CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: cook_dw on December 02, 2014, 03:21:21 PM
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Yeah I know; scary when that happens. ::) By this picture it has a upper cowl painted all white which would make it seem like a LOS car. But because there are no known LOS cars that have the "PBT" would this be a NOR car with an entire cowl painted or a LOS with "PBT"?
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h52/bertfam/68Z.jpg)
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Not saying it's the case here, but sometimes the semi flat black will reflect enough light to where it almost appears white in older b/w pictures, especially if a flash was used and depending on angles. Sort of an optical illusion.
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Not saying it's the case here, but sometimes the semi flat black will reflect enough light to where it almost appears white in older b/w pictures, especially if a flash was used and depending on angles. Sort of an optical illusion.
I totally agree with Pete... one cannot always believe what their eyes tell them when it comes to light, color, reflections, etc... specular reflections can definitely fool your eyes re color/shade.
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I agree with both of what you guys are saying. But I will respectfully disagree that this is the case with this photo. You can see the flash point by the blower motor wire shadow along with the firewall whiteout from the flash just to the left. Also note that the blower motor wire is on the bottom of the box like the 67 and later 68's have them on the top.
Edit:
There is something else I can not make out what is. Looks like a bracket of some sort just in front of the heater box. I thought it was part of the hood hinge but you can see it just to the left.
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Well one of the things I notice, is while agree the flash point is above the heater box, you will notice as you get farther away from the flash point along the upper cowl it gets less and less white, and by the time you reach the wiper motor it turns into a light overspray. Vs the passenger side where it is very bright white (very close to the flash), and even the rubber seal looks grey with a white (flash) stripe running along it.
This appears to be a 68 Z from the pic, is there no such examples of 68's with the cowl having any white overspray?
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This appears to be a 68 Z from the pic, is there no such examples of 68's with the cowl having any white overspray?
There are plenty of examples of LOS Z cars. My comment was more directed towards LOS cars not getting the "PBT" stamps vs NOR did and LOS cars had the entire cowl painted stripe color vs NOR only doing the pockets under the grates in the cowl panel. This car seems to have the entire cowl painted stripe color and it has the "PBT" stamps.
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Darrell, where is the picture from? Any history on the picture?
I am going to take a bit of time and look over things closely to see if I can add any thoughts.
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Ed Bertrand - as for before that I am uncertain.
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Based on the CT on the Fuel Mixture Control Valve - I believe it is an early 1968 Z28.
See the table here.
http://www.camaros.org/emissions.shtml#valves
And if that is the case, I am bit surprised there is a lack of white paint on the trim tag.
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Based on the CT on the Fuel Mixture Control Valve - I believe it is an early 1968 Z28.
See the table here.
http://www.camaros.org/emissions.shtml#valves
And if that is the case, I am bit surprised there is a lack of white paint on the trim tag.
I realized the CT on the valve. The lack of white on the tag makes me wonder if it is a LOS car. & IF that is the case then when did they stop using the PBT stamps?
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Darrell, where is the picture from? Any history on the picture?
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10034.msg92396#msg92396
Paul
P.S. - Where else have I seen that picture? ;)
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My NOR 69 Z with white stripes looks the same. One side of the cowl is mostly white, the other side is partly white.
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Pic is in another thread. I would still like to know more details about pic and possible build month/week of the car.
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10034.0;all
Details of the pic
It looks like it was posted on Camaros.net back in 2007.
169Indy wrote: "I have a GM photo, copy (SCANNED) of the 68 Z28 engine bay photo that was printed in the Camaro Enthusiast a few years ago and rarely see people reference it with regards to details. Appears to be a Norwood car as evidence by the PTB stampings."
Ed Bertrand posted the picture for 169Indy.
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My NOR 69 Z with white stripes looks the same. One side of the cowl is mostly white, the other side is partly white.
How many NOR Z cars (also include 69 IPCs) have you seen with the entire cowl painted stripe color?
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Mine is - side to side from the pinch welds on the cowl tulips, back to front right down to the edge of the blend line on the firewall. White as it can be.
The pic you posted shows the dumdum around the washer nozzles as black, the surrounding area is definitely white - my pics are pretty sorry (taken for a different post), but show the white areas fairly well.
Just my opinion -
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There is something else I can not make out what is. Looks like a bracket of some sort just in front of the heater box. I thought it was part of the hood hinge but you can see it just to the left.
could that be a splash apron piece that is askew?
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I'm not completely up to speed on the PTB stamps. I understood them to be a rubber type stamp, not a stencil. So how does the P on the passenger side get backwards?
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I'm not completely up to speed on the PTB stamps. I understood them to be a rubber type stamp, not a stencil. So how does the P on the passenger side get backwards?
Excellent question!
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Maybe an upside down B with light amount of ink?
Mike
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Maybe an upside down B with light amount of ink?
Mike
That could be a possibility but if you look just above the hood hinge spring you will see the B. Plus look at the P & B on the other side. You would be able to tell if it were the case. At least I would think anyways.
could that be a splash apron piece that is askew?
Not sure but it looks metal to me..??..
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I could be totally all wet, but on the fan shroud I see writing that appears to me to be a "T" with 12 8 67 below that, and -20 below that? Maybe I'm dreaming?
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I could be totally all wet, but on the fan shroud I see writing that appears to me to be a "T" with 12 8 67 below that, and -20 below that? Maybe I'm dreaming?
Good eye!
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My NOR 69 Z with white stripes looks the same. One side of the cowl is mostly white, the other side is partly white.
How many NOR Z cars (also include 69 IPCs) have you seen with the entire cowl painted stripe color?
Entire - not many. Most of the cowl - quite a few. No IPC's though.
I thought I posted these before. Original owner on the yellow car.
The green one is not my Z, but it's really close. Mine has a bit more white on the driver's side.
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I've seen the backward P before. It must have been a unique stamp.
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Is the pic of the green Z an early 69 NOR or a LOS? Hard to see in the pic. Also assuming that both cars were originally flat hood cars as well?
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Flat hoods had nothing to do with the overspray in the wiper cowl.
1969 Z28 Norwood 10D Early Parked in 1973.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SrvqEqAaaak/USB1naXpj6I/AAAAAAAAB4E/VG82k4LF3RY/w720-h480-no/69_LB_Z_10D_Trimtag.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-XdAoOa-tCaY/UXTBid6CAYI/AAAAAAAACos/veTpdW6KSSw/w648-h434-no/215717_1908049468294_4511386_n.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-wrsNgvi3AOU/UM1gdhnUoVI/AAAAAAAAAEo/-M_KkY9x-K4/w771-h578-no/04.02.10%2B157.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jwEhthSDtUHMADHQ1IAi1y6_n-08KlM1N9u-odkmDJs=w948-h578-no)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ewAIxigdmuo/URBWm_GRZxI/AAAAAAAABVo/69BM9zDqu9Q/w771-h578-no/2013.02.04%2B063.jpg)
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Hood shouldn't matter. Date doesn't matter.
Yellow - 05A
Green - early, 09C
Mine is 01B. It's the inverse of the other green car (more stripe paint on the driver's side, less on pass side). Fathom green, later shot red then black. White stripes.
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I realize the hood has nothing to do with this. I was merely making an observation.
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Ed Montini did a LOW MILE (1100 miles) late Norwood car built after Body Number reset which was in Chicago last Nov, it had heavy firewall overspray too. Ed told me he debated whether or not to restore it as it was photographed on disassembly but ultimately decided to do it as it was built.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-j1xbcaLu8PM/UrahcPrOzoI/AAAAAAAAFqk/hYDDNcnAtcI/w771-h578-no/100_7835.JPG)
It had the interlocking redesigned drivers motor mount as well.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-qa7EEsfp6e4/UraheGYv_1I/AAAAAAAAFqo/HNIDMeW46jo/w771-h578-no/100_7836.JPG)
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My 03D is all white.