CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Original Cars and Details => Topic started by: KurtS on July 14, 2016, 05:24:33 AM
-
Roy bought a really original 68 SS350. Hopefully he figures out how to post pics. :)
-
Great looking car!
-
Sure is ! Notice the white cowl tag. Have heard some Norwood 68's got that, but this is the first I've seen it. What's the build date, if you don't mind me asking ?
Thanks !
-
The date code on the cowl tag is 10B and yes it appears to be painted white!
Long story short this is Jerry MacNeish's fault, I've been bitten again and as a result I now own another car, like I need another one. I’ll have some better pictures eventually, right now I'm just trying to wrap my hands around it. Jerry MacNeish pointed the car out to me and advised me that it is one of if not the best unrestored Camaro's he has ever inspected.
I know the brake hoses and battery have been changed. It's butternut yellow, black vinyl hardtop, 4speed. Still has the original door protectors used at the factory for shipment, protect-o-plate, original title and owner history to day one.
I'm just a sucker for these original unrestored cars. Original paint, exhaust, mufflers, clamps, red line tires and it drives spectacular, like a new car. I know you want pictures, it may be a few days before I get better ones to you because frankly I'm travelling and not going to be near its climate controlled storage for ten days.
I know very little about Camaro's, do believe the rally wheels are added based on notes in the file on the car.
-
Any one else notice the additional "T" under the trim tag and the 2? on the pass side?? 8)
Roy could you double check and make sure Im seeing it correctly that the heater hoses are GM logo on one and ribbed on the other? Congrats again on an amazing 68.
-
Any one else notice the additional "T" under the trim tag and the 2? on the pass side?? 8)
Roy could you double check and make sure Im seeing it correctly that the heater hoses are GM logo on one and ribbed on the other? Congrats again on an amazing 68.
Fantastic car Roy, a real beauty. I noticed the additional T. I also took note of the patina on the logo hose versus the ribbed heater hose. The engine compartment is spectacular!
-
Also looks like no dum dum under the squirters but kinda hard to tell from the pics.. Green car did not have any either but have seen others that have.. Must have been hit and miss.
-
Yes one hose ribbed, one GM logo. Thank you all for the kind words. It's important I think that you realize I have not washed or cleaned anything at this point, eventually I will - cautiously.
I've attached another photo I have with me, again I'm away from the car so can't send you any detail photos I do not have with me until after 7/26.
-
That's cool the 'MS' didn't fade from engine heat. I assume that was done in a grease type of marker or maybe chalk?
Mike
-
I have a few pics with the engine code on the pass head for 68. One is a MO too.. Great pics.
-
I have a few pics with the engine code on the pass head for 68. One is a MO too.. Great pics.
Grease or chalk, if you were to guess.
Mike
-
Grease and it seems to have been a white that has discolored over time. Again personal opinion and experiences.
Edit: Not the best pic but the only one I had with me. Summer of 68 is the timeframe of the pic.
(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s649/cook_dw/Don%20Lee%2068%20Z-28%207_zpshz2q19a6.jpg)
-
Perhaps a marker like this? It develops yellowish skin over time.
-
Looks like grease is it 8)
-
Thats actually the same pencils I have in a variety of colors..
-
Unless the camera's white color balance is off, the PBT stamp colors look different from the usual orange or green.
I just love these time capsules. ;)
Mike
-
Very, very nice car! And the right year! :)
White Fisher Body tags seem to be fairly common in early 68. My car (even though it is far from original - and an 09C car by the way) wasn't messed with much in that area. I did some light cleaning there with a rag and lacquer thinner. From metal up I found, primer(s), firewall blackout, original body color overspray, white paint, then several layers of rattle can black and current paint color overspray. I removed the most recent overspray, and left the tag black with white numbers and letters showing.
-
Just noticed Kurt did not post the interior picture, so here it is.
-
Looks good!
Black ashtray on early 68s always seems odd, but it is 100 percent correct. :)
-
My '67 Corvette with original block had the two letter code on the side of the block when I had it hot tanked for rebuild. SO it had to be some kind of good grease marker.
-
Very, very nice car! And the right year! :)
White Fisher Body tags seem to be fairly common in early 68. My car (even though it is far from original - and an 09C car by the way) wasn't messed with much in that area....
Bryon, that's only Norwood cars, right ? Mines 11A and didn't notice any white.
Thanks
-
Looks like it (Roy's car) has RS front wheel well moldings. I can't see the rear good enough to tell if they short as well. Are you pretty sure they're original ?
Have seen a few non-RS Z/28's with rear moldings cut short (like RS), but front moldings were long and have heard they were factory. I don't know, just seems odd to me. When I bought some NOS over the counter (early 90's), RS was no longer available and had to buy the full length moldings and cut them to fit !
-
Any one else notice the additional "T" under the trim tag and the 2? on the pass side?? 8)
Roy could you double check and make sure Im seeing it correctly that the heater hoses are GM logo on one and ribbed on the other? Congrats again on an amazing 68.
Fantastic car Roy, a real beauty. I noticed the additional T. I also took note of the patina on the logo hose versus the ribbed heater hose. The engine compartment is spectacular!
Several of our original cars have a 2nd 'T' under the trim plate; it's been speculated that perhaps that is the inspector's mark that he verified the Trim Plate in place??
Is this car the one that was discussed briefly here recently? one that was previously owned by Dick Whittington?? or is my old memory failing me again.. :)
-
Grease and it seems to have been a white that has discolored over time. Again personal opinion and experiences.
Edit: Not the best pic but the only one I had with me. Summer of 68 is the timeframe of the pic.
(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s649/cook_dw/Don%20Lee%2068%20Z-28%207_zpshz2q19a6.jpg)
Not to get away from discussing what seems like one heck of a great 68 and color combo that would go well with our YY 68 but I love that picture Darrell posted since it clearly shows the coolant by-pass hose painted orange similar to some other vintage photo's I have and have been given.
Roy, great addition to the stable and a car that will always maintain collectability. Cannot wait to see some underneath pictures of suspension, etc.......
-
Very, very nice car! And the right year! :)
White Fisher Body tags seem to be fairly common in early 68. My car (even though it is far from original - and an 09C car by the way) wasn't messed with much in that area....
Bryon, that's only Norwood cars, right ? Mines 11A and didn't notice any white.
Thanks
Yes I believe Norwood only.
-
White Fisher Body tags seem to be fairly common in early 68.
And I just saw a nice original 67 (later NOR) a couple of weeks ago. No white on the tag.
-
Its strange how every now and then you see one that doesnt and others that due.. Makes you wonder if it was a hit and miss thing or if there were other reasons..
-
White Fisher Body tags seem to be fairly common in early 68.
And I just saw a nice original 67 (later NOR) a couple of weeks ago. No white on the tag.
Kurt,
Did the tag have enough of a body color that was lighter than black? The reason I ask this is because I didn't have any mention on my 05B NOR of having white paint when I restored it in the mid-80's and I paid attention to detail when I took my notes back then. Most of the trim tag was butternut yellow with only some black firewall overspray on it. My thinking is that the yellow paint was light enough to make the tag codes visible so as not to spray it with white paint. Just a thought.
Mike
-
Looks like it (Roy's car) has RS front wheel well moldings. I can't see the rear good enough to tell if they short as well. Are you pretty sure they're original ?
To the best of my knowledge they are original to the car, I've only owned the car a few weeks, but I have decades of experience and knowledge with respect to original unrestored vehicles and their evaluation.
-
Is this car the one that was discussed briefly here recently? one that was previously owned by Dick Whittington?? or is my old memory failing me again.. :)
I honestly can't answer that, this car is 8N326357, Dick Whittington (a very good long time close friend of mine) is not mentioned in any of the paperwork, I have not called or asked him, when I contacted Kurt he indicated the first he heard of the car was when Jerry MacNeish mentioned it to him very recently.
-
Cannot wait to see some underneath pictures of suspension, etc.......
X2
-
Forgive me if it's been mentioned already and I missed it but how many miles are on it, Roy?
-
I know Im not Roy but according to the SYC thread. 7,129
-
Its strange how every now and then you see one that doesnt and others that due.. Makes you wonder if it was a hit and miss thing or if there were other reasons..
Simply a matter of lighting and eyesight, imo. Maybe Magoo worked at Norwood for time with a white spray bomb in his pocket... ? lol
-
Beautiful car, Roy! Pretty rare to find an unrestored car these days.... especially one as nice as yours. Congratulations!
-
Terrific find, Roy - looks like a marvelous original car! :)
-
Thank You all for the kind comments, I will be able to get some more pictures after the 25th. I owe this find to Jerry MacNeish - my son and I walked by it several times without realizing what we had just passed.
-
Kurt,
Did the tag have enough of a body color that was lighter than black?
No, it was black.
-
Ha!
Looks almost like a car in the 1968 Camaro Brochure.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/C2CJApahihVvXLrjRdOoBHUFM0tjVZ2T651j9s9ThhfwvB3HQjOasJrvz_AuMWOHXindAvpS4kXIEKAE059AGvpEE_cuZrA8D4hxPXlKLxOqDjAXn5btB5NGyLjKCP6NISC2c2n45OzOwX5ii43IB4gFvtAKMgaKI86VE-BcJEwku8BcfCHF6vaXLAy_bye2r8tforsiV97WAZWvmZCNcM5lA0iZbXpjwCVizExpp3yjSOuCF5KaMBcKJcOhrMZhT1Cvuy_MDC481HN1BpdRQHPizpu3eq4bgre5ScullAjFRm1rqwpYrc2QRTxUlLrowHzjMtGsG-Bz3-HDDmH1xmhpwIXqbNfjiuJNLLtx-rOOFDUxeEiVj5obND3Z-Gky4XQbqVMUvDCDAmr5w9jvWIt87COqH5-bei_q0kZwTsIrZbTdgEb8EazVQmcn07ET6P7_J_DUV8A8LBd42gtXoYHdZiLt5lmPvM0i5OWyeOkxP7EqWS87vUPBvMB8SxdaTwMuZAhwGT1GvkmOg_cs89LWJVRB1Fkv11NJWHIG--1zUsMdODQ0DoiPqK0Il9hUctOa3O3_uvhp6Vk2T4w-ko1WfYZd5mrf=w1920-h1440-no)
-
I just noticed the brochure car has a silver grille... lol Funny how you never notice something and then one day bang..!!..
-
Very, very nice car! And the right year! :)
White Fisher Body tags seem to be fairly common in early 68. My car (even though it is far from original - and an 09C car by the way) wasn't messed with much in that area....
Bryon, that's only Norwood cars, right ? Mines 11A and didn't notice any white.
Thanks
Yes I believe Norwood only.
Just wanted to point out other plants used the white spay out on trim tags also. NOR tag!
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/Lambreck%20Chevrolet/100_8372_zpszawxmcfi.jpg) (http://s192.photobucket.com/user/1-2-b-67L89/media/Lambreck%20Chevrolet/100_8372_zpszawxmcfi.jpg.html)
Janesville Tag
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/Lambreck%20Chevrolet/100_8375_zpsg2pdse6p.jpg) (http://s192.photobucket.com/user/1-2-b-67L89/media/Lambreck%20Chevrolet/100_8375_zpsg2pdse6p.jpg.html)
-
Guys, I purposely went dark on this car and decided not to post anymore about it until I was able to get it inspected by somebody more knowledgeable than I. It was taken to MCACN 2016 for Vintage Certification. By all counts it was very well received and held itself up proudly. Received "Vintage Legend Certification" passed all five sections over 91% with a five section average of 94.7. Interior, Engine, and Underbody were all over 95, Exterior and Trunk suffered the most because of the non original Rally Wheels, trim rings and center caps, with the paint scoring 196 points out of 200. We knew going in they were changed by the original owner and wanted to see how the car would do in its as purchased state, before we considered changing anything. With that said we now wonder if we should change this car to steel wheels and dog dish hubcaps or steel wheels and SS hubcaps, neither will be the original to the car but could be acquired date code correct and refinished as correct. It was in the MF Dobbins Fact Book in 1984 as it is now. So the big question anybody have five original unrestored butternut yellow wheels? Do 68 Norwood Camaro's have a build sheet located anywhere on the car? I do not want to disassemble this car but if there is a specific location I would look.
-
Absolutely beautiful car Roy. Best of luck with it.
-
Any one else notice the additional "T" under the trim tag and the 2? on the pass side?? 8)
Roy could you double check and make sure Im seeing it correctly that the heater hoses are GM logo on one and ribbed on the other? Congrats again on an amazing 68.
Fantastic car Roy, a real beauty. I noticed the additional T. I also took note of the patina on the logo hose versus the ribbed heater hose. The engine compartment is spectacular!
Several of our original cars have a 2nd 'T' under the trim plate; it's been speculated that perhaps that is the inspector's mark that he verified the Trim Plate in place??
Is this car the one that was discussed briefly here recently? one that was previously owned by Dick Whittington?? or is my old memory failing me again.. :)
Any one else notice the additional "T" under the trim tag and the 2? on the pass side?? 8)
Roy could you double check and make sure Im seeing it correctly that the heater hoses are GM logo on one and ribbed on the other? Congrats again on an amazing 68.
Fantastic car Roy, a real beauty. I noticed the additional T. I also took note of the patina on the logo hose versus the ribbed heater hose. The engine compartment is spectacular!
Several of our original cars have a 2nd 'T' under the trim plate; it's been speculated that perhaps that is the inspector's mark that he verified the Trim Plate in place??
My 69 Z as well has an extra T under the trim tag. Actually I would have never noticed it until William mentioned to look for it. With all that RS stuff around the tag and wiper motor it was completely covered with hoses and out of view.
-
Do 68 Norwood Camaro's have a build sheet located anywhere on the car? I do not want to disassemble this car but if there is a specific location I would look.
Very few Norwood-built Camaros have an original body or chassis broadcast copy. They were generated on the Chevrolet side after receiving the assembled body from Fisher. As received, most of the interior was installed. They were often left in the car after final assembly and discarded during new car prep. Sometimes they were retained and filed with other paperwork.
Some Camaros built at Van Nuys still have remnants of the BBC taped to the fuel tank, usually badly weathered.
-
If it were mine I would put painted rim and dog dish caps back on even if you have to paint the rims.
-
I agree.
If the wheels are not original paint, it doesn't hurt the car at all. It a great car.
-
Guys, I purposely went dark on this car and decided not to post anymore about it until I was able to get it inspected by somebody more knowledgeable than I. It was taken to MCACN 2016 for Vintage Certification. By all counts it was very well received and held itself up proudly. Received "Vintage Legend Certification" passed all five sections over 91% with a five section average of 94.7. Interior, Engine, and Underbody were all over 95, Exterior and Trunk suffered the most because of the non original Rally Wheels, trim rings and center caps, with the paint scoring 196 points out of 200. We knew going in they were changed by the original owner and wanted to see how the car would do in its as purchased state, before we considered changing anything. With that said we now wonder if we should change this car to steel wheels and dog dish hubcaps or steel wheels and SS hubcaps, neither will be the original to the car but could be acquired date code correct and refinished as correct. It was in the MF Dobbins Fact Book in 1984 as it is now. So the big question anybody have five original unrestored butternut yellow wheels? Do 68 Norwood Camaro's have a build sheet located anywhere on the car? I do not want to disassemble this car but if there is a specific location I would look.
That is a fantastic car, and appreciate you participating in the Vintage Certification program. It was ironic how I had just met Frank Incremona at the show, and mentioned to him that a car on the back cover of his book was just steps away. He was amazed and signed the book you had on the dash.
Dog dish caps and wheels are my choice and would make that car pop.
-
Steve, Your right that was cool getting his signature in the book he and Dobbins published. The car being on the back cover in a full side shot with multiple other pictures inside the book is very cool, considering that book was published in I think 1984. Seventeen years into the cars life and now twenty two years later the book has been signed while at the first event it has ever been judged at. All of this lends to our hesitation to change the wheels, the decision has been made we are in the process now of acquiring the wheels and have located the hub caps.
I'm just blown away by several things on this car, I thought it was original, as I've said before I've been around these cars all my life turned sixteen as the 1967 were introduced.
Thank You, MCACN was a great experience - we will be back.
-
Steve, Your right that was cool getting his signature in the book he and Dobbins published. The car being on the back cover in a full side shot with multiple other pictures inside the book is very cool, considering that book was published in I think 1984. Seventeen years into the cars life and now twenty two years later the book has been signed while at the first event it has ever been judged at. All of this lends to our hesitation to change the wheels, the decision has been made we are in the process now of acquiring the wheels and have located the hub caps.
I'm just blown away by several things on this car, I thought it was original, as I've said before I've been around these cars all my life turned sixteen as the 1967 were introduced.
Thank You, MCACN was a great experience - we will be back.
It was great talking to you Roy and wow, what a car you have! And thank you for taking the time to visit our car and have more discussion at MCACN. Great show, great cars, and even greater people to meet. Congratulations again!
-
Guys, I have sourced and acquired original wheels now, can somebody confirm what the paint process was. Were these wheels like corvette wheels painted black originally then color coated on the front only. I assume they were enamel? was there a lot of color over spray through the slots to the backside of the wheel? pictures of original wheel other than black on back side??
-
Roy, here you go...
http://www.camaros.org/pdf/tech_wheelpaint.pdf
Paul
-
Looks like it (Roy's car) has RS front wheel well moldings. I can't see the rear good enough to tell if they short as well. Are you pretty sure they're original ?
To the best of my knowledge they are original to the car, I've only owned the car a few weeks, but I have decades of experience and knowledge with respect to original unrestored vehicles and their evaluation.
It just dawned on me (duh) :-[ the car doesn't have "belt reveal" moldings (wide moldings at the base of the side glass) which were included with Z21 and Z22. I'm thinking the wheel well moldings were likely added as they were part of Z21/22 as well.
-
Looks like it (Roy's car) has RS front wheel well moldings. I can't see the rear good enough to tell if they short as well. Are you pretty sure they're original ?
To the best of my knowledge they are original to the car, I've only owned the car a few weeks, but I have decades of experience and knowledge with respect to original unrestored vehicles and their evaluation.
It just dawned on me (duh) :-[ the car doesn't have "belt reveal" moldings (wide moldings at the base of the side glass) which were included with Z21 and Z22. I'm thinking the wheel well moldings were likely added as they were part of Z21/22 as well.
There were no notations on the Vintage Certification score sheets about the wheel well moldings, in fact they were scored as 100% original, lost .02 points for condition. They were on it in the picture from the 1984 fact book, and I'm told they were not added, but its a 50 year old car and we've only had it a short, short portion of that time.