CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: robsom74 on March 25, 2015, 10:53:00 PM
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Hello all
Name is Rob. Just got my hands on a 68 with a big block. Its a solid project but will be in need of some resto work but am lookin forward to the project. Its got a big block in it now but that is going to be replaced with a killer 302. 68 is my favorite year and I've always wanted to build a screaming 302.
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Hey Welcome the CRG! Congrats on the purchase. Was it an original big block car? Can post some pics for us? thanks
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Not an original big block car. I wish. But its a 71 402 out of a chevelle...LS-3. it's complete and appears to be all original form carb to pan. hoping to find an interested buyer for it soon. Will get pics of the 68 as soon as I get it from the guys house I bought it off of. I'm laid up from a work injury at the moment and my garage is kinda full. good thing the buyer is understanding.
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Welcome Rob! Congratulations on owning the best year Camaro, 1968! Yup, got to love the 302! :)
Paul
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You '68 and '69 guys seem to forget that everything is only original ONCE!!!!! And that is why the '67s are the best year!!
Everything after it is just a copy!!!!! LOL
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Thanks...and I should've said glad the seller is understanding. I've had many Camaros over the years. A 72, 79, 82 and 86 IROC...plus a 70 Chevelle SS 396. I'm really excited about getting my hands on this 68. Gonna be couple years before it's done....but it will be worth it!
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pics?? :)
Welcome!
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No pics yet of the 68. Will have some when I finally get it to my house...and who knows when that will be. I find out the results of the MRI on my neck tomorrow.
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I wouldn't put a 302 in anything by choice. Realize several of the TA teams reputedly cheated and ran stroked 302's (aka LT1 350's).
The *only* reason Chevrolet made the 302 is because of TA rules. When the rules allowed it, Chevy went to the LT1.
A little balancing and you'll have more power and same rpm....
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Its funny on paper that makes sense, but I ran into a guy who had a 69 Z and said when the 70 Z came out he thought it would be awesome to put the 70Z LT1 motor in it ( for the power). So he found a guy who wrecked one, and bought the motor. Installed it, and while he said it ran "good", he also said it never put out the same power or had the same pull as the 302. He shook his head and said he knew it didn't make sense, and he went over the 350 and brought it to a friend who was a mechanic by trade, and the mechanic said it was running fine. So for what its worth....
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I wouldn't put a 302 in anything by choice. Realize several of the TA teams reputedly cheated and ran stroked 302's (aka LT1 350's).
The *only* reason Chevrolet made the 302 is because of TA rules. When the rules allowed it, Chevy went to the LT1.
A little balancing and you'll have more power and same rpm....
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/Picture%20240_zpstgcojqzr.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/Picture%20240_zpstgcojqzr.jpg.html)
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I wouldn't put a 302 in anything by choice. Realize several of the TA teams reputedly cheated and ran stroked 302's (aka LT1 350's).
The *only* reason Chevrolet made the 302 is because of TA rules. When the rules allowed it, Chevy went to the LT1.
A little balancing and you'll have more power and same rpm....
Does that sound a bit like '302 envy'?????? :) :)
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Hey Rob, welcome to CRG. You've come to the right spot. Tons of knowledge here and you'll soon see just how special these 1st gens really are. As far as building a 302, Yeah it'll scream but why not just rebuild the 402 (essentially a 396) big block that you already have into an even more screamer ? Regardless.. have fun and enjoy ! :)
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Yea, a Big Block would be the bee's knee's. But all I care about is that you make sure to make it the right color...Hugger Orange! ;D
Welcome aboard Rob. I guess you are finding out CRGers are a "crazy" bunch :P, passionate about 1st Gens ;), with a splash of humor ::).
With any luck, it won't be long before you are just as crazy :o. Are you having second thoughts about joining,lol? :D :D
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Hey Rob, welcome to CRG. You've come to the right spot. Tons of knowledge here and you'll soon see just how special these 1st gens really are. As far as building a 302, Yeah it'll scream but why not just rebuild the 402 (essentially a 396) big block that you already have into an even more screamer ? Regardless.. have fun and enjoy ! :)
If you've never heard a 302 at above 8 grand (I've had them that would turn over 10,000), then you haven't heard a V8 'scream'!~ :) A 396/402 is 'groaning' at 6500.. and I can't imagine one screaming... :)
Of course, if stump-pulling torque is your thing, then the 396/402 will do it for you!
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Hey Rob, welcome to CRG. You've come to the right spot. Tons of knowledge here and you'll soon see just how special these 1st gens really are. As far as building a 302, Yeah it'll scream but why not just rebuild the 402 (essentially a 396) big block that you already have into an even more screamer ? Regardless.. have fun and enjoy ! :)
If you've never heard a 302 at above 8 grand (I've had them that would turn over 10,000), then you haven't heard a V8 'scream'!~ :) A 396/402 is 'groaning' at 6500.. and I can't imagine one screaming... :)
Of course, if stump-pulling torque is your thing, then the 396/402 will do it for you!
Gary your absolutely correct.. Guess I should of worded it different. A 302 is definitely the screamer by far! I was thinking more in the line of HP and a much more powerful engine in a mild state of tune and could even get a little mpg.
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Hey Rob, welcome to CRG. You've come to the right spot. Tons of knowledge here and you'll soon see just how special these 1st gens really are. As far as building a 302, Yeah it'll scream but why not just rebuild the 402 (essentially a 396) big block that you already have into an even more screamer ? Regardless.. have fun and enjoy ! :)
If you've never heard a 302 at above 8 grand (I've had them that would turn over 10,000), then you haven't heard a V8 'scream'!~ :) A 396/402 is 'groaning' at 6500.. and I can't imagine one screaming... :)
Of course, if stump-pulling torque is your thing, then the 396/402 will do it for you!
Gary your absolutely correct.. Guess I should of worded it different. A 302 is definitely the screamer by far! I was thinking more in the line of HP and a much more powerful engine in a mild state of tune and could even get a little mpg.
:).. I knew what you meant, Darrell.. but one of my roles here is to defend the reputations of the 'little guy'.. (302).. :)
Or.. as once proclaimed by one or more car mags... 'The Mouse that ROARS'.. :)
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I have a 71 low compression 402 (date matched heads/block) I cant give away up here. Maybe a regional thing , but pretty unpopular engine on the North Coast ? Although a 396... 2 camps tend to be your high r small blocks , or 454+ cubes, "427"s tend to be stroked 400's up to 454's(with some issues)
302's have a unique, wonderful sound throughout the RPM range ,they just do. But....they are not real traffic friendly, they were purpose built ( Kurt S.)
My 400 (sbc) backed by a turbo 350 and 4.88's pulled the wheels ,ran consistent 12.5's (fast for a street car in the day)and behaved well in traffic. Did I mention shift point was 7800? Never broke with that set up. Although looking back, geared to steep, was a better 1/8th mile car.
Yes the 302 is going back in the Z, ready on the stand.
Dollar for dollar, cant go wrong with a crate 383. but...
IF it is a Z ,it needs a 302 (smiles) They define each other.
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I have a 71 low compression 402 (date matched heads/block) I cant give away up here. Maybe a regional thing , but pretty unpopular engine on the North Coast ? Although a 396... 2 camps tend to be your high r small blocks , or 454+ cubes, "427"s tend to be stroked 400's up to 454's(with some issues)
302's have a unique, wonderful sound throughout the RPM range ,they just do. But....they are not real traffic friendly, they were purpose built ( Kurt S.)
My 400 (sbc) backed by a turbo 350 and 4.88's pulled the wheels ,ran consistent 12.5's (fast for a street car in the day)and behaved well in traffic. Did I mention shift point was 7800? Never broke with that set up. Although looking back, geared to steep, was a better 1/8th mile car.
Yes the 302 is going back in the Z, ready on the stand.
Dollar for dollar, cant go wrong with a crate 383. but...
IF it is a Z ,it needs a 302 (smiles) They define each other.
I agree with all your points, Jano.. except ONE! you CAN give that '71 402 away.. to me.. and I'll come pick it up! :) I need a 'torque motor' for the '72 El Camino I'm building.. :)
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I wouldn't put a 302 in anything by choice. Realize several of the TA teams reputedly cheated and ran stroked 302's (aka LT1 350's).
The *only* reason Chevrolet made the 302 is because of TA rules. When the rules allowed it, Chevy went to the LT1.
A little balancing and you'll have more power and same rpm....
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/Picture%20240_zpstgcojqzr.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/Picture%20240_zpstgcojqzr.jpg.html)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Mq3EjxI2Bw0/U5iw9FECKQI/AAAAAAAAI3E/YLtz-QE6a04/s1600/LMAO.png)
BBFTW
(Big Blocks For The Win)
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Everyone says you don't want 3.31 or 3.55 gears in a Z - too hard to launch. You never hear that with a LT1.
It performs about the same as the 302, but with more torque on the low-end.
In 1970, the Trans-Am series allowed for destroking motors. So Chevrolet went with the LT1 in production and TA teams destroked it back to a 302 for the track.
If you want originality, it needs a 302. If you want a driver and more torque across the spectrum, then a stroked 302. Y'all remember the Z29 feature car?
Obviously, this is heresy to some. :)
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I'm not a big fan of the 302 either. When I assemble my DZ block it will have a 3.48 stroke steel crank in it.
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No heresy :D
" a rose by any other name is still a rose" Big block, small block ,name the cube. As long as it's a bowtie. Dollar for dollar still the best mule you can build for the job.
Tails from the strip: Ran the Anglia at Pinks when it was at Norwalk a few years ago , guy in a early 426 Dodge told me great car ,could have used a "Hemi" in a sarcastic tone(very pretty car the Dodge)
Well ,he got me outa the hole(no 4.10's in it at the time) ,caught him at the 1/8th , we ran hard to the beams but pulled him by a fender . That Dart headed ,Oliver rod ,JE 14.75:1 splayed mained SBC was stroking ! ( no throttle stop) Very sweet sound. Ran into him in NY(Dad did) runnin the mouth a bit. 1/8 mile ,steeper gear in the rear ,car was hitting hard!
Declined a little fun run$$
( Gotta imagine "Shut Down" playing)
Gary---engines apart ,I'll shoot you some pics this weekend and a PM, just let me know what's fair.
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Thanks guys. I agree about a big block and the power. I built a 60 over 396 for my 72 and backed it up with Super T10. I massaged a good set of square port heads for it and threw in a good solid cam. It was fast and fun...but all in all it wasn't a 68 Camaro...lol. I could build the 402 in the 68...but since its a complete 71 LS-3, I want to see if I can track down the original Chevelle it came out of or sell it to someone doing a complete resto on a 71 SS. Its a CLA coded 71 and the partial vin has a K in it designating the Kansas City plant. And as far as the 302.....I'm gonna build a 10 grand screamer and back it up with a 5 speed...probably a Richmond....unless I can find one hell of a deal on a nice rebuilt M22. never having second thoughts about joining!!
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Everyone says you don't want 3.31 or 3.55 gears in a Z - too hard to launch. You never hear that with a LT1.
It performs about the same as the 302, but with more torque on the low-end.
In 1970, the Trans-Am series allowed for destroking motors. So Chevrolet went with the LT1 in production and TA teams destroked it back to a 302 for the track.
If you want originality, it needs a 302. If you want a driver and more torque across the spectrum, then a stroked 302. Y'all remember the Z29 feature car?
Obviously, this is heresy to some. :)
and I have no argument with Kurt's comments either, except for this one.... that's a big word.. ''about''... :)
"It performs about the same as the 302,"...
I prefer a 350 for everyday driving.. I've even *considered* installing an LT1 crank/pistons in my 302 block... but.. even the 1970 LT1 engine didn't rev as quickly or as high as a well built 302... If I'd put a 350 crank in the 302.. the end result would be .. 'The THRILL IS GONE!"... :)
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All I ever get when I go to the parts store and tell 'em it's a 302in a Camaro is: "it's got a Ford motor in it?"
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All I ever get when I go to the parts store and tell 'em it's a 302in a Camaro is: "it's got a Ford motor in it?"
Time to find a new parts store! :)
Paul
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Welcome on board Rob. As you've probably figured out by now, you will get plenty of opinions. So here is another. I have had good luck with 327's, I had one that had a "full-race" solid lifter Crane cam "back in the day" that I'm sure would hit 10K(it would over wind the Tach.) The engine I have in my '67 is the original 327 now pushing 400 hp. and very streetable. It is dressed up to look just like a 302, 'cause I consider my car a Z tribute.
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One thing I would consider before having a motor built is what type of driving will I be doing, what is the compression raito I can get away with on pump gas with out mixing fuel.
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I took my last 302 to 7,200 more than once. Nothing like it when it feels like the dash is going fall in your lap! However my current 302 I have put 2,100 miles on it and it has not seen 4,200. I can't take the chance, as it was sitting for about 26 or 28 years. But it still sounds pretty darn good... D
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well you can work your way up there. If you haven't gone over 4200 your Z is still asleep
ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzZZZZZzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz
:D
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well you can work your way up there. If you haven't gone over 4200 your Z is still asleep
ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzZZZZZzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz
:D
LOL....sounds like my "stump puller" 97 F250 HD could give it a run for the money!