CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Restoration => Topic started by: Prackman on December 05, 2015, 04:02:36 PM
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This question may have been addressed in an older thread but I can not located it, so I need to ask again.
Looking at the AIM for 1969, pages 474 & 475 indicates that the outer (pin) stripe, Z28 option, is .25 inch wide and has a .38 inch gap between the pin and larger rallye stripe.
However, in Jerry MacNiesh's 1969 Camaro Z/28 fact book (2nd Edition, page 74), Jerry states that both the pin stripe width and gap width are equal at 9/32 (.28125) inches.
Questions:
- which is correct?
- did the Norwood and Van Nuys plants have different paint standards for these stripes?
- did Fisher body or Chevrolet perform the painting process?
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I'm sure the AIM has the more accurate specification, but in application of the spec, perhaps Jerry's measures are indicative of how they come out of paint. I'm sure the factory didn't measure/check/correct to see that they matched the AIM spec.. if they looked good... they car was OK'ed and shipped... :) Or maybe JohnZ will tell us that they did check the stripe/spacing against some 'wider' spec before approval??
PS. My car has original paint from the firewall back, so I could check the rear deck stripes and take some photos with a precision ruler alongside if that would help.. :)
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Gary W - any photo's would be greatly appreciated. It seems all the vehicles I currently see painted with Rallye stripes have a gap distance = pin stripe width.
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I just measured my original paint stripes on my hood and rear spoiler. It looks to me like the distance between is mostly the same. I will post pictures later and let you be the judge.
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On my LOS car, the pinstripe and gap are equal, and the overall width of both is 9/16". I made a drawing of the stripe measurements a few years ago, I'd be happy to share it with you if required but it does differ from the AIM specs and so is only really a record of how this car was done.
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There is enough of the original stripes left on mine to measure both front and back, I just haven't gotten to that point with the car yet. It's a 12D Norwood car, if that helps you at all I'll measure it.
But I'm willing to bet that you might find mild variances depending on plant and time frame at that specific plant which probably explains why Jerry sees one thing and the AIM states another. Something like this is not uncommon at all. If you want to be technically correct it would be best to find an original example from the same plant that is at least within a couple weeks of your build. Because I highly doubt that all stripes measured exactly the same between 20,302 69 Z28's built at 2 different plants.
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Hood pics. Hope this helps. Let me know if you need more pics and or measurments.
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Rear spoiler.
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Thanks Len - your dimensions confirms Jerry's and what I generally see out there. Still wonder why the AIM has such a discrepancy.
Thanks again
John
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John, I see something different than you apparently.... it must be in the 'eyes of the beholder'... If you are 'painting your car', then I'd suggest going by the AIM... then see what you have after the tape is removed.
Gary
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The AIM has a known error in the stripe dimensions. I don't recall which dimension, but Mark C will. :)
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There's definitely an error in the '69 AIM for the distance the rear stripes should stop from the rear glass trim, can't recall the dimensions off the top of my head but I think the conflicting measurement arose from the difference between v-top and no v-top.
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Generally the stripe gap and pin stripe dimensions are both the same and they each measure 9/32". My pacecar original stripes were 1/4" gap and 3/8" pin stripe. Seams the stripes changed and it appears to be random (ie not before or after a certain date), may have something to do with the masking tape available at the time the car was built. LA cars are different than Nopwood built cars, they seem to follow the AIM more closely. Note that the right rear stripe is about 5/16" wider than the left rear stripe. The Camaro emblem has to be completely in the main body of the stripe, and it won't be if you use the AIM dimensions, it will end up in the gap between the main and pin stripe. Top of the rear stripe is 5/8" from the rear window, convertible well trim, or vinyl top trim. Front stripes are not the same width front to back either. Then are narrower at the front than the rear by about 1/4" so the appear straight when looked at from the front of the car. Center edges of the front stripes are parallel and evenly spaced front to rear.
Check out this thread over at Camaros.net and all the links in it, that should answer about 99 percent of your questions on Rally Stripes.
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=303841
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Lol, they seem to be all over the place, when you read that it goes back and forth. I'll have to go back and read that again but I'm not so sure they even came to an agreement as to when the narrow rear stripe on 69's went away and the wide rear stripe was phased in.
For what it's worth, the original rear stripes on my 12D 69 are the wide ones. This is a no spoiler car which may have made a difference because from what I understand from reading that, if mine were to have a rear spoiler it would be the 68 variety and also have narrow rear stripes, however the original stripes on my car are definitely wide. Maybe being no spoiler had something to do with that.
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Generally the stripe gap and pin stripe dimensions are both the same and they each measure 9/32".
Mark is correct. My X77 measured exactly 9/32 gap, found this out when I painted the hood in '75. I masked the stripes out by hand as there were no stencils reproduced in those days -
Regards,
Steve
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I wasn't aware of all the controversy over 'whether the AIM' has an error or not; I've looked at it like the AIM is how engineering *instructs* the assemblers to build the car, and our original cars reflect how the assemblers actually built it... sometimes instructions are changed in the plant based on issues not foreseen when the engineers specified that item and something as *trivial* as how the stripes are taped off could be considered one of those 'trivial' things that are just changed to 'fix' the AIM without making a big deal of it requiring engineering re-involvement (functionality, safety, marketing/sales are really not involved with a 1/32 width difference in the stripe of spacing).. :)
After all this I went down to my car and examined my rear stripes (that are factory original paint).. they *appeared* as I've always seen them.. I've always 'seen' them as 1/4" stripe spaced by 1/4" (although I've never measured them until today). Anyway, I got out my pointer set and set it to the stripe width, checked it against the spacing width and measured their width. I got a 'spacing width' of 9/32", and a stripe width about 17/64". I took a photo with a precision steel gauge laying across that same area.. see photos below.
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The 68style narrow stripe spacing has only been seen on VERY early built 69, like the first week or two, after that they figured out the specifications had changed and fixed the spacing and stripe width issues. LA continued to build cars with the spacing from the top of the stripes to the window trim with the much larger 68 spacing for maybe another month, but they had already changed over to the wider spaced 69 style stripes at that time. The width of the spoiler had nothing to do with the stripe size or spacing, the early cars were just messed up from the factory.
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Thanks for explaining that Mark. I'd never heard it explained in detail as to why or when and never really read much of anything about it that was very clear in any book. So I appreciate that.
I guess what puzzled me was that the narrow 68 spoiler was still being used through Dec as I'm told. Yet the 68 stripe spacing was gone long before that from your description. I don't recall that I've ever seen a 69 with the 68 spoiler and 69 spaced stripes before.
As far as the D96 stripes on a Z, I think it was William here that explained that very clearly not too long ago, that the D96 was most likely still an option on an RS Z through December. Something about a revise or cancellation didn't happen till January or something to that affect. If I knew how to find that I'd post a link here. I can't remember the details on it but it was probably the best and most thorough explanation I've seen about that to date.
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Holy cow I found it!!!! ;D I suck at these computers but here goes...
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=13988.0
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The short 68 spoiler was in use until about mid March of 69, the long spoiler first appeared around the beginning of February 69 and both were used in the overlap month and a half to 2 months, until the oin and supply of short spoilers were used up. The only group of cars that have never been seen with the short spoilers are the Z11 cars. Everyone of them had the long spoiler from the factory, how the factory managed that is not exactly clear, as the short ones were seen on Z28's, SS's and others during the same production time as the early Z11's. Z10's also have long spoilers, but the plants had used up the excess short ones by Late April, early May when the Z10's were built. Again the length of the spoiler on the car had nothing to do with the dimensions or placement of the stripes on the trunk.
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Mark, thank you for explaining that period of time when both spoilers were used. Mine was a 02D no-spoiler / standard hood car when new, but I put a "short" spoiler on it because we were making them at General Tire (fiberglass division - when I worked there in the '80's) and I thought they were all the same. I had a few guys tell me it was "wrong", yet a few more said it was "right". I was "confused!" It now has the longer spoiler