CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => Restoration => Topic started by: DAVEN1256 on April 29, 2015, 02:29:00 AM

Title: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: DAVEN1256 on April 29, 2015, 02:29:00 AM
I am installing a new front light wiring harness on my '68. It as an American Auto Wire Factory Fit harness that I purchased from Ecklers way back in 2008.

I am trying to figure where the wires going to the voltage regulator and horn relay are supposed to be routed. I don't know if they are supposed to go over or under the windshield washer jar.

When I look at the photo I took of my orignal harness when I was taking the car apart (unfortunately without the washer jar in place) it seems they went under the jar and than ran upwards to the voltage regulator and horn relay.......With this new harness, after I attach the mounting clips to the fender and core support, the wires are not long enough to go under the jar. Setting them on top of the jar doesn't seem right either.

Look at the clip that faces the firewall protruding the new wiring harness wrap. I have a green arrow pointing to it. What is that clip supposed to attach to?  There is no clip in that location on my original harness and there's no way I can rotate the harness 180 degrees to try to put that clip in a hole in the firewall.

I am a little mystified right now.

Thanks.....Dave

(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t386/daven1256/P1010040_zpszoesjdoz.jpg) (http://s1057.photobucket.com/user/daven1256/media/P1010040_zpszoesjdoz.jpg.html)

(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t386/daven1256/0a7a2a5c-e2c8-424f-b4d7-d387fbc67dac_zpsxpc2cs76.jpg) (http://s1057.photobucket.com/user/daven1256/media/0a7a2a5c-e2c8-424f-b4d7-d387fbc67dac_zpsxpc2cs76.jpg.html)

(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t386/daven1256/9c5f7418-fdc2-4438-ac47-8ec052b87304_zps6iktvylu.jpg) (http://s1057.photobucket.com/user/daven1256/media/9c5f7418-fdc2-4438-ac47-8ec052b87304_zps6iktvylu.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: L78 steve on April 29, 2015, 10:42:25 PM
The harness runs above the container and the hole in the rad support is there just forward of the mystery clip.
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: L78 steve on April 29, 2015, 10:44:17 PM
I can take a pic. tomorrow eve unless someone beats me to it.
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: DAVEN1256 on April 30, 2015, 12:28:44 AM
Steve, Thanks for the reply.

After a pic sent to me over on TC, looking closer in the AIM, and Googling images of 1968 Camaro voltage regulators....I see how the wiring should go over the top of the washer fluid jar and how and how it clips to the hole in the core support. I am still mystified as to why the "mystery" clip is facing the wrong direction. It seems with all the other clips in place, the "mystery clip" should be facing the core support.

So what I did to test all of this was mount my old voltage regulator and horn relay on the core support and see if could make all of the connections. First off, I had to take the harness and twist it 180 degrees to get the clip to face the core support. After doing clipping the harness in place, I managed to make all the connections but they did not go on all that easy. I really had to really manipulate the wires and jam them in the small space between the washer fluid jar and the voltage regulator.

Here are a couple pics of how it looked when I was done. Hopefully someone can comment if this is the way it should look or if I have something wrong.

Thanks....Dave

(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t386/daven1256/IMG_6814_zps5cdczexh.jpg) (http://s1057.photobucket.com/user/daven1256/media/IMG_6814_zps5cdczexh.jpg.html)

(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t386/daven1256/IMG_6812_zpsiujqwhtw.jpg) (http://s1057.photobucket.com/user/daven1256/media/IMG_6812_zpsiujqwhtw.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: Mike S on April 30, 2015, 12:43:55 AM
Here is a picture from my (very dusty) unrestored '67 if this helps.
As a side note, the lid on the washer tank still shows a white X on the top.

Mike

Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: DAVEN1256 on April 30, 2015, 01:20:07 AM
Mike, thank you for the pic.

After looking at yours, I am thinking my whole problem is the location of that clip on my harness. Besides it having faced the wrong way, it looks like it is too far back on the harness, thus pushing all the wires that go down to the horn relay into the side of the voltage regulator.

I am tempted to unwind the wrapping and reposition the clip. But I don't know if the wrap would stick again afterwards.

Dave

(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t386/daven1256/ebce77d3-0af0-40e0-a460-e08613a81df1_zps8bc7uckg.jpg) (http://s1057.photobucket.com/user/daven1256/media/ebce77d3-0af0-40e0-a460-e08613a81df1_zps8bc7uckg.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: Mike S on April 30, 2015, 01:53:31 AM
Hi Dave,

  It may wrap fine being the tape doesn't have an adhesive. I recommend to try not to touch the tape that is unwrapped (if you decide to unwrap it a little) and have clean hands so as not to get any skin oils on the unwrapped tape surface.

Mike
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: L78 steve on April 30, 2015, 04:10:32 PM
You may have to use some 3M 33+ Stick tape. Looks like one of your clips already pulled out. The clips should have long tabs to hold under the tape.
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: z28z11 on April 30, 2015, 10:03:06 PM
I've got an NOS '68 front harness (in the box) if you need a comparison shot - be glad to dig it out if you need another pic for comparison to the Autowire - 

Regards,
Steve
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: big iron on April 30, 2015, 11:22:41 PM
Just route your wires like they are in Mike's picture and I think it will solve your problem. Looks like all the wires are in the correct position coming out of the harness compared to Mike's wiring. I just pulled the tape covering back on one of my old harnesses about an 1" with no problem. Just work the last 6 or 7" of the tape backwards with a slight twisting. back and forth  motion.
Bob
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: L78 steve on May 01, 2015, 12:02:35 AM
You may have to use some 3M 33+ Stick tape. Looks like one of your clips already pulled out. The clips should have long tabs to hold under the tape.

My mistake the clip I see is the back side.
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: DAVEN1256 on May 01, 2015, 12:10:25 AM
I know it will work OK in the end. It just that the old "I have to take something brand new, and mess with it to gt it to fit" gets pretty old after a while. I know I am not alone there.

Steve....if you could take that picture of the NOS harness showing where the branch going to the voltage regulator and horn relay breaks off the main harness and then which way the "mystery clip" faces on that branch of the harness, that would be very much appreciated.

I already sent a note to American Auto Wire with the same pictures here and their first response is that I may not have the harness routed correctly from the beginning. I used the AIM for the correct routing and every other part of the harness fits fine so I don't think it is a routing problem.

Dave
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: big iron on May 01, 2015, 12:54:18 AM
Dave,
Look at post 4, notice how far the clip hangs out from the tape on the end? Look where the red wires come out from under the tape. The wires are bending down at  the clip not an 1'+ like your harness.
The clip on Mike's harness looks as if it is of a different design that only needs to be taped on one end. If you have your old harness use the old clip. Push the barbed end under the tape on the new harness then pull back the tape like explained above, insert old clip where the new clip is , then pull tape back to clip. Now you can bend the wires at the clip like they should be.
Bob
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: 68camaroz28 on May 01, 2015, 12:59:28 AM
I know it will work OK in the end. It just that the old "I have to take something brand new, and mess with it to gt it to fit" gets pretty old after a while. I know I am not alone there.

Steve....if you could take that picture of the NOS harness showing where the branch going to the voltage regulator and horn relay breaks off the main harness and then which way the "mystery clip" faces on that branch of the harness, that would be very much appreciated.

I already sent a note to American Auto Wire with the same pictures here and their first response is that I may not have the harness routed correctly from the beginning. I used the AIM for the correct routing and every other part of the harness fits fine so I don't think it is a routing problem.

Dave

Dave, something to keep in mind while at Spring Carlisle (yelled Hi to ya) is speak to an American Auto Wire representative while there, or maybe you did? They were at Spring Carlisle and its worthwhile as it assists with setting up a contact also. They told me they use GM prints as I reviewed why the 68 back up switch harness is so short. I could barely make it work!
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: big iron on May 01, 2015, 01:09:24 AM
Is Spring Carlisle different than GM Nationals?
Bob
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: DAVEN1256 on May 01, 2015, 01:18:35 AM
Chick, maybe you have me confused with another Dave. I have never been to spring Carlisle.

I am not worried that I can't fix this and make it right. I can always do like Bob said to do. I am just curious as to why that clip was positioned oppsite off the way it seems it should be. AAW told me also that they use GM's original blueprints. I don't know if AAW assembles these by hand or not. If they do, there's always the possibility that the person assembling put the clip in the wrong place. If Steve is able to take that pic of his NOS harness, that should tell me.

Dave
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: Sauron327 on May 01, 2015, 01:30:25 AM
My AAW harness was plug and play.  A mistake could be made during assembly which is understandable.
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: big iron on May 01, 2015, 02:04:04 AM
Dave,
Do not think they put the clip in the wrong place, I think the end of the harness just got twisted. After you twisted the end to make the clip work all the wire colors match those in Mike's picture.
The thing that is causing your problem is the incorrect style clip. Do you have your old harness that has the correct clip?
Bob
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: Mike S on May 01, 2015, 02:58:14 AM
Or maybe just unwrap a few layers of tape to expose the clip to look like the original one show?
I checked and it is one of those 'off center' clips (if that is a good word to describe it) whereby the barb is towards an end vs. centered.

Mike
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: big iron on May 01, 2015, 03:50:48 AM
Mike,
Could you get a close up of your clip? I am going to have to replace my harness and my old harness does not have a clip so I need to start looking.
When they tape a harness they start at the main plug and tape continuously to the end. When they come to a short branch they do not cut the tape, they pull the tape to the end of the branch ( this case a clip ) and tape back to the main body of the harness then continue on to the next branch or end of harness. Short story, may not have an end to unravel.
Bob
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: 68camaroz28 on May 01, 2015, 04:28:17 AM
Chick, maybe you have me confused with another Dave. I have never been to spring Carlisle.

I am not worried that I can't fix this and make it right. I can always do like Bob said to do. I am just curious as to why that clip was positioned oppsite off the way it seems it should be. AAW told me also that they use GM's original blueprints. I don't know if AAW assembles these by hand or not. If they do, there's always the possibility that the person assembling put the clip in the wrong place. If Steve is able to take that pic of his NOS harness, that should tell me.

Dave
Yes I did! Sorry about that!
I assume you do not have the original harness?
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: L78 steve on May 01, 2015, 04:58:14 PM
Chick, maybe you have me confused with another Dave. I have never been to spring Carlisle.

I am not worried that I can't fix this and make it right. I can always do like Bob said to do. I am just curious as to why that clip was positioned oppsite off the way it seems it should be. AAW told me also that they use GM's original blueprints. I don't know if AAW assembles these by hand or not. If they do, there's always the possibility that the person assembling put the clip in the wrong place. If Steve is able to take that pic of his NOS harness, that should tell me.

Dave

I'll take some pics. tonight. The original harness is not in the car but I have it. Dont understand why the previous owner swapped it for a new one. Nothing wrong with it.
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: Mike S on May 02, 2015, 02:32:33 AM
Mike,
Could you get a close up of your clip? ..........
Bob
Hi Bob,

  Here is a closeup of the clip from the 05B car. The harness is out of the car so it was easier to take a close up.
 It's the same clip that's on the LOS car I posted a picture of.

Mike
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: L78 steve on May 02, 2015, 02:40:43 AM
Pics.
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: firstgenaddict on May 03, 2015, 02:42:10 PM
I have seen both types of clips on the end of survivors, the loop over black one and the natural colored "regular" style clip. IMHO the loop over style which plugs back into itself FITS better at the illustrated location.
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: big iron on May 04, 2015, 03:09:47 AM
Mike,
Could you get a close up of your clip? ..........
Bob
Hi Bob,

  Here is a closeup of the clip from the 05B car. The harness is out of the car so it was easier to take a close up.
 It's the same clip that's on the LOS car I posted a picture of.

Mike
Mike thanks for the picture, a little more detail than I expected.
Is that black clip correct? Not what I expected but understand why it could be used. Going to take a little work to make that clip.
Wonder if that is a 67 only thing? Where does it plug into? Looks like a newer style clip.
Bob
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: Mike S on May 04, 2015, 01:12:51 PM
Hi Bob,

  The black clip is used to secure the convertible power top feed wire to the harness.
That wire is attached to the horn relay.

Mike
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: L78 steve on May 04, 2015, 04:21:40 PM
Hi Bob,

  The black clip is used to secure the convertible power top feed wire to the harness.
That wire is attached to the horn relay.

Mike

Does the black ty clip plug into a hole or is it just used as a strap?
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: Mike S on May 04, 2015, 05:48:30 PM
Hi Steve,

 It is just a strap. There are a couple of these along the harness route.

Mike
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: L78 steve on May 04, 2015, 11:59:34 PM
My orig. 67 harness had 2 of these and it drove me crazy. I could not find where they were plugged into. Thanks for this info.
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: big iron on May 05, 2015, 02:13:10 AM
Mike,
That is a very interesting strap you have.  ???
Time for a new thread.
Bob
Title: Re: Front light wiring harness routing problem
Post by: Mike S on May 05, 2015, 02:39:16 AM
I checked and can see 3830786 on the three straps. That is the same number used to secure the windshield washer hose routing.
Interesting indeed. I wonder if they were used if the other was in short supply or the AIM doesn't reflect a p/n change?

Mike