CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: L78 steve on January 27, 2015, 06:22:34 PM
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Is anyone using this? Thoughts? https://classiccarmotoroil.com/index.html
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My first impression is that it's probably just conventional oil with a ZDDP type additive and maybe something in addition, selling for the price of synthetic oil. You could probably get the same results from stuff at your local parts store, and probably less $.
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I use Brad Penn Oil. If racers swear by it then you know its good. ;)
http://www.penngrade1.com/ (http://www.penngrade1.com/)
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Or 2 grades of Z-Rod by AMSOIL http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/gasoline/z-rod-10w-30-synthetic-motor-oil/?code=ZRTQT-EA (http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/gasoline/z-rod-10w-30-synthetic-motor-oil/?code=ZRTQT-EA) 10w-30 or 20w-50 are great oils too.
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I like Amsoil synthetics but they leak like hell from the rear main. The only oil I can find with the Zinc and Phosphorus is the Valvoline Racing and that is short term oil only.
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I thought Shell Rotella had what we need.
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The ZDDP has been reduced in Rotella also. The zinc and phosphorus shortens the life of catalytic converters so the EPA is doing its job.
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I use Brad Penn Oil. If racers swear by it then you know its good. ;)
http://www.penngrade1.com/ (http://www.penngrade1.com/)
x2
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The Penn looks good.
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Is there an additive you can add yourself, or does it have to be already in the oil you are using?
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Companies do sell zddp additives, although I haven't used them myself. Eastwood and even a company called 'zddplus'..
http://zddplus.com/
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Companies do sell zddp additives, although I haven't used them myself. Eastwood and even a company called 'zddplus'..
http://zddplus.com/
Some of my friends use zddplus and no complaints about cam wear so far.
These can be bought in bulk on eBay at some very good deals.
Mike
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Is anyone using this? Thoughts? https://classiccarmotoroil.com/index.html
I picked some up a few months ago when I was Indianapolis. It seemed like the most protection for the money, and more oriented toward a car that may sit during the winter months.
I also saw where someone said Brad Penn was good but required oil changes every 1000 miles because it did not contain as many additives to break down the carbon build up. Same thing for Valvoline VR-1 "Valvoline Racing oil is not designed for long term use, it is for short intense use and racing purposes."
A Zddp additive added to regular oil is better than no additive at all, (more of a stop gap), but you are better off purchasing oil with it built in. You can have to much Zddp and create a problem by decreasing the effectiveness of the zddp as well.
Shell Rotella/ Chevron Delo -Diesel oils have plenty of ZDDP, but unfortunately even higher levels of detergents than conventional oil. So initially this seemed like a fix, but after more research was found to harm the flat tappet cam motors as well.
Most motor oil manufactured today only has 800 ppm of zddp. (not enough)
bottom line: use Brad Penn (1500 ppm), Valvoline Vr-1, ,Classic car motor oil (1600 ppm) , or a motor oil with at least 1200 ppm of zddp, and you will be fine.
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(personally I run Lucas Plus 20W50 , in the race engine. Very pleased with the performance per post season engine tear down) Also , Lucas, Amsoil , and I'm sure others sell kits where you can have a sample of your oil examined for wear indication. #1 owner of the Z happens to be an Amsoil rep.
Another online post:
I recently contacted the technical department of Lucas oil and inquired about the ZDDP content of the Lucas motor oils.
Here is what I was told
Standard 30W = 1265 parts per million
Standard 20W50 = 1265 parts per million
Standard 10W30 = 900 parts per million (has the seal oil industry seal and cannot exceed 900)
Racing synthetic 10W30 = 3031 parts per million
Racing synthetic 10W40 = 3031 parts per million
Racing synthetic 20W50 = 3031 parts per million
Here is a link to this oil http://www.lucasoiloffroad.com/lucas...SAE_10W-30.pdf
I have been using 10W30 Kohler Universal Engine oil in my Jeep to protect the Flat Tappet cam as the Kohler oil has around 3200 parts per million ZDDP but I think I will switch to the Lucas Synthetic Racing Oil at my next change now that I know that it has so much ZDDP in it and due to the availability of the Lucas products. The person I spoke with at Lucas assured me that the Lucas Racing Oil would hold up for my normal oil change interval of about 5000 to 6000 miles. Actually even the standard Lucas oil at 1265 parts per million would be more than enough to protect a Jeep 4.0 flat tappet cam.
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The ZDDP has been reduced in Rotella also. The zinc and phosphorus shortens the life of catalytic converters so the EPA is doing its job.
No, it hasn't. The CJ-4 API service rating on Rotella (and every other CJ-4-rated brand) will routinely test at 1100-1200 ppm of zinc/phos, which is more than adequate protection for any OEM valvetrain; if you have an aftermarket valvetrain with Gonzo valve springs and radical lobe flank accelerations, all bets are off and you'll need more specialized lubricants with more EP (Extreme Pressure) additives.
CJ-4 oils are not intended for use with catalytic converters - that's why "SM" (the current EPA-approved passenger car and light truck oil classification for spark-ignition engines) is listed SECOND on the API label logo.
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All I can say John is I had a factory L78 cam go out on Rotella. I no longer trust it.
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My engine builder recommended Joe Gibbs 10W30 with High Zinc Formulation @ 1200 ppm.
I'm running that with zero problems through cam break-in.
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Ditto on the Joe Gibbs "Driven Logo" motor oil. My car (350 crate) does not like synthetics, but has run great on Joe Gibb's stuff for several years. Get seal leaks with synthetic.
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All I can say John is I had a factory L78 cam go out on Rotella. I no longer trust it.
Stock GM cam, stock lifters and stock valve springs?
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I've had good luck with Gibb break in oil but trust Brad Penn for my higher RPM engines!
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All I can say John is I had a factory L78 cam go out on Rotella. I no longer trust it.
Stock GM cam, stock lifters and stock valve springs?
100% stock. 15k mile early take out L78 for a 454. The engine was disassembled checked out new rings and bearings, cam smeared with moly. Lifters installed in the same holes, pre-lubed. At 100 miles I did a valve adjustment and noticed 3 push rods were not spinning. Cam lobes looked pitted. Caught it early, no other damage.
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Damn. Sorry to hear that Steve. And it is the first that I have heard of something like that using Rotella. Do you remember was it 10-30 ?
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Damn. Sorry to hear that Steve. And it is the first that I have heard of something like that using Rotella. Do you remember was it 10-30 ?
It was the 15W-40. It may not have been the cause but since I heard they lowered the Zinc level I assumed it was the reason. John Z stated they have not lowered it.
I'm running the Crane spec. cam now with air cooled engine oil with no problems yet.
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John Z stated they have not lowered it.
Back when Rotella (and the other diesel oils) carried the old CI-4 service rating, they tested around 1300ppm zinc/phos. When CI-4 was superseded by the new CJ-4 formulation and rating about ten years ago, the zinc/phos. content was reduced to 1200ppm. Conventional passenger car/light truck "SM" oils are limited to 800ppm zinc/phos., to protect catalytic converters.
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http://lucasoil.com/images/documents/Zinc_Values_MotorcycleOil.pdf
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I have been using the Lucas oil #049807106836. What is the Zinc content of this oil?
Car sat since '86. After getting it going I have changed the oil 6 times in the 1,200 miles I have put on it. I guess it's ok.. All stock, engine never apart... Danny
HOT ROD & CLASSIC CAR OIL
10687 SAE 10W-30 2,100
10688 SAE 10W-40 2,100
10689 SAE 20W-50 2,100
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I think you may have become addicted to 'changing your oil', Danny.... Have you considered an AA group? :)
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I have been using the Lucas oil #049807106836. What is the Zinc content of this oil?
Car sat since '86. After getting it going I have changed the oil 6 times in the 1,200 miles I have put on it. I guess it's ok.. All stock, engine never apart... Danny
HOT ROD & CLASSIC CAR OIL
10687 SAE 10W-30 2,100
10688 SAE 10W-40 2,100
10689 SAE 20W-50 2,100
Can I have your old oil?
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;D Actually belief it or not, the oil usage has dropped, and the oil is now a lot less discolored between changes. I will change it a couple more times at 500 mile increments and then see what it looks like. I may then be able to let it go 2 or 3 thousand. Also ya gotta remember my crankcase and oil pan was saturated with fuel.... Danny
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;D Actually belief it or not, the oil usage has dropped, and the oil is now a lot less discolored between changes. I will change it a couple more times at 500 mile increments and then see what it looks like. I may then be able to let it go 2 or 3 thousand. Also ya gotta remember my crankcase and oil pan was saturated with fuel.... Danny
This is due to parts seating in, Less blowby. Pull some hills and get some heat into it then decel and flood with oil.
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all I ever used per my engine builder's direction was GM EOS during assembly, and when they use to make it in the little can,s about half a can in with the load of oil. Never had any wear/galling in my engines to speak of
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I used this chart to determine what I was going to run. I choose the Valvoline VR1 Racing in the silver bottle.....Joe
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35836
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It seems the followers of that post disagree with his findings.
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It seems the followers of that post disagree with his findings.
I know we all know break-in is extremely critical and we utilize Brad Penn oils in our cars. That is also recommended by the engine shop (RaceKrafters) we utilize. I think Big Blocks are notorious for alignment issues between lifter bores and cam journals but that is after many miles and heat cycles or at least that is what I've been told but realize Steve your engine was an early take out. We had our 67 427 re-built just over a year ago by RaceKrafters and I decided to utilize a hyd. roller to eliminate some of the flat tappet headaches. In our neck of the woods everyone I know uses the Brad Penn.
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Well its either Penn or the Valvoline VR1. The VR1 is easier to get. I will have to travel some distance for the Penn oil. According to the link that X66 714 provided the VR1 doesn't have a short term use only classification if the silver bottle type is used.