ever heard of one of these. I did some research myself and this is what I came up with. My first investigation was a 1973 Chilton professional edition which says that in 1969 the Z/28 came with a DZ with a * (DZ*) next to it. When you look at the bottom of that page it tells me that it is a late production 1969 302 Z/28. So the next investigation I did was I went to Chevy Camaro engine suffix codes and it showed me that in 1970 chevy made a 302 with the same specs. as the 68 and 69 and only came in the Z/28. But if you talk to anybody else they never heard of such a thing. Then I went to CRG wedsite and started looking at all the specs for my 69 Z/28 and everything matches, like the block I have is a 3970010 which was built in August of 1969. My body is an X33. My CNA block is stamped VO 0915 which means produced in September 15, 1969. Could some one put some light on this subject for me......  Thanks
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: 69Z28-RS on September 13, 2016, 01:06:40 PM
They used the '010' block for many years building 350's.  To my knowledge, the 'late '69' Z28s were the last 302's built by Chevy (except for perhaps CE warranty or OTC short blocks), and all the late '69 302s I've seen had application stamp of DZ. 

What is the casting date on the back of the block??  Can you provide a photograph?
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: bertfam on September 13, 2016, 02:27:46 PM
Can you post a picture of the pad and the casting date on the block? And what's your VIN?

Yes, the 302 was still produced after 1969 and installed in the FIRENZA (http://hooniverse.com/2013/12/06/hooniverse-obscure-muscle-car-garage-the-chevrolet-firenza-can-am-302/). However, your suffix code of CNA indicates a 1970 Z28 350/360 engine and not a 1969 Z28 302/290 engine.

Is there a chance a 1970 Z28 engine was factory installed in your 1969? The chances are slim at best, but I'll reserve judgment until I can see the pad and get more info.

Ed
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: Logroller on September 13, 2016, 06:21:01 PM
My VIN# 124379N642244
Date on the back of the block is August of 1969.
The Suffix code for a CNA is a 1970 302/290hp not sure where you found it to be a 1970 350/360hp.
Also how much truth do I put into the Chilton 1973 Professional edition?
Mike
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: 69Z28-RS on September 13, 2016, 06:31:12 PM
Can you post a picture of the pad and the casting date on the block? And what's your VIN?

Yes, the 302 was still produced after 1969 and installed in the FIRENZA (http://hooniverse.com/2013/12/06/hooniverse-obscure-muscle-car-garage-the-chevrolet-firenza-can-am-302/). However, your suffix code of CNA indicates a 1970 Z28 350/360 engine and not a 1969 Z28 302/290 engine.
...
Ed

Ed,  Thanks for educating me on 302's produced for South African race cars (Chevrolet Firenza Can-Am); I had no idea Chevy produced 302's in 1972-3 for this purpose!  I'd love to see more detail (ie. production dates, application stampings, etc) on these engines for comparison to our '69 Z28 specs..    purely for curiousity purposes, as I have little/no interest in going to so. Africa to obtain one of these beasts.. :)
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: bertfam on September 13, 2016, 06:43:51 PM
Quote
My VIN# 124379N642244 Date on the back of the block is August of 1969.

Mike, your car was assembled in early May, 1969, so that block isn't original to your car.

Quote
The Suffix code for a CNA is a 1970 302/290hp not sure where you found it to be a 1970 350/360hp.

The 1969 302 was coded DZ. Even for the 1970's Firenza's. CNA is a 1970 Z28 350/360 with manual transmission.

Quote
Also how much truth do I put into the Chilton 1973 Professional edition?

For "numbers", I wouldn't put a lot of trust in it. However, for "repairs", the Chilton series is very good.

Ed
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: Logroller on September 13, 2016, 07:05:25 PM
www.chevy-camaro.com
www.mkmann.com
In these two websites they list the CNA block a 1970 302/290hp w/manual transmission.
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: bertfam on September 13, 2016, 07:06:56 PM
Quote
I'd love to see more detail (ie. production dates, application stampings, etc) on these engines for comparison to our '69 Z28 specs..

Gary, I don't believe there are any differences between the 69 Z28 and the Firenza 302 engine, but I'm hardly an authority on those cars!

Ed
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: bertfam on September 13, 2016, 07:08:47 PM
Quote
In these two websites they list the CNA block a 1970 302/290hp w/manual transmission.
www.chevy-camaro.com
www.mkmann.com

Mike, the chevy-camaro site is riddled with errors. If you want better references, use this site and/or Chevrolet by the Numbers by Alan Colvin, a member of the Camaro Research Group. The other site you posted is a religious site.

Ed
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: Logroller on September 13, 2016, 07:36:32 PM
I take it you have one of Alan Colvin's books and that's where your getting your information from?   I'm looking to sell my car and now I'm not sure what to ask for it? Its between a #2 and #3 body. Do you have a suggestion what I could sell it for?
Thanks for all the info.....
Mike
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: KurtS on September 13, 2016, 07:44:51 PM
It looks like CNA (302/manual) and CNB (302/TH400) were 302 codes that were pulled for 1970 production and then never used, since the Z went to a 350.
CTBN doesn't list them since they never made production.

I'd like to see a pic of the pad - never seen a CNA.

And yes, that block is not original to your car.
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: Logroller on September 13, 2016, 07:50:22 PM
I guess I just don't understand why then is the back of the motor or block by the firewall stamped  August of 1969?
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: bcmiller on September 13, 2016, 07:58:50 PM
Can you post some pics or send them to me and I will post them.

I will send you a PM.
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: KurtS on September 13, 2016, 08:05:15 PM
That was when the 1970 model year was supposed to start. It was pushed back until Jan 1970.
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: bertfam on September 13, 2016, 08:25:55 PM
Quote
I guess I just don't understand why then is the back of the motor or block by the firewall stamped  August of 1969?

I think you're looking at the casting date of the block, which lines up correctly with the suffix date of 09-15.

As for value, that's very difficult to say without seeing the car. Posting a few pictures might help, or posting a LOT of pictures on a site like PHOTOBUCKET (http://s61.photobucket.com) (or similar) would probably help even more.

The engine's not original so that will lower the value, but if you have any original documentation, that would offset the non-original engine a bit. Do you have any docs for the car?

Ed
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: Logroller on September 13, 2016, 08:32:26 PM
So in all my car is a 1969 Z/28 body with a 1970 350/360hp motor.... I wish GM would have kept better track of this :(
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: 1968 Z28 on September 13, 2016, 08:41:46 PM
Logroller.....I don't think tracking has any thing to do with this.  According to your VIN your car went through the assembly line in May 1969 and according to the engine numbers the engine was assembled in September 1969.  The figures don't add up correctly.

BTW.....are you the original owner of this car?
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: bertfam on September 13, 2016, 08:44:27 PM
Quote
So in all my car is a 1969 Z/28 body with a 1970 350/360hp motor....

Well hold the phone Mike!! Kurt stated that the CNA (and CNB) codes weren't released for production and you clearly have one!! So we have a paradox here!

Can you post a picture of the pad? If it really is a FACTORY stamped CNA code, then we have something very interesting going on!!!

Ed
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: Logroller on September 13, 2016, 08:53:00 PM
I am the third owner. I understand that the dates don't match but I need some solid proof saying my engine is not a later production 302 because everything that I have looked into (books and websites) it tells me that's its a 1970 302/290 hp. Maybe I should have said, don't believe everything on the Camaro web sites... or Chilton Books...
Mike
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: Logroller on September 13, 2016, 08:55:12 PM
When I get home tonight I will take some pictures and post them.
Thanks everybody for the info.
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: Stingr69 on September 14, 2016, 12:34:37 PM
In case it matters....1970 Camaros are either 1970 or 1970 and 1/2......Early '70 is a carryover of '69.  ;~D
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: 69Z28-RS on September 14, 2016, 01:09:17 PM
In case it matters....1970 Camaros are either 1970 or 1970 and 1/2......Early '70 is a carryover of '69.  ;~D

Several of us own 'late '69s'..  but I'm not aware or any that were 'termed 1970 Camaros' by Chevrolet???  or with a '70 dataplate....???
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: bcmiller on September 14, 2016, 03:42:00 PM
In case it matters....1970 Camaros are either 1970 or 1970 and 1/2......Early '70 is a carryover of '69.  ;~D

Not sure if you are kidding or what?

If it has the 69 body style, it's a 69 via the VIN and cowl plate. Even if it was built after the start of the 70 model year for other cars. 69 Camaros were built into November of 69. See this link for production numbers by month.

http://www.camaros.org/geninfo.shtml#HowMany

Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: bcmiller on September 14, 2016, 05:32:02 PM
Working on getting some pics to post. 

Pad currently has paint on it, and to adequately evaluate it - the paint will have to be removed first.
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: 69Z28-RS on September 14, 2016, 09:07:32 PM
logroller (mike) sent me some photos, and I've resized them for posting.   If he gives me approval to post, I'll post them.  Bryon is right re the paint on the pad which prevents accurate determination of the app stamp.  The car looks nice in the photos and appears to be an original Z28 (X33) with the majority of the parts original...
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: 1968 Z28 on September 14, 2016, 09:40:39 PM
Not for sure if this is Mike selling this car but it does have the same VIN that he stated.
     
     http://greenbay.craigslist.org/cto/5730433249.html (http://greenbay.craigslist.org/cto/5730433249.html)
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: bcmiller on September 14, 2016, 10:01:46 PM
If that's the car, has an SS steering wheel. And redline of tach seems too low.
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: 69Z28-RS on September 14, 2016, 11:38:31 PM
That seems to be the same car, but Mike sent me some additional photos and agreed for me to post them here...
X33 on the cowl tag and looks real to me..?

Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: 69Z28-RS on September 14, 2016, 11:40:04 PM
engine stamps and cast dates??  I've suggested that Mike clean the pad with a solvent to remove all the paint and rephotograph the entire pad.. but I'm also confused by that date (or time?)  stamp...  I'm not seeing a complete date...???
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: Z28Project on September 14, 2016, 11:58:34 PM
I'd definitely like to know more about the engine.

So MANY things tend to get changed on these cars over the years.

Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: bcmiller on September 15, 2016, 01:29:26 AM
I am out - until we have a clear pic of the pad without paint.
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: 1968 Z28 on September 15, 2016, 02:21:21 AM
I am out - until we have a clear pic of the pad without paint.
Good call. As the old saying goes......One picture is worth a thousand words.
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: jdv69z on September 15, 2016, 12:39:45 PM
I'd like to see the inside of one of those valve covers.
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: bcmiller on September 26, 2016, 01:25:30 PM
No new information so far...
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: GreenNV on October 12, 2016, 02:54:01 PM
Sure looks like it's hand stamped to me? Characters thus far do not align well at all.
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: KurtS on October 13, 2016, 04:23:37 AM
I saw a clearer pic - decked and stamped....
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: bcmiller on October 15, 2016, 04:25:15 PM
Right. I forgot to report back...
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: Lordbyter on February 28, 2018, 01:38:13 AM
I realize this is an older post but I read in a Chilton's manual that some late production 1969 z28 302's were stamped CNA because they were produced in early 1970, and from 1970 on all engines had 3 digit codes.
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: BULLITT65 on February 28, 2018, 05:00:41 AM
Hi LordByter,
Welcome to the CRG!

As stated earlier, a good resource for correctly identifying parts, and application is Alan Colvins book(s) Chevrolet by the numbers. While Chiltons is a good manual, they just provide general info for the codes on blocks, and should not be referenced for correctness.

Please feel free to start a new post and tell us how you came to find the CRG, and post some pics of your 1st gen Camaro.  :)
(also fill us in, on the meaning behind that screen name)
Title: Re: 1969 302 DZ/CNA Block
Post by: x77-69z28 on March 01, 2018, 05:02:27 AM
Info on the second gen site states that CNA code is a 307 a/t.