CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: 69Z28-RS on January 15, 2016, 05:17:29 PM

Title: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: 69Z28-RS on January 15, 2016, 05:17:29 PM: http://www.ebay.com/itm/321971682918?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I don't think these have been available for awhile...?? price seems good without any bids thus far...
1 day left..

No, not mine, and I don't know the seller but thought someone here might be interested.. :) The same seller has a number of NOS parts available for '69 Camaros...
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: x66 714 on January 15, 2016, 10:53:31 PM: Pretty cool. My originals are still on my car @ 160k miles...Joe
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: X33RS on January 15, 2016, 10:59:45 PM: I like that, but mine never had chrome tips originally so technically, even though I like the look, it wouldn't be correct for mine.

Mine still has all the original pipes on it, including the non-chrome tail pipes. It appears the muffler has been changed on mine at some point. Pretty common for Arizona cars, usually mufflers rot from the inside out from exhaust moisture but pipes last for many many years.
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: BULLITT65 on January 15, 2016, 11:42:55 PM: These look nice. I may have to bid on them, I am not sure Bentley is going to part with his set....
He has a early car like Larry (X33RS), so I am pretty sure he is not going to use them, but maybe Bentley is planning on doing another 69 Camaro resto and is starting with the dual exhaust....? ;D

They do have 1 bid on them now, maybe a CRG member?
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: william on January 15, 2016, 11:52:40 PM: Chrome tailpipes are technically correct only for cars built May 19th or later.

The few original exhaust cars known to exist have the chromed 2 pc RH pipe welded to the muffler. The LH pipe is the one piece production part polished and flash-chromed. Maybe had a surplus of LH pipes and had to consume existing inventory.
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: x66 714 on January 16, 2016, 04:22:41 AM: That's how mine are. 08E 1969...Joe
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: HOT3O2 on January 16, 2016, 03:55:57 PM: William, Is it correct to presume that the chrome tail pipes were never an option on the chambered exhaust systems?
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: william on January 16, 2016, 04:41:58 PM: In a letter to dealers, chromed tailpipes were announced a standard equipment revision effective May 19,1969. Option prices for N10, Z27 and Z/28 were increased accordingly.

The same letter notified dealers NC8 chambered exhaust was dropped as an option as of the same date. Orders in the system as of that date would be built with production exhaust. Chambered exhaust never had chromed tailpipes.

An anomaly I frequently see on '69s claiming to be "concourse restored" are incorrect exhaust systems. When the chambered recall was issued November 25, 1968 it stated L34 & L78 cars would now be built with the standard N10 muffler/resonator system. Z/28s received a unique system w/o resonators using the same "deep-tone" muffler used in '68. This was still too loud for certain areas and as of April 15, 1969 Z/28s reverted to the muffler/resonator system.

Despite being well-documented, many of the restored '69s I see, bb or Z/28, have a single muffler/no resonator system. That's never correct for a bb and only correct for a Z/28 built during the aforementioned time frame. Chambered remains possible for cars built prior to May 19th.

How is this handled in judging?
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: X33RS on January 16, 2016, 07:11:19 PM: That is what is on my 12 D Z..... muffler, no resonators, no chrome tips.

Are there chambered systems sold without the chrome tips? Seems all the chamber systems I remember seeing for sale are sold with chrome tips. Technically not correct.
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: abiddle on January 16, 2016, 07:29:37 PM: And is there any way to know if the chambered exhaust NC8 was originally installed on a car? It appears in the assembly manual the hanger assembly is the same for this and the dual exhaust. I still have the original hangers on my 69 SS350.

Thanks - Andy
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: BillOhio on January 16, 2016, 07:37:46 PM: I thought the drivers side frame bracket is longer on the chambered?
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: william on January 16, 2016, 07:52:39 PM: The main hangers for NC8 were unique and are often referred to as "J hooks." They are designed to hook the clamps that secured the front mufflers to the over-axle pipes. The LH tailpipe hanger is also different.

The January 2 dealer ordering info lists NC8 as available only with Camaro SS or special performance equipment. The April 2nd revision states it is only available on Camaro SS with 325, 350 or 375HP engines or with special performance equipment. Only 1,526 production installations making it a rare option.
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: abiddle on January 16, 2016, 08:27:46 PM: I'll never know what was truly on my camaro when it rolled off the assembly line without a build sheet because its an 11C SS350 without codes. But I'm trying to follow the clues the best I can, and I confess to embellishing from there for the options I would have ordered. With an original rear antenna I've removed the spoiler and will re-install the original am radio. So I can't have fm, but I'm adding the 8track player (even though I know there weren't originally any speakers in my kick panels). So I'm cheating the "original" restoration for options I would have ordered myself. Sure I could install the antenna in the front fender and buy an am/fm radio, but somehow that doesn't feel right even though I know I'm adding an 8track player and speakers that were never there.

I doubt it had the chambered exhaust originally, I spoke with both of the original owners/brothers (bought the car together) and they never mentioned a special exhaust. But would I have bought it? I put a Monza muffler on my vw bug in 1985, so heck yeah!!!
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: william on January 16, 2016, 08:54:34 PM: Chambered was not optional until the January 2nd ordering revision. Your car would have been built with the production N10 exhaust system.
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: abiddle on January 16, 2016, 08:59:39 PM: No chambered exhaust for this car then. :D Thanks William - you are wealth of knowledge for this forum of camaro enthusiasts!
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: Boston14 on January 16, 2016, 11:48:59 PM: To me, and maybe it's just me (old and confused), the 1969 assembly manual is confusing. Under N10, A1 shows no resonators, then A2 and A3 picture resonators. Did my 11D 350 SS-RS convertible (which probably came off the line around Dec 6, 1968) originally have resonators or not? All 4 original hangers were intact, but that doesn't tell me what system it had. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: BULLITT65 on January 17, 2016, 12:27:56 AM: Well I am in for $302.....get it?

;)
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: BULLITT65 on January 17, 2016, 12:35:08 AM: Would have sold for $215 if I didn't try to be funny.

Sorry to any CRG guys for costing them more money on this one.... :P

Hopefully they went to a good car, I will have to live with my crooked aftermarket set for a while longer, or until Uncle Bentley is ready to

cut his loose....hahaha
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: abiddle on January 17, 2016, 12:43:31 AM: Wasn't me. I would have went to $350...
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: william on January 17, 2016, 05:27:09 PM: Quote from: Boston14 on January 16, 2016, 11:48:59 PM
To me, and maybe it's just me (old and confused), the 1969 assembly manual is confusing. Under N10, A1 shows no resonators, then A2 and A3 picture resonators. Did my 11D 350 SS-RS convertible (which probably came off the line around Dec 6, 1968) originally have resonators or not? All 4 original hangers were intact, but that doesn't tell me what system it had. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

That's a reference drawing and depicts a '67-'68 with deep-tone dual exhaust. The deep-tone dual exhaust option for '67-'68 eliminated the resonators. Just a poor choice for the '69 Assembly manual. The same drawing in the '67 & '68 manual shows resonators. The standard production N10 dual exhaust system for all three years had resonators.

ZL1 #3 was tested when new by High Performance Cars magazine. The under chassis photos show an N10 system with resonators.
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: BULLITT65 on January 17, 2016, 07:11:17 PM: Was there a test of any of the other ZL-1 cars without the resonators or with the chambered exhaust, to compare performance wise?
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: william on January 17, 2016, 07:18:46 PM: http://www.camaros.org/copo.shtml

Scroll down to the "How much real power" window. Shows what chambered exhaust did to power output.
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: BULLITT65 on January 17, 2016, 07:33:23 PM: Good link, but may not tell the whole story of just the exhaust.
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: william on January 17, 2016, 08:26:29 PM: A ZL1 is an extreme example. I'm sure the cam was designed for open headers. But it is all relative. Chambered was a poor, highly restrictive system. People that have compared both on a chassis dyno claim it was worse than the standard N10 system. Both used small tubing and had too many bends.

Modern aftermarket performance exhaust systems have almost no power loss.
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: BULLITT65 on January 17, 2016, 08:32:21 PM: demand must be somewhat nostalgia driven...
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: Mike S on January 17, 2016, 08:36:04 PM: I must be getting older.......I recently put stock mufflers back on my Harley and ......I want resonators back on my exhaust.
If I can only find them!

Mike
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: JackalsZ on March 22, 2016, 12:57:04 AM: I have a set hanging in the rafters in my garage
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: VINCE Z28 on March 22, 2016, 03:53:24 PM: William, can you tell by the tail pipes if this car had NC8? Car build date 09D 1968 L-78
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: william on March 22, 2016, 04:55:05 PM: Can't tell by the tailpipes; they were very similar. In production the RH pipe was welded to the muffler, whatever it was. The LH pipes had different part numbers.

Z/28, L34 & L78 Camaro SS included NC8 exhaust as standard equipment until the first recall notice November 1968. At that time in production L34 & L78 reverted to the standard N10 muffler/resonator system. Z/28s received an interim system w/o resonators. NC8 became optional. As of April, N10 became the standard Z/28 system. Later in May, Chevy sent a letter to dealers informing them chromed tailpipes would now be included on all cars built with N10 and the msrp increased accordingly. NC8 was dropped as an option at that time.

So, an L78 built September '68 would have had NC8. Really like the P06 trim rings!
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: firstgenaddict on March 22, 2016, 05:20:13 PM: FWIW No SS 350's would have had chambered pipes it was only available with the Big Block's or Z28's.

I know the April date is thrown around often however this is an ACTUAL recall letter for BOTH exhaust systems sent out in August of 1969.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/46wlN_jXvac8rV-TvWuodTegdKGK4X6XO3QXC4c2FLnMgEnsUFKZYg0SJN--8Z5B41LXiHHlnR4JwiIB-YTwXADtRe-BGwlUnOWPfO7oVd8R6LtzIXC6HlNgsGhSfbogG6gNpLALJTHE2iTTwPMp_Gi6eiVo70XHAXlxKAokrcj7uXf7Nirvo600KQMadJyuxvwfU52DMSr0UYVfFbJ7hqMJciHJdUsgoVzVklKIZ-q8P7BJBP4vcbPfdvDn0T9TRMq6zGn05P8tUxBcItoh6nF3XjOG2_p0gUft26FvxVPnb00Mp4ra2svBSDvd68_54YCQqsmfPFPIndnV6VnRcmUWN2h-YjEnnnkiigjKksqPob7tDzFZZ-_6OjbGtsaYWbWF4o0qJ_3m0DSkQBeOaQTSGqBQLz4T45s5txAlTIIHLgdBVp73TckmuHZtRQZi9bpulfAHOAIPE6u-XvdUTFVLv_DjUMh7MkG4xAp3fPIqCXkD4_kcBUoDI0Ba87Y5kYt-8gsi21GdGxLzeqB3TTlgtt5Bjn2wrW7w3ApaixeVC8WAmXhTwkv3ncF1MjsoPBKY=w640-h480-no)
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: william on March 22, 2016, 08:08:47 PM: Hmmm...don't know about that. NC8 first appears as an option in the January 2, 1969 Price Schedule:

"Available only when Camaro SS or Special Performance Package is ordered."

The April 1, 1969 Price Schedule is different:

"Available only when Camaro SS with 325-hp, 350-hp or 375-hp engine or Special Performance Package is ordered."

So looks to be a small window of potential availability for NC8 on an SS 350. Or, Chevrolet may have declined to build the car and later changed ordering info.
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: firstgenaddict on March 22, 2016, 10:04:10 PM: William regarding the SS 350 are you thinking NC8 could have been optional up until Dec 4th then again from Jan to April 1st?
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: william on March 22, 2016, 10:39:04 PM: NC8 was not an option until January 2nd. From then until the April revision it may have been optional on SS350. But it was later excluded for some reason.
Title: Re: 1969 69 Camaro DUAL EXHAUST CHROME TAIL PIPE SET - Original GM - NOS - RARE
Post by: KurtS on March 23, 2016, 04:04:43 AM: I've never seen NC8 documented on an SS350.
Other GM docs suggest that it wasn't available on it, so probably an error on the Jan 2 pricelist.