CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: dannystarr on December 25, 2014, 07:25:34 AM
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This car only has about 10,000 Miles on it. Why did they do a resto? Engine VIN stamp looks too close to the back for the gang stamp to clear. Re-stamp? .. Danny
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28-1968-camaro-z-28-9-985-original-miles-/121523548937?forcerrptr=true&hash=item1c4b5e3309&item=121523548937&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
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I asked over on the Yenko site (but got '0' responses - I'm not one of the 'group' over there nor do know much about Van Nuys cars admittedly) but is it normal for the assembly date stamp and vin code to be reversed compared to Norwood stampings?
I'm used to seeing the assembly stamp on the right side of the pad often very close to the front edge like my car's version and was wondering if the L cars were normally different in that sense..
The stamping does look pretty fresh to me considering.. but again I'm certainly no expert!
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Yes, not only reversed, as I didn't even remember that. But if the stamp is too close to the head, like it was stamped, then assembled. I may request some more pictures of that and the MO stamp. And maybe the trans VIN and build also. .. D
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Clearly a restamp.
124378L340400
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Engines were assembled and date stamped at engine plant - Flint. So same whether Norwood or LA.
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Block was decked years ago. Someone recently added the #'s to the pad. Probably original block.
Was original paint, though I'm not sure how nice.
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That car's VIN is two after mine. for the line process guys, my SCH # is J543, and the body # is 39094. would that mean that this car was four cars behind mine on the assembly line?
Not that that has any importance, but the closest to mine that I have seen.
VT
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It means it came thru the wall from Fisher after yours, probably 4-6 cars later. Remember LOS built full-size too.
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Kurt, I got a message back from the owner. Here is his reply.
For once you don't know what you are talking about.... I have all the docs, owners, etc. until this car was new. It has never been decked. I have stamped hundreds of cars, but this one is original. Why in the world would you think this pad had been decked?
I was just curious, as you must have some info from years past about this block? Pictures? I would love to send him a picture or some documentation. Scary, as a friend of mine was starting to look at this car kinda seriously. I have stopped him from purchasing about 6 fake cars. I love this sight, or is it site? It's late ;D... Danny
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The block does not look like it has been machined. The numbers are in the wrong places but we all have seen stamps changed at the factory. Accidents happen, people get rushed, it is assembly line. As discussed on another site the car is now restored and repainted. It was original paint but now it is not. Look at the car and the facts before rushing to judgment. With that said current bid is 52k and that is all the money to me. Reserve is not met? The mileage is a plus.
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. I have stamped hundreds of cars, but this one is original.
Scarey
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http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/594358/2/9985-mile-68-z
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I have a CE block with the stamp on the lower side of the pad where the vin USUALLY is
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Car was on ebay in 2003.
Advertised as decked by Rick B then and I know someone that looked at it. Rick is a member of TC.
All that doesn't matter - small blocks were stamped on the inboard side of the pad!!
(http://www.camaros.org/images/pages/decoding/1967-69_V8engine_stamp_location.jpg)
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Clearly a restamp.
124378L340400
Agreed. Aren't the VIN characters a little too even (and too close to the head) for original stampings ? JMO -
Regards,
Steve
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And so it continues. Here is his latest reply.. We need more evidence, eBay ad number, pictures, VIN etc. He says it is not this car. Be nice to know, so someone doesn't try to scoop it up cause it's a rare color with low mileage. D
Sorry Dan, but you have the wrong car. This car and engine was sitting safely in a friend of mines garage in 2003. What state was the car in that you are talking about? Marty
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. I have stamped hundreds of cars, but this one is original.
Scarey
I TOTALLY agree...
Would YOU believe someone (on an 'original engine'... who made this statement? I wouldn't)..
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Damn that Freudian slip..... I hate when that happens.... what ever state the cars from it's Not Mine, Trust me... no really!!!! :-X
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I don't need to prove anything. The pad proves it all.
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Kurt,
I get it, I was just hoping for the eBay number and the dates it was listed, that's all. Or something similar so we can finish this up with the seller. I don't want this car sold as a matching/original numbers car. Maybe it is the original engine, and it was decked. Do we have a picture with it decked? Could you just provide a little bit more info and I will forward it on and we are done?... D
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Danny, I could be wrong but I don't think the seller "Marty"wants to know the truth, he's trying to pass off this car come hell or high water. It's all about the Benjamins....
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That car was bought out of Texas with 9000 miles had Magnesium 5 spoke torque thrusts, had hood pins, no radio, M22, HD Brakes, Cowl Plenum, The paint was weak but in no way should the car have been painted or restored...
Here are the photos from the Advertisement, last I had the car was in Georgia.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-C4itwKbZBgg/UgPF60DR7LI/AAAAAAAAItU/YzUrrL1bKXw/w800-h419-no/68%2Boriginal%2BZ28.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--qNvG0j9bTs/UgPF697Xk1I/AAAAAAAAMeA/GROffniQ4LY/w600-h406-no/68%2Boriginal%2BZ28%2Bengine.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-cbBkedmRYl4/UgPF64BXYWI/AAAAAAAAMd8/eKjZvcBsKQ4/w600-h449-no/68%2Borigianal%2BZ28%2Binterior.jpg)
OBTW it has A sedan History as it was campaigned 68-71.
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Well I tried to make it seem like I knew what I was talking about. ;D Here is his reply..
Thanks for the info, but this block was never decked or restamped. I am one of the leading Camaro and Corvette enthusiasts in the country. I know an original stamp when I see one. This one has all original broach marks, etc. and, as I said before, this car was safely in my friend's garage during the period you mentioned. Just because your friend claims to have seen a decked block don't make it so, Dan. If you have real proof come forward. If not, good luck! Marty
NOW is it time to shut him down... ha ha.. Time to pull out the big guns. I guess all those hundreds of blocks he has re-stamped has made him an expert.. D
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Kurt, I got a message back from the owner. Here is his reply.
For once you don't know what you are talking about.... I have all the docs, owners, etc. until this car was new. It has never been decked. I have stamped hundreds of cars, but this one is original. Why in the world would you think this pad had been decked?
I was just curious, as you must have some info from years past about this block? Pictures? I would love to send him a picture or some documentation. Scary, as a friend of mine was starting to look at this car kinda seriously. I have stopped him from purchasing about 6 fake cars. I love this sight, or is it site? It's late ;D... Danny
The ebay seller, 9603mo, must be used to restamping big blocks then, because as Kurt mentioned the stamps are in the wrong order. That is how big blocks are stamped! I guess a little knowledge can be a bad thing.
This car was purchased by TC member TXSS for only $15,000 in March 2003. He was convinced the engine, although decked with no visible numbers, was the original MO 302 and all the casting numbers and dates he posted then are the same as the Ebay car.
Small Block:
(http://www.thecamaro.com/Chevrolet-Camaro-Registry/images/pics/1967z2801_1.jpg)
Big block:
(http://www.thecamaro.com/Chevrolet-Camaro-Registry/images/pics/TO609MQ.JPG)
Ebay car:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjAw/z/gMEAAOSw7ThUlfJm/$_57.JPG)
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Car looked like sh&*t in the old pics...body lines off, under hood full of scale. not taken care off. Hope it goes for 60K+, makes mine worth that much more...
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In the picture of the car showing the crusty underhood view with the ribbed valve covers, it appears to have a cowl induction air cleaner in place on the engine but at the same time doesn't appear to have the firewall opening cut out to make it operable..
OR maybe its just my old eyes playing tricks on me again..
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eyes aren't that old, I think your right.
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http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=25183
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Jack92584 that says it all, back in 2000..... :o guilty!!!
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So send him a link to that thread.
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It's hot enough in the south. And having pants on fire does not make it any better. OUCH, caught in a bold one at that. It has to hurt his ego some that this group busted him. Car has been relisted. Yet another contact name.
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Maybe someone can help me out and link that to Marty, my linking skills are lacking... :-\
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New eBay link...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28-/121530347262?vxp=mtr
Paul
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Maybe that acid trick really works.
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I sent him the link. With a simple statement. "It is your car". I thought it was legit and was 100 percent wrong. Lies will catch up with you. I have been dealing with the same type of thing on two purchases also from Camaro guys that know there cars. Caught one in a lie that was just dumb. I have learned not to trust many of the authorities on these cars.
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Link sent. Whoops, I guess you beat me to it.. .D
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I sent him the link. With a simple statement. "It is your car". I thought it was legit and was 100 percent wrong. Lies will catch up with you. I have been dealing with the same type of thing on two purchases also from Camaro guys that know there cars. Caught one in a lie that was just dumb. I have learned not to trust many of the authorities on these cars.
Keep in mind that it is believed to be an original Z/28 with original drivetrain. Some where along the way someone tried to improve the marketability and didn't know what they where doing. No need to assist them where they went wrong so they can improve their skills!
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Take a look at the bid history. Someone bid about 80 times. There are a few scattered bids, but the one guy went nuts, maybe on purpose? ? D
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Auction ended "error in the listing"
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From 2003
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=25183
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Here is my last reply to him...
Marty,
I have no email stating that you received the car as is… You need to go change the listing and add that the block has been re-stamped. Because it DOES matter! That is the right thing to do. The price will drop 20 or 30K, but that’s the way it goes. If you don’t do that, ya never know, someone might have his cop buddy run the VIN in a few weeks and contact the new owner and give him ALL this info. And suggest that he file a lawsuit right away. I am not saying “I” am going to do that, but just wanna make you aware of what could take place… Good Luck… D
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Good job Danny. It seemed like a lot of mud slinging, but the seller did not want to listen to the truth. Your persistence has brought on a change for the best.
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I would much have preferred it to be the original condition vs the restored condition. It had all kind of appeal before, now it is just another restored 68 Z28, not that there is anything wrong iwth restored cars. That car being stored in TX had mucho potential as an unrestored car, all the crustiness under the hood would be gone in little to no time safest rust remover and cosmoline. The oxidized paint could be polished but none of the metallics back then were very glossy.
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Take a look at the bid history. Someone bid about 80 times. There are a few scattered bids, but the one guy went nuts, maybe on purpose? ? D
Shill bid?