CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: firebird 1 on February 24, 2016, 03:23:47 AM
-
Hi to everyone in camaro land . I have had many cars in the past. I 'm currently working on my z 28 . I've completely restoring the car and ran into some number's that are confusing. THe driver's side fender was removed and there was a 436 number in white chalk. The second thing was a black x on the top of the cowl.
The X is about 1' x 6' long . Can any body help? I have been reading on the web site here and I figure there are some very very smart people here.
-
Can you post pics?? If not email them to me and Ill post them. cook_dw"at"hotmail.com
replace "at" with @
-
Hi, i will get them as soon as i get back from Scottsdale. It will be a while.
-
My Vannuys car has 415 under the drivers fender ...
-
Usually the number relates to car running number for that day of production IIRC.. But there was one that I remember that had 427 on the fender extensions which could have been the engine since it was a COPO or just dumb luck on the car number for the day.. I'm sure someone will confirm or correct me.. It's too early in the morning and my brain is still asleep..
The "X" on the cowl is what I'm more interested in.
-
FWIW I have seen color indications on 69 VN firewalls, they have always been a numerical code vs written out colors for Norwood, I believe this is due to VN being a multi line plant.
Here is an early 1 owner unrestored 69 Z28. there is a 71 on the firewall behind the engine vs LBlue
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HRB2nocFOPgz1g7Dkvlvpeym8Ty6fABCvmA5oQday9TeRKzy6fiTmhRG7qXPn53lmG1xDcHQ8YCx8O_LqolVYmLZDFqaIRcQU_wMK-u2K2NZSee8nSkSKuFzpMTbe_Huyk-egHiaM5OXSYBh_k3VRTKe75oJFLorwPkgn2pQH5nQFDTT0STUpZFyKYDY01LcMbj2TR6quQEdSY80YUaIQrRpyV84kq_l6Of_qRoVRpa6mZO1ImRDJXC-TK-OPsm62Td3aWz9Z8Am0oZwQJ1d51f_Zphl9_W_lhu4CVkneKyKgezmYx0eU4EejasLUsewiXXndyASR3WmN303WOL7P4YNcX0dcABv3-rVN6y7RwtFc-S5qccwfQ6Ih5O7fPRndNO7t-NOJhGYxjZV2clvzf219uuH58g0D3mTIOXmsVuGpPY-SRXB_w90Lgrz8_d34TLPR5Q_0DmF-7NDZ7kJ8vugk5xIJchvFboZIDpyrUWauKxZ1dPX5SQJElIUCZ4c0b_EjpMGmTGy5L4Ne2LdAx4ln4hEt9Vx2MwPFb0OcoI8Fs9vTXFjQkI6XN5LclcLs-Ti=w1219-h915-no)
-
James, can you tell if the 71 is over the firewall blackout or could it have been on the bare metal and the grease pencil caused the black to not adhere?
-
OVER the black and written in yellow....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/h1vWBWO9VFhmPc29pO4fgID9F4BFQzU2UvB_KwI2c7GGORPBiydu7XtXxLcte0XkALkWRiNsKscwn3x7tKBESD1a2BOsZt7RSAfOxOns7BGRDD2lXcBrJ_dLCvdv4VYea-muakC5tkVEXgIog--4-eS3qcJwK23usD82zEwHWX9CMgceAAP_gbgIP1Xt_Vyi4ye1utNyOUNeDHYQmDt7E7Pyqrfmmzf15cX5MmLuIk0Zk4s-isoL9vxQ3Mrvp2QBwvhBfke0O9vIXUq0DsLK0aMw4sJUXdGSi5yOBNXzhAaMiqZJw-eyU9LhotxtkzYYLZMIXWYBAj_PMMG-XH2Hpfajgr8Aa_TBe34sbGWdz9mgzD1nZPmzXvsRNoUwaRZv2-De6H0moKDbFFIusNY3TFRBe23_ieE5qB7oHv5Af7Ck-KL-rDj7bluq8PvtIgFNu-_YQg43y3kC6VX3y1Hxtw2gQC15d0vk-2zs8Zvp1qY2eN9-oJxdNp2ROF7op1aXkATNTkVW4WvcZ9527U7K8sv4dsI1Vp-kvoxkABtEPyk_9Dp7PpnGj6vd6gkw9p0fGGT-=w906-h693-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HeWvo-Sx1blnSopD1po2XIo1GgTWrDHCVwOKHhIOiV7-A411cAmeVKza-YgszLKG0Qix91EAnsE1G9k0b04SFzu_33vlBgYEOqCvrFmErf0nE6I-cBbikm6sjS34saq33UfzedC8V_7ktNHh0NpPhor0fXRgFS3mLNYWGWjf3khpUqQcxhztwuHLqrGPPjsOgkJ-7aKcqnR360mA7IZOKzbqb3T8a4cBH4VA4rPXXSMo8r58CtDQd6iNzhgEEGKf3dTbViXfoiX7wysXybVYDhfgVq2bjbX4nbv5rRROyhzIT85deAXAbnA5Ko_AzBU7Au3mXUMkOel7dW-Udl3RVwxrnkWCyWC6T-IQe0ctF1XtnxZdnxwWQm3mzP4_H0WWk9n0Rq0NHhUBsz3moAjHelwtU0krvb5hgJodbjDnbYbhWffiowwUyvdm5338GvkuHFxsZV08Cggzs5ZL6MFArTI-4KEkuimQufG1J9X1CFwygCO5XPb6gvjf51wKjlr2rn8bUdFHOBlYhwN_BvGa5Gx9uS-I7xQWCu44C9cIFh3O2kNVNU2IoqutxDJfNyWhhq7b=w1219-h915-no)
-
From my personal observations the numbers/letters on the fender extensions relate to the fender piercings.
I have seen more Z28's with G on the fender extension than I can recall... G is the body broadcast engine code for Z28.
I have seen multiple RS/Z's with RG on the fender extensions.
-
My 70 formula from Van Nuys is consistent with what James states. Color code of the car written in yellow grease pencil on top of the firewall black out.
-
thank's every body for the quick response. I have my body and paint man looking for the pics and will submit asap
-
Whoops nice car, I do have a pic of the tank sticker(or whats left of it. I will send picks
-
Here is a pic that was sent to me. Hopefully more will come..
-
Others
-
More
-
thanks man , I'll send you more when they get here . that white piece of paper is what i found when i magnified the tank sticker.
-
Just an FYI my LOS Oct 68 built 69 LM1 had this marking behind the heater/ac suitcase. I removed the inner half since the exhaust manifold had lifted up and busted it , so I replaced it and found these marks. I did not remove the outer half so the numbers are not completely visible. Any guesses as to what the numbers are and their meaning? My VIN is L505849 . Here is trim tag and firewall numbers.
(http://www.carsbyjim.com/storage/UnderHood/69ACfirewallHole.jpg)
(http://www.carsbyjim.com/storage/69RStrimTag1.JPG)
-
James, interesting observation on the yellow crayon on top of the firewall blackout. Why would they need to do that, as the car would have been painted body color by the time that was written?
-
James, interesting observation on the yellow crayon on top of the firewall blackout. Why would they need to do that, as the car would have been painted body color by the time that was written?
That was kinda my logic too.. Meant to reply but forgot.. ::)
-
I wouldn't know why, but there are other yellow grease pencil markings on my bird that are on top of the blackout, including a date on the bottom of the hood (not sure why that would be necessary either) but interesting none the less. Van Nuys was still practicing this in 1970 (opposite of Norwood practice). James may have an idea as to why.
-
The color indication written on the firewall was BEFORE color coats.
-
The color indication written on the firewall was BEFORE color coats.
James you mentioned previously that the yellow crayon was over (on top of) the firewall paint, so are you saying that LOS GMAD applied the firewall blackout before the main body color, therefore opposite to NOR (per the Assembly Process article)?
-
The color indication written on the firewall was BEFORE color coats.
James you mentioned previously that the yellow crayon was over (on top of) the firewall paint, so are you saying that LOS GMAD applied the firewall blackout before the main body color, therefore opposite to NOR (per the Assembly Process article)?
I can only tell you what I have observed. I have limited LA data as there are so few LA cars on the East coast.
I will be out West in the next month where there are a few unrestored LA cars whrere I can get a better feel for it.
However, from what I see the punchings and piercing indications are on the firewall before ANY PAINT then the color indications are directly before color coats.
-
James,
What event are you attending next month?
Victor
-
The build sheet does indicate a Z28.
CU
CH
15" wheels
-
No event going out to a customer's who has 5 survivors to do some work and take photographs... a yenko L78 conv Z28's all unrestored.
I am planning on going to Amelia Island March 11th before... the 68 Penske Camaro will be rolling across the auction block.
-
Just for reference, my 04B Van Nuys Z also has grease pen markings on the drivers side cowl area. It was applied after paint. I didn't find any other markings on the firewall.
(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t478/jwlittooy/Engine%20Bay%20-%20When%20Purchased/2164941080_zpscbzfsqty.jpg) (http://s1061.photobucket.com/user/jwlittooy/media/Engine%20Bay%20-%20When%20Purchased/2164941080_zpscbzfsqty.jpg.html)
(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t478/jwlittooy/Engine%20Bay%20-%20When%20Purchased/2164941102_zps8qfzwdm3.jpg) (http://s1061.photobucket.com/user/jwlittooy/media/Engine%20Bay%20-%20When%20Purchased/2164941102_zps8qfzwdm3.jpg.html)
-
.. a yenko L78 conv
8 or 9?
If a 68 could you see if the owner wants to add his data to my list?
-
Hans my 04A LOS car has numbers in that exact same spot. I don't have photos to hand but from memory it was '948', so probably a production number rather than anything relating directly to body color. The '71' on top of the firewall blackout of a Lemans Blue LOS car is a real puzzle to my understanding of the assembly process.
-
I don't understand the reasoning myself as it doesn't make much sense with the known assembly practices but I'm aware of several Van Nuys cars with the paint code on top of the firewall blackout like this, including one of my own being a 70 model, which tells me they were doing this for quite some time considering the handful of 69's I've seen this way.
-
FYI, as a side note, on the early L.A. cars the left trim tag rivet, covers the first number of the body date code. I have not seen this on NOR. 69's
-
My 69 VN's numbers on the left side are 871. It was built 3rd week of March. It also has another marking that was partially erased that I can't quite make out. It looks like TN or since it is a Z11 it could have something to do with that.
http://postimage.org/image/mas3nifp7/?_ga=1.210182933.1864497272.1454646028
http://postimage.org/image/832eyv30b/?_ga=1.196093612.1864497272.1454646028