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Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: mopar346 on July 26, 2015, 01:26:59 PM

Title: How bad does color change hurt a first generation Camaro?
Post by: mopar346 on July 26, 2015, 01:26:59 PM
Good morning all,

As my user name indicates I'm a Mopar guy, I haven't been around in a awhile but some may remember me. Anyway I have a 69 RS that I think we determined was not a RS/SS sometime back. I have been offered a 67 RS for what seems like decent money but just not as up on prices to make an informed decision. I guess to be clear I'm not really that interested in the car so this is more for my education, if anyone is interested in the car I have some pictures I would share. My knowledge of the car starts when I was eating lunch in a diner in Boyertown, PA with one of my service managers and a lady overheard the conversations and spoke up "I have this car for sale". Now that can always be interesting so I of course explored further. I guess she bought it at Carlisle earlier in the year and decided old car ownership isn't for her. Here is what I know about the car:

67 rs
327/275 horse
muncie
12 bolt (pretty sure from the picture but no dead on clear picture)
Originally marina blue with blue gut (now BUrgundy with black deluxe - hence the question about color change)
Has the data tag but attached with the wrong rivots (clearly a flag to check body numbers)
Reported 26k on the clock (her uninformed stance is the title doesn't say exempt so it must be correct ::))
"Restored", looks very presentable in the pictures but has most know personal inspection will tell the truth about the build
It's wearing turque thrust in a comfortable size
Ask is $27k

So my question is how does color change hurt an early Camaro, in the Mopar world it can be death to the top money. With that said, it really doesn't matter on low level cars such as slant 6 or 318 cars (no offense to anyone), clones or street cars, they sale on more curb appeal than numbers. The higher level or elite car prices can actually suffer to the level of the cost of a teardown and repaint which now a days can render a car valueless in some eyes. In some cases curb appeal has less significance than correctness, not saying whether it's right or not just stating a fact as I understand it. If nothing more if will narrow the pool of potential buyers so it reduces demand, in the end though it only takes one person hot for it for it to sale and get good money. I personally am not a complete slave to the thought but return cars to there original color when doing them and although I wouldn't not buy a color change car, I would use it as leverage and would pay significantly under value or I would walk. So how does it effect early Camaros and maybe specifically this car? I've been told by a friend that buys and sales muscle cars (predominently Chevys) that this is a $20-30k car depending on the lever of restoration and of course verifying that it is not a re-body (another death in the Mopar world, not sure how much Chevy people care), but I never really got an answer on the color change question.

Title: Re: How bad does color change hurt a first generation Camaro?
Post by: maroman on July 26, 2015, 02:21:26 PM
If you don't want the car don't buy it. If you do color change doesn't matter.
Title: Re: How bad does color change hurt a first generation Camaro?
Post by: william on July 26, 2015, 04:32:20 PM
For now I would be far more concerned with the tag being removed. There is a correlation between the date on the tag and the VIN so get photos of both. If they seem to be in synch remove the cowl panel and not only check the partial VIN stamp, look under it with an inspection mirror for signs of tampering like welding. Re-bodies are not well received here either.

An L30 327 would have been built with a Saginaw 4-speed so if it is a Muncie it is not OE.

As for a color change you're correct; the impact of it increments with perceived value. At this price point not that big a deal but it is a curious change. Marina Blue was [est. 10.5%] one of the more popular colors; Madeira Maroon not so much.

Proceed with caution.
Title: Re: How bad does color change hurt a first generation Camaro?
Post by: BULLITT65 on July 26, 2015, 04:36:55 PM
27K seems like the high end of the Market for the car if it was in the correct colors, and restored somewhat nicely.
It seems to me a 60's Musclecar/ pony car rule of thumb would be the more desirable/sought after the car, the more original paint color plays a factor in the value or in the price they will get for the car.
Of corse it only takes one person (like this Lady) to say they like it and buy it.
Would she still have bought it had she known the tag may not be original to the car and it had the wrong color combo on it, and if it was pointed out this may adversely affect the price when she sells it?
Possibly.

So it seems to me that one person who may buy some of these incorrect cars usually falls into the category of uneducated, or fooled by someone trying to pass the car off as "original".

The 27K is actually the lower end of price manipulation, when you factor in all the guys who change a plain 69 Camaro into a Z/28 or SS. Seems like they easily double the price of the car, and many, many buyers get taken.
Where is this a non-factor? I would say a pro-touring car or "pro street" type of car it probably has no bearing. But even plain jane Camaros if kept all original can command more money in stock appearance.
I have seen a handful of original Camaros painted red, similar to Corvettes painted red, and I think again to the uninformed buyer, it is less of an issue.

I also am somewhat knowledgable about 65-66 Mustangs, and it is a non factor until you get into the more highly optioned cars, like GT or K-codes, for the most part.

So yes, it does affect the value, but there are a pool of buyers who want a certain look, and are less concerned about original color.
Hope this helps.



Title: Re: How bad does color change hurt a first generation Camaro?
Post by: mopar346 on July 27, 2015, 12:09:56 AM
Thank you for the input folks. like I said no real interest in the car but anytime a decent car is offered to me I have to consider it and at least make sure it's not a really rare car or a steal. I have a high percentage of the parts I need for my 69 collected up so I should start on it in the next car or two.

Muncie is my assumption, I can double check if I look at the car.
Title: Re: How bad does color change hurt a first generation Camaro?
Post by: Stingr69 on July 30, 2015, 01:01:52 PM
Really nice correct examples will have a price deduction from full value equal to the market value of a correct example minus the cost to change it back to original color. 

Mine is a different color by choice.  I can assure you, nobody here is worried about the diminution in value.  Non-100% original cars have much less of a deduction for being a different color. Once you get away from 100% correct matching number original, the water gets pretty muddy fast. It just does not matter as much in that situation. Some color combinations are just ugly and different colors can actually help value in some cases.  Pretty but somewhat incorrect cars with the wrong paint color will always find a buyer. 
Title: Re: How bad does color change hurt a first generation Camaro?
Post by: Fred Mertz on July 31, 2015, 01:28:11 AM
If you have a numbers matching all original car I would not change the color.  If the car is non-stock I don't see a problem in changing the color.  My '69 Camaro is far from stock.  I would not have purchased it if it had been it's original Burnished Brown.  I'm glad it had been repainted Dover white.  Dave