CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: hgger69 on April 29, 2015, 07:58:40 AM
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Hi,
Just came across this 69 convertible yesterday and I´m leaning on that this one is a special paint order, am I correct? B means black top and - means special paint, if I understand the CRG Special Paint Table? The cowl tag:
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h193/hugger69/HFW649-veronicas-blaring-cab_zps4kn7mqld.jpg)
And if it is a special paint order does that mean that you can put almost whatever color you want on it and i's original to the car, if you don't have any evidence how it was actually built from factory?
It also have the kph-scale on the speedometer, very rare even here in Sweden!
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I think you are correct, also the special paint dash on the tag was used if a stripe was deleted or a non-standard stripe color was ordered, if that model RPO typically included a stripe.
Interesting to see that is one of the mid-year tags that doesn't have an X code, as noted in the CRG decode section.
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Thanx Tim,
This is a standard, non SS or SS, convertible but it doesn't have a X44 coding as I would have guessed when I first saw the car!
But you cant know what the original color was on this specific car then?
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If you wanted to know what the original color was, you could do a little digging, remove items which generally aren't removed for repaint, and check under them... (the weather strip above the door glass for example?). Go to TC and read the long thread about the EO special paint car and you can learn what is and isn't possible for the 1969 model year Chevrolets! it turns out there was a limit to the colors that were possible for 'special paint'... but it would seem as long as you stuck to that list during a proper restoration, you'd have a good story for that car... (whether it was the 'factory 'correct' paint color or not).. :)
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If you wanted to know what the original color was, you could do a little digging, remove items which generally aren't removed for repaint, and check under them... (the weather strip above the door glass for example?). Go to TC and read the long thread about the EO special paint car and you can learn what is and isn't possible for the 1969 model year Chevrolets! it turns out there was a limit to the colors that were possible for 'special paint'... but it would seem as long as you stuck to that list during a proper restoration, you'd have a good story for that car... (whether it was the 'factory 'correct' paint color or not).. :)
Thanx Gary, but it's not my car and it's already restored in a fantastic but non original style! ;)
I was just curious while I've never seen this type of cowl tag before! ;)
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How would that work when comes to judging at car shows? If you had that " - " in your paint code could you paint the car any available color that Chevrolet offered at the time?
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Any GM color except the Firemist Cadillac colors which required a different type of gun.
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How would that work when comes to judging at car shows? If you had that " - " in your paint code could you paint the car any available color that Chevrolet offered at the time?
I think you'd get credit for 'correct paint color' if the car were painted one of the possible colors for that year and that manufacturer.
PS. I had always heard that for Chevrolets from the fifties (and perhaps into the sixties), you could get a car in primer and have your own painter paint it, but I don't recall seeing any documentation for that.. just recounted stories. An example might be the Army vehicles painted 'Army green', and air force vehicles painted airforce blue, and perhaps other 'large volume purchasers', but I'm unsure if Chevrolet actually painted those 'fleet vehicles the non-factory colors, OR if they were bought in primer and painted by the customer?
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Even the Pink Camaros were painted by the factory, the more number of units ordered the lower the special paint charge became, I believe at a certain number of units there was no additional charge.
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Great info Guys. I appreciate it.
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PS. I had always heard that for Chevrolets from the fifties (and perhaps into the sixties), you could get a car in primer and have your own painter paint it, but I don't recall seeing any documentation for that.. just recounted stories. An example might be the Army vehicles painted 'Army green', and air force vehicles painted airforce blue, and perhaps other 'large volume purchasers', but I'm unsure if Chevrolet actually painted those 'fleet vehicles the non-factory colors, OR if they were bought in primer and painted by the customer?
Slightly less than a dozen Corvettes were built in "primer or special paint" each year from 1964-1967, and they show either "primer" or "spec" in the Paint section of the trim tag.
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PS. I had always heard that for Chevrolets from the fifties (and perhaps into the sixties), you could get a car in primer and have your own painter paint it, but I don't recall seeing any documentation for that.. just recounted stories. An example might be the Army vehicles painted 'Army green', and air force vehicles painted airforce blue, and perhaps other 'large volume purchasers', but I'm unsure if Chevrolet actually painted those 'fleet vehicles the non-factory colors, OR if they were bought in primer and painted by the customer?
Slightly less than a dozen Corvettes were built in "primer or special paint" each year from 1964-1967, and they show either "primer" or "spec" in the Paint section of the trim tag.
I have a Hot Rod magazine from the late 60's which has a complete GM crated mid year vette body in the For Sale section in the ad it stated only a few were made... could this have been one of these?
Or were the ones referenced complete finished units?
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My 68 convertible has a -1 were paint code is. Original owner hate stripe so he special order car stripe delete. Have only seen one other car this way it to was a stripe delete car .
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My 68 convertible has a -1 were paint code is. Original owner hate stripe so he special order car stripe delete. Have only seen one other car this way it to was a stripe delete car .
Thanx for all info about this tag, guys! :)
Two more quests:
But how do you know if the - concerns a stripe delete or a special paint?
How rare is this on a tag from 1969?
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Hakan, in 1969 the term 'special paint' covered stripe delete, a stripe in a non-standard color, or a paint color that was not one of the regular Camaro choices (except Firemist metallics as James stated). The CRG exterior color use estimates table indicates that around 1.5% of 1969 Camaros had special paint. I don't believe that there is any further breakup of how that 1.5% estimate was shared between the 3 possibilities above, especially as a car could have been ordered with 2 out of the 3, such as non-standard color, and no stripe. Without anything on the trim tag to confirm, unless a '-' car still has known original paint, or genuine documentation, it's owner cannot provide the CRG database with solid info on how the car was painted.
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I have a Hot Rod magazine from the late 60's which has a complete GM crated mid year vette body in the For Sale section in the ad it stated only a few were made... could this have been one of these?
Or were the ones referenced complete finished units?
That's probably one of the "primer" units.
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Hakan, in 1969 the term 'special paint' covered stripe delete, a stripe in a non-standard color, or a paint color that was not one of the regular Camaro choices (except Firemist metallics as James stated). The CRG exterior color use estimates table indicates that around 1.5% of 1969 Camaros had special paint. I don't believe that there is any further breakup of how that 1.5% estimate was shared between the 3 possibilities above, especially as a car could have been ordered with 2 out of the 3, such as non-standard color, and no stripe. Without anything on the trim tag to confirm, unless a '-' car still has known original paint, or genuine documentation, it's owner cannot provide the CRG database with solid info on how the car was painted.
Thanx for great answer, Tim!
This car occurs to be a standard V8 convertible so in this case the - most probably stands for non standard paint color, am I correct?
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Does the car still have the original engine? If so, what is the pad stamp suffix?
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Does the car still have the original engine? If so, what is the pad stamp suffix?
No, sorry Tim I don't think so! It was completely restored in the beginning of 2000 and they had no idea of originality! :(
The car is now like 200 miles from here and was just passing by......
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Well just considering the engine options available for a convertible, if the VIN on that car was definitely for a V8:
Any of the SS RPOs would have normally had the D90 stripe, so special paint could've been for non-standard paint color, stripe delete or non-standard stripe color.
On the other V8 engine options 307, 327 and 350 (LM1 or L65), a stripe package D90, D96 or DX1 was optional. That I believe at least rules out the stripe delete possibility, making it technically more likely that non-standard Camaro paint color would be the more probable on a special paint car.
I would be interested to know if you ordered (for example) an LM1 'vert and wanted an optional stripe but in a non-standard stripe color, would this trigger a special paint (-) trim tag? I'd think so, as Fisher would've needed to identify the non-standard detail, but then again the trim tag didn't address stripe color (or even which stripe option, for models that had optional stripes). Thoughts?
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The (-) code technically means "special pant instructions" it was a que to the paint shop to check the paperwork that accompanied the car body as it was built for the special instructions. Unless it was a Z28 (stripe delete, or non standard color stripe) or possibly a big block (no tail panel blackout) it meant special paint color, or treatment (extra polishing for a show car finish, etc.) All of the D90,D91, D96, DX1 paint stripes were done by GM, not Fisher so the (-) would have been meaningless to Fisher.
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Thanx Mark and Tim,
Now we know a lot more regarding this - code! :)
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Good point about stripe application Mark. I had understood that Fisher did some striping in the paint shop (from the Assembly Process article reference to Z28, and particularly the Z10 and Z11 which had D96) and because the D90 hockey stick stripe was broken up across the leading door edge (paint and decal). But as the front sheet metal was painted by Chevrolet, it would make no sense to paint (for example) the rear, and door section of front, D96 pinstripe by Fisher, and the fender part by Chevrolet. Thanks for pointing that out!
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Good point about stripe application Mark. I had understood that Fisher did some striping in the paint shop (from the Assembly Process article reference to Z28, and particularly the Z10 and Z11 which had D96) and because the D90 hockey stick stripe was broken up across the leading door edge (paint and decal). But as the front sheet metal was painted by Chevrolet, it would make no sense to paint (for example) the rear, and door section of front, D96 pinstripe by Fisher, and the fender part by Chevrolet. Thanks for pointing that out!
You'll see this snippet in the "First-Generation Camaro Assembly Process" paper, under Chevrolet, Final Line Operations, Other Operations:
"..pinstriping fixtures were applied and Z21/D96 pinstripes were painted with Buegler roller-striping guns, and D90 door stripe decals were applied."
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Yes I did John, went back and re-read it after Mark's post.
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My 66 GTO which Tiger Gold has SPECIAL on the trim tag. I got my build sheet from PHS and it says SPECIAL. I also got a letter from PHS that says no records were kept to say what the color was. Wonder how the line new what color.
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Was it a show car or just special order paint?
The line would have had additional paperwork to reference, were you able to find a broadcast sheet in the car?
If so it may have the paint code written on it much like many of the chevelle broadcast sheets on Special paint cars.
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I don,t have much history on the car except what PHS sent. I only know it was Tiger Gold from pictures from the restoration in places a respray would not reach.
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I could be mistaken but didn't some of the 1966 GTO's for the Thom McAn Shoe give away have that color?
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Yes they did. But from what I have read they advertised 66,s but by the time it happened they were 67,s. I am not sure if there were 66,s in the giveaway or not. Maybe Jim Wangers knows.
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My 66 GTO which Tiger Gold has SPECIAL on the trim tag. I got my build sheet from PHS and it says SPECIAL. I also got a letter from PHS that says no records were kept to say what the color was. Wonder how the line new what color.
Every day the Paint Shop Superintendent got a "Daily Run Sheet" that showed all units with special paint instructions, and highlighted copies were provided to/posted in the spray booths.