CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: ko-lek-tor on January 27, 2016, 03:15:22 AM
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28-/141888277610?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2109334c6a:g:st0AAOSwFqJWiwzm&item=141888277610
"The numbers are hidden so this car doesn't get black listed by the Forums. "
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There certainly is some truth in his concern. But I don't see it getting black listed if the firewall assembly is kept intact with the VIN, hidden VIN and trim tag and replacement body sections added around it. That would be no different than if a new car today was hit on the side and the rear clip was removed and a replacement welded onto it.
Just my 2 cents,
Mike
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pretty far gone. I cant see that firewall welded to a new body. alot easier to change tags. he says you know what the firewall is good for
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I would hang that tail panel in shop as wall art....looks like it fell right off the car as it was being loaded.
I am watching it. Thanks Bentley
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Can you imagine the feeling when you research that "all-original, numbers matching" Z28 and see a picture of this?? This isn't right, and he knows it!
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I'm glad he's selling it because it looks like an awesome car and could be a really cool (but very costly) project. I think it has a pretty cool story line right here with these old pictures. And I could be interested in a project like this if I had the body shop skills, trying to salvage whatever is possible and using new parts for the rest.
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So what's a guess on the reserve? 15K?? :o
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Seeing where that car was in those pix... my thought was 'that car was probably stolen, wrecked, driven to the woods, and parts stripped off it'.. and left.. (many many rusting years ago!).. :)
I doubt any one who might buy that.. pile of rust'.. would build a car around the firewall; as someone else said, it would be too easy for them to move the cowl tag to another car to flip it... :(
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So what's a guess on the reserve? 15K?? :o
The BIN is $7500.00 ;)
Paul
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I looked at the pics, I don't think it was stripped at all. I see emblems and seats and all kinds of parts that have value. I believe the "wrecked and parked" story, but I could be convinced otherwise I guess... :)
In all seriousness, I think this car could have a decent reconstruction story. Starting with these pics, an album of what was saved/refurbished and what was rebuilt from new parts. With an honest reconstruction story, I think this car could have some resale value, if that was the intention of the project. For someone who wants a Z28, it wouldn't be all original but I think I could feel good about it myself if I owned it.
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I looked at the pics, I don't think it was stripped at all. I see emblems and seats and all kinds of parts that have value. I believe the "wrecked and parked" story, but I could be convinced otherwise I guess... :)
In all seriousness, I think this car could have a decent reconstruction story. Starting with these pics, an album of what was saved/refurbished and what was rebuilt from new parts. With an honest reconstruction story, I think this car could have some resale value, if that was the intention of the project. For someone who wants a Z28, it wouldn't be all original but I think I could feel good about it myself if I owned it.
I never thought of it from that angle. I need to keep a more open mind!
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I looked at the pics, I don't think it was stripped at all. I see emblems and seats and all kinds of parts that have value. I believe the "wrecked and parked" story, but I could be convinced otherwise I guess... :)
In all seriousness, I think this car could have a decent reconstruction story. Starting with these pics, an album of what was saved/refurbished and what was rebuilt from new parts. With an honest reconstruction story, I think this car could have some resale value, if that was the intention of the project. For someone who wants a Z28, it wouldn't be all original but I think I could feel good about it myself if I owned it.
If that car was stolen/stripped early in it's life (late sixties, early 70's), it was not typical to see 'emblems' (you could buy them at the chevy dealer for $5), or seats etc types of things stripped. Typically the thieves took the Muncies, and maybe the engine and differential. It's surprising that the seller has a Muncie to go with that pile, but we've no info saying that's the Muncie that came in the car...
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If that car was stolen/stripped early in it's life (late sixties, early 70's), it was not typical to see 'emblems' (you could buy them at the chevy dealer for $5), or seats etc types of things stripped. Typically the thieves took the Muncies, and maybe the engine and differential. It's surprising that the seller has a Muncie to go with that pile, but we've no info saying that's the Muncie that came in the car...
He's covered the partial VIN on the muncie in that pic, so I beleive the VIN matches the car like he says in the auction (otherwise he wouldn't be covering it, and would need to admit it wasn't original to the car). I'm still thinking this was a wreck and park, I'm buying his story because pieces would go missing over the many years after being parked if it wasn't being watched/owned. He also knows the second owner from when it was wrecked, so I guess the story could be verbally supported by the person he bought it from? I'm still interested, maybe I should be less trusting. Has anyone taken on a project like this?
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.... Has anyone taken on a project like this?
you mean like.. 'building a car' from nothing'?? Rebuilding this car would be more difficult than that.. :)
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So what's a guess on the reserve? 15K?? :o
The BIN is $7500.00 ;)
Paul
Missed that completely. :o I just remember the yellow Z from several years back that went for something like 12K? But I guess that one was just rusting away, it wasn't wrecked, as I recall.
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Dang you're a fun sucker Gary! I expect my wife to talk me out of fun stuff like this, not fellow Camaro nuts!
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I agree with 'abiddle' about the cars past and would be glad to see it get a home and restoration. Without seeing the cowl structure in person I couldn't say one way or another if replacement panels can be welded to it. But I'm sure we have all seen a Camaro get full rockers, floor boards, roof and other parts welded onto it and resurrected from the dead so this car would be no exception if there was enough solid metal. If he knows the previous owner I wonder if the paperwork can be found for the CE replacement block. It would be nice to have that as proof. Then again, even without the paperwork how can one prove it wasn't a factory replacement for that chassis otherwise if the engine had other period correct components. Anyhow, I would hide VIN and body numbers too if I were ever to sell on eBay or Craig's list. Whoever the new owner may be, it should be their decision if the numbers get put into a web forums registry database or not.
Mike
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I don't agree with some of the posts. His pics back up the story he posted.
124379N64xxxx 57-57 712 05C X77
Trans looks original, P9D28B.
Seller: sidewaz67vette in Salem, VA
Listed this Z28 back in Sept. Have available the complete firewall section. Rest of car rusted pretty bad. As you can see by the pictures the Vin and trim tag are still on the vehicle.I'm the three owner, With history back to the original owner. I bought from second owner who had it from 1975 till Sept of 2015. He totaled the Z back in 1976 and it has set outside ever since. First couple of pictures I took in 1978. It got moved from that spot after several years and that's when the rear end fell out from under it.37 years later I took the next couple of pictures with trees growing up around it and in it!!!! And it was sitting on the ground as you can see rom the pictures.Included in the sale is the original Vin matching M21 transmission, It has been completely gone through and is like brand new.The motor was trashed by first owner who got a CE replacement block from the dealership for the Z. I have the bare block with the 1178 steel crank,Intake,bell housing. The 12 bolt posi traction rear end. The passenger side housing is bent slightly. But it's still the one that came with it. The car had the cowl induction hood with the functional flapper. The complete harness is still intact. It was equipped with center console gauges which I have. The dash is complete with center clock, the correct 8 grand tach.and speedometer with 66,776 miles. The AM radio is still there as is the wood grain dash. I have the front sub frame with the Z steering box etc. This Z also came equipped with an Endura front bumper. Black Custom Deluxe interior.Car was originally Fathom Green.The numbers are hidden so this car doesn't get black listed by the Forums. You hard core Camaro guys know what the firewall is good for. If you are like Graveyard carz you can bring it back. Any ??????? ask em or call 540-355-2267
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That story is not 'unreasonable', except for the fact that if it were "totaled" in 1978, why didn't the owner collect the *totaled* insurance in which case the insurance company would have taken the car, but you say.. what if the owner wanted to "buy back" the totaled car from the insurance company?
Yes, that's possible, but wouldn't most people who felt that way about their *totaled car*, do something with it besides tow into the woods and leave it for 37 yrs??? That's a weird story.. a *totaled Camaro, even a Z28* wouldn't have been worth a lot in 1978, and the ONLY parts (given the engine was a CE) worth anything would be the trans and differential.. yet those parts were left in the car for 37 yrs?? It still doesn't jive for me.... *S* but if you guys wanna buy it and build a car, rather than buy a new body (and build a clone)... have at it.
Personally, I'd much prefer to begin with a new dynacorn or ?? body rather than deal with that pile of crap.. :)
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I remember this same car was discussed at length either here, at Team Camaro or yenko.net when previously listed on eBay. I searched a while but couldn't turn up the thread. Seem to recall there was more to the back story of how the car was wrecked, and possibly involved drink driving? IIRC, someone posted in that thread and suggested that the car be left as it sat in the woods as a reminder to young kids to not D&D, rather than being restored. If anyone else remembers that thread, hopefully we can track it down.
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That story is not 'unreasonable', except for the fact that if it were "totaled" in 1978, why didn't the owner collect the *totaled* insurance in which case the insurance company would have taken the car, but you say.. what if the owner wanted to "buy back" the totaled car from the insurance company?
Quote.."He totaled the Z back in 1976". The payoff in '76 could not of been that much. I have an original Bill of Sale from the second owner of my Z selling to my third owner in 1978. The sell amount was $1700.
I think back then guys had more sentimental value stuck on their daily driver "Hot Rods" than the measly insurance pay-off and just parked them to the side of the house, one day to pull the drive train..which in this story it appears someone did crab the engine from it.
I'd like to find an old Insurance Adjustment book from '76 to see what the value was then.
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Zee-Value was nill to an adjuster back in the day. Nothing says the guy even had insurance. Remember, it was a different time.
Why did he hold onto this hulk? Same reason many of us, me included hold on to stuff way too long because we are eternally optimistic that just around the corner, the time, parts, money will present itself to make our dreams come true.
Gary-Agree, no one cared about seats, emblems,boosters, master cylinders, and the plethora of minutia we obsess over today , back then.
I see the resurrection angle of this project and would have no problem showcasing the demise of the car followed by the grand resurrection, like a Phoenix rising from the ashes. If only that is how it is portrayed. Unfortunately, money grubbers will see it as an opportunity to build, yet, another numbers matching, window sticker toting, genuine 3 owner car.
Intriuging story, I admit. Why did it end up where it sat for so long? If his Old Man was anything like mine, (He hated my "hot-rods") he ordered me to park them way off where he did not have to look at them. Maybe for shame, the old man made the, assuming, kid keep the car as a reminder of his folly aka stupidity. As a kid, he may have hidden it for embarrassment of his reckless behavior. I just don't see why the guy is so secretive about disclosing info & numbers. I like transparency, you know, just like Obama promised when he took office ::).
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Zee-Value was nill to an adjuster back in the day. Nothing says the guy even had insurance. Remember, it was a different time.
Why did he hold onto this hulk? Same reason many of us, me included hold on to stuff way too long because we are eternally optimistic that just around the corner, the time, parts, money will present itself to make our dreams come true.
Gary-Agree, no one cared about seats, emblems,boosters, master cylinders, and the plethora of minutia we obsess over today , back then.
I see the resurrection angle of this project and would have no problem showcasing the demise of the car followed by the grand resurrection, like a Phoenix rising from the ashes. If only that is how it is portrayed. Unfortunately, money grubbers will see it as an opportunity to build, yet, another numbers matching, window sticker toting, genuine 3 owner car.
Intriuging story, I admit. Why did it end up where it sat for so long? If his Old Man was anything like mine, (He hated my "hot-rods") he ordered me to park them way off where he did not have to look at them. Maybe for shame, the old man made the, assuming, kid keep the car as a reminder of his folly aka stupidity. As a kid, he may have hidden it for embarrassment of his reckless behavior. I just don't see why the guy is so secretive about disclosing info & numbers. I like transparency, you know, just like Obama promised when he took office ::).
'Transparency PROMISES' you say??? :)
When my 17 yr old daughter was broadsided in her Saturn SL2 (totaling it) by an LTD, even though it was not her fault .. but to remind her I kept a medium size piece of the *plastic fender or door?* for quite a while.. She kept asking me to throw it out, but I said No. it's a REMINDER.. :) to be careful.. then be careful some more when you are driving!
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The guy I bought my 69 RS/SS from kept the 69 RS that he totaled in 1974 until 1997 or so, when he and I dismantled it. It looked very similar to this Z28, rolled and mangled. He kept it in the barn so it wasn't rusted. He thought he would fix it or something if he got time, possibly. He is a guy that has room to keep tons of stuff because, well, he can. The story of this Z is plausible to me because you never know why someone may me attached to something and keep it regardless of its monetary value or condition. I, too, like to fanaticize that this could be fixed and live to drive again. Silly? Maybe.
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I've lost track of how totaled and smashed cars I've seen in backyards and farms. I still see them and a friend acquires them yearly. Apparently not everyone has this type of exposure to vehicles. A wrecked Buick GS, Cuda and BB Chevelle were pushed in the treelines 35 years ago where grew up.
If a car was bought and paid for, being stuffed in the back yard was no big deal if it got totaled. The use of the word totaled does not mean a car went through insurance. It was very common to swap the tags and drivetrain to a donor car if one came along; nobody cared about hidden VINS decades ago.
If someone wants to bring this car back, go for it. No big deal if you have the resources and inventory.
Does the P.C. Hemi Cuda convertible cowl ring any bells?
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1-28-16: "This listing was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available."
Paul
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Shattered dreams of a z28! I wish my SS would be finished soon, its killing me not being in my garage.
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Shattered dreams of a z28! I wish my SS would be finished soon, its killing me not being in my garage.
I sympathize with you! Mines been gone since 2008. Supposed to be done in March