CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: KY67 on August 28, 2015, 08:44:40 PM
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Is it possible to determine with certainty whether my engine is original to my '67 Camaro?
VIN = 124377N189128
Cowl Tag indicates 01D build date and Norwood assembly (NOR 74367)
Engine Code from engine pad V0202MA (no partial VIN)
I interpret these codes to indicate the following,
- engine assembly from engine code Feb 2,
- build date from cowl tag Jan 4th week,
- serial number from VIN (189128) maps to a March production
I understand engine code dates can be later than cowl tag build date. Is the VIN serial number inconsistent with the build date or engine code? Is there anything else I can do to confirm whether engine is original to the car? Any help is appreciated.
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What is the engine block casting number and casting date?
Paul
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I hate to have to tell you this, but it looks like either your tag or VIN is from a different car. You'll want to check the partial VIN on the cowl. http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#PartialVIN
Can you post a picture of the cowl tag? That NOR # doesn't look right for that date.
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I have attached a pic of the cowl tag. I will hunt for the engine block numbers later today and post.
I have owned and driven the car for many years with the assumption that the engine was not original. I'm now finally beginning a process of gathering the relevant information and looking more deeply to determine what is original to the car and what is not.
It has been painted White (by a previous owner) and later Marina Blue (by my teenage self), but the original color is Sierra Fawn. There is also rectangular opening in the floor hump for a shifter, but the car is a 3spd manual with a shifter on the column. So, there has clearly been some work done. I have had many years of enjoyment from this car and I'm not particularly concerned if the car has been pieced together previously as I suspect. Of course it would be a pleasant surprise to find otherwise.
Thanks for the help.
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I thought for a minute you might have been wrong on the engine code (the "K" was throwing me off). Need '67 expert '67 opinions !
Regards,
Steve
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Still haven't been able to get to the block casting number. Any tricks to getting to this while the engine is installed?
I did however find the axle code. PW 10 21 G. Oct 21 certainly sounds disconnected from the other dates. I am now assuming this was salvaged from another vehicle.
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I can provide some information from my car. The Vin is close to KY67's car. Hope it is useful.
Vin:7N185414
BDY: 85174
Build date: 02E
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Thanks! There are some atypical features of that tag, but I don't think it's anything.
But the VIN is way off. As you can see from LVN's VIN, yours should be a March car, not a January car.
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KY67,
You can probably see the casting number by looking directly down just in front of the firewall on the drivers side, just behind the drivers side cylinder head.
And yes, axle probably from another car.
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I have attached pics of the VIN and Engine Casting Number. However, I still cannot locate the Casting Date.
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..and here are pics of where I thought I would find the casting date. Am I in the wrong place?
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Casting date will be behind the distributor area down on the bell housing flange. More toward the passenger side relative to the last image you posted.
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Thanks bcmiller.
Here is as pic of the casting date. The L, 2, and 9 are obvious. Is that a 3,8 or simply a stamp mark following the 9? Any opinions?
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Looks like L 29 8 to me. Is L Dec? Dec 29 68?
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Here is as pic of the casting date. The L, 2, and 9 are obvious. Is that a 3,8 or simply a stamp mark following the 9? Any opinions?
Looks like L 29 8 to me. Is L Dec? Dec 29 68?
It has to be L 29 6 (December 29, 1966) with a 3892657 block casting number.
http://www.camaros.org/drivetrain.shtml#BlockCast
Paul
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Exactly the problem. Looks like an 8 to me but that would be inconsistent with the casting number. Can anyone else see a 6 in that pic? Does anyone have a pic of a casting date with a 6 to compare?
Thanks all,
Martyn
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It's common for the casting dates to be sloppy like that.
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Assuming that is a 6 in the casting date (because nothing else makes sense), I have the following,
VIN:124377N18912
Cowl Tag indicates 01D build date and Norwood assembly (NOR 74367)
Engine Code from engine pad V0202MA (no partial VIN)
Block casting number 3892657
Block casting date L 29 6
So,
- the block casting number is consistent with a '67 327
- the block casting date (12/29/66) precedes engine assembly (2/2/67) by 33 days (A BIT MUCH BUT NOT UNHEARD OF)
- the engine code is consistent with a '67 327/210 manual
- engine assembly date is 4-11 days after the cowl tag build date (Jan 4th week) depending upon when in week 4 the engine assembly began (THIS IS UNUSUAL BUT IS IT POSSIBLE?)- see note below from Drivetrain Decoding page.
The engine assembly date almost always is before the Fisher Body cowl tag date. In the unusual case it is later (since the Fisher Body calendar does not always line up with the normal calendar), it should be within a week of the body.
The serial number from VIN (189128) maps to a March production. Is this possible with a 1D cowl tag date? The production numbers for Feb were remarkably low? Does anyone know the explanation? Could this explain the apparent inconsistency?
for MY '67, the partial VIN was stamped on engine block only for Z-28 and SS engines, not my base 327. Is there any other means of confirming an original engine?
Martyn
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"Does anyone know the explanation?"KY67(Martyn)
I am sorry if this has already been addressed, but have you checked the hidden VIN? to see if it is the same as tag on your car's jamb?
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I would try to straighten out the vin anomaly first. Take the wipers off and pull the cowl panel to find the one hidden vin. I'm not thrilled that the vin plate is painted. I would be taking a hard look at the rivets. Shouldn't be painted. Never say never, but you shouldn't have an engine assembled after the car was built. Good luck, keep us informed.
Buddy
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Great minds think alike Bentley. We posted at th,e same time!
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I hate to have to tell you this, but it looks like either your tag or VIN is from a different car. You'll want to check the partial VIN on the cowl. http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#PartialVIN
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okay...the partial VIN below the cowl is 7N189128...not a match as you suspected.
So...looks like this car has been pieced together from multiple cars based on non-matching VINs and the late date on rear axle. I'm still puzzled as to how one can absolutely confirm an original, numbers-,matching engine without a partial VIN on the engine. Am I missing something or is it only possible to determine that numbers are consistent rather than matching?
I'll move on to the transmission next. I'm still interested to see if everything is as it should be for the model, even if it is not original to the car. I'm also looking at the interior and see some suspicious floor panels. More on that soon and in a more appropriate thread.
And to think this all started with a simple heater core replacement :)
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Is it possible to determine with certainty whether my engine is original to my '67 Camaro?
VIN = 124377N189128
Cowl Tag indicates 01D build date and Norwood assembly (NOR 74367)
Engine Code from engine pad V0202MA (no partial VIN)
- serial number from VIN (189128) maps to a March production
I understand engine code dates can be later than cowl tag build date. Is the VIN serial number inconsistent with the build date or engine code? Is there anything else I can do to confirm whether engine is original to the car? Any help is appreciated.
okay...the partial VIN below the cowl is 7N189128...not a match as you suspected.
:)
Excuse me?, THAT is a match! 8)
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Do everyone a favor and post pics of the trim tag, axle code, hidden vin and the vin tag; please...
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Do everyone a favor and post pics of the trim tag, axle code, hidden vin and the vin tag; please...
Darrell, photos of the cowl tag and VIN tag have already been posted. See replies 3 & 9.
Paul
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Sorry I didnt even look at the 1st page.. My apologizes.
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Guess I wasn't awake this morning when I made that post. That's embarrassing. Let's try again.
Pic of the partial VIN from the cowl is attached. The 2 is hard to make out in the pic but shows more clearly under a magnifying glass. The stamp is odd in that the number is positioned higher than the others and the stamp is light at the top of the 2.
I have also attached a pic of the transmission code (S7T19 - Saginaw 3spd '67 Dec 19).
So...now what are your thoughts? Again, not looking to sell this car or pretend its anything its not. Just collecting the facts and enjoying the process.
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pic of the cowl vin is where?
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sorry. added it
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Good news, your hidden VIN does match your actual VIN.
Since your VIN was recorded as produced after your engine, the engine may be original.
The only thing that seems out of sequence is the trim tag, which could possibly have been replaced at any time. The only question is why? It is nothing special, so it's not for deceit. Maybe an abberation?