CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: HawkX66 on April 19, 2016, 01:02:04 PM
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What were the dimensions of the dam used for installing the windshield?
Thanks.
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The dam supplied in a kit supplied by a customer is just shy 1/4"x3/8" on both dimensions. Dams and urethane is cheaper through glass suppliers than those sold by others. A qualified tech can lay a clean bead without a dam.
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The dam supplied in a kit supplied by a customer is just shy 1/4"x3/8" on both dimensions. Dams and urethane is cheaper through glass suppliers than those sold by others. A qualified tech can lay a clean bead without a dam.
Thanks a lot Scott. I'll be doing it myself. Do you think something like this dam and urethane would be ok? These two don't seem too out of line price wise.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001G0PBHU/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=35K36EBR01KSA&coliid=I3D1EGUEGG68K4
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000RW1XCK/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=35K36EBR01KSA&coliid=I10NL94270TQ1I
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Dave, I generally have a glass tech do my installations and would would ask him what product is currently the best. There is DOW and Sika also. C.R. Laurence in your link is a big distributor, as well as GT Glass and Marcy. Prices vary but if you have Amazon Prime then shipping is free. Try your local jobber too. Some urethane is primerless to glass but still needs a primer to the windshield channel bed.
Technically, the bed should not be painted and only have epoxy on it. This is often on the tech sheet. I tape mine off prior to painting the car. However, for decades we always painted the beds without any problems. It is a liability issue for the glass and urethane companies. The foam in the link appears to be what you want. Here is another sample:https://www.gtglass.com/auto-glass-replacement-tools/windshield-moldings-and-auto-glass-tape/windshield-replacement-foam-installation-tape
The application tip should be cut in a "V" to lay the bead correctly and at the proper height.
Like anything else, there are forums for professional glass techs.
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This topic could not have come at a better time. I was struggling to find what the size of the dam was. Thanks for posting those links!
I did order the Sika Titan adhesive that was mentioned from a past threat from that guy who sold a kit with a close look to the cloth in the dam. I think he mentioned that he cut the tips in the kits before sending but when I ordered two tubes of Sika from Amazon, the tips came pre-cut with a 1/4" cut at the widest part of the V.
Mike
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Dave, I generally have a glass tech do my installations and would would ask him what product is currently the best. There is DOW and Sika also. C.R. Laurence in your link is a big distributor, as well as GT Glass and Marcy. Prices vary but if you have Amazon Prime then shipping is free. Try your local jobber too. Some urethane is primerless to glass but still needs a primer to the windshield channel bed.
Technically, the bed should not be painted and only have epoxy on it. This is often on the tech sheet. I tape mine off prior to painting the car. However, for decades we always painted the beds without any problems. It is a liability issue for the glass and urethane companies. The foam in the link appears to be what you want. Here is another sample:https://www.gtglass.com/auto-glass-replacement-tools/windshield-moldings-and-auto-glass-tape/windshield-replacement-foam-installation-tape
The application tip should be cut in a "V" to lay the bead correctly and at the proper height.
Like anything else, there are forums for professional glass techs.
Thanks a lot Scott. That was perfect. I was trying to figure out what I was going to do with the window channel. Jam it or just prime it. Sounds like the best route is to just lay my epoxy primer then tape off a strip for the adhesive before painting. I'll have to think about that.
This topic could not have come at a better time. I was struggling to find what the size of the dam was. Thanks for posting those links!
I did order the Sika Titan adhesive that was mentioned from a past threat from that guy who sold a kit with a close look to the cloth in the dam. I think he mentioned that he cut the tips in the kits before sending but when I ordered two tubes of Sika from Amazon, the tips came pre-cut with a 1/4" cut at the widest part of the V.
Mike
Glad I got the timing right for you Mike. I saw those kits you mentioned too, but $100 or whatever it was was pretty rough. I think we'll be good to go with how we're doing it. I've done windshields before, but just on daily drivers. It wasn't hard. I just wanted to get my Camaro as "right" as possible.
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Hi Dave,
Yea....I thought $100 was steep after I added up the cost of the adhesive and see the price of the dam from the link you posted. If I were building a museum car then I'd fork over the $100 just to have the cloth style dam, but I'm building a local show car and weekend chick.....I mean, family cruiser 8)
I've done a few windshields before so I have the dry run routines down pretty good before applying the adhesive. The tips from the Titan tubes from Amazon coming pre-cut should take the guesswork out of how the adhesive is applied.
Mike
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Hi Dave,
Yea....I thought $100 was steep after I added up the cost of the adhesive and see the price of the dam from the link you posted. If I were building a museum car then I'd fork over the $100 just to have the cloth style dam, but I'm building a local show car and weekend chick.....I mean, family cruiser 8)
I've done a few windshields before so I have the dry run routines down pretty good before applying the adhesive. The tips from the Titan tubes from Amazon coming pre-cut should take the guesswork out of how the adhesive is applied.
Mike
I'd like to have that cloth style one too, but I think we'll live without it. I agree about Titan. That's pretty slick. I'll probably grab that instead of the 3M just for that reason. It actually comes out less than the 3M cost wise too. Thanks for pointing it out.
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So if it was already painted, sand the top coat off?
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You do not have to sand the topcoat off provided the prep is correct. The companies are concerned with poor topcoat adhesion due to poor workmanship which can result in glass retention failure upon impact. Fewer variables, less chance of failure. It is preferable by glass techs who know the industry to install glass over epoxy. New cars are covered under their own manufacturing scrutiny, collision repairs have different guidlelines.
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The original inner foam dam appears to be latex covered foam approx 1/4"-3/8" at the base and is about 1/2" to 9/16" tall tapering to a blunt rounded end.
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The original inner foam dam appears to be latex covered foam approx 1/4"-3/8" at the base and is about 1/2" to 9/16" tall tapering to a blunt rounded end.
Thanks James. Sounds like what I got might be too short.
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I have a car torn apart with an original roof skin. A 5/8"(.625) dam height added to glass thickness, urethane and molding will result in a glass elevation that is too high.
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I have a car torn apart with an original roof skin. A 5/8"(.625) dam height added to glass thickness, urethane and molding will result in a glass elevation that is too high.
Thanks Scott. I have my windshield out right now. I'll take some measurements just to verify how high I need to be before I do anything.
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The dam height is not the finished height, the dam actually rolls over on installation.
If completely vertical it would be 7/16" NOT 9/16" and as fitted the installed height is only 1/4-3/8".
I will post photos later.
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The dam height is not the finished height, the dam actually rolls over on installation.
If completely vertical it would be 7/16" NOT 9/16" and as fitted the installed height is only 1/4-3/8".
I will post photos later.
Thanks James. I'd like to see those photos. I'm not going with an original style dam, so what I have should be the correct finished height it sounds like.
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7/32 base width
10/32 installed height
16/32 overall uncrushed height.
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Rsy-u4wWlUIKsbyBKQAY2OtgEiSLvB4M5mlFlFa7xxbMwSg-k8EcY0vhS0ab9D7h-wQPkSoy0aFk5vAT7qtpNjcSC5-Oy1u9qieQoG0B72ch9etTcasBhLhPTU53gWghT-zyV2kcj-U_3ugBkrFzI4Ej-6eo2T6mfJoZ_KPq0sx5OcJWDgzDVNzgY6HqDHUoSHCjxezei8XlGaOf7cH8SHz5qpZHN5qsoeebHPKGY13LOp4k-88Kx5nCvWlF3_5pV-KglpG-URU1yFyg7NUUHVMb8kqE0REakz_nzT12cKaxgBkKx2xHfgWO1lM-VQN0hoDrYk_uTEXtoWEXx62I6eOCrta6RuYm2Oom9z0Ct8dAM6eo2HxRviRf5Bx1qXnHu1xADYjQ3-jwYgf-B3qOwBB8afqy69Ilgcfs_7GNrguLzeNDCzUr4hOd3Rd6YjcdoeBqj4OLKK7lI06As93ou6LlEbUCqXSqnRHUIBVszGxWJZwVDmhfO0t8ldbDN6OZzN9UkmyUri0M3nkahGNoMQR-D04W8slxewdypPDynIXQBionj_UPj7pqcWFkot4qauzPVsMAAYhpK15JHuiULEGn6fthx8Jc=w1257-h838-no)
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7/32 base width
10/32 installed height
16/32 overall uncrushed height.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/iuJQwxdvSsHTeAzB2ztOkatQ0NRz2EOZg8FJXhQI6DBq-0TKdHY_TgSdWpP-d6zhUpLBeuJXqe8YkjgJDw_QHLr2iFeCKhUfqM_6N-vbOzji1HcpRSdKY7jCExq2RazFtHw56KVGRw4tX3RfoAgTu9zIbOR0MdQ6NRq2eQu21KPmBIKGDePquQngNJk2XYKdlM4_UoV69vK0I9ueFDori_ypZ2a5WB0yR0zSzqQ-PRmlCXJT8-_auQgmsO7NXpfSOMsMgQMAfurq3oVlUqMbBXK5zKL2mJ28LJsFIEZ84AV5WqgmdDubUjoF8XdtuygkdaxWzf4oWsmaVz7VQjBI1W8OMwkqgo0ORBu457Pi9jSUro02Nsg2BqtL6kGxKdEugJEycYetSSeu8PZtmauwAHjWp4HhfxnqNDaoHV9n_XqdYmqsEFsOdo1-wxhVwxI96ly6NO556ALW2ib7AQjnrcEApjp4vTk6AhfzgyND3-NL_nFiEkSm1Lie4SJv6U2gq0RMEycdGg3cmmsb9RsqMYWk9sU1lwR6W6jOXI9nDYX4kcOrnASkawe286UhqZJnDvMWw3FqzN2RP7i2rMKOmQXV8fYLT954=w1257-h838-no)
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KuETzhh5shSSDy4JPfpW1dLeIRM5_nlt052ETvPiyF398jbawLRi2Moo4wX3DhjTGXR83_wzYz4GAQX29hCrFLZdJW9-jUDT250lf1tykrqrVwsX7z7nyUnzvtV8rEa0mDzr5h1-qKBnUiwqP9DtifXSY1O2y8-GNQZAA8gV1cMNA75sqaE2hHsV2khc-O9gOdhb8v-qvKy0jTZpH0um34k1FKriIOJjS-TdAzAE73XHVIcGRYfNLTS3vSxxOWefI-ZY9w8PITdN_HRe7pXA8oAfi65Sl8ZMFIml8BIMa40eI4vefuQAces1SLmoXsM-NrEM_jArqwZLNKYCt-k6r2lgX-t6OiggCaYbGFv9gJrk2LhMGh-0zFlSC65wrP9rJb2p1vKc4zmoP1NiSIxhELOYHO5E7hgbpX2zIsaNL2UUf0NpQcgyNfjjixSHfbAZOIDrZtfQztBWauvoMLcUsnO9NeQWQYOklhp50vkwmRR8QXwrdQHLv4LVzG9JEmSp6zWZPx-_3H0iD5pH7oWaCUr_lYfDQW3GiSfe_52MxkluKcJ-1zgf8QjL5WIjvpxKv-OnDA8fH_pYns0YK7jyoMLxSZrdKFAt=w1257-h838-no)
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Rsy-u4wWlUIKsbyBKQAY2OtgEiSLvB4M5mlFlFa7xxbMwSg-k8EcY0vhS0ab9D7h-wQPkSoy0aFk5vAT7qtpNjcSC5-Oy1u9qieQoG0B72ch9etTcasBhLhPTU53gWghT-zyV2kcj-U_3ugBkrFzI4Ej-6eo2T6mfJoZ_KPq0sx5OcJWDgzDVNzgY6HqDHUoSHCjxezei8XlGaOf7cH8SHz5qpZHN5qsoeebHPKGY13LOp4k-88Kx5nCvWlF3_5pV-KglpG-URU1yFyg7NUUHVMb8kqE0REakz_nzT12cKaxgBkKx2xHfgWO1lM-VQN0hoDrYk_uTEXtoWEXx62I6eOCrta6RuYm2Oom9z0Ct8dAM6eo2HxRviRf5Bx1qXnHu1xADYjQ3-jwYgf-B3qOwBB8afqy69Ilgcfs_7GNrguLzeNDCzUr4hOd3Rd6YjcdoeBqj4OLKK7lI06As93ou6LlEbUCqXSqnRHUIBVszGxWJZwVDmhfO0t8ldbDN6OZzN9UkmyUri0M3nkahGNoMQR-D04W8slxewdypPDynIXQBionj_UPj7pqcWFkot4qauzPVsMAAYhpK15JHuiULEGn6fthx8Jc=w1257-h838-no)
Great pics and measurements. Thank you!
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To bring up this thread again I'm at the point with the restoration to put in the windshield. I have the adhesive but was not sure what size dam tape people are using. Being the one James posted is not available, what size dam are people using when installing the glass? I'm figuring 1/4" base but the height I'm not sure of. Looking at the dimension James posted, would a 1/2" height crush down to what's needed to get the windshield at the proper depth before the trim is installed? I've not used the dam material so I don't know how much crush it has.
Thank You,
Mike
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I talked to the fella who does windshields on my driver cars, tried to tell him the Camaro originally had some sort of 'dam' to set the windshield, and he told me 'the urethane we use now is much better'... If I can find the 'original type material, then I'd prefer to do that, even if I had to do it myself... What do you fella say?? Is the material available? or should I allow him to set the windshield in the urethane he normally uses??
OR.. should I just leave in the original windshield (scratch and all) and leave the repro windshield in the box it came in??
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As far as I know the original style that folded over is not available but the square dam is though. The urethane's may be better but I thought the sole purpose of the dam was to prevent the urethane from being seen from inside the car so it was more for aesthetics, I assume. So far my research is leading me to get the .375 x .25" dam and that should have enough material compressed to fill in any irregularities around the perimeter of the glass & pinchweld area. I measured the convertible pinchweld depth and that is approximately 3/4". The windshield is approximately 1/4", I figure use a 1/4" spacer block to prevent the windshield from sinking too far in the uretnane adhesive when it's applied, then the trim molding is about 3/16" so that would have the molding almost flush with the outside trim. I'm curious if anyone here used .375" height dam material.
Mike
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As far as I know the original style that folded over is not available but the square dam is though. The urethane's may be better but I thought the sole purpose of the dam was to prevent the urethane from being seen from inside the car so it was more for aesthetics, I assume.
Mike
Straight from the man that knows.....http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=5347.msg37162#msg37162 (http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=5347.msg37162#msg37162)
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I've seen that article before. Too bad the original fold down dam isn't available anymore and it would be a good thing to reproduce, IMO. I guess my reply to Dave was more in regards to using urethane alone without a dam, which was the impression I got based on what the windshield installer said.
I went to a car show today and had seen a Camaro with the dam under the glass though covered mostly with the trim and he told me it was the square type though he didn't remember the size. He thinks it was 1/4" thereabouts and it sure looked like it did a great job keeping the urethane out of the passenger compartment. It looks so much better than some windshields I've seen with just the butyl tape. And one car had just the urethane adhesive and no dam and it didn't look good being the adhesive was seen from the inside and it wasn't smooth looking and poked out from the bottom molding. At this point I may just go with the .375x.25" dam with urethane. That's probably the closest we'll get to having it look original.
Mike
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As far as I know the original style that folded over is not available but the square dam is though. The urethane's may be better but I thought the sole purpose of the dam was to prevent the urethane from being seen from inside the car so it was more for aesthetics, I assume. So far my research is leading me to get the .375 x .25" dam and that should have enough material compressed to fill in any irregularities around the perimeter of the glass & pinchweld area. I measured the convertible pinchweld depth and that is approximately 3/4". The windshield is approximately 1/4", I figure use a 1/4" spacer block to prevent the windshield from sinking too far in the uretnane adhesive when it's applied, then the trim molding is about 3/16" so that would have the molding almost flush with the outside trim. I'm curious if anyone here used .375" height dam material.
Mike
A qualified glass tech does not need a spacer block. They apply the bead of urethane correctly, and press the gently glass down to the desired height. My new glass tech lays and neat, even bead that does not show beyond the moldings. Guaranteed or he'll yank it out and do it again which has not happened. He will use a dam but his bead is nice and it is not required unless you really desire to have it.
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Hi Scott,
I'll be doing the work myself so being I installed maybe 4 windshields in my life, the spacer will make up for my lack of "qualifications" 8)
Actually, I liked the way the dam gave a nice neat original look inside the car so I'll be using one.
Mike
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When the windshield got put in my car, we 'dry' fit it along with the moldings to get the foam dam thickness & position correct. I can't remember right now which foam dam I ended up going with, but it was one of these high density foam tapes from Marcy Adhesives:
ME6492 1/8" x 3/16"
ME6493 3/16" x 3/16"
ME6494 1/4" x 1/4"
ME6495 5/16" x 1/4"
ME6496 3/8" x 1/4"