CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: z28z11 on August 20, 2015, 03:17:51 AM
-
I'm not as familiar with Van Nuys built Pace Cars, so you West Coast guys take a gander at this one and tell me what you think. Outside of the dreaded Ford fan sticker, it's a pretty decent looking car, with a number of small details that need changing. My largest questions are trim tag, and the "L" code the seller represents in the ad. Take a look -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z11-RS-SS-Pace-Car-Convertible-California-Car-/121734666830?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276#ht_119078wt_1288
Regards,
Steve
-
Of the 54 known ‘Festival’ Indy Pace Car Replicas all were built at the Norwood, OH [N VIN] plant, zero were built at the Van Nuys, CA plant [L VIN]. The two actual pace cars were also built at Norwood. Makes sense; Norwood is 114 miles from Indy, Van Nuys 2,077 miles. Hard to imagine Chevy would ship a car all the way from CA when there were plenty of them available two hours from the track. There are no production records for either plant so the “550 Van Nuys Pace Cars” claim is a guess. There is nothing special or rare about a Van Nuys built Z11.
The car itself is average, not really restored. The undercarriage lacks detail; exhaust system is muffler shop junk. It’s missing the D96 striping, rear bumper guards, ducted hood wiring and flapper door, fender to core support braces, rear vibration canisters, door wedges, and horns. Wheels appear to be incorrect 15”. There are many detail errors: fasteners, clamps, paint, labels.
Maybe less time writing the ad and more time on the car would have been a better strategy.
-
The 550 # is from my article - http://www.camaros.org/69pacer.shtml#ID
Car appears real, but can't see squat in that pad picture.
-
VIN: 124679L526711
Paul
-
The car itself is average, not really restored. The undercarriage lacks detail; exhaust system is muffler shop junk. It’s missing the D96 striping, rear bumper guards, ducted hood wiring and flapper door, fender to core support braces, rear vibration canisters, door wedges, and horns. Wheels appear to be incorrect 15”. There are many detail errors: fasteners, clamps, paint, labels.
Maybe less time writing the ad and more time on the car would have been a better strategy.
William,
Are you saying the car is incorrect / not what it is advertised to be?
Your points above are well taken. When I first read your post I expected to see a basket case. In reality, I see what looks like a very nice car, IMO significantly more than average, not-withstanding the issues that you raise.
Richard
-
Assuming it passes the usual VIN verifications I have no question it really is a Van Nuys Z11. The disconnect here is the asking price is well above average; the car is below average in build quality. 350/automatic is the most common Z11 power train; auction average for those is in the mid-$50s. Real 396 Z11s are rarer and more valuable. A 396/auto Van Nuys Z11 sold for $121,000 at B-J Scottsdale this year and I thought it was well-bought. L78 Z11s have sold for $149,000 and $187,000. 396 Z11s are in their own league and cannot be included in average price calculations.
In my opinion the car in question could easily be significantly improved with a small investment of time and money. Many of the missing parts are common and easily located. Biggest problem would be locating an automatic air cleaner, 14" x 7" rally wheels and the convertible shakers. Hard to tell from photos but paint and bodywork appear to be of good quality. I'm sure the interior is all repro but it is also fairly well-done with only a few small details to attend to. The engine bay has many missing and incorrect parts but nothing too difficult to find. The undercarriage would be a challenge but a proper exhaust system is a good start.
I'm sure some people don't care to see criticism on these sites. My position is the hobby should police itself. When I see questionable body tags, engine stampings or poorly done over-hyped cars I am going to speak up. For some reason many people wait until after the purchase to have a car inspected. Lots of buyer's remorse these days.
-
I'm sure some people don't care to see criticism on these sites. My position is the hobby should police itself. When I see questionable body tags, engine stampings or poorly done over-hyped cars I am going to speak up. For some reason many people wait until after the purchase to have a car inspected. Lots of buyer's remorse these days.
Respectful criticism and helpful critiquing is refreshing... I know I would rather not be the Emperor from "The Emperor's new clothes."
-
William,
I look forward to the good work, Keep it up. I am here for the straight forwardness on this site.
Thank you,
Victor
-
Well it sold to best offer but it is not listed what that offer was. I guess I was confused that it was being marketed as a festival car and not the winners prize car awarded to Mario Andretti.
As said it is in great shape albeit missing a few key parts. I would say drop the flag holders and restore the guards, fix the wheels, fender braces, air cleaner, interior window cranks, replace the top rear split glass window with original style plastic and ditch the aftermarket radio and you would have special Z11 with added history, but as it was maybe 45 to 50k IMHO. Wonder if we will ever know what the best offer was. :)
-
The ad was extremely misleading. It was neither a festival car nor the winners' car.
-
Its typical fodder you'd see for sale at a Russo Steele auction. Great looking driver, but thats it. The lack of rarity would preclude it from investing the money to make it Concours, but bought right I'd enjoy the hell out of it
-
Careful reading and attention to the photos indicated to me that Mario posed with, and signed, the sellers car during a 'Pace Car' 'reunion at the track .. perhaps at a 25th anniversary of the '69 Indy race?? and Yes, the seller seemed to have taken some pains to get wording that could easily be misinterpreted without coming right out and telling untruths! :)
-
Well Gary, I guess that was pretty" politically correct" way to say that. You know now a days we're not allowed to offend anyone........
-
I noticed several "fixable mistakes" in the first glances at the photos that weren't mentioned yet. Not beating the car down as I have no interest in owning it, merely an observation. I wonder how many '69 Pace Cars Mario sat in and/or signed that day...maybe just two...one WITH the correct side stripes, and one WITHOUT. Seems to be a fairly early car as far as Pace Cars go, did I see O3B? ...520 something VIN? Still not a bad car to own and address the issues and take it to the next level.
-
What percentage of 69 Camaro production does Z11 represent?
-
What percentage of 69 Camaro production does Z11 represent?
Approximately 0.015118%
Paul
-
.. approximately.... :) :) :)