CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: abiddle on March 02, 2016, 08:24:08 PM
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Before I spend $400 buckaroos to rechrome my rear bumper, is there any way I can ID it as an original? The brackets and bolts are definitely original, but that doesn't mean hoohah. I'm questioning everything now...
Thanks - Andy
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Is the center bracket riveted to the bumper?
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Ughh. When I say No rivets, I assume that means I have a repro? I've attached a picture of the bumper and bracket.
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It's obvious the bracket was riveted in place. My guess, the bumper is original.
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I can't tell you if it's original or not, but agree with William it looks to be original. For reference, here's what the rivets look like. Your's could have been drilled out for re-chroming purposes.
(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t478/jwlittooy/Chrome%20and%20Bumpers/Bumper%2013_zpszvkl2uss.jpg) (http://s1061.photobucket.com/user/jwlittooy/media/Chrome%20and%20Bumpers/Bumper%2013_zpszvkl2uss.jpg.html)
(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t478/jwlittooy/Chrome%20and%20Bumpers/Bumper%2015_zpsjoc3prem.jpg) (http://s1061.photobucket.com/user/jwlittooy/media/Chrome%20and%20Bumpers/Bumper%2015_zpsjoc3prem.jpg.html)
(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t478/jwlittooy/Chrome%20and%20Bumpers/Bumper%2012_zpsbzpwknvi.jpg) (http://s1061.photobucket.com/user/jwlittooy/media/Chrome%20and%20Bumpers/Bumper%2012_zpsbzpwknvi.jpg.html)
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And it appears you can buy reproduction rivets - just not sure where you can get them pressed in:
http://www.heartbeatcitycamaro.com/store/product/14044/Camaro-Rear-bumper-bracket-rivets-pr-1967-1968-1969/
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And it appears you can buy reproduction rivets - just not sure where you can get them pressed in:
http://www.heartbeatcitycamaro.com/store/product/14044/Camaro-Rear-bumper-bracket-rivets-pr-1967-1968-1969/
Hans and everyone, those rivets do not look correct to me for what my rivets looked like or have observed on other cars. Maybe I'm missing something! As you mentioned Hans the big deal is finding a press big enough. I'm in that boat now as we have original looking rivets but have to press in after our bumper was re-chromed.
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My rivets look like that. I wonder if they varied throughout production...
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Hans and everyone, those rivets do not look correct to me for what my rivets looked like or have observed on other cars. Maybe I'm missing something! As you mentioned Hans the big deal is finding a press big enough. I'm in that boat now as we have original looking rivets but have to press in after our bumper was re-chromed.
I have an original 1968 rear bumper with the riveted bracket and the backside is not flat as shown on the 69 bumper. But I would not assume all rivets are identical. I'll have to dig through old bumper stock to see what I can reference for 69.
Another reason to save every parts car and POS that comes along and toss it into inventory.
Hans L rivets look factory to me.
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Hans and everyone, those rivets do not look correct to me for what my rivets looked like or have observed on other cars. Maybe I'm missing something! As you mentioned Hans the big deal is finding a press big enough. I'm in that boat now as we have original looking rivets but have to press in after our bumper was re-chromed.
I have an original 1968 rear bumper with the riveted bracket and the backside is not flat as shown on the 69 bumper. But I would not assume all rivets are identical. I'll have to dig through old bumper stock to see what I can reference for 69.
Another reason to save every parts car and POS that comes along and toss it into inventory.
Hans L rivets look factory to me.
I'm assuming Chick is referring to the HBC reproductions not the rivets on the bumper pics I posted above. Regarding the rivets shown in the pics I posted - I have no reason to believe they are not factory originals.
I'd also assume that whatever press is used, the pressed rivet result may not always look the same. There is quite a bit a variability just between the two on my bumper.
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Chick, Is it a known fact that the factory rivets in these bumpers were installed COLD. If so, then a big press would be needed to simulate the process. My curiosity of this process is because of my affiliation with restoring and collecting antique John Deere tractors and rivets this size are installed red hot with a smaller press or a pneumatic rivet squeezer. Works like a charm. In this application, I would think that the rivet after installment would have to be hand painted to protect or clear coated. I would not think that this process would harm the chrome or the light housing. Just a thought.
Bryan
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Compare the weight of it with a known original. If it's significantly less, I'd say it's a reproduction. I compared 68 rear bumpers a few years ago and found some repro's weighing over 2 lbs less than an original. Now if it weighs about the same, there's no guarantee it's an original as I believe some repros MAY be of the same gauge steel. If that's the case, and it fits good, use it ! ;)
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It's obvious the bracket was riveted in place. My guess, the bumper is original.
Hi William - sorry I don't understand how its obvious this was riveted. When I took the bracket off, it was held by bolts. Are the reproductions held by bolts? I knew at some point the bumper had been removed from the car because several of the stainless headed bolts were loose.
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Compare the weight of it with a known original. If it's significantly less, I'd say it's a reproduction. I compared 68 rear bumpers a few years ago and found some repro's weighing over 2 lbs less than an original. Now if it weighs about the same, there's no guarantee it's an original as I believe some repros MAY be of the same gauge steel. If that's the case, and it fits good, use it ! ;)
Yep it fits good. But I don't want to spend $400 rechroming a reproduction, when I can just get another reproduction for far less. I don't mind fixing an original, I don't want to fix a repro.
Does anyone have a repro off the car they can weigh? I know its not a definitive answer to being original. I guess from the discussion there are no stamps.
Thanks - Andy
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Hi William - sorry I don't understand how its obvious this was riveted. When I took the bracket off, it was held by bolts. Are the reproductions held by bolts? I knew at some point the bumper had been removed from the car because several of the stainless headed bolts were loose.
Many years ago I was involved with a Camaro parts business. In addition to the demands of the business we had our own personal project cars to deal with. There were few repro parts back then; just about everything came from GMPD. Bumpers were serviced without the center bracket. We had a machine shop make up a few dozen bolts with heads that resembled the factory rivets. So I cut off more than my share of original brackets. Yours happens to look exactly as I remember.
Just my opinion for what it is worth. Not engraved in marble.
A few memories of bumpers. By the late ‘80s GMPD service bumpers were of poor quality. The nickel wasn’t polished very well; scratches and grinding scars were obvious. The plating had no brilliance at all, much like flash-chromed air cleaner lids. For some time ’69 rears were missing one bolt hole. Beware the ‘NOS’ bumper. Or any late ‘80s GMPD part.
I recall the first shipments of repros. While the quality seemed much better they were tightly encased in bubble-wrap. The wrap abraded the plating in transit. So there were bubble wrap spots all over them. I'm sure that has been resolved.
In my 40+ years of the hobby I have seen chrome plating vary widely in initial quality and long-term durability. A bud had a shop in town do the bumpers on his ’57 years ago. Not only did they do a lousy job, buffing through the chrome in a few places today they are badly pitted despite climate-controlled storage. Make sure the shop you are using is experienced in chroming large parts. And skip the show chrome.
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Just my opinion for what it is worth. Not engraved in marble.
Thanks William - your and the other CRG member opinion is always worth plenty. That's exactly why I'm on this site everyday, reading most of the posts and trying to learn what I can - even when its about topics not related to mine. I'm pretty sure this site alone has increased the value of thousands of restorations.
Thanks Hans also for the detailed pics. There is a line that crosses through the rivet hole on both sides which caught my eye in your pics, and I took the same pic of this on mine. No proof that repros don't have this same line, but maybe something like this may be a subtle difference between an original and a repro.
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Compare the weight of it with a known original. If it's significantly less, I'd say it's a reproduction. I compared 68 rear bumpers a few years ago and found some repro's weighing over 2 lbs less than an original.
Unless the latest repros have got heavier (which is a possibility), the weight is a good way to determine GM or not. I weighed my 69 rear bumper when this came up in a similar thread several years ago. Will have to see if I can find that thread and provide the URL.
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Unless the latest repros have got heavier (which is a possibility), the weight is a good way to determine GM or not. I weighed my 69 rear bumper when this came up in a similar thread several years ago. Will have to see if I can find that thread and provide the URL.
I couldn't find any info on this topic. I don't know if I'm just not good at searching, but it wouldn't be the first time I missed pertinent information on a topic. But if you find it, or anyone has a known original off their car, it would be great to add to this thread. I weighed mine at 11lbs 10oz. (stripped of all brackets and bolts). This would either be original or an older repro from > 15 yrs ago.
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Compare the weight of it with a known original. If it's significantly less, I'd say it's a reproduction. I compared 68 rear bumpers a few years ago and found some repro's weighing over 2 lbs less than an original.
Unless the latest repros have got heavier (which is a possibility), the weight is a good way to determine GM or not. I weighed my 69 rear bumper when this came up in a similar thread several years ago. Will have to see if I can find that thread and provide the URL.
Hi Tim....found a thread over on TC that you initiated about bumper weights. Here tis....http://www.camaros.net/forums/34-restoration-corner/273385-69-rear-bumper.html (http://www.camaros.net/forums/34-restoration-corner/273385-69-rear-bumper.html)
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[quote
I couldn't find any info on this topic. I don't know if I'm just not good at searching, but it wouldn't be the first time I missed pertinent information on a topic. But if you find it, or anyone has a known original off their car, it would be great to add to this thread. I weighed mine at 11lbs 10oz. (stripped of all brackets and bolts). This would either be original or an older repro from > 15 yrs ago.
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That seems awful light for a 69 bumper. This is an original 68 rear. Center bracket has been removed, I just stuck the rivets back in there, IIRC. :-[ 69 bumpers are wider of course.
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That's the one, thanks Jerry!
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Yes after reading that thread on weight, a 69 should be 16+ lbs - no brackets. Mine weighs only 11+ lbs. So I'm looking for an original bumper core I guess, I'm certainly not spending money to rechrome this one. :-[
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And it appears you can buy reproduction rivets - just not sure where you can get them pressed in:
http://www.heartbeatcitycamaro.com/store/product/14044/Camaro-Rear-bumper-bracket-rivets-pr-1967-1968-1969/
Hans and everyone, those rivets do not look correct to me for what my rivets looked like or have observed on other cars. Maybe I'm missing something! As you mentioned Hans the big deal is finding a press big enough. I'm in that boat now as we have original looking rivets but have to press in after our bumper was re-chromed.
I was WRONG on that one as they do have those lines. Mine due to rust and other I've looked at did not appear to have them and I thought they were more a smooth finish but not correct. But mine that I drilled out sure seemed like a smooth finish but again appears they did have a very slight rings.
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Relief! Thanks for verify Chick. Let us know if you find a place to press in the rivets.
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I bought an NOS bumper off ebay which arrived today. the GM parts sticker is legit, but I'm sure it could have been moved from an original bumper. 12.5lbs. Wonder if I've been swindled... :-\
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Great discussion. One question I have is there anyone out there that can straighten a rear bumper for a 69 camaro?
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Just google Automotive bumper rechroming you'll get some hits. The companies have a jig they use to straighten the bumpers before rechroming. If you attend any of the large swap meets usually there are rechomers that bring bumpers they have already rechromed for resale.
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I just had a '68 front and rear bumper re-chromed from Electro Plating of El Paso in El Paso Texas and they did both bumpers for around $400.00 and very nice work!
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Try these guys if you need a core - last time I checked they had a bazillion cores, will quote plating based on your core or they can furnish in some cases. The pic is from their web page, go to the price list page to see the expanded frame. Buncha metal - no wonder the magnetic north is shifting.
https://www.tricityplating.com/
Not cheap, but excellent quality. They used to bring a big trailer loaded with ready-to-go bumpers to the Nashville AACA swap meet, but I guess the trek and volume ended that. Lead times are long, but the work is very good, or used to be. It's been a few years -
Regards,
Steve