CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: SMKZ28 on September 17, 2014, 07:11:13 PM
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I am writing this on behalf of Ruben (RDF) who is the owner of the actual 1969 Camaro RS/SS convertible that was used to pace the NASCAR events at Bristol International Speedway in 1969. Up until a month ago, I thought that there were only three surviving NASCAR 1969 Camaro pace cars. The Daytona 500, North Wilkesboro, and Charlotte Motor Speedway cars have been restored and are known in the hobby but now a fourth has surfaced and is currently residing in Illinois. Click on the following link to see a multi-page topic thread that I created at the Camaro Pace Car web site that includes the correspondence Ruben and I had concerning his Camaro as well as pictures of the way it looked in 1969 and the way it looks today: http://camaropacecars.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3100015833/m/1651091356
I will let Ruben know that I posted this on CRG, so please respond with any comments or suggestions for him concerning his significant Camaro.
Thanks
Scott Koscik
(SMKZ28)
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Dan Kirchner is the guy who found all those pacer pics and he still has the originals and can provide a high quality print. That # is still correct and his email is dansautolit@aol.com.
There were at least 10 cars and I know of 5 (and another possible car). The 5th car is very original and a manual, unlike the others.
Ruben never said if his was an auto or manual.
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The car pictured has a nice ride height, wonder how modified from stock these were? Any other reliable reference sources for further reading would be great!
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I have created topic threads on several of the NASCAR 1969 Camaro RS/SS convertible pace cars over at the Camaro Pace Car site (more to come in the future). Click on the following links to see them.
Newspaper articles from 1968 confirming use of Camaro by NASCAR during 1969 season: http://camaropacecars.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3100015833/m/6951049946
Magazine Articles Featuring the 1969 Camaro RS/SS 396 NASCAR Pace Cars: http://camaropacecars.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3100015833/m/8931061356
Riverside International Raceway: http://camaropacecars.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3100015833/m/4651010746
Daytona International Speedway: http://camaropacecars.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3100015833/m/4031066646 and http://camaropacecars.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3100015833/m/3811006646
Bristol International Speedway: http://camaropacecars.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3100015833/m/4901054056
Atlanta International Raceway: http://camaropacecars.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3100015833/m/9951035156
Asheville-Weaverville Speedway: http://camaropacecars.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3100015833/m/9041093436
Darlington Raceway: http://camaropacecars.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3100015833/m/9921039436
Alabama International Speedway (Talladega): http://camaropacecars.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3100015833/m/2901010256
Charlotte Motor Speedway: http://camaropacecars.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3100015833/m/1861063336 and http://camaropacecars.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3100015833/m/7611004436
Enjoy!
For those interested in learning about Camaro Pace Cars (non-Indy 500) from all five generations click on the following link that brings you to a huge five page section of the Camaro Pace Car site featuring the hundreds of Camaro pace car topic threads I have created: http://camaropacecars.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/3100015833/p/1 Scroll through all five pages to see threads on additional 1969 Camaro pace cars as well as 1967 and 1968.
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Dan Kirchner is the guy who found all those pacer pics and he still has the originals and can provide a high quality print. That # is still correct and his email is dansautolit@aol.com.
There were at least 10 cars and I know of 5 (and another possible car). The 5th car is very original and a manual, unlike the others.
Ruben never said if his was an auto or manual.
Thanks Kurt. I will pass this info on to Ruben. Do you know if Dan has any more pictures that were not featured in the old article from Muscle Cars of the 60's/70's?
Besides the Charlotte, Daytona, North Wilkesboro and now Bristol pace cars, what track were the other Camaros you know of used at? Do you have any pictures of them in their current state? Maybe you could let the current owners of these cars know about the threads I have created (see above post). They might want to see vintage pictures of their pace cars.
Thanks
Scott Koscik
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No pics.
Unknown what tracks.
The 6th car is a wildcard - fits the pattern, but was built later in the year. A replacement or incremental car?
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I just finished a topic thread on the 1969 Camaro RS/SS convertible that was used to pace the NASCAR and other important racing events at Michigan International Speedway in 1969. See it here: http://camaropacecars.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3100015833/m/2621024356
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Ruben never said if his was an auto or manual.
Kurt, Ruben just told me that the car has the automatic transmission.
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Scott did they all have the 68 rear spoilers? Terry
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Terry,
I'm pretty sure they all did have the smaller 1968 style rear spoiler because they were built early in the model year (October of 1968). Although KurtS just mentioned a possible 6th surviving NASCAR pace car that might have been built later in the year and used as a replacement. This car would probably have the normal 1969 spoiler depending on how much later in the model year it was built.
Scott
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Outstanding and neat story Scott. Have all known 69 P-car Trim Tags been compared? I would think the body numbers would be sequential being ordered at the same time.
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To further clarify the rear spoiler question posed earlier by Terry, Ruben responded by saying, "The pics. of my car shows the longer spoiler I kept the one that came with the car which is the shorter spoiler, also have the ss hood in my garage.
He also wants to know if anyone can help him acquire a pretty rare option that originally came with his car. He states that he has, "been trying to locate the fiber optic wire for the front turn lights to the fenders, no one in the after market offers that item. Do you know of any outfit that might have that item!!! please let me know."
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Outstanding and neat story Scott. Have all known 69 P-car Trim Tags been compared? I would think the body numbers would be sequential being ordered at the same time.
I'm not sure. I have never seen any of them in person. I have only read about them in the magazine articles, etc. It would make sense that they would be built sequentially, since they were all Dover White RS/SS convertibles with the blue interior and most of them shared similar options and they were all going to one purchaser.
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He also wants to know if anyone can help him acquire a pretty rare option that originally came with his car. He states that he has, "been trying to locate the fiber optic wire for the front turn lights to the fenders, no one in the after market offers that item. Do you know of any outfit that might have that item!!! please let me know."
There is nothing to the fiber optic 'system' except for the indicators and the fiber optic itself (a coated glass fiber light conveyer).. If he only needs the fiber optic line itself (if his is missing or broken in half), then a corvette supplier would be the best source, as all Corvettes built in several years between '68-9 and 1971 Corvettes had them. Many people think they are more complicated than they are. A response to a similar question on the Corvette Forum addressed this issue very well, which I will repeat here:
"There is nothing mechanical or electrical about fiber optics. They are very simple. Just fiber strands that transmit light very easily, from the light source to the individual lenses in the console. The purpose of these items was to show the driver if there was an external light bulb that was not functioning.
Here are a few of the common reasons why a fiber optic does not work. Check to see if the bulb is burnt out. If the lights were removed to have the car repainted, it is not uncommon for the fiber optic end to get painted over and not allow light to travel to the console. The fiber cable could be broken as a result of a previous accident. Check inside the console to see if the fiber optic cable is connected to the console lenses. When I first got my car, I found some of the cables just not connected to the console lense.
Anyway, this is very basic technology and it is not like trying to run down an electrical problem. As was previously stated, if you have a problem it is pretty easy to just re-run new fiber cable and re-tape it into the harness. IMO. "
ie.. to have them work, the fiber optic line must 1) be present, 2) be clean on the ends, and 3) be installed in the fittings of the console and lamp source.
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The possible #6 car is a 12B, auto. Has the right options and was from TN and has some history.
Haven't heard about the car for a long time...
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As far as these car being sequentially, I thought John Z. said cars that required more labor are spaced out so the production crew have more time to do the extra work. If I'm not mistaken convertibles require more labor. Terry
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As far as these car being sequentially, I thought John Z. said cars that required more labor are spaced out so the production crew have more time to do the extra work. If I'm not mistaken convertibles require more labor. Terry
I believe the body numbers were assigned when the order was received....they could schedule the numbers in any order they preferred.
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convertibles took more time on the Fisher side of the plant. Typical spacing for convertibles is in the 12 to 15 body range. Vinyl top cars are in the 6 to 8 car range. I had a buddy at work who working in a Pontiac assembly plant and he sai they could install a convertible top in about 15 minutes. They worked in groups that travelled with the body for those 15 minutes and then went back to the beginning of the trim shop to pick up the next top. There was usually 2 groups operating at one time.
If you placed an order for 10 identical Convertibles and the orders were all accepted and processed together they could have sequential body numbers, but the vins would be spaced out by a minimum of 12 numbers because Fisher would have spaced them out to even their work load and they would arrived at GMs side of the plant still spaced apart when the VINs were assigned. People who say they've seen groups of convertibles going down the line one after the other on the Fisher side of the plant are smoking something funny.
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He also wants to know if anyone can help him acquire a pretty rare option that originally came with his car. He states that he has, "been trying to locate the fiber optic wire for the front turn lights to the fenders, no one in the after market offers that item. Do you know of any outfit that might have that item!!! please let me know."
There is nothing to the fiber optic 'system' except for the indicators and the fiber optic itself (a coated glass fiber light conveyer).. If he only needs the fiber optic line itself (if his is missing or broken in half), then a corvette supplier would be the best source, as all Corvettes built in several years between '68-9 and 1971 Corvettes had them. Many people think they are more complicated than they are. A response to a similar question on the Corvette Forum addressed this issue very well, which I will repeat here:
"There is nothing mechanical or electrical about fiber optics. They are very simple. Just fiber strands that transmit light very easily, from the light source to the individual lenses in the console. The purpose of these items was to show the driver if there was an external light bulb that was not functioning.
Here are a few of the common reasons why a fiber optic does not work. Check to see if the bulb is burnt out. If the lights were removed to have the car repainted, it is not uncommon for the fiber optic end to get painted over and not allow light to travel to the console. The fiber cable could be broken as a result of a previous accident. Check inside the console to see if the fiber optic cable is connected to the console lenses. When I first got my car, I found some of the cables just not connected to the console lense.
Anyway, this is very basic technology and it is not like trying to run down an electrical problem. As was previously stated, if you have a problem it is pretty easy to just re-run new fiber cable and re-tape it into the harness. IMO. "
ie.. to have them work, the fiber optic line must 1) be present, 2) be clean on the ends, and 3) be installed in the fittings of the console and lamp source.
Gary is correct, nothing high tech about fiber optics. When I worked on C5A aircraft in the USAF, in the cargo compartment by the main entrance/exit door there was an access panel that had a 1 1/2" diameter single strand fiber optics cable that we could see right down into the front landing gear compartment which was maybe 15-20 feet away. It was used to verify if the landing gear was in the down and locked position if there was a panel light out or some other landing gear malfunction. Very useful item to have there as a back up and along side it was a hand crank to lower and lock the gear by hand if no hydraulics.
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Ruben, I too was working on a car with fiber optics, and like you missing some line. I found about two feet at a Corvette shop in Portland, Oregon about 6 years ago and that was all they had, and I was still short but made due with what I had. I know the telecommunication industries have been using fiber optic cable for years. It's a long shot but might be worth calling one up and asking some questions. Also if your chrome parts are pitted have them rechromed, the after market ones are crap and they need a lot of modifying to make them usable with the original optic parts, sorry I could not be more help finding the cable. Terry
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I have some cable, but I have to look and see which diameter goes to the front (there are 2 different diameter cables in the system).
Or even better if someone knows.....
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Not sure if these are known photos or were posted previously in this thread as the links are dead but ran across them yesterday.
Bristol Speedway - Volunteer 500 and unknown (possibly same race) Miss Tennessee
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Great photos! Where did you find them?
It looks to me like it was taken at the drag strip prior to the running of the AHRA Spring Nationals drag races held at the Bristol International Dragway June 6-8, 1969 in Bristol, Tennessee. The words on the rear of the Camaro are there to advertise the upcoming NASCAR event.
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Not to change the subject but Bristol also used a SUPERBIRD as a pace car Ray Evernham owns it.
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Hey DW,
That would be (at the time) Mary Cox, former Miss Johnson City, who won the title in '69. Wears the same hair and tiara as the official picture (also makes sense as she's from right down 11E from Bristol).
As usual, find anything on the internet -
Regards,
Steve
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Can you find a recent picture of the car.....or miss Johnson city on the internet?
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Since this thread is 5 years old the links to my threads over at the Pace Car website no longer work. When I get a chance I will be posting all of the information that appeared in those threads along with some new pictures I have found in the "Promotional Events and Concept Cars" section of this forum here at CRG.
Unfortunately I lost contact with Reuben, the owner of the '69 Bristol Pace Car, so I do not know the current status of the car.
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Hi there guys:
I'm Ruben the one that owns the 69 Bristol camaro , I'm sorry I have been out of touch with the club, i'm still here and reading most of the post on the clubs web, I'm looking at the beautiful pictures posted of the 69 bristol camaro and miss johnson city.
thank you for that and if there are any questions out there regarding my camaro please let me know or text me at ( figueroaas@yahoo.com ) or call me at 815 557 3251.
thanks again and hope to hear from you soon.
Regards Ruben.