CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Restoration => Topic started by: ko-lek-tor on August 20, 2015, 04:20:48 AM
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I thought I would share a few pics of some work done on my car. B. There is a bad gap where LH door meets 1/4. Waiting on hinge pins kit to tighten up door. Not sure what the problem is yet as this is not how it was before the 1st guy did the work on this door.
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and...
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Door before. Also PBT stamp-someone got creative as T is inverted and B is superimposed over the T ,pic does not show real well. P is over a dimple in firewall. T is to left of P and upside down. Picture the T upside down and along the vertical leg of the T they put the straight edge of the B over it.
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Looking good!! Glad to see no spoiler!!
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Other than adding VE3 & L78, I am being true to 'how it came'. A true Restoration, not a 'cookie cutter' over embellished, lost it's identity type ride.
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You mean like a clone.. :o :P
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That's awesome Bentley. I'm happy to see your progress! Are the quarters and/or rockers original or do I remember you saying the quarters were replaced back in the 80s?
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I thought I would share a few pics of some work done on my car. B. There is a bad gap where LH door meets 1/4. Waiting on hinge pins kit to tighten up door. Not sure what the problem is yet as this is not how it was before the 1st guy did the work on this door.
Bentley, we found the hinge pin kits to be nothing like the originals and used a donor. Not a big deal but hated to change the look, hence the donor route.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/Body%20Assembly%20and%20Paint/100_0487_zps1fysmw1a.jpg) (http://s192.photobucket.com/user/1-2-b-67L89/media/68%20Camaro%20Z28/Body%20Assembly%20and%20Paint/100_0487_zps1fysmw1a.jpg.html)
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Chick, you know I would have preferred the "donor" route myself. And if any one has some good LH hinges PM me.(oops,is that an ad?).
I need them to keep body work progress going. Difficult to find with age of car and known problem area.
Cook DW...clone, hmph!..you'll get yours buddy.....LOL
Hawk, Yes your memory is still sharp, 1/4s put on in '83
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Willie makes his own detent rollers and other parts. http://www.hoodhingerepair.com/ I send 67 hinges to him because they are different from 68 and 69. His procedure is better than factory. He bronze bushes the detent rollers on 67's. For what he charges it is not worth my time to rebuild them. 67-69 OTC kits are not as good as his. Not sure why a shop would proceed with bodywork without doing the hinges first.
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Keep up the progress Bentley! I hope your getting excited, I know the rest of us are looking forward to seeing it complete.
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not sure why a shop would proceed with bodywork without doing the hinges first.
Scott, You are exactly right. The work is held up till I get the hinges done. They (shop) have worked on other issues in the mean time. They are the ones that told me nothing else can be done till the hinges are fixed.That is why I ordered what I did, only to find out I did it wrong, because I need a solution and pretty quick, these guys move quicker than the last guy because I would have had another 8 mos. to do the hinges had it still been there . I thought the repair kit was my only option short of buying repro hinges. Anyone tht has a decent set of hinges or will exchange, I may have a week to come up with something
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I would contact Willie at http://www.hoodhingerepair.com/
if Sauron recommends him. Sauron sounds like he has had a good experience with the guy.
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Bentley , as long as the pins & bushings are good that shouldn't hold up the door alignment ... Would it, the detent is to hold the door open correct ?
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Bentley , as long as the pins & bushings are good that shouldn't hold up the door alignment ... Would it, the detent is to hold the door open correct ?
I understand your point. I think Chick was wanting to show the quality difference from his pic, not specifically was he talking about the detent, just the hinge pins, but illustrating some inconsistencies. (Thanks, again,chick). My pins and bushings are junk.
I am going down a new path right now of the world of reproduction parts. I am hoping friends on CRG can navigate me in what parts I should buy for accuracy and quality. Up till now, I have only bought or acquired a few non GM parts and I have been very disappointed, to the point, that I avoid repro stuff all together.
But, the time has come that all soft items, from sub-frame mounts to trunk mat to window felts, to vinyl top, etc...you get the point that I will need to buy and I cannot afford NOS when a trunk seal goes for, like, $1200! YIKES! My car is not that desirable that I could justify that kind of outlay for a part. Nor, am I that ,um, crazy to spend that kind of money, although I am about as crazy over 67-9s as you can get.
If these pins I ordered are, like Scott says, inferior and I have a better alternative, this could be costly and problematic. I am the type that likes to do it one time right instead of three times wrong. I get very frustrated.
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Great to see some progress, er, in progress! Car looks really solid. You're going to choose another color though aren't you? ;D
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I've been using pins and bushings from my local jobbers for decades on countless hinges without issue;
so does every other shop I know. Never needed to buy them from a restoration vendor. Like many parts, they have tolerances and if you want zero play you just use the ones in stock that provide a tight hinge. If you are building a non driving, museum piece then you'll have to make them appear like factory parts.
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Have limited examples but what we've found is pin wears that holds the roller on the detent body. The pin reminds you of a wheel stud as it's splined and pressed in. Wear is normally on 1/3 of the pin circumference so it seems logical relocating the detent assembly 180 degrees in the hinge assembly would get one back to normal. The left side pin came out of a NOS door hinge purchased in 1979. The pin seemed to be soft and wore quickly which you can see in the picture on the right side of the pin. The pin to the right is a donor! Note there is some wear that can be noted on the left side of that pin but not like the pin on the left, and both the length and diameter is longer/larger on the donor pin. I used my NOS roller (carbide drilled out the I.D.) and utilized the donor pin and body. The donor roller was pitted! Placed a small file mark on the body to note where the donor pin is like new so it can be oriented correctly when installed.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/68%20Assembly%20Issues/Left%20GM%20serv%20repl_zpsaojz8kxe.jpg) (http://s192.photobucket.com/user/1-2-b-67L89/media/68%20Camaro%20Z28/68%20Assembly%20Issues/Left%20GM%20serv%20repl_zpsaojz8kxe.jpg.html)
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I've been using pins and bushings from my local jobbers for decades on countless hinges without issue;
so does every other shop I know. Never needed to buy them from a restoration vendor. Like many parts, they have tolerances and if you want zero play you just use the ones in stock that provide a tight hinge. If you are building a non driving, museum piece then you'll have to make them appear like factory parts.
My '67's use what looks like nylon bushings on the upper hinge pins only. I have only seen bronze replacements for these.
Mike
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Willie makes his own detent rollers and other parts. http://www.hoodhingerepair.com/ I send 67 hinges to him because they are different from 68 and 69. His procedure is better than factory. He bronze bushes the detent rollers on 67's. For what he charges it is not worth my time to rebuild them. 67-69 OTC kits are not as good as his. Not sure why a shop would proceed with bodywork without doing the hinges first.
willie is awesome! He did the original hinges on my 70Z project. They came out great. Definitely the way to go Bentley. Keep up the good work.
Buddy
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Have limited examples but what we've found is pin wears that holds the roller on the detent body. The pin reminds you of a wheel stud as it's splined and pressed in. Wear is normally on 1/3 of the pin circumference so it seems logical relocating the detent assembly 180 degrees in the hinge assembly would get one back to normal. The left side pin came out of a NOS door hinge purchased in 1979. The pin seemed to be soft and wore quickly which you can see in the picture on the right side of the pin. The pin to the right is a donor! Note there is some wear that can be noted on the left side of that pin but not like the pin on the left, and both the length and diameter is longer/larger on the donor pin. I used my NOS roller (carbide drilled out the I.D.) and utilized the donor pin and body. The donor roller was pitted! Placed a small file mark on the body to note where the donor pin is like new so it can be oriented correctly when installed.
It is best to replace the pin and not rotate it. The worn pin is no longer round so it will not rotate on the bushing correctly There is a lot of pressure on the roller and changing these after a car is completed is time consuming. I have three cars here with worn or snapped pins.
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I agree I have had to do it on a car with finished paint. It was easier just remove the door replace all the worn out pieces and re-install. I made some identifying marks prior to removal so I could get the hinge back to the same spot. Much more preferable to do it prior to paint.
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Bronze bushed '67 new roller by Willie. The white ring is just lube. If the non original bushing, an improved design over factory bothers some, just ask him to eliminate it. The reproduction screw in studs are inferior compared to his pressed in ones.
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All this information and pics is invaluable to me and others, Thanks guys. Somewhere, though, we got off on a tangent about detent rollers.
Scott, I understand and have heard that real tight tolerances can be achieved by mix-and-match of parts. I guess as long as it is as good as when the car was built originally, I will be happy. I do intend to drive the car and probably won't be on my back a lot wiping the frame down. None-The-Less, when I do something, I want it as 'right' as I can make it.
Breaking News: Today, hinge pins arrived along w/ subframe bushings. The brand of the s.f. bushings are Classic Suspension. It is just the rubber sleeved pieces. I ordered separate the washers. All stuff came from HBC. I divulge this as some may have an opinion or advice and can private PM me. Sorry, I already got parts, before asking opinions, but I need to move quick on this. If there is some real problem (not correct, will not fit right, you could have saved$, etc..) or if you want to reply with a kudos (you got the best, that is what I'd use) type comments, then reply in a private PM as well, Thanks!
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Things are coming along. Before and after. Guy saved original fender,welded patch and coated fender with a rust remover (surface). Only problem, amount charged to repair I probably could have bought a NOS? Oh well, that is the problem having someone not familiar with prices doing work.
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Looks great!!
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More :) After it was determined that the repro top dash plate was JUNK, I cut the dash out of the parts car and they took the lip where the windshield sits and welded it to the dash and put the whole thing installed. BTW, A friend told me that the AMD whole dash fit like a glove on his car. May have gone that route, but guy doing work did not want to wait another 10-11 days for ship. Free ship from JEG'S.
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last :) So far,
NOS= RH fender,RH door skin,header(nose piece), both 1/4s, cowl panel, RS grille, core support.
Born with= LH fender*,door,roof rockers,tail panel, inner fenders L&R, all RS metal except main tank.
GM replaced used= dash,hood,lower valence, RS tank*
Reproduction= L&R front floor pan, RH toe panel patch,RH rear floor pan, center trunk pan.
* fender was replaced in a LH corner collision in car's early life which damaged RS tank and front door LH (door was repaired, dented tank replaced)
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Very nice. Keep it all moving forward buddy
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Great progress Bentley. Do you happen to know what primer (epoxy?) your body guy is using?
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Now you're talking Bentley! Looking real good. As far as the fender repair cost... That's a bummer, but at least you have your born with fender. If someone said they could repair my original part for the same price as a NOS part, I'd be hard pressed not to have my original part repaired. There's something to be said for having the same parts it rolled off the line with. Repaired or not.
Your dash looks like it came out real nice.
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rolling right along. fender looks good. Who is to say your guy would not of had time in another fender straightening it out.
BTY gotta a pair of single piston front calipers and lines on the Z now, going back to the 4 pistons, welcome to them if you need them. Every bit helps. PM me if you need them.
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Side question. Jano did you have any sleeve your 4 piston cal's?
BTW next pics better be with some color in them.. ;) Seriously though it is looking really good.
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Great progress Bentley. Do you happen to know what primer (epoxy?) your body guy is using?
I can ask, Tim. I thought DP90, but knowing how my experience with these body guys seems to go, it could be I am paying for the best stuff and getting the worst, if ya' know what I mean? ;) :o
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BTW next pics better be with some color in them.. ;) Seriously though it is looking really good.
Thanks D.W. and all that are encouraging...not sure I will ever see paint on this thing? Seems the guy really enjoys spending money as long as it is mine!
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That is another reason why I will be painting the red car myself.. Hang in there. You are closer now than you were 3 months or 3 years ago!!!!
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Foundation is everything. And everything is expensive :P
Original calipers gone for around 26 years, shop misplaced them. Wanted to convert to the single pistons for a couple of reasons. So, when they were off the car, took them in to get rebuilt. Sat on my buddy's desk for a few months, then lost. Believe they made way with a core shipment by accident. He more then made good with me over the years, things happen.
Got a pair from Lonestar a few months ago.
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Bentley,
Your car is looking good and I remember mine at that stage. Glad to see you going forward with progress and best wishes.
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Looks good!
The door bolts don't look like the original style. I assume they are just temporary placeholders (doorholders?) for now?
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Looks good!
The door bolts don't look like the original style. I assume they are just temporary placeholders (doorholders?) for now?
Geez...ya' have to notice everything? I would think by now you would have recognized those! For those of you who don't know, those are the rare X20/Z21 1/2 areodynamic door hinge bolts! ;D...and you thought the only BS code on that car was the rear axle?
Appreciate all encouragement and constructive criticism. On another site, James (1st genaddict) said he uses 1 stage paint on solid colors. I am going to explore this as the time is near to making a decision. Another likes Dupont Centari, yet another prefers Sikkens. I am sooo confused. I want a factory look (yet better, IYKWIM) and the sky is not the limit in my budget...more like Krylon,lol. I feel a new post coming on.
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Looks good!
The door bolts don't look like the original style. I assume they are just temporary placeholders (doorholders?) for now?
Geez...ya' have to notice everything? I would think by now you would have recognized those! For those of you who don't know, those are the rare X20/Z21 1/2 areodynamic door hinge bolts! ;D...and you thought the only BS code on that car was the rear axle?
Appreciate all encouragement and constructive criticism. On another site, James (1st genaddict) said he uses 1 stage paint on solid colors. I am going to explore this as the time is near to making a decision. Another likes Dupont Centari, yet another prefers Sikkens. I am sooo confused. I want a factory look (yet better, IYKWIM) and the sky is not the limit in my budget...more like Krylon,lol. I feel a new post coming on.
I agree with James... single stage for solid (non metallic) colors... Can be worked to appear very much like original lacquer but tougher...
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I think you made a good choice repairing and using your original fender. I plan on doing the same thing as my fender is in need of repairs. It's great that your camaro is on its way to being restored. You'll be driving and enjoying it before you know it. Good luck
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You see Bentley, now you are the guy that other members are watching to get a car done, to inspire them.
The glass can't be half empty forever....once you are more than half way (painted), and all you have left is reassembly then the glass will be half full. right? ::)
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Car is well past this stage, but a link to pics of floor repair and other stuff done last year.http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/MrLS7/profile