CRG Discussion Forum
Model Specific Discussions => Trans-Am Camaros => Topic started by: Iroczjeff on November 24, 2015, 02:52:29 PM
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The 1969 Z/28 T/A driven by Ken Stoddart has been found. The car was sitting in a building in Ohio for the last 30 plus years! This car was campaigned all over the North eastern side of the United States. The car retains it's original title still in Ken Stoddart's name! In addition to the title the following items were found in the car as well: Protecto Plate, SCCA Build Books, Original Dealer Order Form, GM High Performance Racing Catalog for a 1969 Camaro etc.... The car was removed from it's 30 plus year slumber by myself and Ryan Brutt "Writer from Hot Rod & Muscle Car Review magazines. From what I understand the car will be published in an upcoming issue of Muscle Car review. Here are two photos of the car the day we removed it from it's resting place and one of it on the race track in Charlotte.
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WOW, what a find. It would be nice to see this one brought back to its former glory. Is there any pics from 69 of what it looked like when it campaigned in 69, (before all the mods)?
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Yes... Those pictures will be posted soon... Jeff
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Where in the car were the doc,s? I would not think there would be a glove box.
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Sorry wrong choice of words... The docents came with the car... Not in the car...
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Awesome find, Jeff. Thanks for posting here on the forum. I look forward to seeing some progress on the restoration of this car. It's always great to see another one of these cars found and congratulations on your purchase.
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/June%202012/Bryar71-006.jpg)
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Were any of these still with the car - original engine or parts - transmission - rear axle ?
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Larger versions of previously posted photos...
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/Picture%201_zpshxnv4twn.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/Picture%201_zpshxnv4twn.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/Picture%202_zpshsvsmttx.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/Picture%202_zpshsvsmttx.jpg.html)
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Found around Mid-Ohio ? However looks like Kolektor's neck of the woods, LOL! Lots of circle tracks, probably did some time at Mansfield.
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Very, very cool. These real race cars were imply not treated to 5-star hospitality, for the most part. Can't wait to see what they do with it.
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Some additional information on this car has been posted here... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/635969/1969-z-28-trans-am-race-car-fo#Post635969
Sounds like it may be resold prior to restoration but I guess we'll see.
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Looking at the larger photos of the Stoddart car above, it is interesting to note that it has an early '67 subframe on it without the large holes on the front frame horns.
Here's another vintage pic of the car as found on the Marshall Robbins facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1722175691339052&set=a.1398131527076805.1073741832.100006399122001&type=3&theater
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That was a pretty nice appearing road racer as #46.... but it appeared to have ended up as a 'dirt tracker' as #80...
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Some pics of the car's paperwork, the cowl tag and a shot of the interior as it currently stands.
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/Ken%20Stoddart%20order%20form_zpsrcvmeof8.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/Ken%20Stoddart%20order%20form_zpsrcvmeof8.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/Ken%20Stoddart%20P-O-P_zpssc6uh9mx.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/Ken%20Stoddart%20P-O-P_zpssc6uh9mx.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/Ken%20Stoddart%20title_zps1tpe9i5r.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/Ken%20Stoddart%20title_zps1tpe9i5r.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/Ken%20Stoddart%20cowl%20tag_zpsuamlrd3b.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/Ken%20Stoddart%20cowl%20tag_zpsuamlrd3b.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/Ken%20Stoddart%20interior_zpsipdrtzdi.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/Ken%20Stoddart%20interior_zpsipdrtzdi.jpg.html)
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The Trans-Am races that I see Ken Stoddart competing in were...
Bryar, May 31, 1971, 22nd place
Mid-Ohio, June 6, 1971, 32nd place
Mt. Tremblant, August 1, 1971, 15th place
Watkins Glen, August 15, 1971, 24th place
Mid-Ohio, June 4, 1972, 22nd place
Road America, July 16, 1972, 22nd place
Sanair Int'l, July 30, 1972, 19th place
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Interesting paperwork. This car was ordered almost a full month before mine, yet was received almost 3 weeks after mine. I wonder what the hold up was?
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It appears that he ordered a car through one dealer and picked it up at a different dealer. Without talking to Ken Stoddart, there is no telling what the complete story is. It would be interesting to see what the NCRS Muscle Docs would show for this car.
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Besides the 67 frame holes the washer motor hole looks round like on a 67 firewall. It could just be the angle of the photo.
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I would be interested to see the rear end stamp, if it is still the original. It is dated 3 days after mine, so I wonder if the "C" is win front of the BU, or not, since the car may have started to get built before mine?
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I want to thank everyone for all the great comments!!! The vintage pictures are pouring in of the car!!! Here are a few pictures of the front calipers.. I just took the front wheels off today. Jeff
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Here is another picture of the rotor and caliper.
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Some good pieces there, Jeff.
More info on the JL8/J56 brakes here at this link... http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10786.0;all
Your calipers are mounted mounted on the leading side of the rotor like a Corvette. Can you take some photos from the backside showing the bracket(s) and how they're mounted?
Did you get any swaybar pieces with the car?
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Here is a picture of the caliper from the inside. I do have one sway bar that came with the car... Pictures of the sway bar will be posted tomorrow. Jeff
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Any chance of posting a pic of the rear end stamping and protecto plate?
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Looks like the JL8 front calipers based on the casting number.
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Thanks for the pic, Jeff. Looks like the Corvette J56 heavy duty caliper reinforcement bracket (inside red box) and the front spindle (yellow line) also looks like a Corvette piece since the spindle looks like it attaches to the lower ball-joint on the underside of the lower a-arm like a Corvette from that era does. That probably means the brake caliper mounting bracket is from a Corvette as well. It would be nice to see the parts when they are cleaned up and you can see some of the casting numbers.
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Any chance of posting a pic of the rear end stamping and protecto plate?
To make the car a roller there is currently a 10-bolt under it.
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The '69 Camaro owners who prepared their cars for road racing (Trans A, IMSA, etc) who purchased the OTC Heavy Duty disk brake rear .. in all likelihood used converted Corvette front brakes along with the rear, at least that was my understanding gained from a friend racer. In fact, didn't the 'green sheets' papers (first power book) actually recommend that approach?
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Here is a picture of the sway bar that was sitting inside the car when I bought it...
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Someone asked for the back of the Precto Plate?
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Here is something you don't see every day!
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cool. Can you take a close up of just the metal credit card?
thank you :)
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Jeff, that binder of documents is as cool as the car itself. There are not a whole lot of T/A cars (but some) out there that still have that level of original documentation. It is really great you got that stuff.
Thanks for more photos. That looks like the factory 1-1/16" front sway bar. I have one on my car. They are a tough find.
The front brakes as they are currently configured would not have been legal in 1969 and earlier. In 1970 the Trans-Am rules changed and you could use any brake components, aftermarket or from another manufacturer. Since your car did not race in Trans-Am until 1971, it is not surprising to see some Corvette pieces up front including the caliper bracket and spindle. It looks like Stoddart did get the Camaro 4-wheel-disc calipers as evidenced by the casting number and inner half with the single boss for the brake line.
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I want to thank Jon and the rest of the Camaro Research Group for all your kind words and help. When I first bought the car I was over come by a project like this!!! After sitting down and going through the car I find it amazing and very restorable!!! I have restored many cars in my life but never a Trans Am 1969 Z/28... The more pictures that keep coming in make me want to restore this car back to it's original TA glory... With that being said I have decided that this car will go though a complete restoration to "As Raced" in the TA series... I would appreciate any and all photos any of you may have of my car... I am also very interested in a set of original Torque Thrust Magnesium wheels for my car. "yes I know how much they cost, and how rare they are!" I am sure you will see me asking for help regarding certain products that were used in the day as well as period correct items... Regards, Jeff
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The docs are priceless. The car would look awesome put back together as a vintage trans am racer. Sure you want Torq thrusts, and not Mini Lites?
Hard to tell if the car ran aluminum/magnessium wheels from those pics. Looks like steel wheels in both vintage pics?
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Jeff, it is definitely a big project but it will be a very special car when done. I will be glad to help you with advice and technical information and I'm sure others here will do the same.
If you could continue to post more pictures of the car it will be a help. I know the rear axle has been changed but I'm curious what's left in terms of rear shocks, possible rear sway bar, panhard rod, etc.
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I want to thank Jon and the rest of the Camaro Research Group for all your kind words and help. When I first bought the car I was over come by a project like this!!! After sitting down and going through the car I find it amazing and very restorable!!! I have restored many cars in my life but never a Trans Am 1969 Z/28... The more pictures that keep coming in make me want to restore this car back to it's original TA glory... With that being said I have decided that this car will go though a complete restoration to "As Raced" in the TA series... I would appreciate any and all photos any of you may have of my car... I am also very interested in a set of original Torque Thrust Magnesium wheels for my car. "yes I know how much they cost, and how rare they are!" I am sure you will see me asking for help regarding certain products that were used in the day as well as period correct items... Regards, Jeff
IrocJeff,
I sent you a PM re a set of 15x8 ARE magnesium Torq Thrust D's that I have (from the RACE TA car), as well as an OTC HD disk brake rear from the same car... These parts need to find the right car ... :)
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69Z28-RS thank you very much for reaching out! I did get your email. I have been very busy with projects at work. I will contact you later today. Regards, Jeff
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Do you know if it was raced with a single 4 bbl or the crossram setup?
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Do you know if it was raced with a single 4 bbl or the crossram setup?
It would have raced with the single 4 bbl. Multiple carburetion was no longer legal beginning in the 1970 season and this car did not race in Trans-Am until 1971.
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Jon is correct, the car raced with a single Holley... While going through pictures of the car racing I noticed something weird... It appears Ken raced the car with the factory Rosewood steering wheel on it? In the one photo I have it is very easy to see the Rosewood color... Was this aloud in TA? Jeff
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Yes, it was totally legal to run a stock Rosewood steering wheel if that's what you wanted. Here's a photo of John Elliott's '69 Trans-Am Camaro interior and you can see the stock two spoke steering wheel.
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What an odd looking cage.
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that cage does appear different... I was under the impression that there was a 'standard minimum', which could be exceeded but could not be minimized?? Or am I thinking of the later IMSA GT rules??
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That particular cage was built in '69 and a cage was not mandatory in Trans-Am until 1971. I still believe the cage would have passed the criteria for the early '70s. I'm not up on IMSA requirements.
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Jon,
In the rulebooks you posted today, there were some 'roll cage' requirements, and I thought one of them specified that the roll bar had to extend the full width of the driver compartment... and in the photograph posted, that one did not appear to do that? There were also requirements for certain size steel tubing inside the doors, connected into the roll cage. The RACE car went beyond the minimum, and had double tubes in the doors and additional reinforcement above the minimum. The owner/driver (Bob Christiansen) as an IBM mechanical engineering manager and a part time SCCA participant wanted to have the fun, but didn't want to pay too high a 'physical' price for his fun; I agreed with him, although the extra weight cost him in his finishing positions.
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Gary, the John Elliott car's cage does extend the full width of the interior. Just because it is low up front, I don't think that there is a specific regulation against that. Bars extending into the doors was definitely not a requirement for Trans-Am cars at that time. Somebody who wanted to also run in Nascar Grand-American events or who just liked Nascar cage construction may have opted to do that but it was not required.
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Awesome car. Here is a pair of magnesium TTDs that look pretty clean:
http://tinyurl.com/p3mlvcj
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/TaoAAOSwu4BVlsQq/s-l1600.jpg)
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I don't like the way the main hoop leans so far forward. The front bars are too low also. It looked to me like a cage out of another car made to fit this one.
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barn find trans am z/28
http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/watch-while-we-rescue-a-real-deal-1969-chevrolet-camaro-z-28-trans-am-race-car/ar-AAgAYrj?ocid=spartandhp#page=1
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Here is the roll cage from the Hot Rod Mag. Different from pictures above.
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Here are a few items I found on my second trip to the building I found my 1969 Z/28 Trans Am car in. Enjoy...
1. Original oil cooler
2. Original bottom of seat
3. Original Core Support with oil filter
4. Original Shut Off
5. Original Stewart Warner Gauges
6. Original Front & rear Wheel "Still missing one!!!"
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Core Support.
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Wheel
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Original Race tires...
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Awesome finds. keep the pics coming
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Really cool stuff, Jeff. I'm happy you were able to go back and get these things that obviously belong with the car. Thanks for posting here.
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I was at Rick Hendrick's complex in Charlotte the past 2 days, and while there I *almost* purchased a set of 'barely raced/practiced' Good Year race tires... 27.5 x 12 -15.. but I thought they were probably too large/wide for the 15x8.5 magnesium TA wheels I have.. and probably too large to fit inside the wheel wells for anything I own.. but at $25/each for barely scrubbed in tires... it was almost more than I could pass up.. :)
and Oh boy, have I got some photos !! and I did see dozens of Z28s, including the '68 Old Reliable Dave Strickler car.. and many many more.... :)
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See the Aug. 2016 Musclecar Review story and more pics of this camaro.
Robert
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Here are some pics I took of the Camaro at the MCACN show last week. Very nice opportunity to see the car and meet car owner Jeff in person. Also looking over the car with me was GM engineer Franz Esterreicher who noted the legitimacy of the racing brake calipers while also pointing out that the rear leaf springs were the special ones he helped design for Daytona that kept the car from bottoming out when making the transition from the banking down onto the infield portion of the track. Franz said the springs were worth a half-second per lap at Daytona.
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/IMG_9377%20Stoddart_zpsuopwspau.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/IMG_9377%20Stoddart_zpsuopwspau.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/IMG_9382%20Stoddart_zpseivponk0.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/IMG_9382%20Stoddart_zpseivponk0.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/IMG_9393%20Stoddart_zpsfiarksgk.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/IMG_9393%20Stoddart_zpsfiarksgk.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/IMG_9378%20VIN_zpscanv0til.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/IMG_9378%20VIN_zpscanv0til.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/IMG_9379%20VIN%20under_zpsa9kac3wt.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/IMG_9379%20VIN%20under_zpsa9kac3wt.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/IMG_9399%20partial%20VIN_zpssiahe83h.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/IMG_9399%20partial%20VIN_zpssiahe83h.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/IMG_9400%20Stoddart_zpsbjp3izif.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/IMG_9400%20Stoddart_zpsbjp3izif.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/IMG_9392%20Stoddart_zpsqmtfzzfv.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/IMG_9392%20Stoddart_zpsqmtfzzfv.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/IMG_9380%20seat%20frame_zps6dtmapsm.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/IMG_9380%20seat%20frame_zps6dtmapsm.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/IMG_9381%20rear%20area%20RH_zpsoct5ifde.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/IMG_9381%20rear%20area%20RH_zpsoct5ifde.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/IMG_9383%20Stoddart_zpswajp829z.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/IMG_9383%20Stoddart_zpswajp829z.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/IMG_9390%20main%20hoop_zpstqirrate.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/IMG_9390%20main%20hoop_zpstqirrate.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/IMG_9384%20rear%20seat%20area_zps25wyuroy.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/IMG_9384%20rear%20seat%20area_zps25wyuroy.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/IMG_9386%20rear%20shock%20upper_zpslxbyvbrx.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/IMG_9386%20rear%20shock%20upper_zpslxbyvbrx.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/IMG_9389%20Stoddart_zpstu1ewkpg.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/IMG_9389%20Stoddart_zpstu1ewkpg.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/IMG_9396%20frame_zpshweqxub8.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/IMG_9396%20frame_zpshweqxub8.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/IMG_9401%20blueprint_zpshcnmcxxm.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/IMG_9401%20blueprint_zpshcnmcxxm.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/IMG_9402%20schematic_zps6y3xm3qc.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/IMG_9402%20schematic_zps6y3xm3qc.jpg.html)
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Wish I would have seen this thread prior to being at MCACN. Was going to ask you about the car Jon on Sunday and never followed thru. Neat piece of race history!
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Appreciate the update Jon, very cool car, and hope they fix 'er up to her glory days.
It must have been very interesting given the chance to talk to a GM Engineer.
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Yes, Jeff's plan is to restore the car back to how it was is the '71 season when it was green and white.
I had communicated with Franz via email many times in the past but this was our first face-to-face meeting.