CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: dannystarr on May 08, 2015, 07:52:40 PM
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Looking through some old files and noticed I never got an answer on this. I can't tell if it's a letter " G " or a number " 6 " ? Didn't see anything else in the same area. And if it is either, what does it mean?.. Danny
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It's a "6" for 6 cylinder car!!! ;D
Paul
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that's the way it looked to me also.... :)
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I hope you are BOTH joking !!! .. D
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They are both running the same 6 cylinder as you.... :P
(302 ) ;)
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Sorry Danny... we were just pulling two of your cylinders.. er.. your leg! :)
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I get it, but for a quick second there my stomach dropped. Then I realized it was a joke when I seen the happy faces icon.
Anybody else know what it is??... D
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How about 'b' for butternut?
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How about 'b' for butternut?
I'd rather have a 6 cylinder Camaro then a butternut yellow one! :D
Paul
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You didn't specify which was the questionable character... the first or second?
For example...
G6 would be Green interior paint X66 trim.
G3 Green interior paint X33 trim
G7 Green interior paint X77 trim.
R6 Red interior paint X66 trim
B6 blue interior paint X66 trim
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You didn't specify which was the questionable character... the first or second?
For example...
G6 would be Green interior paint X66 trim.
G3 Green interior paint X33 trim
G7 Green interior paint X77 trim.
R6 Red interior paint X66 trim
B6 blue interior paint X66 trim
I believe this is true. It seems like early 69's did that. Makes sense to me but I don't think CRG has enough research or data to back it up at this time. I have a Light Green interior car and it has "LG7" there. The Fisher body paint trim line would need to know the color to paint on the exposed interior metal surfaces so how else were they given a clue? You can see the interior paint color thru the air vents for example. Had to be noted somewhere for the Fisher side paint shop.
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I have personally seen them on cars as early as October 1968 and as late as June of 1969 so I don't know about the early comment... seems to me Norwood did it near the entire run.
I believe there is enough data to tell what they mean, other's usually chime in on this as well... if there were not enough data to be REASONABLY SURE I wouldn't reply.
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James,
For reference and clarity:
I have a 10A of '68 car. Empirical evidence seems to show many later production examples have "X3" or "X7" or some other X followed by the number character written there. No mention of the interior color code in the grease pencil marks later in the run. Not scientific, but that is what I have seen. I assume another process for communicating the color selection was in place later.
CRG references do not have any mention of this subject. Jerry's books have no mention on the subject either. I have been looking at this for much longer than I want to remember. Going back at least 2 generations of the CRG web site.
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I have personally seen them on cars as early as October 1968 and as late as June of 1969 so I don't know about the early comment... seems to me Norwood did it near the entire run.
I believe there is enough data to tell what they mean, other's usually chime in on this as well... if there were not enough data to be REASONABLY SURE I wouldn't reply.
Just to back up your comment.
My old 69 was an Oct build 69 and it had the X code (well it was DG1) on the bulk head. Ill see if I can dig up a pic when I get home.
Another question - Did you happen to see anything on the black vert you did the restoration on? I can't remember ever seeing anything on the 2 pace cars back when my father restored them in the 90's & early 2000's..
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James,
For reference and clarity:
I have a 10A of '68 car. Empirical evidence seems to show many later production examples have "X3" or "X7" or some other X followed by the number character written there. No mention of the interior color code in the grease pencil marks later in the run. Not scientific, but that is what I have seen. I assume another process for communicating the color selection was in place later.
CRG references do not have any mention of this subject. Jerry's books have no mention on the subject either. I have been looking at this for much longer than I want to remember. Going back at least 2 generations of the CRG web site.
My 10B Oct 68 Z has only "X3" No reference to color, interior or exterior. My VIN is 516355. Could be pretty close to yours.
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Oct of 69 build car.
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I'm sorry I neglected to the X derivatives - X1 X2 X3 X4 X5 X6 X7.
X = black interior trim, which was used with blk std, blk dlx, blk htooth, white htooth, orange Htooth, white std, yellow Htooth, and any other color which had black interior trim.
RS/Z28 04C 711 blk std X3 clearly visible.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dY1EFoX3QX4/URh-g7dL1vI/AAAAAAAAIsU/oEvt033tqcI/s640-Ic42/69CamaroOriginal%252520012_web.jpg)
I have never seen a car with a color other than black trim have an X on the bulkhead.
If someone has a car with blue red or green interior which shows the X on the bulkhead vs a color abbreviation (R B ltG or G) please provide photos.
Lacking such evidence this issue doesn't have much controversy left.
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Here are the pic's again, as they probably got erased during the website reset. I would have thought by now SOMEONE has to know what this means. Gotta be ton's of research examples, right? .. Danny
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01C X77 LeMans - "X7" on bulkhead. I hope my 12A L78 shows either a 2 or at worst a 6 - never been able to tell otherwise.
Regards,
Steve
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I'm sorry I neglected to the X derivatives - X1 X2 X3 X4 X5 X6 X7.
X = black interior trim, which was used with blk std, blk dlx, blk htooth, white htooth, orange Htooth, white std, yellow Htooth, and any other color which had black interior trim.
RS/Z28 04C 711 blk std X3 clearly visible.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dY1EFoX3QX4/URh-g7dL1vI/AAAAAAAAIsU/oEvt033tqcI/s640-Ic42/69CamaroOriginal%252520012_web.jpg)
I have never seen a car with a color other than black trim have an X on the bulkhead.
If someone has a car with blue red or green interior which shows the X on the bulkhead vs a color abbreviation (R B ltG or G) please provide photos.
Lacking such evidence this issue doesn't have much controversy left.
I like the idea that they were "X" for black interior paint trim and other colors were the exception that needed to be noted for the interior painter. Makes too much sense to be otherwise.
-Mark.
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Sometimes they are difficult to see... There is an X 7 in this photo...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_aD3RwEhDPo/UODmfDpi0ZI/AAAAAAAAAqY/BqPmMin5UDw/s640-Ic42/10D_Z28_X7_bulkhead.jpg)
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Mine has a pretty clean area before the letter or number. So looks like no X for me. I am usually pretty good at finding them, but I just don't see anything else on mine. Found yours in about 10 seconds ;D... D
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yours is a black interior car isn't it?
And the exterior color is? White I am assuming?
Do you think it is under the white paint?
I'm reasonably sure it was written after prime before paint. which I believe is when the TT went on ... they are not primed. as a matter of fact there was something taped to the firewall between the TT rivet holes. when this car was primed.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Huw9G26bNrg/Uok9eV33IAI/AAAAAAAAE2c/hanDWw7Wxxs/s720-Ic42/101_7202.JPG)
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Just to be clear that 69's (to my knowledge) are the only ones that have known codes on the bulkhead.. 67 & 8's had the occasional marking but I do not know the relevance or meanings behind them..
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Here's a couple late 69 X66 pics for you... 08D
(http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q573/SgtHawkUSMC/69%20Camaro%20SS396%20L34/69%20VIN%20Pics/IMG_20150623_213718.jpg) (http://s1164.photobucket.com/user/SgtHawkUSMC/media/69%20Camaro%20SS396%20L34/69%20VIN%20Pics/IMG_20150623_213718.jpg.html)
(http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q573/SgtHawkUSMC/69%20Camaro%20SS396%20L34/69%20VIN%20Pics/IMAG0755.jpg) (http://s1164.photobucket.com/user/SgtHawkUSMC/media/69%20Camaro%20SS396%20L34/69%20VIN%20Pics/IMAG0755.jpg.html)
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Yes I believe you are correct about X codes. But I wasn't thinking there would be one there. I was just hoping someone knew what mine was. This got all off track with X code posting's.. :( Hopefully someone will chime in with some info on MINE... D
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Yes I believe you are correct about X codes. But I wasn't thinking there would be one there. I was just hoping someone knew what mine was. This got all off track with X code posting's.. :( Hopefully someone will chime in with some info on MINE... D
Looks I didn't read your post close enough. With all the talk about X codes I thought I was helping the OP out... Guess not.
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no sweat, just trying to figure it all out
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no sweat, just trying to figure it all out
Danny,
I was waiting for someone else to comment. Your marks are a bit out of position as compared to the rest I have seen. They usually look like they were written by a worker standing next to the car body on the passenger side with one arm through the rear quarter window. Your marking looks to be 100% factory but fairly close to the middle of the car. it is a little out of place. If your interior color was dark green, the "g" would make more sense. If you have an "X66" trim and a black interior, the "6" makes more sense. It may be neither one but that is how I see it. Hard to say much more than that from what is there. Hope this helps.
-Mark.
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Ok, I appreciate that.. I have standard black interior.. I am bummed that nobody knows for sure what this is and what it means. D
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Just to be clear that 69's (to my knowledge) are the only ones that have known codes on the bulkhead.. 67 & 8's had the occasional marking but I do not know the relevance or meanings behind them..
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How about 'b' for butternut?
This reply may have to be moved and start a new topic. Is butternut yellow really that bad???. I guess it is true about"beauty in the eyes of the beholder". Goes to show not everybody loves that color.I for one, do not. But, a nicely trimmed Camaro with this color can look nice. But lets see some comments on this. When I was younger and Chevrolet came out with the " Ocher" color on the 71-71 pickups, I could not stand that color, looked like an old batch of mustard on a corn dog under the bleachers. But today when seeing a nice optioned upper/lower trimmed white on ocher, they kinda leave a little mark on me. So whats the folks say?
I'd rather have a 6 cylinder Camaro then a butternut yellow one! :D
Paul
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Maxfair Maize , butternut yellow,
Ochre my dad's 71 C10 was that color. 71-72 used the same color called it different names.
I'd take Ochre over Butternut yellow any day...
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Come on...Quit trashing Butternut Yellow, .. :( :( ;D ;D
I guess we still have nothing to report. Bummer... D
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Here are the pic's again, as they probably got erased during the website reset. I would have thought by now SOMEONE has to know what this means. Gotta be ton's of research examples, right? .. Danny
No there are not that many examples of this for 68s.
What is the build date of the body?
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No body cares about 68s!!! ;D
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reviving this old thread to add my bulkhead. Looks like an "X", mine has white interior
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Oct Build RS/Z; 10B
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Oops! Oct 68 RS/Z that is.
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Oct Build RS/Z; 10B
ok, now that I see yours, I can almost see the "3" on mine. Are my eyes playing tricks on me, or is it the "power of suggestion" from seeing yours?
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Oct Build RS/Z; 10B
ok, now that I see yours, I can almost see the "3" on mine. Are my eyes playing tricks on me, or is it the "power of suggestion" from seeing yours?
No sir. I can see the three also. Its to the right of the glob of glue.
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Note the Murphy's law effect: Of the two characters, the one you really need to see is the "3". So guess which one is clear: the "X". The "3" is the one that's faded/hard to see.
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Note the Murphy's law effect: Of the two characters, the one you really need to see is the "3". So guess which one is clear: the "X". The "3" is the one that's faded/hard to see.
Oh, believe me, Ol' Murph and I go waaaaay back!
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Bryan302 compiled the data. 8)
If you see info that is missing or incorrect please post up.
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The chart should have interior trim paint color as well... as that is what the first letter represents. B for Blue R for Red DG for Dark Green
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I think mine's the first one on the list. VIN 516355; Black Std interior.
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The chart should have interior trim paint color as well... as that is what the first letter represents. B for Blue R for Red DG for Dark Green
I would just add a footnote to cover the colors..
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The "9/10A" with "LG7" and "722" is actually "8/10A" for an October '68 build "69. :)
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At Bryan302's urging, I was going to remove my back seat and photograph my rear bulkhead, but with the buckets in the car, I was unable to get in sufficiently to get enough leverage/pressure on the bottom of the rear seat bottom to get it released from it's retention.. Anyone got any tips on an easier way to do it... I don't want to remove the front buckets to do this... :(
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Sounds familiar Gary; I've done this and it can be a bear, but I've not had to remove the buckets.
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At Bryan302's urging, I was going to remove my back seat and photograph my rear bulkhead, but with the buckets in the car, I was unable to get in sufficiently to get enough leverage/pressure on the bottom of the rear seat bottom to get it released from it's retention.. Anyone got any tips on an easier way to do it... I don't want to remove the front buckets to do this... :(
It's been years, Gary, but IIRC, I adjusted my front seat so that it would support my arm/shoulder to give me leverage to press back on the lower front edges, one side at a time
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My car has shrunk over the years; I can't get into it like that now.. :) I did have all the seats out at one time (maybe 15 yrs ago) when I replaced the carpets, and I think I recall seeing marks on the rear bulkhead, but at the time, I didn't know of it's significance (and didn't have a camera handy), so I have no photo. I'm certain I'll find X3 or X33, but I'd like to have photographic evidence, and Bryan wants me to enter the data on his listing ... :)
PS. Bryan indicated that interiors that had black portions(?) would be X coded on the bulkhead, but that cars with 'all blue', 'all green', etc.. would have different letters. I'd never understood that distinction before, so I'm anxious to see/record what my orange interior car has. My carpet, dash, hatrack, sail panels, kick panels, and headliner are all black even though the seat covers are orange houndstooth, and the side panels and door panels are orange (with black carpet on the lower part).
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My car has shrunk over the years; I can't get into it like that now.. :) I did have all the seats out at tone time (maybe 15 yrs ago) when I replaced the carpets, and I think I recall seeing marks on the rear bulkhead, but at the time, I didn't know of it's significance (and didn't have a camera handy), so I have no photo. I'm certain I'll find X3 or X33, but I'd like to have photographic evidence, and Bryan wants me to enter the data on his listing ... :)
PS. Bryan indicated that interiors that had black portions(?) would be X coded on the bulkhead, but that car with 'all blue', 'all green', etc.. would have different letters. I'd never understood that distinction before, so I'm anxious to see/record what my orange interior car has. My carpet, dash, hatrack, sail panels, kick panels, and headliner are all black even though the seat covers are orange houndstooth, and the side panels and door panels are orange (with black carpet on the lower part).
That's how mine is Gary except with white houndstooth, Headliner, package tray, carpet etc... are all black.
I've never had the back seat out of mine but I will now, lol. I'll have to check that out and see what is there.
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You can add a few to the list
N633599 RS/Z X3 blk interior 04C
N531,xxx Z28 X7 blk interior 10D early
N578,xxx Yenko X6 blk interior 01B
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Please add these:
9B of 68 X2
3B X4 Yenko
3B X3 RS/Z
9A X3 RS/Z
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If I may ask, please add your paint and interior to each car submitted. If it is X3 for example, please state if it is 711, 712, 713, 727, etc. If it is a colored interior, please state std. or deluxe and number. Just trying to make the list more complete, and it is more interesting to see what the car actually looked like, and how equipped. In the long run for research and archives, it will be more complete also.
We have a update in the making. Larry and Gary, we look forward to your codes. Gary, get you some knee pads if you need them! If you will put your knees on the floor and your shoulder against the back of the front seat, it makes it pretty easy, or easier.
Thanks,
Bryan
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Another data point 69 06A(3rd week) 712(black deluxe) X3
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I think mine's the first one on the list. VIN 516355; Black Std interior.
Interior 711
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Bryan, I think you have mine. 05A X7, 711 interior
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Clearly a small data sample but it does look like "X" for black interior trim paint and other color code letters for non-black interior colors (by exception). Black interior trim paint was very common.
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So did the code also define the rear seat/carpet/interior trim that was to be installed, as Fisher did this part of the assembly?
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I believe the numeral related to the X code. There is not enough data to see if that follows
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So did the code also define the rear seat/carpet/interior trim that was to be installed, as Fisher did this part of the assembly?
Nope. X-codes were unrelated to the interior - they defined exterior features. Interior features/colors/trim combinations at Fisher were defined on the UOIT sheet (Fisher's version of a broadcast copy).
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Clearly a small data sample but it does look like "X" for black interior trim paint and other color code letters for non-black interior colors (by exception). Black interior trim paint was very common.
Yes black interior trim paint for all the houndstooth combos, black dlx blk std, white std,
711,712,713,714,720,727, & 729 - should use a X
715&716 -should use a B
718&719 -should use a R
723&725 -should use a G or DG
721&722 -should use a LG
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I do appreciate this thread very much. This question has been on my mind for decades and it looks to me like the answer is finally here. Thank you to all that participated.
-Mark.