CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: FortLangleyBC on December 14, 2015, 12:00:48 AM
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EO Z28 is back at auction - estimate $225,000 to $275,000 :o
https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail/FL0116-229945/0/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28/4-Speed/
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So is this an early build? I see AD wheels listed.
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What makes it worth what they are expecting?
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Really?
Who cares if it's for sale again?
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I think it is interesting how often it comes to auction. I wonder if Dana owns it, because I was pretty sure he owned the special paint carolina blue car( they were having trouble getting bids) , and they were trying to get about the same amount for it.
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Really?
Who cares if it's for sale again?
LOL.. When I saw this thread I thought.. Oh no not again..
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I just find it interesting how time seems to change things - a few years ago this car was the subject if extensive debate on the original colour actually being EO, was restored & sold on eBay for $59 k in 2014 & now is on the block for $225k.
I hope any potential buyer knows the history...
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Another interesting thing about the recent authentication of the car is both Jerrys report, and the affidavit of the dealer and original owner. I wonder how you present both those findings without it looking contradictory. Seems like you would have to go with one since there was not an agreement on the color. I think this car will continue to raise eye brows concerning the paint, and price for years to come.
I don't see this car settling in to anyones collection...
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I'm with you on your summary BULLITT :)
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I just find it interesting how time seems to change things - a few years ago this car was the subject if extensive debate on the original colour actually being EO, was restored & sold on eBay for $59 k in 2014 & now is on the block for $225k.
I hope any potential buyer knows the history...
I think for any potential buyer to know the history, all parties involved would have to be present at the auction. Including the original owner, the dealer, as well as Jerry and anyone else involved in this car so they can all put their heads together and let the buyer draw a conclusion. Otherwise I seriously doubt any potential buyer at a big auction is going to know much of anything about the history other than what the auction house discloses. Most older people buying this stuff, including myself, don't spend a whole hell of a lot of time on the computer searching websites and chit chat about this or that. Some people just don't have the time for it, among other things. So even though the car has been talked about on the internet fairly extensively, I'd be willing to bet there is an extremely small percentage of people that know about it.
Neat car though, don't care what color it is really, but it's a real Z and you don't need a bunch of paperwork to back that up (if it's an X-code car). However I would be completely shocked if it brought anywhere near the money they hope to get, because there is nothing special about it other than this controversial color. For that kind of money I could buy a couple of Hemi Cuda's, or 2-3 LS6 Chevelles, or just about anything big block and rare with low production numbers in any brand and still have cash in my pocket. Hell even my SCJ wouldn't bring that kind of money and it's documented through Kevin Marti as one of just a handful. But that's just me I guess.
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I don't think it will bring that kind of money either; that's just sellers/auctioneers trying to get rich off gullible buyers with more $$ than sense at these large tv collector car auctions.. :) The controversy over the 'color' was just that, a difference of opinion between 'evaluators' 45 yrs later attempting to judge what color was sprayed at the factory, and the owner who paid for it to be done, and the salesman who wrote up the order for him. The issue is whether it was actually evening orchid, OR another very similar GM color. There is no issue as to the fact that it was a special order paint (I don't think.. it certainly isn't in my mind as the original owner told myself and several others many years ago that he had special ordered such a car for his wife - JohnZ was involved in that discussion at Carlisle Vettehead tent, many years before the car was found and restored).. :)
I do think it is a very special car due to the 'special order paint' (and the story behind it) which adds some value to its 'restored real Z28' value, but to me that 'extra value' would not be $150K.. :) if you HATE the color, it might even be worth less than an equivalently restored red, orange, or silver car... :)
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124379N546311 btw.
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So this is a fairly early car Kurt.... Thanks for that. It was probably listed I just didn't pay attention.
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So this is a fairly early car Kurt.... Thanks for that. It was probably listed I just didn't pay attention.
Likely built on or about 21 November 1968... so the AD wheels would be correct.
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I'm an 11C with N540222. But I couldn't find any EO paint overspray on mine, my dreams of an early retirement are dashed.
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Save yourself the skepticism, and enjoy the best color produced.... ;)
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I'm an 11C with N540222. But I couldn't find any EO paint overspray on mine, my dreams of an early retirement are dashed.
You have to look under the door glass weatherstrip attached to the roof.. or get an expert to do that for ya?? :)
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So this is a fairly early car Kurt.... Thanks for that. It was probably listed I just didn't pay attention.
Likely built on or about 21 November 1968... so the AD wheels would be correct.
Good info. Mines a 12D car but has YH wheels on it. I wonder when that change over occurred?
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Mid-late Dec is the date range for the change. What are the dates on the wheels?
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If it's any help William I'll dig them back down and see if I can't clean up that area better to read a date. Since we are going to daily drive this thing for while, I removed them from the car for safe keeping and tossed the new tires on some FW's to drive on.
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The current Mecum pictures make the car look more purple than the other pictures i have seen of the car and of other Evening Orchid Impalas I have seen in person. Anyone else notice that?
Previous auction pictures:
https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail/PA0715-224801/0/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28/4-Speed/ (https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail/PA0715-224801/0/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28/4-Speed/)
I see they also omitted the letter from the original purchaser where he told of how his wife was very disappointed when she saw the car and hated the Evening Orchid color. She wanted more like Plum Crazy purple. I have to agree with the wife. Not the best color for this car.
Imagine the estimated value of a Plum Crazy special order!
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William,
I checked one wheel. It appears to be K18 12. On the other side of the stem it's harder to read but it's either 11 or 17, then the YH code. I don't know if the others match or not as far as the date goes but they all have a YH stamp, I'll have to investigate that further. Only have 4, there hasn't been a spare with this car since I've had it.
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The current Mecum pictures make the car look more purple than the other pictures i have seen of the car and of other Evening Orchid Impalas I have seen in person. Anyone else notice that?
Previous auction pictures:
https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail/PA0715-224801/0/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28/4-Speed/ (https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail/PA0715-224801/0/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28/4-Speed/)
I see they also omitted the letter from the original purchaser where he told of how his wife was very disappointed when she saw the car and hated the Evening Orchid color. She wanted more like Plum Crazy purple. I have to agree with the wife. Not the best color for this car.
Imagine the estimated value of a Plum Crazy special order!
Would look better with some black stripes to break it up, and would work better with the vinyl top too.
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Imagine the estimated value of a Plum Crazy special order!
I also thought the applied EO color on the Z28 seemed a little brighter or more intense than I remember.. I suspect that can be attributed to the use of base/clear urethane paints and new formulas compared to the original lacquers.. that seems to happen with a lot of colors nowadays.
Having owned a Plum Crazy (Statutory Grape?) Challenger RT/SE in 1970... I have to say I'd rather try the EO than the plum crazy.. :) on the Z28.. As I understand GM's application for 'special paints' back then, the color chosen would have had to come from another GM color.
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Didn't special colors also have to be from the same year too?
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Perhaps you're not aware. Several years ago this car produced one of the most contentious debates on record. People were suspended and banned because of insulting personal comments directed at those that saw it prior to restoration. Really got ugly.
Let sleeping dogs lie.
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William,
I checked one wheel. It appears to be K18 12. On the other side of the stem it's harder to read but it's either 11 or 17, then the YH code. I don't know if the others match or not as far as the date goes but they all have a YH stamp, I'll have to investigate that further. Only have 4, there hasn't been a spare with this car since I've had it.
One problem with nailing the YH implementation date is there were few Z/28s built late in December. Your wheels have known dates and are likely OE. We now have a level of confidence that 12D Norwood cars did have YH wheels. A bit later at Van Nuys.
Thanks much!
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So it would appear to me that there weren't many Camaros produced with a 12D tag. Am I correct?
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Doesn't appear to be the case. Chevy published the last VIN produced for each month, works out to just over 18,000 cars built in December 1968. The plant was closed the 24th & 25th of course but may have worked a couple of Saturdays. Works out to almost exactly 912 cars per day, the known plant capacity. For whatever reason, not many 12D in our db. Even stranger: 12E.
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Doesn't appear to be the case. Chevy published the last VIN produced for each month, works out to just over 18,000 cars built in December 1968. The plant was closed the 24th & 25th of course but may have worked a couple of Saturdays. Works out to almost exactly 912 cars per day, the known plant capacity. For whatever reason, not many 12D in our db. Even stranger: 12E.
I wasn't aware there aren't many 12D cars in the data base. If you like William, PM an email to me and I'll send you a pic of the data plate and type the vin with it. I'm sure it's not in the data base, it's been sitting nearly 30 years dormant. Shucks when I registered it last week the DMV told me it was purged from the system, haven't had it registered since 87. Maybe from the tag date and the vin, could you possibly hone in on a day the car would have been produced (roughly)?
Why would there be few Z28's built late in December?
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Hard to say. The Chevy dealer I knew said HP cars didn't sell well during the winter months. Most dealers didn't want slow inventory sitting around, didn't order any for stock.
PM sent, thanks!
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I don't think it will bring that kind of money either; that's just sellers/auctioneers trying to get rich off gullible buyers with more $$ than sense at these large tv collector car auctions.. :) The controversy over the 'color' was just that, a difference of opinion between 'evaluators' 45 yrs later attempting to judge what color was sprayed at the factory, and the owner who paid for it to be done, and the salesman who wrote up the order for him. The issue is whether it was actually evening orchid, OR another very similar GM color. There is no issue as to the fact that it was a special order paint (I don't think.. it certainly isn't in my mind as the original owner told myself and several others many years ago that he had special ordered such a car for his wife - JohnZ was involved in that discussion at Carlisle Vettehead tent, many years before the car was found and restored).. :)
I do think it is a very special car due to the 'special order paint' (and the story behind it) which adds some value to its 'restored real Z28' value, but to me that 'extra value' would not be $150K.. :) if you HATE the color, it might even be worth less than an equivalently restored red, orange, or silver car... :)
gary you had better stop posting facts here or you could be banned also. :D
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Clem,
You (and only you) got a temporary ban over this topic last time.
It will be longer this time if you stir the pot again.
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kurt if you post facts here you get banned but if you post your opinion that is OK ??? I don't think that is fair, do you ???
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Clem, you have a huge amount of experience and knowledge that could be beneficial on this site.
But we need to move on. Please don't keep bringing up this topic. It is not productive.
It would be awesome if you could share some information on rebuilding and/or tuning carbs. Maybe in the restoration section.
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Clem, you have a huge amount of experience and knowledge that could be beneficial on this site.
But we need to move on. Please don't keep bringing up this topic. It is not productive.
It would be awesome if you could share some information on rebuilding and/or tuning carbs. Maybe in the restoration section.
I did not bring it up and some posters here like doubting of original owners who show up with paperwork. I think you should dress them down not the original owners. I would think original owners with paperwork would be welcome here. I guess I was wrong.
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Clem,
I'm not going to rehash this with you in any form. Stir anymore on this topic and you are gone. It's that simple.
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I can see both sides of this topic. I think Garys statement :
"I don't think it will bring that kind of money either; that's just sellers/auctioneers trying to get rich off gullible buyers with more $$ than sense at these large tv collector car auctions.. :) The controversy over the 'color' was just that, a difference of opinion between 'evaluators' 45 yrs later attempting to judge what color was sprayed at the factory, and the owner who paid for it to be done, and the salesman who wrote up the order for him. The issue is whether it was actually evening orchid, OR another very similar GM color. There is no issue as to the fact that it was a special order paint (I don't think.. it certainly isn't in my mind as the original owner told myself and several others many years ago that he had special ordered such a car for his wife - JohnZ was involved in that discussion at Carlisle Vettehead tent, many years before the car was found and restored).. :)
I do think it is a very special car due to the 'special order paint' (and the story behind it) which adds some value to its 'restored real Z28' value, but to me that 'extra value' would not be $150K.. :) if you HATE the color, it might even be worth less than an equivalently restored red, orange, or silver car... :)"
Stands on it own, and Gary states pretty clearly before the car was discovered, what was known about the car.
It is clearly a special order paint car with docs, and lucky enough to have both the original owner and dealer recollect that it was not the typical stripe delete car and that special paint was selected for the car. It has also been inspected by Jerry M, who is nationally recognized.
I can understand where Clem is coming from, in the sense we are all trying to put the pieces of the puzzle back together as far how these cars were assembled and all the minutia that went along with the process, and in doing so we have to be open to more than just hearsay when there are docs and some pics to back up such a story. The other thing I would add is Clem doesn't even own the car, so to the best of my knowledge he does not financially benefit from this (becoming historic) discussion.
So lets see how the docs both from Jerry, Clem, and the Original Dealer, speak for themselves. The Auction has its own sideshow of unknowns, and "mystery phone bidders" , so since the debate on color has been talked out, lets just continue to follow the car and let the numbers speak for themselves,
Right? ;D
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Clem, Please keep your posts civil so that your valuable contributions will not be deleted. I understand there is a lot of pride on both sides of the issue. However, the experts who are sticking by their opinions are core members of this site and personal attacks will get deleted. Just sayin!
One of my favorite posts from the beginning of this whole debacle was Jerry Macniesh saying Evening Orchid was not available in 1969... End of story.
That of course was just the beginning of the story. Now at Mecum, there will be the car hyped up as a 1 of 1 special paint and an expert written appraisal of the car stating it is just a standard color with a stripe delete, which is certainly not that rare. Should make for interesting TV.
This certainly has been an interesting story on many boards, not just here and Team Camaro, but on several other boards as well. Some brought up an interesting point that there was a light purple color available in 1969. Is it possible that you requested "Evening Orchid" and the paint used was actually called "Sunset Silver", which is what that light purple color was called in 1969?
1969 Buick in Sunset Silver:
(http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/data/500/RoseMetallic.jpg)
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I would have never ordered a car in a "silver" color as mrs clem wanted a purple car but it turned out to be not purple enough for her. orchids are purple in color and I was familiar with EO from other GM cars painted that color. I think people are using that sunset silver argument to cover their behinds
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Clem, Please keep your posts civil so that your valuable contributions will not be deleted. I understand there is a lot of pride on both sides of the issue. However, the experts who are sticking by their opinions are core members of this site and personal attacks will get deleted. Just sayin!
One of my favorite posts from the beginning of this whole debacle was Jerry Macniesh saying Evening Orchid was not available in 1969... End of story.
That of course was just the beginning of the story. Now at Mecum, there will be the car hyped up as a 1 of 1 special paint and an expert written appraisal of the car stating it is just a standard color with a stripe delete, which is certainly not that rare. Should make for interesting TV.
This certainly has been an interesting story on many boards, not just here and Team Camaro, but on several other boards as well. Some brought up an interesting point that there was a light purple color available in 1969. Is it possible that you requested "Evening Orchid" and the paint used was actually called "Sunset Silver", which is what that light purple color was called in 1969?
1969 Buick in Sunset Silver:
(http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/data/500/RoseMetallic.jpg)
that color is still a long way from Cortez silver that was a std color for a 69 Z/28
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that pic of Sunset silver 69 Buick , looks more similar to EO than Cortez silver to me
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It probably is Austin, I run across that fairly often painting these cars. A lot of colors are the same or extremely similar, just the different brand of GM cars give them their own catchy name.
For example the Frost Green on my Z is identical to the naked eye in all aspects to the same color that Pontiac used in 1969 called Limelight.
Although I never bothered to research it I could look at paint chips and mix formulas and confirm it.
Another example and I'll use a favorite here, Hugger Orange looks shockingly similar to Pontiac Carousel Red doesn't it? ;D
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That's because it is the same.
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Clem,
You were doing good, right up to when you had to add that last sentence (in reply #39)......
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I would have never ordered a car in a "silver" color as mrs clem wanted a purple car but it turned out to be not purple enough for her. orchids are purple in color and I was familiar with EO from other GM cars painted that color. I think people are using that sunset silver argument to cover their behinds
I thought it was a valid point.
While this topic has been discussed at nausea, I still think experts make mistakes. They are human just like the rest of us. :)
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Suggestion. Don't keep stirring the pot.
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(https://www.autoflower.net/forums/images/smilies/horse.gif)
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SPCA and PETA will be after you, boy - shame on you -
Kidding. Didn't know there was an emoticon for flogging a dead horse -
Regards (and Merry Christmas !)
Steve
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Darrell .....are sure that horse is dead? hahahaha
I think it is in a coma anyway...
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I just feel like this thread and the others before it have run their course and neither side will agree aside from disagreeing.. Its one car and its he said; he said.. Unless someone here wants to buy the car then this thread and others like it need to be locked down.. My $0.02 and I wont make another post in it.. Steve you crack me up.. (http://www.camaros.org/forum/Smileys/default/grin.gif). Austin this horse has been tenderized..(http://www.camaros.org/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Well, while I disagree on locking it, it has been talked out.
I put this topic in the category of special order paint, like the carolina blue car, (not typical, or highly sought after IMO)
and the market for these cars is a bit different, and lends itself to other makes and models of special order cars, like the playboy pink mustangs of the 60's (yuk).
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WEll.. I'd love to have one of the Playboy bunny cars, in playboy pink, complete with 'playboy bunny'... Hey, I'd even take an old '60's bunny.. Is Barbi Benton still around? *L*
I'd also love to have Clem's old Z28 (but I'm not bidding $225K).. :) If I had it, I'd never repaint it, and I wouldn't care what anyone called it; let everyone 'win' their silly argument... :) after all, everyone has an opinion... just as they do other things.. :)
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It would take quite a bit of resto work (cosmetic surgery) to get one of those playboy bunnies worth looking at, Barbi who?
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WEll.. I'd love to have one of the Playboy bunny cars, in playboy pink, complete with 'playboy bunny'... Hey, I'd even take an old '60's bunny.. Is Barbi Benton still around? *L*
I know who!!
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Here is a PG picture of her with clothes on.
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That looks like a 1970 or so picture from Hee Haw.
Here she is as of last year.
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3H2IRQWBil8/0.jpg)
Stll nice.
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Austin this horse has been tenderized..[img]
I just have to add this - worst pun I could think of -
You can tell it's a "Mustang" because the flies are hovering over it -
Regards,
Steve
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Austin this horse has been tenderized..[img]
I just have to add this - worst pun I could think of -
You can tell it's a "Mustang" because the flies are hovering over it -
Regards,
Steve
(creative pun) but.......BOOOOooo :P
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Was waitin' for your reply on that one. LOL
and...maybe cause I'm half a hundred years old, but Barbi Benton looking alright! (looks like a little girl in the 1st pic, yea I'm getting older!)
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Feeling naughty: reply #56 need moved to the " Survivor" section!
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Santa already came this week via Heartbeat City/Fed ex !
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Good to see I'm not the only old fart who remembers Barbi.. :)
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:) :) :) I remember her!
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I might have a special place on my wall for a Sophia Loren Poster, or maybe of Rachael Welch in One Million years B.C., but other than those 2 beauties any woman born before my mom, is in the - Depends/Metamucil/Super Polident category....and I view as part of the "Cocoon " movie franchise... :P
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Then that would put you in the Pampers/Gerbers/Johnson's Baby Shampoo category to some of the rest of us. ;D
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I get that. ;D
I am probably in the minority here on the CRG, but in the (near?) future I don't mind driving some of you to the old folks homes so you can pick up chicks.... ;D
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Then that would put you in the Pampers/Gerbers/Johnson's Baby Shampoo category to some of the rest of us. ;D
Ouch!!
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I knew who they all are and I dont think I am far from Austins age. maybe he was sheltered. Surprised my mom let me have that big poster of loni anderson on my wall
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Not talking Betty Grable, although there may be a few on the site, LOL.
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I knew who they all are and I dont think I am far from Austins age. maybe he was sheltered. Surprised my mom let me have that big poster of loni anderson on my wall
Did you have the swimsuit pix of Farrah Fawcett on the back of your office door at work too? :)
.. I plead guilty to that one. :)
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Back to the Z28,,, who installed the cowl plenum air cleaner, and the big eared radiator cap,
I don't know much about the story on this car, I been busy detailing my own 69Z , and doing stuff since I retired 2 years ago.
Thanks
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If not on here somewhere, I'm pretty sure Team Camaro has more info on it's build. Color description maybe a good start in "search".
This thread just happened to take the light humored path it needed to go :D
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Which is as far off topic that you can get cars to girls thanks for the laughs D
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Back to the Z28,,, who installed the cowl plenum air cleaner, and the big eared radiator cap,
I don't know much about the story on this car, I been busy detailing my own 69Z , and doing stuff since I retired 2 years ago.
Thanks
The car was modified almost immediately by its original owner.
I really see no need to discuss this car any further. It's just a special paint Z28.
Search on www.camaros.net about the car. That reading should occupy the better part of a day. If that's not enough, search the www.yenko.net site.
This car has had WAY more attention than it deserves.
Much earlier in this thread it was suggested "Let sleeping dogs lie".
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Hey Guys, does anyone know anything about the "special" air cleaner on that Camaro??? Very rare I say. Thanks
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Sold at auction for $150,000...Anybody else notice that depending on how the light hit it and/or the camera angle it looked like Cortez Silver? :)
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Some people's eyes can't detect the subtle purple/lavender/orchid shades.....
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Two things .
I never knew that a 1969 Z/28 came with that type of air cleaner.
The sticker on the right fender is that not a sticker that was put on a Canadian Car.If so why was the car sold in the US?
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Two things .
I never knew that a 1969 Z/28 came with that type of air cleaner.
It was added by the original owner. It's not original and wasn't available from the factory in the 1969 model year.
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This thing is like herpes. It comes out for a while then goes back into remission
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:-[ Ouch.. :'(
poor car.
Funny that this car is one of the original (20,302) 69 Z/28's, but has garnered more scrutiny and hostility than a cloned 69. ;D
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:-[ Ouch.. :'(
poor car.
Funny that this car is one of the original (20,302) 69 Z/28's, but has garnered more scrutiny and hostility than a cloned 69. ;D
Nicely said.
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I daresay there's NO ONE who has ever visited this site (or TC) who would Not LOVE to have that car.. an original Z28, special ordered by a known person - still living, the salesman who ordered it still living and both having signed letters so stating how it was ordered with the special paint. Lost for awhile.. probably abused by 'kids'..? :) and then finally restored to a nice degree by a knowledgable craftsman.
Disregard all the 'crap'.. that's just imperfect people displaying their imperfections; the car is a gem.. and it can park in my garage anytime it wants.. and for all time.. :)
Just one man's opinion...
Gary / 69Z28-RS
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Well I agree, but not for 150k.
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:-[ Ouch.. :'(
poor car.
Funny that this car is one of the original (20,302) 69 Z/28's, but has garnered more scrutiny and hostility than a cloned 69. ;D
I agree, I've said that many times myself. Not uncommon among sites to see this though. It's so common that most sites have invented name for it (shark tank) Kinda sad.
What's not so common anymore is actually seeing a real Z that doesn't have a fake tag, lol. Strange when there were so many made to begin with. That alone has to garner some respect in my eyes so I'm never so quick to judge on restoration mistakes. However from a learning standpoint, if it's done tastefully, I'm all for it. We just have to remember that not everyone wants or needs a car like that, and just want something to enjoy.
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Scrutiny increases in direct proportion to price.
Scrutiny increases exponentially to rarity.
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Scrutiny = CRG
I am guilty of it. It can be a curse, and a precautions gift.
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Best wishes to the new owner.
Cars don't deserve sympathy. They are inanimate objects.
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It may not deserve sympathy in the short view, but for others who see the long view, we may express empathy because we intuit the human care with which it was cars were created or restored. (Maybe more so for a car that is so sought after and cloned)
My 2 cents
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Sorry, but the scrutiny comes from the current owners greed. The color does not make it worth $100,000 to $125,000 more than other REAL 1969 Z28's. They made 20,302, that is not a small rare number. I bought a 68 Z28 to be different, it is not worth as much, but it is not like all the rest. We have a 65 GTO Iris Mist convertible, they made 20, 3x2 stick car, documented. Still do not think it is a 100k car. Also have a 64 GTO convertible 3x2 stick car also documented, just under 6,600 made. Still not a 110k car. So why do these guys think a REAL acknowledged 69 Z28 is worth that much? That is the biggest problem with this REAL car. My earlier comment is because this same car keeps popping up at auctions and has received all this internet chat. The point is that there is a reason it is not bringing big bids or selling
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The point is that there is a reason it is not bringing big bids or selling
Not bringing big bids or selling? Sold for $150k (plus commission) at the Kissimmee auction. Sounds pretty big to me.
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We also have to keep in perspective that just because something is low production, that doesn't always equate to more money either. As much as I love Pontiacs (I have one and my father bought his GTO new) the 64's and 65's haven't really been big money cars. When it comes to Pontiacs it's the round port motor stuff that are the stronger sellers.
Popularity also plays a big roll in price, and 69 Camaros usually hover around the top of that list. I agree however, and I've said this many times myself, with 20,302 69 Z's built, it's not a rare car by any means and it astonishes me the money these things bring. It has more to do with it's popularity, and the Z28 heritage/history is pretty cool. The first gen Z's also got something that even GM's prestigious corvettes didn't get so that makes them unique in their own right.
Nothing wrong with 67-68's either in my book, I'd own one.
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The point is that there is a reason it is not bringing big bids or selling
Not bringing big bids or selling? Sold for $150k (plus commission) at the Kissimmee auction. Sounds pretty big to me.
I watched a 69 RS Z sell at BJ this past January for $140k before commission. Nothing special about it other than being an RS. Cortez Silver in color so color wasn't all that rare. A very nicely restored car however with lots of documentation. I took a lot of pictures of the car before it hit the block. Still amazed me at the money it brought.
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I'd feel fine in a 69...
Pretty darn great in my 68 :)
Be pure heaven in a 67 !!
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(http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/s/shoot_me-1022.gif)
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We also have to keep in perspective that just because something is low production, that doesn't always equate to more money either. As much as I love Pontiacs (I have one and my father bought his GTO new) the 64's and 65's haven't really been big money cars. When it comes to Pontiacs it's the round port motor stuff that are the stronger sellers.
Popularity also plays a big roll in price, and 69 Camaros usually hover around the top of that list. I agree however, and I've said this many times myself, with 20,302 69 Z's built, it's not a rare car by any means and it astonishes me the money these things bring. It has more to do with it's popularity, and the Z28 heritage/history is pretty cool. The first gen Z's also got something that even GM's prestigious corvettes didn't get so that makes them unique in their own right.
Nothing wrong with 67-68's either in my book, I'd own one.
Plus how many real 69 Z cars out of the 20K that they made are still out there?
How many have there born with block? ( I would think less than half)
So not " super rare" type numbers, but when you have a car with high demand and over the years many have rotted/wrecked/been torn apart, the prices will climb. There has been a couple plateaus like 2000, and 2007, but the first gen Camaros, and 69 in particular continues to climb, with the Big block cars and Z cars, and all the special HP cars raising the bar even more.
I am skeptical of any auction results, especially when you consider many of the auction houses bid and participate in many of the auctions. When the hammer slams for a 140-150k price tag on a 69 Z I am left wondering what really took place. I just don't think the market is there yet.
Like most guys on here I follow results eBay and otherwise, and IMO a #1 or unrestored 69 Z car is about 100k. +/- 5k. As I see it unrestored cars BB, Z (pace cars)or special HP cars can go for the same or more as restored #1 cars. Anything less than a SS350 car they are all over the map.
So when you mention that silver RS, or the EO car (realZ at the minimum) going for 140 or 150k, I think that is still an artificial bubble, only seen at auction. While many first gen owners that see the results may smile at the outcome, this is not a step towards a sustainable market IMO.
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Nobody knows when the bottom will fall out of the market. Never buy a car as an investment. I was told that a long time ago. If your financial advisor tells you cars are a good safe investment, find another advisor. It is OK as part of a diversified portfolio, but never count on it for your well being.
Have cars because you like them and drive them. Drive them hard. Trailer queens are fine for some people, but not for me.
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Nobody knows when the bottom will fall out of the market. Never buy a car as an investment. I was told that a long time ago. If your financial advisor tells you cars are a good safe investment, find another advisor. It is OK as part of a diversified portfolio, but never count on it for your well being.
The same could be said about real estate. A lot of guys buy cars as an investment and make mucho dinero off them. I think it's probably more stable than the stock market these days.... With that said, like you, I have cars & motorcycles because I like them, like to drive them & like to drive them hard.
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To me special paint adds 10 percent price to the price. That is what it amounted to on the 67 Plum Mist GTO convertible that the Volo Museum boght from us. They had it appraised at 60k and sold it at their "no haggle price " of 55k in 23 days after purchasing it from us at Carlisle that was 15 years ago