CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Research Topics & Reports => Topic started by: JoeC on April 06, 2016, 08:10:12 PM
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I was the one who said the 4 digit code was a Firebird shifter.
From what I have seen , the 4 digit code was used on the early OEM Hurst shifters 1964 to 1968/69
All the 1969 Camaro shifters I have seen have the 6 or 7 digit code but it could be that some 4 digit coded shifters were used on Camaros.
I didn't keep track of the 4 digit codes but have a bunch or codes from actual 1969 Camaros .
here are some including the earliest one I have and the latest one I have and some in-between.
The earliest one I can find is Oct 1968 so I don't know when they changed to the 6 or 7 digit code.
Would need more data to find the latest 4 digit code and earliest 6 or 7 digit code
108D41C
118B18H
118D22M
128D33P
19D53D
29D21C
39D11D
59D72K
99B35D
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Joe I cut your post above from that other thread and started this topic.
You may be onto something. I will check to see what else I have for Pontiac Hurst shifters later this evening. A quick look at a 68 GTO shifter shows the similar 4 digit code (but coded for Feb 68) as that Firebird shifter.
OK I checked. The two images below are not from Camaros, but are related to the date coding.
68 GTO Hurst 4 speed shifter dated Feb 68 and 66 Lemans Hurst 3 speed shifter dated September 65.
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In addition to the 68B2 I posted a pic of in the other post...I also have a 19D33D & 39D21(Q or O?)
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In addition to the 68B2 I posted a pic of in the other post...I also have a 19D33D & 39D21(Q or O?)
Do you have dates of the cars those shifters are from?
Your other shifter dated 6 8B2 was in your 12B car.
The one posted a bit earlier was 6 8B2 from a 10B car.
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I remember both cars the shifters came out of, but back then we never looked at dates. So, sorry I cannot provide much.
Added pics. last pic 68B2 is off 12B Nor. X22
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Thanks for starting this thread. I was just about to. :)
If 69 owners could post their shifter dates and also their car's build date, we'll tabulate and see what the data says....
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I think I've done this before when we were discussing shifter dates, but here it is again:
69Z28-RS 09C (18Sept1969) Shifter mfg code 890731C (Aug'69? mfg 31Jul?)
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Gary, Joe may have a better idea. I know I have checked around in the past to try to find answers.
All I am PRETTY SURE of is the month and year. I THINK the numbers and letters after that are the batch code - but I don't know the exact decode for that part. Or if there even is a decode for the batch number.
Thus the reason for this thread and requesting data.
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Could be... the 0731 was so close to the Aug 69... I thought it *might* be? ie. maybe a daily batch?
Note: PaceMe (Steve Shauger) has a good understanding of these codes, as it was info from him that provided the info on month/yr/etc...
Here's another one. This was a swap meet shifter I picked up long ago, and traded to Dave Hawksley (maybe he's cleaned it and has a better photo of the mfg code)... :)
Looks to me like: 590423D
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Not likely a date since you note in the first post several with numbers in the batch code above 31 (max number of days in any month).
The month/year code info is pretty widely known.
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I got this shifter from Gary (69Z28-RS). It came from a Camaro, but I can't confirm the build dates of the car.
190423D (Jan 69)
(http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q573/SgtHawkUSMC/69%20Camaro%20SS396%20L34/69%20Trans%20M21%20Muncie/69%20Shifter/IMAG0688.jpg) (http://s1164.photobucket.com/user/SgtHawkUSMC/media/69%20Camaro%20SS396%20L34/69%20Trans%20M21%20Muncie/69%20Shifter/IMAG0688.jpg.html)
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I have 3 shifters at home I forgot to ad to my notes
78D2
19D53D (same number as one in my notes but different shifter)
690511C
I thought the 78D2 was a Firebird shifter but now that I think about it, a July shifter seems late for a 1968 car build
Hard to say what Hurst was doing with the codes/numbers
with the 6-7 digit codes, some have one letter some have two
a lot of "Ds" seem to show up
I know that approximately in the early 70s , Hurst changed the numbers used on the aftermarket shifters.
They went from using a serial number to using an ID code such as 391- 4340
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Thanks Joe.
We are still looking for Hurst shifter dates from original cars. Everyone - Please post if you have data. Especially from early 69s. Thanks!
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690711F code from 19N667739, P9H20B
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/69%20Hurst%20shifter%20numbers%2019N667739%20P9H20B_zpsddo22i5e.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/69%20Hurst%20shifter%20numbers%2019N667739%20P9H20B_zpsddo22i5e.jpg.html)
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Thank you Jon!
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Build date: 03B
Shifter code: 19D52P
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Thanks Darrell!
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Early Van Nuys 1969 Camaro Z28
Build Date 09D (1968)
Shifter Date code 8 8D3
Original Shifter for car
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suturb110 - thanks for your data. Would you happen to have a pic of the date code?
I think we are starting to see a pattern that some early 69s used the 4 digit date code. Now hopefully more data will give us the approximate time of the change.
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Please note that mine is a Norwood production if needed.
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Steve (paceme),
Does your Firebird have its original shifter? What's the code?
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Hi,
Attached is a picture of my early 1969 Z28 shifter. Build code 09D 1968 Van Nuys. The shifter date code is 8 8 D3. The first "8" was stamped real lightly by the bolt. The rest of the date code is real clear. After I resized the picture the first "8" got more faint.
Thanks,
Mike
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Date shifter
09C NOR 890731C
09D LOS 88D3
12B NOR 68B2
03B NOR 19D52P
07A NOR 690711F
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Minor change to order. Gary has a late car (09C)
Date shifter
09D LOS 88D3
12B NOR 68B2
03B NOR 19D52P
07A NOR 690711F
09C NOR 890731C
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I thought I remembered doing this before??
Car
12D 69 Z Norwood
Shifter
1280D31D
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You may have submitted it before, and we missed it. Sorry about that. We will add it. :)
Data on EARLY cars is the most important for what we are trying to determine.
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Date Shifter
02C LOS 19D52M
Bill
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You may have submitted it before, and we missed it. Sorry about that. We will add it. :)
Data on EARLY cars is the most important for what we are trying to determine.
No apology needed Bryon. I was just making sure I wasn't losing my mind, lol.
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The date Code on my shifter is 19D51J from a 02A Z/28
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Car shifter date
09D LOS 88D3
12B NOR 68B2
12D NOR 1280D31D
02A xxx 19D51J
02C LOS 19D52M
03B NOR 19D52P
07A NOR 690711F
09C NOR 890731C
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The date Code on my shifter is 19D51J from a 02A Z/28
LOS or NOR ??? If you can, try to make pic a little smaller next time. Thanks!
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So attached is a pic of the Hurst shifter from my 69 Z, build 10B, Oct 68. Shifter is dated 6 8B2. The 6 is hard to see. I'm not sure this one is on the list? Sorry if duplication.
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Thanks Jimmy V. I had copied your data over from the shifter report thread earlier.
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here are pics of my 78D2
looks original but has some surface rust
so far it looks like 88D3 is the latest 4 digit code and 108D41C is the earliest 6-7 digit code ?
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We haven't been keeping up with it, but are all these '69 Shifter bodies marked '3138', whether early or later ?? Or did they change the model number along with the mfg code in the September '68 timeframe??
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My 88D3 date coded shifter also has 3138 stamped on the front of the shifter body.
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Most if not all should be 3138 bodies.
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I also asked the 69 Firebird guys about shifters. Nothing yet.
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So where's the 3138 stamping? On the front if I'm under the car looking front to rear?
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yes on the front on the shifter.
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3138 is the Hurst part number just for that stamped part that makes up the outside case
It was used on many OEM shifters (Camaro Firebird GTO and others)
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Here you go - '69 Z, 04B VN, M22 trans: 9D53D
(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t478/jwlittooy/Z28%20Shifter/3bc191c1-416a-4c6e-b589-a5d7d308865a_zpstlkkh7ge.jpg) (http://s1061.photobucket.com/user/jwlittooy/media/Z28%20Shifter/3bc191c1-416a-4c6e-b589-a5d7d308865a_zpstlkkh7ge.jpg.html)
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Hans - Can you check to see if there is another digit before the 9 please? It may be very lightly stamped. Thanks!
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Is that a faint '1' before the 9D53D?
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Hans - Can you check to see if there is another digit before the 9 please? It may be very lightly stamped. Thanks!
Will do. I'll have to crawl under and see now. The shifter is on the car....but when I blew up the pic above, there does indeed seem to be a faint 1 before the 9...
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Found a better pic, so confirming the "1". Correct code 19D53D....for 04B VN RS Z....
(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t478/jwlittooy/Z28%20Shifter/DSC_9222_zpsahlrukzw.jpg) (http://s1061.photobucket.com/user/jwlittooy/media/Z28%20Shifter/DSC_9222_zpsahlrukzw.jpg.html)
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Finding a better photo sure beats having to crawl under an assembled car to get that info... :)
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Data so far from known original cars. Yell at me if I have missed any. :)
Car shifter date
09D LOS 88D3
10B NOR 68B2
12B NOR 68B2
12D NOR 1280D31D
02A xxx 19D51J
02C LOS 19D52M
03B NOR 19D52P
04B LOS 19D53D
07A NOR 690711F
09C NOR 890731C
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My 10B on the list (2nd from the top) is Norwood.
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Fixed.
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I cannot say with certainty that it is original to my car, but the shifter that came with it (along with many other original dated parts that were taken off soon after purchase by the original owner) is stamped 29D21C. Will upload a picture shortly once I figure this iPhone out....
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Here's that date code:
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My 69 RAIV Firebird was built 2D and shifter has the typical coding 190423D( Jan of 69). This is the original and includes all orig mounting hardware and linkage.
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That confirms is it a model year format change and the format is not dependent on the vehicle application.
Thanks!!!
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I have a 69 z built 6/24/69 VIN #661208 Hurst shifter #19D42M
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I have a 69 z built 6/24/69 VIN #661208 Hurst shifter #19D42M
Just to be sure, you can assure that is the original shifter to that car, correct?
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Jan shifter in a June car? That's a much larger gap than in any of the others on our list (I think all of which are within a month of car production)...
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Most seem to be within a month or two. There are a couple with 4 to 6 month gaps.
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Mine is super close, a 12D car with a 12-68 shifter. I don't think there is a week given on the shifter code so can't narrow it down further, but my car and shifter are both in the same month of the year so they can't be more than a couple weeks apart.
However, a shifter, or most any other date code spread 2-3 months apart wouldn't worry me much, as long as it's obviously before the car build date.
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Have owned this car since 82, and don't believe it was replaced.
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It seems there are several January shifters in later cars that old eyes couldn't see. There is an 03B, 04B, 06A. So, there must have been a very large batch of January shifters. My 05A Z28 NOR has one, 19D51Q, owned car since April 1979 and prior owners known. Shifter 100% original.
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My 02A 5th from the top is a Norwood car
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My 6A L78 has a 19D43D
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Car Plant Shifter Date
09D LOS 88D3
10B NOR 68B2
12B NOR 68B2
12D NOR 1280D31D
02A NOR 19D51J
02C LOS 19D52M
03B NOR 19D52P
04A LOS 29D21C
04B LOS 19D53D
05A NOR 19D51Q
06A NOR 19D42M
06A NOR 19D43D
07A NOR 69O711F
09C NOR 89O731C
Updated: June 7 2016 (added 'NOR' for Steve's 06A)
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05A Norwood Car
19D35E
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Car Plant Shifter Date
09D LOS 88D3
10B NOR 68B2
12B NOR 68B2
12D NOR 1280D31D
02A NOR 19D51J
02C LOS 19D52M
03B NOR 19D52P
04A LOS 29D21C
04B LOS 19D53D
05A NOR 19D51Q
05A NOR 19D35E
06A NOR 19D42M
06A NOR 19D43D
07A NOR 69O711F
09C NOR 89O731C
Updated: June 19 2016 (added Earl's 05A)
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Here's a little food for thought on the coding witnessed on the shifter bodies.
First let me preface this by telling you that a very good friend of mine has taken dozens (if not hundreds) of shifters out of cars when rebuilding Muncie 4-speeds & Hurst shifter bodies at a specialty restoration shop over the past 30+ years. Two people there had often taken note of the codes on the cases and referred to different prefix numbers as being associated to GM, Pontiac, Olds, etc. (i.e. 1=Chevrolet, 2=Pontiac, 3=Olds and so on so forth). It was also said that the second character likely determined the year, and the third related the month. Apparently the coding was done differently in different years where alpha letters were used for the months of one year while numeric values were used in others.
In recent conversation with Peter Serio, the two of us discussed the coding and batch numbers witnessed on different cases and he is certain that different coding was batched for each motor division and that the prefix is likely the plant code ordering the shifter rather than the month which is what many people are thinking the first character was? For those of you who do not know Pete, he like my friend has been active in the restoration field for many decades. He is widely known for his Hurst Shifter restorations within GTO, Firebird, Camaro circles and has restored hundreds and hundreds of different Hurst shifters. Pete is touted as being one of the best and has restored hundreds of them.
Peter Serio
2719 Columbus Ave.
Columbus, OH 43209.
614-258-3500
He's also written books on shifters. http://precisionpontiac.net/Book_Volume1.aspx
Pete understands many of the differences seen in a shifter body that many people truly don't? In a lengthy discussion, he informed me of many changes seen in the shifter bodies between one motor brand and another, and also educated me on the subtle changes made within a shifter body when GM would send change orders to Hurst facilitating things like reverse lockouts etc. When the new columns came out with locked steering in 69, there were problems where people inadvertently locked transmissions up by getting the shifter to engage reverse and forward gears at the same time. This created many issues and potential lawsuits for GM where changes orders resulted in multiple manufacturing changes within the 69 shifter bodies to correct these issues. He went on the tell me that one cannot always take two 69 Camaro shifter bodies apart and attempt to interchange parts because there were various part changes within most years especially in 69. I told him about the date sequence referred to in this page and he strongly suggested it may not be as many people think?
I know another person in the hobby that takes one look at a shifter body and you can ask him, hey what's that from? He'll quickly answer that's easy, 29D coupled with that particular offset is 69 Poncho out of a Firebird while he can look at another body and spit out out 1967 Big Fat Chev. I have spoken to many people heavily involved in this hobby that know Muncies and Shifters intimately and while most have different opinions on dating/coding, the one thing that has been commonly discussed is how most concur that the first character (at least in some years) is related to the motor division.
Just sharing some of what I have learned from a few who are way smarter than I ;D
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Green NV & Mr Serio, appreciate your insight and experience that gives food for thought. All the dates provided above are supposed to be out of cars that the owners are stating the shifter is the one "born with" their respective car. I have the 12B Nor 68B2 Hurst. By your observation, this is not even a Chevy (1) shifter. So, what is my shifter out of? What would GM division 6 be? Why would it be in my Chevy? And work, fitting the application?
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GreenNV,
You are pretty new here. Did you ever introduce yourself and tell us your background? New insight is always welcome here, just don't try to set the world on fire. Eh?
Your observations are interesting, but don't seem to fit what we have observed in original cars.
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Green NV & Mr Serio, appreciate your insight and experience that gives food for thought. All the dates provided above are supposed to be out of cars that the owners are stating the shifter is the one "born with" their respective car. I have the 12B Nor 68B2 Hurst. By your observation, this is not even a Chevy (1) shifter. So, what is my shifter out of? What would GM division 6 be? Why would it be in my Chevy? And work, fitting the application?
Same coding for my Shifter. The original from a 10B Oct 68 Z, an early car. Reverse lockout does and has always worked flawlessly. I don't see how the shifter could engage 1st and reverse at the same time, but if that could happen, it would be related to the internal rails of the shifter itself, and would be a design flaw unrelated to reverse lockout..
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Looking at the shifters listed in this thread is only but a small sampling of codes out there and pertains to a couple years and perhaps one model only. While you can conceivably think it could be month, year for maybe 68/69, what about all the other years and codes from all the other motor companies where the coding is very different and 8 characters long? Kinda begs you to ask the question doesn't it? That's why I asked Pete, and he doesn't think it's date coding, but actually batch codes.
Example...what are all these zeros about? Month zero then year??? There's gotta be more to this.
(http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1102-51107-imag1062.jpg)
(http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1102-51108-imag1059.jpg)
(http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1102-51109-imag1057.jpg)
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I'll answer your questions when you answer mine. And when you say this is a sampling of a couple of years and perhaps one model only, that is an insightful observation as this is a 1st Gen site and Hurst usage of one model year. So, yes, that is all I am concerned with and all this site is and should be concerned with. Let other makes/models make their own conclusions. You surely cannot deny the facts of the sampling and you are up against some of the best minds in the hobby. We, collectively, are open minded to divergent viewpoints, and do not have our head in the sand. What you propose is not consistent with the evidence. Do you see a pattern from the data that suggests different?
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I believe everyone could be right. It does seem odd to me how some shifters do have extra characters while others don't. And as far as I know there hasn't been a complete breakdown or understanding posted on the site anywhere that I've seen. I don't think it's all completely understood yet. Just looking at the list, mine is the only original shifter on that list with 8 characters.
I tend not to believe the first digit is a model number, nor is the second digit a year in my case. Looking at mine for instance you have to look at the first 3 digits. It's the only shifter in the list that belongs to a December built car. Therefore the only explanation that makes sense to me at this point is looking at both the 1st and 2nd digit together. That looks like a month to me (December) The 3rd digit on mine would be the year (1968)
I have no idea what the "O" is and a pair of D's don't make much sense to me either. But I could make a good guess at the 31 as possibly being the day of the month since my car was built around the last week of December. That's just a guess but it makes the most sense to me at this point.
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I agree with X33 ... as I've stated before. The Hurst code is not ONLY a date code; it makes more sense that it's a Hurst batch code, BUT it does have a 'date' encoded into it (I don't think there's any doubt about that, at least for the Chevy shifters for '69, where we have TOO many examples to ignore. Th fact of a date included batch code makes sense given the warranty issues that would be faced when Chevy sent back to Hurst a malfunctioning Shifter from a 'warranted' car for repair/replacement. Hurst would have a means to determine from only the shifter 'when' it was made and how long any warranty Hurst supplied to Chevy would last.
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I agree with X33 ... as I've stated before. The Hurst code is not ONLY a date code; it makes more sense that it's a Hurst batch code, BUT it does have a 'date' encoded into it (I don't think there's any doubt about that, at least for the Chevy shifters for '69, where we have TOO many examples to ignore. Th fact of a date included batch code makes sense given the warranty issues that would be faced when Chevy sent back to Hurst a malfunctioning Shifter from a 'warranted' car for repair/replacement. Hurst would have a means to determine from only the shifter 'when' it was made and how long any warranty Hurst supplied to Chevy would last.
Without a doubt Gary.
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Not only that, but those stamped numbers would had to have had successive coding for versions of the same shifter series. Pete Serio told me of at least 3-4 changes in the 69 model year alone due to all the change orders GM sent to Hurst regarding the column lock and the changes that brought throughout the year. I would bet one of those characters in the stamp is the series for revisions. I'd guess it was the first because of the 1/2/3 but then why the 6 or 8's later in the year? Or are there actually other prefixes such as 4/5/6/7 that we simply haven't seen yet.
Here's one from another 69 that starts with a 3.
(http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1402-51205-pa290014.jpg)
So much is still unknown about shifter coding, dates and batch codes or series? It's fantastic to have CRG and its members compiling data such as this, but there's a lot more remaining to be learned before attempting to pull an actual date from this code, or how it can actually be deciphered.
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GreenNV: The one you show fits perfectly with the encoding we've determined (from original '69 cars/shifters). The first (one or two digits) is the MONTH, the 2nd (or third) digit is the YEAR. The one you show is for March of 1969... the following characters/digits are perfectly able to account for 'versions' or 'batches' that seemingly only Hurst knows about at this point in time.. :)
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Generally, at this point, we are looking at codes from 69 Camaro Hurst shifters. I am pretty sure coding changed for 70 and later. Let's try to not muddy the water too much. Let's stick with original Hurst shifters from original 69 Camaros.
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I think you're right Gary. If you look at the first 3 codes on mine (128) December 1968 is the only thing that makes sense. So I believe looking at the shifter posted just above, I agree that would likely be a March 1969 shifter.
Bryon, I have another factory Camaro Hurst that has an original 70 Camaro stick in it. I believe that shifter body is dated very late in the 69 calendar year. Might have a slightly different sequence of numbers if I remember right. I'll leave that out of the conversation for now. But if it becomes crucial to determining any information on numbers/letters and how they might of changed, I'll dig it back out.
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You can dig it out and post if you want. At the beginning I had posted a couple of Pontiac shifter codes.
Other GM divisions were using Hurst shifters several years before Chevrolet.
I just don't want us to lose focus. No we don't understand everything, but I feel we are on the right track with the date codes used for 69 Camaro Hurst shifters.
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I just don't want us to lose focus. No we don't understand everything, but I feel we are on the right track with the date codes used for 69 Camaro Hurst shifters.
Agreed. Why there other formats in non-69 Camaro shifters is not part of this discussion. Showing some examples from other known original shifters is fine, e.g. here is a 68 F-bird 03C shifter.
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Unknown.
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something I noticed over the years working on Hurst shifters
they changed from sliver cadmium plate to black phosphate about 1970 from what I can tell
the aftermarket shifters also changed from sliver cadmium plate to black phosphate
I think HURST worked in the change over a period of time because they had so many different shifters
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Another 69 shifter. This is a restored one I picked up for my 69 build and will be going into my 05A car. I'll need to find some original bolts for this one before mounting it up.
(http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd418/DBL_NKL/My%20Cars/69%20Z28/IMG_3689.jpg)
(http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd418/DBL_NKL/My%20Cars/69%20Z28/Shifter%20Body.jpg)
(http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd418/DBL_NKL/My%20Cars/69%20Z28/Date%20Code.jpg)
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If possible, I would like to see any additional posts be from original cars with original shifters.
Thanks.
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You can delete that post then.
It's one number off the original from my car and thought the more you can learn about dates the better, but I guess this thread is only for original "born with" shifters for the 69 model year only then?
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Well since this is a First Generation Camaro website, and the only Hurst shifters that we are doing research on are from 69 Camaros, yes. That's what we have determined in this thread that we are concentrating on, and we are trying to figure out the stamping codes. Unknown shifters don't help much.
My earlier post was a REQUEST, not a demand.
Thanks.
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Original shifter from 2D '69 Camaro 29D34E
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Here's an original 3138 Hurst that's currently within a late 69 Camaro Z/28 that I recently acquired and thought I would share because it's a late build. Car is a 10E build from early November 69 and it appears the shifter and trans have never been out of the car with original hardware and all linkages including lockout in place. Hope this date codes helps.
(https://i.ibb.co/Jnb4Lxv/020.jpg)
Original transmission, shifter and bell housing in place.
(https://i.ibb.co/hVqtf7w/IMG-7098.jpg)
Original Muncie M20
(https://i.ibb.co/x6dy6Vh/IMG-7174.jpg)
Stamped 990732M and original to this late 69 car
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Sept 1969 Shifter
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Graeme, great to see you over here as well! Love your new ride! There is a lot to learn from that one.
Buddy
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can you tell if there is rubber on the forward levers on the hole where the shiftier rod is installed ?
the assembly manual looks to show no rubber and used a spring washer but some cars have been found with the rubber on the lever
I have seen both types of forward levers (with rubber and without)
pics show the two types of levers
Firebird and GTO used the levers with rubber also
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Good information Joe. It’s good to see this thread that we started is still active.
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We should add levers to the 1969 shifter report but I'm not sure if the 69 Camaros should have the rubber on them or not
The assembly manual shows no rubber on the levers.
It shows spring washers which are not normally used with rubber
The metal levers are the same with or without the rubber molded on them
1968 and 1969 GTO and Firebird used the rubber coated levers
Some original looking 1969 Camaros have shown up with the rubber on the levers
not sure if the rubber ones were sold as service parts or something
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I have the rubber on my early 69Z, and wasn't sure it was original since I hadn't seen them before, until this thread appeared. One issue I have is while everything appears to be original, my reverse shift rod appears that it is the right shape, but a couple inches shorter than the ones shown here. Can anyone measure theirs for me?
(With the alignment pin in the linkage, I barley have enough threads to get the nut on)
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the Rev lever in my picture measures 3 3/16 in long
also interesting that many original Rev levers I have seen are black oxide and forward levers are silver cad plated
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opps you asked for the revese rod
mine measures 8 5/8 long and is stamped 5771
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Graeme, great to see you over here as well! Love your new ride! There is a lot to learn from that one.
Buddy
Thanks Buddy. I always drop in here to fact check things and see what's going on every once in a while, but I'm mostly on sYc. Both are great sites.
JoeC...
Here are a few pics I grabbed when the car arrived a couple weeks ago. Not the best pics but clearly, there are no rubber insulators on the shift levers on this 10E car.
(https://i.ibb.co/jZgxSXB/IMG-7099.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/4fZGCKq/IMG-7098.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/MD0CSS0/IMG-7097.jpg)
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And here is a close up of the shifter legs and the original rubber insulators.
(https://i.ibb.co/zZJWLLN/IMG-7379.jpg)
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opps you asked for the revese rod
mine measures 8 5/8 long and is stamped 5771
Thanks Joe. What month was the car produced? I only ask because looking at reply 88 from Green NV 10E car, his rods have a lot of thread showing after the nuts.
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I don't have the car , just have the shifter
it is a June 1969 date code
it looks all original and complete
it does not have the rubber on the levers
even has the original alloy ball
don't forget that you can adjust the shifter forward or back because the lower shifter bolt on the mount plate is in a slot.
that will make your rod adjustment longer or shorter
if you have a console , you may not have much room to adjust it
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Ok just got some more info.Crawled under the car and cleaned up the linkage enough to get the date code:
10B Los Angles car
date: 8 8 D 4
I also see the part number 3138 on the front.
So it seems to line up ok date wise, based on the other examples
Joe, no console, and I see your point on the adjustment plate.
So measuring my rod, I am only getting 8 3/8, and I do not see a part number on it. Looking at your pic my rod looks slightly different.
Could the rods have been different for the early cars?
(fyi I only have the rubber on the linkage, I don't see any rubber grommets on my trans shifter key ways.
Also all my rods are held with cotter pins. When did hurst start using the spring clips?
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I have not seen different length small block rods
big blocks rods are different length
was yours cut off or ground down on the end?
the Hurst spring clip was out well before 1969
The spring clip should not be used with a rubber bushing
the rubber bushing used a flat washer
the levers with no rubber used a flat washer and a spring washer
see the assembly view in the CRG Shifter report here
http://www.camaros.org/shifters.shtml
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Thanks I have read that page a while back. While my rod does not exactly look like yours, when I went back to the shifter page it does look spot on to the one pictured, ( slight angle on the trans side of the rod pin mount) and as the research article says some did not have part numbers stamped in them.
I also assume you mean no rubber, flat washer spring clip.
So since the transmission side of the linkage does not have rubber on the shifter key ways, did any of these get the steel shifter bushings and spring clip?
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I also assume you mean no rubber, flat washer spring clip.
no, I do mean spring washer not a spring clip
the 1969 assembly drawing shows the trans levers with no rubber used a spring washer, a flat washer , and a cotter pin
the shifter levers with rubber used a flat washer , and a cotter pin
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Yes that it what I have seen too Joe. Flat washer and cotter pin on those with rubber - most common with GTO shifters.
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thanks Joe I will review the AIM
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Car Plant Shifter Date
09D LOS 88D3
10B LOS 88D4
10B NOR 68B2
12B NOR 68B2
12D NOR 1280D31D
02A NOR 19D51J
02C LOS 19D52M
03B NOR 19D52P
04A LOS 29D21C
04B LOS 19D53D
05A NOR 19D51Q
05A NOR 19D35E
06A NOR 19D42M
06A NOR 19D43D
07A NOR 69O711F
09C NOR 89O731C
Updated: Nov 12 2019
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My 06A Z28 shifter is 19D51C, Owned the car since 1974, and the rod clips are flat type clips, not hurst spring type or cotter pins.
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Build date: 03B
Shifter code: 19D52P
/quote]
Build date: 02A
Shifter code: 19D51J
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The date Code on my shifter is 19D51J from a 02A Z/28
My 02A Z/28 is Norwood car shifter 19D51J
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Here's the info on my '69 Z and shifter. Am the 2nd owner since Nov of '79. Knew the 1st owner very well and helped him order the car, including the 4.88 axle ratio via the COPO system. The car's block/fitted pistons were replaced under warranty in the spring of '70 due to a loose wrist pin retainer scoring a bore. After getting the car back from the dealer, the 1st owner removed the engine/trans and prepped the car for drag racing (decked the "CE" block, honed extra piston to wall clearance, changed the 4.88 gear to 5.38, etc., etc.) I helped re-assemble the engine and get the car back together. The car ran 113 MPH at Van Wert Dragstrip in NW Ohio but didn't ET well -- my friend weighed 300 lbs and did not have the assistance of Bill Jenkins building/tuning the engine and chassis, like his hero Dave Strickler had. The car was not licensed or driven after 1972 and sat until I circled back to buy the car in '79. All of this is not proof of the shifter being original to the car, but with the M22 and rear axle being original to it, one does wonder. Shifter attachment bolt heads can be seen in the attached photo -- do they appear as the correct fasteners? I'm asking as both the engine and trans had been taken out of the car at least twice (once by dealer in early '70, once by 1st owner in mid-summer of '70) before my purchase in '79. I've done it at least twice since then.
Many thanks to everyone who helped make, and continue to make, this forum the remarkable reference site it is. I "found" it only just recently and promptly joined, and have already benefited greatly from the knowledge contained throughout the site. My interest in learning more about my car runs in spurts, having owned it for so many years. Right now, I'm definitely in the middle of another "spurt!" Thanks again.
05E NOR Build
19D51Q Shifter code
3138 Stamping appears on front of shifter body
Shift levers have the molded in rubber style inserts
Shift rods attached via curly round wire (aka Hurst?) spring clips without any washers
P9E14C Stamped trans code (VIN stamp matches car VIN)
3950318 Trans metal ID tag
BX 0429 G2 E Axle code stamping on tube
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My 1969 Van Nuys Z28 02A has its original shifter and the stamping on the body is 19D33D