CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Originality => Topic started by: lemarin on April 25, 2016, 03:11:08 PM
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I just my complete engine/engine bay rebuilt and I'm now ready to install the decals, back to original state.
I do have few questions, maybe some pictures would be appreciated.
I bought a complete kit for my engine (LM-1 350/255) from heartbeat, and I'm wondering if it's the best kit ? Maybe there's few other decals I should buy separately elsewhere?
Now I'm wondering about the locations for 3 specific decals:
1-The brake booster tag: where should it be installed, exactly ? Any pictures ?
2-The pollution/exhaust emissions decals: on most of the car I see, they were directly located on the radiator top bar (or rack, not sure about the proper name of it). On my car, there's few plastic clip from under, so there's not enough room to stick the two decal. Anyway those two decals are too high to be stuck on this support. Maybe there's a better place to order those decal and they have the right size ? For now I stick them directly on the fan shroud, is ut correct ?
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I just my complete engine/engine bay rebuilt and I'm now ready to install the decals, back to original state.
I do have few questions, maybe some pictures would be appreciated.
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2-The pollution/exhaust emissions decals: on most of the car I see, they were directly located on the radiator top bar (or rack, not sure about the proper name of it). On my car, there's few plastic clip from under, so there's not enough room to stick the two decal. Anyway those two decals are too high to be stuck on this support. Maybe there's a better place to order those decal and they have the right size ? For now I stick them directly on the fan shroud, is ut correct ?
The original emissions/tuneup sticker on my car is located on top of the radiator support bar, just to the right (drivers side) of center. It is NOT correct on the fan shroud.
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Like Gary said, proper placement of the emissions decal is on the radiator support like this:
(http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q573/SgtHawkUSMC/69%20Camaro%20SS396%20L34/69%20Core%20support/IMG_20150702_181700_1.jpg) (http://s1164.photobucket.com/user/SgtHawkUSMC/media/69%20Camaro%20SS396%20L34/69%20Core%20support/IMG_20150702_181700_1.jpg.html)
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Ok, that's what I taugh, but look at the pictures I took of my radiator bracket, compare to the size of both decals, and they can't fit in there !
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n187/lemarin13/Mobile%20Uploads/DC570FEE-7C40-4AE4-997C-2FB653AD0626_zps9dwsozla.jpg) (http://s112.photobucket.com/user/lemarin13/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DC570FEE-7C40-4AE4-997C-2FB653AD0626_zps9dwsozla.jpg.html)
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n187/lemarin13/Mobile%20Uploads/2166BF70-5D9C-4432-ACD6-D71714F6B5E9_zpsysxqgavi.jpg) (http://s112.photobucket.com/user/lemarin13/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2166BF70-5D9C-4432-ACD6-D71714F6B5E9_zpsysxqgavi.jpg.html)
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n187/lemarin13/Mobile%20Uploads/0EBA54ED-988C-4F97-9919-94422C3826BE_zps2ozqol0k.jpg) (http://s112.photobucket.com/user/lemarin13/media/Mobile%20Uploads/0EBA54ED-988C-4F97-9919-94422C3826BE_zps2ozqol0k.jpg.html)
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It is correct to have the labels on the fan shroud if you have Air Conditioning, as the hood seal gets in the way of the labels in their normal location. The cores support above is drilled for the A/C seal retainers.
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These pics are of my unrestored original '68 coupe. The emissions decal is 1 1/4" wide.
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It is correct to have the labels on the fan shroud if you have Air Conditioning, as the hood seal gets in the way of the labels in their normal location. The cores support above is drilled for the A/C seal retainers.
In fact, I believe the holes are made to secure the vacuum hose for the right headlamp cover. This hose is routed underneath the radiator support, using some plastic retainers.
Also I'm sure the replica decals are slightly bigger than the original ones....
Where did you bought yours ?
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My original L48 with A/C decal is on the shroud. There is a rubber seal that should be on top of the core support and a foam seal between the radiator and the core support if it has A/C.
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In addition of the Z22 kit, I do have also the A/C from the factory installed on mine....
What about the other decals ? Anybody has picture of their setup to show. It's hard to see pictures about that and originality through the web....
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1. You are missing the AC seal that goes on top of the core support.
2. No first gen ever used that thermostat decal.
3. Tune-up decal is fine on the shroud since you have AC.
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Are you sure about #2 Kurt?
My Z being original in that area definitely had 2 decals on the core support. It had the engine decal on the driver side as you would normally see. On the passenger side mine has what I assume would have been some sort of coolant decal since it was close to the radiator fill. However it was too deteriorated to make out what it might have been.
Is there another known decal on that side for early Norwood Z's?
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1. You are missing the AC seal that goes on top of the core support.
2. No first gen ever used that thermostat decal.
3. Tune-up decal is fine on the shroud since you have AC.
Kurt, do you have a picture of this AC seal ? I've seen pictures of many Camaro with AC equipped, but never notice this seal....
Does this seal available from repro ?
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Kurt, I've found a repro seal on heartbeat finally, but would appreciated to see a picture of it, once installed.
Also about the tire pressure driver door decal, if my car was originally equipped with F70-14 Redline tire, which one should I buy ?
This one ?
http://images.nitrosell.com/product_images/2/437/large-rps-1173.jpg
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Here's a pic from a survivor 1969 Pace Car with AC that I used to own.
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Great, thanks for the picture Dale. Can you tell me if the sticker on the shroud is an original one ? If yes, which one is it ?
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It is an original one but I don't have the car anymore.
It was pretty faded and hard to read too.
Sorry.
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Anyway your picture Dale, worth a lot for me !
About the decal on your shroud, it's probably the caution decal, but the repro of this decal, has square corner, yours has rounded corner....
probably the repro decal are wrong ?
The fact that there's only one decal (the caution one) might confirm the affirmation of Kurts, about the fact the there was no emission decal on the first Gen Camaro.
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Maybe that was a typo, or brain F**t.. :) but the statement just made was incorrect. First gen camaros DO HAVE the emissions sticker. It was the 'Thermostat' decal that was incorrect (as Kurt pointed out).
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Dale's picture shows the EMISSION sticker on the shroud of a small block A/C car. Mine is exactly the same.
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Yes, I think that has been established; my prior statement that the emissions sticker should not be on the shroud was incorrect for an air conditioned car... None of the Z28s I've owned were air-conditioned!! so I plead ignorance on that point..._ :) :)
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Maybe that was a typo, or brain F**t.. :) but the statement just made was incorrect. First gen camaros DO HAVE the emissions sticker. It was the 'Thermostat' decal that was incorrect (as Kurt pointed out).
However as I mentioned, there is an original decal on the passenger side of my cowl, opposite of the emissions sticker. Whether or not it's a thermostat decal I can't say as it's unreadable, but it does have rounded corners and is about the size of the thermostat decal. I don't believe it's the high octane decal as William assured me they weren't on Z's. Something was definitely in that spot though.
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It is correct to have the labels on the fan shroud if you have Air Conditioning, as the hood seal gets in the way of the labels in their normal location. The cores support above is drilled for the A/C seal retainers.
In fact, I believe the holes are made to secure the vacuum hose for the right headlamp cover. This hose is routed underneath the radiator support, using some plastic retainers.
There are no holes in the top of a 69 Core support to for plastic clips to hold up the RS vacuum or headlight washer hoses, they are supported with those big fat wire tys that get wrapped around the front wiring harness that runs across the front of the radiator under the lip of the core support in about 4 places. The only time those little 1/8" (about) are drilled in the core support is when the A/C seal was added, originally there would just be dimples in the top of the support to locate the holes, but they are not drilled.
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Ok ok, I misunderstood the Thermostat decal. So it should be exactly like Dale's picture: only one decal (emission decal), located directly on the shroud, on the center (not like I did, driver's side, and "Caution Thermostat" decal on passenger side). The "caution thermostat" decal should disappear....
And we're tiling about AC equipped first gen Camaro !
For the passenger side Vacuum hose+washer hose, anyone has a picture of where they are exactly routed, from driver's side to passenger side ? If you look on my pictures on my prior post, few of these holes are filled in by some plastic clip, from under the core support.....we can see the bottom end of those clip on top of the core support, it's not correct ?
When Mark mentioned that they are routed "under the lip of the core support", I'd like to figure exactly that one....and a picture worth thousand words !
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It is correct to have the labels on the fan shroud if you have Air Conditioning, as the hood seal gets in the way of the labels in their normal location. The cores support above is drilled for the A/C seal retainers.
In fact, I believe the holes are made to secure the vacuum hose for the right headlamp cover. This hose is routed underneath the radiator support, using some plastic retainers.
There are no holes in the top of a 69 Core support to for plastic clips to hold up the RS vacuum or headlight washer hoses, they are supported with those big fat wire tys that get wrapped around the front wiring harness that runs across the front of the radiator under the lip of the core support in about 4 places. The only time those little 1/8" (about) are drilled in the core support is when the A/C seal was added, originally there would just be dimples in the top of the support to locate the holes, but they are not drilled.
What you described is exactly how my RS Z is done.
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I found a photo of such a tie.... from my disassembly photos.
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It is shown in your Assembly Manual (AIM) under RPOZ22 page B6.
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My tune up decal is on the fan shroud aswell , mine is a 03D Vannuys build 69 Z/28 ...
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I found a photo of such a tie.... from my disassembly photos.
Yup, my car is full of those. About 4 or 5 going across the core support holding the vacuum hoses, another pair of them on the driver inner fender holding the hoses to the wire harness, there are 2 or 3 more on the firewall around the booster and wiper motor area. Then down behind the headlights where the actuators are there is one of those ties on each side holding the hose as well.
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My original tune-up decal is on the fan shroud, non A/C 1969 350 SS. Is the consensus that this is incorrect?
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Here is my original.
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Is it à caution decal or emission decal ?
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That would be the emissions decal.
They never really had the caution fan decal originally however it wasn't unusual for the dealer to put one on when the car came in for service. This happened a lot in the Ford world. Originally no caution decals but Ford dealers commonly installed them at the cars first service.
So technically having a caution decal is incorrect but a lot of guys are installing them and calling it a "day 2" restoration :shrug: Depends on how you want to look at things I guess. So many out there now it's become the norm for others doing restorations.
However I don't see this done much in the Chevy camp.
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Is it à caution decal or emission decal ?
Yes that's the emission or tune up decal. Not a caution fan or caution thermostat sticker. ;)
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It is correct to have the labels on the fan shroud if you have Air Conditioning, as the hood seal gets in the way of the labels in their normal location. The cores support above is drilled for the A/C seal retainers.
I'm glad you mentioned that - I was going to ask. Explains why my tag is not on the support, 'cause the seal definitely would obscure it -
Regards,
Steve
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Here is my original.
Great picture ! But looking at the size of your decal, it looks a bit different than the repro ones I've found.....
Look at the proportion of this one I bought, compare with yours:
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n187/lemarin13/Mobile%20Uploads/DC570FEE-7C40-4AE4-997C-2FB653AD0626_zps9dwsozla.jpg) (http://s112.photobucket.com/user/lemarin13/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DC570FEE-7C40-4AE4-997C-2FB653AD0626_zps9dwsozla.jpg.html)
(http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14535.0;attach=19358;image)
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I've definitely seen some non-AC cars with the emission sticker on the shroud, and not in the center of the shroud.
But most are on the core support.
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Here's my original on the core support driver's side. Can just barely make out "CF"
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Here's my original on the core support driver's side. Can just barely make out "CF"
It could be CF or CE, it's hard to see. According to heartbeat repro decal:
For the 302 and 350 (255 or 300) it's CF
For the 307, 327 and the 350/250 it's CE
For the 396 and 427 it's CH
For the other 396 it's CG
For the 396, it's CG, for the 302
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It's "CF" - 302
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CD - L22
CE - 307 & 327 & L65
CF - LM1 & L48 & Z28
CG - L35 & L34
CH - L72 & L78 & ZL1
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It's funny because when you buy the complete decal pack for the LM-1 at Heartbeat, they give you the CE decal....and when you look at the description of each emission decal sold separately, it's clearly indicated that for the LM-1, it's the CF that should be bought....They don't even apply their own description.
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What is the decal located on the front of the radiator core ? It seems to be original as this is an 1969 327 survivor. Surprising to see that it's not on top of the core....
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n187/lemarin13/s-l1600-4_zpskkncgnc5.jpg) (http://s112.photobucket.com/user/lemarin13/media/s-l1600-4_zpskkncgnc5.jpg.html)
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That is because it is a air car and the seal is in the way. Also have seen them on the fan shroud on some cars.
Mike
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Never say never..
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I'm showing this picture because it's the first time I see a decal at this location....On my 69 RS with A/C, I put it on the fan's shroud (like this Z just above).
It seems that there was no constant on the location of those decals.....it may depends of the worker's humour, or maybe whom was working at the factory that day !
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Another one on the shroud, 69 COPO
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I would think there put on by hand and it was a low tech job so they might move around some. Kind of like the jack and posi decals. If you are going for correct they should be crooked.