CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bryan302 on August 25, 2015, 05:56:06 AM
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I saw this very documented Z on ebay. It has 17 hours left, hurry to look!
CHECK OUT THE BULKHEAD NUMBERS!!
Listed as: Chevrolet Camaro Z28, look for rally green / white stripes.
Bryan
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This one Bryan? You have any connection to the car?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231655128141
124379N640696
Not the typical certification shown in the listing!
(http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss130/sletourneau/IMG_4168_zpsn4zvh3re.jpg)
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no connections, just thought it was a very unique color combo, and seriously documented. Did anybody notice the bulkhead numbers?? LGX7, (deluxe interior with an X) check out the bulkhead numbers thread posted recently, here on CRG!
Cool car!
Bryan
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Looks like whoever on the line thought it was suppose to be black interior with the X7 and then realized it was suppose to be DG..??.. Has there been sightings of something different on deluxe interior cars? Regardless great looking car.. Definitely one of the good colors.. ;D
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Jerry McNash?
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Is it my eyes, or does it have an incorrect master cylinder on it?
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Can't tell from the posting if its been restored or not.
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Yes Gary, wrong master. I love the color, great docs. Built either the same day, or the day after mine.
Buddy
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So is the original flat hood included with the car?
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Yeah, and who is this McNash character?
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Darrell, didn't mean anything specific about the deluxe interior for the bulkhead code, meant to put deluxe green interior. I just thought it was unusual for the dual code. I'm very curious now as to how many other configurations of bulkhead codes are out there, and if they are different like this one, are they mistakes.
jdv69z, I also noticed the cowl hood was not on the window sticker.
Bryan
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Hum Davisville CBC (Seabees) base was attached to Quonset point Navel Air Station - Qnas and I lived there as a kid at the time this should have been rolling the base or in the North Kingstown area. I wonder if it was one of the ones I saw in friends housing. My Jimmy's Dad had a 69 blue SS big block coupe that they had shipped from Japan and I know there were a ton of Camaros on base but small world. Wish I had 60 grand burning a hole in my pocket and a spare garage bay.
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Can't tell from the posting if its been restored or not.
In the 'Questions' section at the bottom, the seller says the restoration took 3 years.
Wording of main listing text (to me) suggests at least original paint.
A few details of the restoration are incorrect but easily rectified (like fitting large rear bumper guards).
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I inspected this car in person, its real but it's not worth 60K IMO.
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So is the original flat hood included with the car?
Good question. Are the ZL2 parts on the car Re-pop or genuine?
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I inspected this car in person, its real but it's not worth 60K IMO.
Where did you feel the car came up short?
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Quality of work in general. Look at the photos closely, they tell the story.
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Hmm, interesting that is at odds with the title of this topic, but maybe they are relying more on the original docs.
I see the obvious items, hood, X33 scallop trim, wheel well moulding, rear bumper guards, posi sticker, spark plug brackets and smog tubes painted black, the mentioned incorrect master. Was the paint work substandard?
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Austin, please consider the fact that most of us don't have those original papers, window sticker and dealer invoice, and are just wishing that just one of those documents would fall out of the sky. This car was also matching engine, trans, and axle, and correct. The midnight green deluxe makes this combo pretty scarce at minimum also. Yes, the hood, and trim would be a pain in the ass to correct but doable, but the rest of those parts are not that bad to correct. The detail underneath also sucked, but doable. I'm not taking up for anybody, but please consider how hard these papers and numbers are to find, and on a pretty nice Z to boot. If this car had been more correct, what would the price have been? Weigh out the options and factors!
Bryan
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I am with you on the docs, they are scarce, even with cars that have been kept in good condition. But the items you mentioned to go back and do it right? 10k worth of items to fix? Which is mostly paint work I am thinking. So if you bought it for 60 and had another 10 that would be 70k...I am not sure what the top money is for a car like this with docs in this color, just for the fact I haven't seen one to compare it to.
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Its a nice car with easy fixes if you want to putter around when you have time. All the papers and little scrounging for stuff needed. Perfect project for someone. I like it!
If you can imagine that car built with the LIGHT GREEN deluxe comfortweave seats....UGH! That was how mine was built.
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Here you go, a decently restored 69Z with matching numbers for $60k. Seems I've said that before somewhere ;D Makes me wonder why someone would pay $35K for a basket case that needs at least that much for restoration when you can have this for less.
Yeah Austin, you are right, correcting the hood and other things taken for granted like the trim could get expensive. However it's nothing I haven't seen on these cars as most people do an amateur restoration and add this stuff. If you had to pay someone to do it for you it could very well reach the price you have in mind and more if you want to get into undercarriage details. But I'd have to guess that this level of restoration would likely satisfy most buyers looking for a good quality driver with matching numbers to boot.
Mechanical stuff is easy to correct although can get expensive. Things that need corrected on the body with paint work can open a can of worms. Not knowing the brand of paint used (different systems have different mixing formulas) could make paint matching a little more difficult. Depending on the paint quality of the car (have to see in person) Painting other areas may not be hidden that well if there is a difference in quality. At a minimum, painting a new hood you would likely also be painting the tops of the fenders and cowl to "blend" it in. Removing the quarter trim will leave holes that need to be welded. You'll get into painting that entire quarter with no real good place to "break" it up near the rear sail (no vinyl top or other trim) So careful blending will need to be done.
Tough to do properly and may still be detectable to a good eye. Doing both quarters and hood, tops of fenders etc... You are damn near painting the whole car at this point, lol. In this case, if the quality of the paint job is "driver" quality anyway, I'd most likely suggest just reshooting the whole car to make it right.
Yeah, adds up in a hurry. So it might be one to just leave alone unless someone is ready to spend some coin. In which case I wouldn't have paid that much money for the car. I'd bet whom ever bought it doesn't care about the hood or the trim and like it just the way it is, in which case they did pretty good on that buy.
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Some buyers will pay big for numbers and paper. But Perfect cars without don't bring squat unless it's a resto-mod. All depends on what does it for you.
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So what would a docs car like this car bring if the holes were filled and the paint was re-shot correctly?
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Hard to say, but for the buyers sake, if in fact he plans to correct things, I'd hope he could get about $70-75k when (or if) the time comes so he could at least break even after the repairs and corrections.
If the market won't bare that much then he's better off leaving the car alone or he'll get in over his head pretty quick at the purchase price he paid for it.
With that said, a car like this wasn't a bad buy as is, as I believe a restoration like this one would satisfy about 80% of potential buyers out there. Only a few really care if it had a flat hood or no external trim so it's really not worth all the trouble to correct those things when you look at the grand scheme of things. Just drive it and enjoy it.
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Sold 8-25-15 for $60,100.00
Paul
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Hard to say, but for the buyers sake, if in fact he plans to correct things, I'd hope he could get about $70-75k when (or if) the time comes so he could at least break even after the repairs and corrections.
If the market won't bare that much then he's better off leaving the car alone or he'll get in over his head pretty quick at the purchase price he paid for it.
With that said, a car like this wasn't a bad buy as is, as I believe a restoration like this one would satisfy about 80% of potential buyers out there. Only a few really care if it had a flat hood or no external trim so it's really not worth all the trouble to correct those things when you look at the grand scheme of things. Just drive it and enjoy it.
It all about why you why want the car to begin with. If it's about making money, or you are obsessed with whether you are going to re-coup your investment, you're in the wrong hobby. Suppose you invest another 25K in the car to make it "near perfect", and then enjoy it for 5 or 10 years and sell it for say 70K. Yes, you spent more on the car than what you get back in return. What about the enjoyment of driving and showing it over that period? Is there another hobby that your net cost is going to be $0? It's like buying a house and making every decision about investing in it based on ROI. If you install a new kitchen, you're probably not going to re-coup the investment. What about the fact that you live there every day? Isn't that worth something as well?
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X2
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There's a difference in being smart about something and just blowing money, there's a fine line there.
But I think you missed my point, that wasn't what I was trying to convey. Only looking at both sides of the fence with an open mind and laying out just some of the cost involved in doing so and why it may or may not be a good idea. Making money wasn't the goal here, but everyone wants to recoup investments.
Personally I'd just leave the car as is and enjoy. It's just not worth the expense to correct things that most people don't even care about anyway. If you're a concours by the book type of collector then you likely wouldn't have bought this car in the first place.
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I think the reason Bryan posted about this Z was besides looking good, it had some good docs to go along with it, and the original drive train. Now a days hard to find a Z that is numbers matching, let alone one with docs.
I agree with Larry though, it is the best case scenario if you are at least breaking even with these cars in this "hobby".
So on the spectrum of car deals this one looked like more of sure thing as far as return on investment if it was run as is, because of the drive train and docs, based on the purchase price of 60k. I think the buyer did alright.
My thoughts were just trying to speculate if this car had been correctly restored, how much more could/would it have gone up to?
Also Danzo was very polite saying there were things that could have been better about the car, so I was trying to figure what those were beyond what we could see and again try to figure out how fixable they are and how much more money somebody would have into it trying to correct them.
We all have a first gen and weather you are Bentley and in the resto phase, or Jimmy V and Darrell with a show worthy cars , we all like following the market and seeing how much these cars bring based on originality and other factors. So that is the angle I was coming from. :)
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Understood Austin. I'm as curious as the next guy and try to pay attention. I thought it was nice of Danzo to explain things about the car after seeing it in person since we can only tell so much from pics. Seems they all take the liberties of adding cowl hoods, exterior trim, spoilers, and console/gauges to these cars. Unfortunately some of those things are pretty expensive to reverse. The good news is that adding these things doesn't seem to adversely affect the prices of these cars. For those reasons only is why I suggested leaving it alone. I don't mean to come across as one sided. I like them either way. When I'm dealing with restorations, I just try not to spend customers money unnecessarily if it's not needed. However I'm not here to stop them from blowing money if they really want to ;D
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Well at least with this one, you can tell how it came by the window sticker. I agree I would like to see the cars as they came with out all the add ons, but that may be easy for me to say because i have the ZL-2 hood from the factory... ;)
I did look at a very original red Z prior to mine that was a flat hood car, I may have wanted to put the ZL-2 on that car if I had bought it. it was very clean with black deluxe interior. The paint had a bit of checking and build up. I wonder what happened to that car, and if it is still running that flat hood. Good looking car, just like this one. I feel the hood doesn't make this car, that "look at me" green paint sure does though.
Dave (another CRG-er) has a great looking Rally Green car.
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Makes me wonder why someone would pay $35K for a basket case that needs at least that much for restoration when you can have this for less.
I found this Z interesting also since it had so many doc's. I thought the $60K seemed fair for what it had and needed. But of course seeing in person as Danzo had may make one think different.
As far as why one would pay $35K for a basket case. I think there's several ways to look at it as I'm one of those who dropped $30K on a basket case.
Yeah spend $60K, drive the heck out of it and enjoy it for what it is. Knowing that it's not "ALL ORIGINAL" parts (but a very nice driver) and still one day may warrant an addition $15-$20K in resto in reproduction parts. And then there's my thoughts. One..I don't have $70-$100K burning a hole in my pocket..lol Two.. I'm so dang anal that I'd rather spend $30-35K on a project and dump another $30K over a few years. At least I'll know that it was done correctly and not just shoved out the door for a fast buck. And last... I have the ability to complete a resto myself except for the final paint (only cause I don't have a booth), so a $30K drop was much easier. If I drop only another $30K, I'll have a True Z with all born with parts and drive-line at less than $70K... To me, hard to find !
I searched high and low and found a Z with every factory line part (except the battery), right down to the wing nut that holds the spare. Hard to find with so many of the orig's parts IMO. Everything is pretty much salvageable and rebuildable except a few obvious things such as carpet, wiring harnesses and headliner. I'm still waiting to see or hear of another Dusk Blue with a white top, flat hood and no rear spoiler ! :)
Again....JMO
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You guys with your white vinyl tops..... I think you and Jimmy V. May have to start your own club... ;D
Kinda like the HO guys
J/k with you, your right white vinyl is rarely seen today. I think the yellow white stripe car a saw a few months back with the white vinyl was also a low production color choice.
I see where you are coming from. Your lucky to have such a complete car, even if you got all the parts loose. Shoot the whole car may be worth more in loose parts if you priced them all out.....haha
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You guys with your white vinyl tops..... I think you and Jimmy V. May have to start your own club... ;D
Kinda like the HO guys
J/k with you, your right white vinyl is rarely seen today. I think the yellow white stripe car a saw a few months back with the white vinyl was also a low production color choice.
I see where you are coming from. Your lucky to have such a complete car, even if you got all the parts loose. Shoot the whole car may be worth more in loose parts if you priced them all out.....haha
When I was first looking for a Z, I would have preferred the red/black combo. Just turned out I found this one. Had no idea it would be as unusual as it is. My top is original, and while it's not bad, it has plenty of flaws. And white doesn't hide it's flaws very well.
I too wonder which is worth more, the car as it is, or the parts sold individually?
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I can't argue with the 'worth' statement (parts vs whole car), a car in parts is worth probably half of what it would be if totally assembled~ .. BUT.. I would add that there's a huge difference in the effort to sell 'parts' vs selling an entire automobile.. not to mention the idea of 'preserving' an automobile, vs making one disappear into thousands of parts...
PS. I have too many cars, especially for one of my age (67), and I chose to sell one of my complete cars (rather than one needing restoration) even though I sometimes question my energy level to do the restorations required. If anyone might be interested in a very nice 1990 ZR-1 with only 27K miles... check out Craig's list for Huntsville AL.. :)
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Relisted, apparently due to non-payment by highest bidder.
Starting bid $60,000 with Buy It Now of $67,500
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231670191136
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Interesting that it was re-listed. I wonder if all the bidding was real...
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One time only listing......then going into my collection?
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Interesting that it was re-listed. I wonder if all the bidding was real...
Austin, don't you recognize the non-paying high bidder? It's "thegmparts" again! Super scammer!
Paul
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Is that the guy out of Angola Indiana? I almost got scammed by him. I think I am one of the few that guy a full refund, but then again I was just out side his shop stalking him, when I lived in Indiana...
I think Ebay give you the opportunity to sell it to the 2nd highest bidder if the high bidder drops out, I am guessing that didn't work either.
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Gary, let me know when that orange car with the funny head lights is on Craigslist!
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Is that the guy out of Angola Indiana? I almost got scammed by him. I think I am one of the few that guy a full refund, but then again I was just out side his shop stalking him, when I lived in Indiana...
Yup, that's him.
Paul
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Gary, let me know when that orange car with the funny head lights is on Craigslist!
:) I don't think that will be happening, but your post does deserve a 'reward'... :) so here's a Sunday Funny for ya! :)
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A young blonde girl in her late teens, wanting to earn some extra money for the summer, decided to hire herself out as a "handy woman" and started canvassing a nearby well-to-do neighborhood. She went to the front door of the first house and asked the owner if he had any odd jobs for her to do.
"Well, I guess I could use somebody to paint the porch" Bill said.
"How much will you charge me?" Delighted, the girl quickly responded, "How about $50 ?" Bill agreed and told her that the paint and brushes and everything she would need were in the garage.
Bill's wife, hearing the conversation, said to her husband, "Does she realize that our porch goes ALL the way around the house?" "That's a bit cynical, isn't it?" he responded. The wife replied,
"You're right. I guess I'm starting to believe all those dumb blonde jokes."
A few hours later the blonde came to the door to collect her money.
You're finished already??" the startled Bill asked. Yes," the blonde replied, "and I even had paint left over so I gave it two coats."
Impressed, Bill reached into his pocket for the $50 and handed it to her along with a $10 tip.
Thank you," the blonde said, "And, by the way, it's not a Porch, it's a '69 Camaro Z28, but I liked it better burgundy than white!"
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Gary !!... LMAO ;D
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That's good. It's also funny I just had a younger than me woman paint my porch! No wife here to add unnecessary comments tho!
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Interesting that it was re-listed. I wonder if all the bidding was real...
Austin, don't you recognize the non-paying high bidder? It's "thegmparts" again! Super scammer!
Paul
So what's the scam? He bids on his own auctions to raise the price? Or is there more here than I know?
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The ebay winning bidder is a notorious scammer, not the seller.
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=75271
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I don't really follow ebay much at all but all the horror stories I read it seems to me their reputation is in the toilet with all this scam stuff going on nowadays. Guess that's why I hear it called "fleabay" quite often.
When I'm looking for a car I don't even do the ebay thing. If it's on there for a "buy it now" or offered at a price with a "best offer" option, I'll look at it. If there is any bidding at all, I'm not the least bit interested in the car and I'll keep looking else where. Guess I'm still old school and just prefer the old classifieds and looking at things in person. Name your price and lets deal kind of guy without all the monkey business.
Shame there are so many shady people out there.
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Well I for one really like eBay. In some sense it brings the swap meet to you. For years and years when I was kid I would have to go to swap meets and deal with these old guys who thought their rusty crap was gold because it was for a Mustang or Camaro. Ebay has humbled a lot of these guys, you can watch an auction get posted a few times with no bids because the opening price is to high, and then email the guy and offer a price. I have gotten many good deals this way. There is a chance when bidding for sure, but with the return policy for poor description, and paypal securing your funds, I have hardly had a time where I got junk and had to keep it.
For this car, I am not sure why Greg Long would have bid.
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I guess I really am old school then, I still love to do the swap meets and see first hand what I'm getting before I buy. I was going to say next time I'm in Pomona we should hook up, but that doesn't sound like it's doable.
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I have been to pomona, I would try it again, But I wasn't really impressed after walking it for 2 hours and not a good deal to be had.
I like going to swap meets where the items are priced to sell. All to often most of sellers hardly sell anything and pack up everything they brought and bring it home. They don't seem to realize they are priced to high, especially when you see how many people turn up for each meet.
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Does anyone know what Greg Long's current Ebay name is ? I had a couple of them but they are no longer valid.
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Charley the relisted eBay wording stated the non-paying high bidder was 'thegmparts'.
http://www.ebay.com/usr/thegmparts
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Relisted, apparently due to non-payment by highest bidder.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231670191136
9-1-15: "This listing was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available."
Paul