CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: dannystarr on July 17, 2014, 07:17:20 PM
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My girlfriend seen me interested in this car, and how I was watching the rebuild of Chick's Butternut Yellow Z/28 and bought this car. Seems to be original from the air cleaner wing nut to the wheels excluding water pump, hoses, belts, battery, battery cables, Rad cap { anybody have one } and small misc items. Even the exhaust is original. Had Cowl Plenum system installed, and stolen while in storage? Comes with POP, and Owner Protection booklet. I wanted to run the plates but all of my highway patrol and local cop buddies have retired. The DMV here in CA says the plates are still in another name. NCRS paperwork shows GM overseas distribution, possibly the Netherlands.
I spent well over 100 hours getting info.
Seems the first owner drove it for just about 6.5 months give or take a week of days. Put A LOT of miles on it, about 18,590. Don’t have his name, not on any early receipts…Maybe traded it in to “Central Chevrolet” in Fremont, CA Late '68 or early '69. Delivery states overseas dealer, possibly the Netherlands. But could have been ordered from overseas, but picked up here state side. Maybe shipped or not, don’t know. Probably a serviceman.
Sat on the lot in CA for 3 months? Person I believe is the second owner Richard Ward Anderson lived in Santa Rosa, CA (?) and seen the ad from that dealership and purchased the car March 26th ‘69 and kept it until the late 80’s. Lived in Santa Rosa but also had a house in Pebble Beach? As there is a receipt from Santa Rosa a while after purchase, then scattered receipts all from around Monterey County. But may have bought some tires and spark plugs around 4 of ’69 in Santa Rosa. Although his name is not on THOSE receipts. Then subsequently parked it in Pebble Beach inside a garage near the coast for a while. Registration trail ends in ’89 ? Then a guy bought it and had it for many many years and never registered it in his name. Then his friend bought it from him 2 years ago. It was titled in his name with a current pink slip in another state, but still had the original CA plates. YKZ 821
Car underside has slight faded Yellow underneath and in great condition. Has all original floors, trunk and GM panels. Looks to be a true Survivor! Not a major dent in it anywhere! 56K original Miles. Fires right up and runs good. No major rot. But a little silver dollar spot at usual area bottom body by door. And some around rear window left side. All original paint. Heater core leaking, bypassed. Front bumper bowed at right center slightly. No #3908326 proportioning valve on drivers frame. Please look it over and let me know what you can spot good or bad. And if you have a connection for past documentation of any kind or ownership.... Danny
VINCheckSM
Results for VIN: 124378N445453
VINCheckSM Theft Record
124378N445453 has not been identified as a vehicle listed in VINCheckSM Theft Records
VINCheckSM Total Loss Record
Further information is available through Carfax .
124378N445453 has not been identified as a vehicle listed in the VINCheckSM Total Loss Records.
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More Pics...
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Documentation...
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Don,t know about the car but I might would keep the girlfriend.
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more...
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Buff it up and drive it. KEEP the GF.
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Does she have any sisters?
VT
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Congrats Danny! Looks like a great project. Couldn't have come at a better time! Best of luck with it. The POP looks to be a replacement as the name and address of the owner is stamped in tin and not dymol tape. I am very happy for you. My wife is great, but she has never bought me a car! She is a keeper.
Buddy
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Does she have any sisters?
VT
That was what I was going to ask. :)
I would do minor detailing and leave it as close to how you got it for a while. Maybe fix the heater core if you want, but that would be about it.
Make sure it is SAFE to drive. Check the brakes and maybe flush all fluids.
You can always restore it later. It is only a survivor once. Good luck!
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Very cool. where did you find that gem?
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The GF or the car? :D
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Vince your killin me bro.... I was thinking the same thing after posting, and thought "nah nobody would get it'...
(Danny where did you find the car, or where did she find it?)
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That car is awesome and so is your girlfriend. You're a lucky guy. Congrats!
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Nice...
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http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=12146.0
Paul
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thanks, thought it looked familiar.
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Danny, here is the ad the 2nd owner saw. Did the previous owner give you this when you bought the car? I had found the ad for it by chance (before the car surfaced) when I was looking through old newspaper ads online and saving ones with vins. It was a fluke that this car later surfaced only months after I found the ad! I have the full page PDF saved if you want a copy. Just shoot me an email. Warren
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Very cool find, Warren. :)
Paul
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Danny, thanks for posting the pictures. Great car and four thumbs up to the girl friend. Better marry her, before she gets away. Give that girl a diamond and no telling what she will buy you...!!!!!
TMR
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Thanx guys, yes it is a nice treat for sure. As the link above shows, it was discussed on CRG a few weeks back. And so that is where we seen it. I replaced the front calipers and brake lines as they were pouring brake fluid. Rears are ok for now. I did a compression test and all cylinders were between 155 and 172#'s, one cylinder was 180#'s. I installed a set of points and condenser, cap and rotor and a set of wires and set the dwell at 30. Book said between 28 and 32. So I went in the middle, is that ok?? Set the timing with a vacuum gauge. Brought it up to the highest point, then backed it off a single pound and set it tight. Flushed and bled the brake fluid and installed an aftermarket master for now. Hooked up the vacuum advance to a tee at the choke pull-off for manifold vacuum. And plugged the Ported vacuum at the carb. Radiator was full of anti-freeze. I will flush it soon. Installed new thermostat. Replaced top and bottom hose for now. Carb float bowl levels were to high and weeping out the top, so I set those. Set the idle at 900. I was going to wire off the choke as we really don't need them here in CA, but I left it, and put the stainless piano wire back in the tool box.
Took it for a spin, and it pulls pretty good. There is no tach so I took it easy and didn't wind it to high. Took it up to about 70MPH. Good Times!! Going to leave it like this for now and run it for the summer. Then we will see. Danny
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good for you brother ,32 degrees dwell ,38 total advance timing.---steve.
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Thanx...Copy that, I will take it to 32 later tonight. I use vacuum to set the timing, but I will get out my timing light and do some checking.... Danny
Warren, yes I have that sheet you sent him. Very cool for sure. That is where I think Richard seen the car and bought it. I am still researching that. But what a find to actually have that ad. And it has the date of Jan 1st. '69. That's how I figured out about how long the first owner had the car. Thanx again... Danny
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More pics... Look close and you can see the butternut yellow overspray on the cowl tag... Danny
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Easy enough to just take the choke out completely. 2 or 3 pumps and it will fire for you, if tuned.
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VIN plate at Drivers Dash...Trans stamps and First hidden VIN at Passenger Cowl.... Danny
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Cowl VIN
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Very cool! I looked at where you saw it and didn't realize I was the one that brought it up!
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Danny... super nice find.. on both.. :)
and I like the car.. just do what maintenance you need to do, keep as much of the original parts as possible... and PRESERVE the body (ie. stop the rust and prevent it's growing).. :)... scrub, clean, treat.. touch up.. whatever you need to do to prevent it's getting worse.. and preserve as much of the original paint as possible .. as long as possible. :)
Gary
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GREAT CAR!
You are going to have Fun.
Jim
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Danny is that a "C "after the P8E29 on the 4 speed? If so wouldn't it be a M-22 trans?
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Make sure you tell her she's the star of this thread.
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Hey Vince, I seen that also. It actually looks like the bottom of another E to me. But you are right, it could be a baby C. I can tell you it doesn't have the bottom drain plug, so I think it's an M-20? I will post the other trans pic's. I am hoping all of you experts chime in and keep chiming in to tell me the stamps, and numbers look good. I spent a lot of time collecting data.... Danny
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Both heads dated May 6th '68
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Cowl Tag info
O5E
68-12437 NOR 145458 BODY
TR - 712 YY PAINT
O5E = 5th Week of May
68 -12437 = 1968 Camaro Coupe
NOR = Body Assembly Plant - Norwood Ohio
145458 = Fisher Body Unit Number
TR -712 = Black Standard Bucket Seats Interior
YY = Butternut Yellow Paint – Lower/Upper No Vinyl Top
Protection Plan Booklet Info
E YY 124378N445453 H
VO523MO BU0524G 6
P8E29 2 63
Note: POP shows rear axle code BU0524G
Actual rear axle stamping in car is BUO525G
Was this a common mistake to be a day or so off in either direction? Especially with SO MANY 4’s & 5’s in the VIN? Could this be a good thing to show some human error?
Engine Front Pad Assembly Date/Plant/Suffix Code VIN
V0523MO
V = Flint Michigan
05 = Numeric Month of the Year - May
23 = Numeric Day of the Month 23rd - Thursday
MO = Suffix Code – Z/28 4-speed Transmission
18N445453 – Partial VIN
Rear Axle Assembly Stamp / Casting Number
BU 0525 G2
E
BU = Rear Axle Ratio Code - 3:73
05 = Numeric Month of the Year - May
25 = Numeric Day of the Month - 25th Day - Saturday
G = Gear Axle Plant - Detroit
2 = Shift Code – Second Shift
E = Positraction Manufacturer Code – Eaton Company
Casting # 3894860
= 12 Bolt Rear End
Rear Axle #’s / Casting Date
E208
E = Month of the Year – May
20 = Numeric Day of the Month – 20th Day
8 = Last Digit of Year 1968
= Monday May 20th 1968
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Cowl Tag rivet backs...
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Block Casting Date...
Block Casting Date = E218
E = Month of the Year - May
21 = Numeric Day of the Month - 21st. Day
8 = Year - 1968
= Tuesday May 21st. 1968
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Rear Axle #'s...
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Trans Side cover...and ID Part Number Tag
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Block numbers above oil filter, embossed in block. 944 657 78N What are these??
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Maybe it will look like one of these some day...
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Great car Danny, very pleased you got it! And if I were you, I'd put a ring on your girl's finger, she deserves it.
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Hey Vince, I seen that also. It actually looks like the bottom of another E to me. But you are right, it could be a baby C. I can tell you it doesn't have the bottom drain plug, so I think it's an M-20? I will post the other trans pic's. I am hoping all of you experts chime in and keep chiming in to tell me the stamps, and numbers look good. I spent a lot of time collecting data.... Danny
1968 Muncies that have that little 'c' after the code doesn't mean they are an M22... It's probably an M20... as you said.
Danny, you're doing a great job of documenting the stampings, codes, and numbers for your car.. I suggest you make a digital document (and preserve it) for all the data you are collecting. That will go great with the car... :)
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<< Block numbers above oil filter, embossed in block. 944 657 78N What are these?? >>
Those are foundry pattern numbers - in case there was a problem with the casting, they knew which pattern made the mold the block was cast from.
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Gary thanx, I have ALOT more info. I will slowly get it posted. It's fun, especially when it is correct and matching of course. I am trying to do a nice clean clear picture taking job of it all.
JohnZ, Can you tell me what these frame numbers are? The are on the outside right frame rail in the wheel well. Can't quite read it all, but you can see the 68. I am surprised they are still there.
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Motor Pics...
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More Motor
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Good stuff ! thanks for sharing.
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Does she have any sisters?
VT
I'm interested to know the answer to this ?
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The trans tag 3915085 is for an M21.
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As far as sisters, she is 42 on Sunday and an only child. Sorry about that.. :(
And yes I am taking care of her for her birthday, in MANY ways!! ;) ;)
And Marty, thanx very much on the trans info. Hadn't researched it yet.
More pics... Air Cleaner wing nut.. Carb is a correct carb but too early as it is dated Jan, Air Cleaner assembly
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This is one of those threads that you can't wait to see the latest post and pics. These originals are very intriguing. Congrats Danny!
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Thanx, and I will take picture requests. I have it all... You cannot stump me... ha ha
Booster Vacuum hose bracket, 2 Piece Throttle Linkage, Return Spring, Alt with "GT" Stamped Mounting Brackets, Dip Stick, Rad Support Sticker, Fan and Clutch, Thermostat Neck, Radiator tag was in glove box, kinda rotted at mounting point.
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Danny I got to say it is so great to see you are obviously feeling better, excited about this special find car, but mostly you have got someone who obviously loves you to make your meals, give up her house to you for a week, and then buy you this car. Its like a fairy tail story. I will be checking every day for new updates on how things progress. Best of health to you and keep the pictures coming. George
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Danny the yellow markings on the subframe is the date code, there was a thread on this subject here or at TC so I'll see if I can find & post the link. But from memory, the date codes pictured in that thread were on 69s and located on the drivers side where the bumper bracket attached.
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Hey George, yes it is a blast. I am not feeling to bad. Don't have the strength I did but making it happen the best I can. Trying to forget about the 66 THOUSAND dollars in hospital bills, AFTER insurance. The girlfriend is awesome! And for sure a keeper. Thanx...
ZLP I figured it was some kind of a date code of course cause it has a '68 at the end. But I had never seen anything like this. This car has a lot of cool stuff when it comes to numbers. More to come.
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Pitman arm, Idler arm, Motor mounts, Steering arms, Caliper brackets, Backing plates
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more, Coil Ballast Resistor marked Delco Remy,
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Inside front fender, mounting fasteners of Z/28 Emblems
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more steering and front end part numbers
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more... Piece of black tape under right side of deck lid under spoiler. But not on left side?
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more
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under rear spoiler
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Voltage Regulator, Horn Relay
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more
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Danny, found the thread discussing subframe markings - link here:
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=11678.0
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Awesome, thank you, will go there now and check it out... Then gotta hit the sheets...
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Rear Brake Drums and 46 Year Old Brake drum " BU " Sticker - Right Side
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Starter and solenoid - Starter Support Stabilizer Bracket
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brake booster
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Distributor
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Manual Steering Box
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Speedometer Firewall Penetration
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Danny, outstanding photos! Keep them coming!!! :)
Paul
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Gas Tank
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Front Rotors, Left side stamped 142 G1... What is this?
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congratulations that's a great find , its like a cool Camaro rat rod the way it is , with original patina
hows the Muncie shifter working on it?
they can get pretty bad with old dried out original grease in them
would like to see pics of the Muncie shifter if you get a chance
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Danny, try a little white vinegar on the chrome. Soak a rag with it and tape it on for about 24 hours. Then use some baking soda water to neutralize it.
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Danny, I saw the harness clip (retainer) on the alternator is white, are the other T shaped harness retainers on the engine harness also white? George
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That car is awesome looking! Don't know what direction you are going to go with the paint but the "patina" look is really popular with old truck guys. If your surface rust isn't to bad you could CLR it to remove the rust and bring back the paint. Just do a google search for CLR patina car and you can see some results. Some of these cars look amazing afterwards. Congrats on that car though!
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Thanx Paul, I know my fellow enthusiasts want pictures pictures, then more pictures. So like I mentioned, I will make that happen. As I have spent probably well over 100 hours. This car is pretty darn original for sure. EVERYTHING is dated May '68. All the requirements of date stamping times according to CRG are correct. This needs to be stamped before this, and this needs to be with-in this many days of that and so on...
Hey JoeC, the shifter is not bad. I saturated it with white lithium grease and just soaked it with that. It was already ok, but shifts well. I then read to not use that kind of lubricant on shifters... whoops.. I have some pictures of the shifter, they are not great cause it's tucked up in the well, but I will post them right now.
Maroman, I had never heard of that. I will give it a shot as I have 2 or 3 gallons of white vinegar. I use it to clean the combustion chambers in On Demand tankless water heaters. It gets really hot in that garage, right at 90 a couple days ago. So I better do it on a day like yesterday... 77 outside. So much cooler in garage.
George, I noticed that clip also. It is sticking out a bit and still holding on. I will be at my girlfriends garage later today. I will follow the harness and try to get you some pictures. If not, tomorrow should work.
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Hey Hoss, thanx, yes it is pretty cool for sure... Nice job with the CLR. Looks like a commercial for the company. ;D I have to say there is spots where there is NO paint. The rust is deep. I am leaving it all as it is. I will buff it out and treat it and leave it be. I don't have thousands of dollars for a paint job. I barely had enough money to buy the water pump last week. So paints not going to happen.
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Hey Hoss, thanx, yes it is pretty cool for sure... Nice job with the CLR. Looks like a commercial for the company. ;D I have to say there is spots where there is NO paint. The rust is deep. I am leaving it all as it is. I will buff it out and treat it and leave it be. I don't have thousands of dollars for a paint job. I barely had enough money to buy the water pump last week. So paints not going to happen.
Danny, if that stuff eliminates/minimizes the 'brown rust', then it would be a good idea... if you do that, then wax the car, it will protect it from further rust, and it will look better... especially if it's garaged... :)
PS. the '142' on your front hub/rotor is likely the julian date for it's production, as it's right in line with all the other original parts on your car... :)
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HELP... Just realized I don't know what oil to run. Gotta change it as it smells of gas and surely has no viscosity left. I put a whole container of Lucas oil treatment in it, and it has been in there during the whole timing, point dwell set and carb adjustments. So now I wanna drain it and then drain it again. I bought 3 filters but have no oil. Someone mentioned to buy Jo Gibb oil at 10 bucks a quart cause it has the proper lubricants added. AFTER the flushing of it all. What is this oil?? Only 56 thousand original miles, but sat for probably 20 years or more. Also what trans and rear diff fluid do I use. And should I add GM posi additive in the rear? I wanna try to buy all this stuff in the next week or so if I can get the money together. It's killing me, I wanna drive this baby.. :) :)
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We run Lucas in the race motor ( higher zinc content ) and I'll run it in the Z when it gets back on the road---check Summit prices , cost slips my mind right now but cheaper than synthetics . We buy it in 2 1/2 gallon jugs. Switched from VR-1. Just does not seem to break down ,and no fumes/steam from the breather's catch tank anymore. Pretty sure it comes in 10W40. BTY my Z's 04D--pretty close build dates!
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Front Rotor.. I thought so... In my notes 142 is Tuesday May 21st 1968. But I wonder what the G1 is?? Just fun to learn ya know..
I sure wish some of the more knowledgeable guys than me would chime in and tell me if the...Windshield VIN Plate - Hidden VIN Stamp - Block Casting - Block Casting Date - Front Pad Stamps - Trans VIN - Trans Assembly - ALL Rear End stamping - Serial Number Production Dates...Are original for sure, as I am getting nervous. At least tell me if the Cowl Tag and Rivets Look ok... Kurt, Jerry M, Mark, Ed, William, Joe, Paul, Chick, Ted, Pete, Frank, Mike, Dan, Sam, Jim, Harry, Brian, Brendan, Matt, Alan, Andy, Darrell, Cameron, David, Dennis... Wow there is a lot of names, Not even in e's and G's yet.. I better stop. Of course some of these are for fun.. ;D
Jano, I will buy the Lucas 10W/40, Sounds good to me. I was hoping some other guys with close, even closer than yours, would chime in with some comparisons on stamps, dates and fonts. We'll see...
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Shifter and a Couple underneath..
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more shifter
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under Bell Housing
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Front Rotor.. I thought so... In my notes 142 is Tuesday May 21st 1968. But I wonder what the G1 is?? Just fun to learn ya know..
I sure wish some of the more knowledgeable guys than me would chime in and tell me if the...Windshield VIN Plate - Hidden VIN Stamp - Block Casting - Block Casting Date - Front Pad Stamps - Trans VIN - Trans Assembly - ALL Rear End stamping - Serial Number Production Dates...Are original for sure, as I am getting nervous. At least tell me if the Cowl Tag and Rivets Look ok... Kurt, Jerry M, Mark, Ed, William, Joe, Paul, Chick, Ted, Pete, Frank, Mike, Dan, Sam, Jim, Harry, Brian, Brendan, Matt, Alan, Andy, Darrell, Cameron, David, Dennis... Wow there is a lot of names, Not even in e's and G's yet.. I better stop. Of course some of these are for fun.. ;D
Jano, I will buy the Lucas 10W/40, Sounds good to me. I was hoping some other guys with close, even closer than yours, would chime in
IIRC... the G1 or G2.. etc.. relates to the production shift.. at least for rear ends and such...?
PS. your car mechanically appears as 'original' as any I've seen lately.. Just clean.. light oil/lubricate to preserve function and appearance.. :)
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For oil, check out :
http://www.classiccarmotoroil.com
Has the right amount of zinc for flat tappet cams. Cost is $69.50 a case (12 quarts). I picked up a couple of cases while I was in Indiana. I had them send me one case to California ($15 shipping). Even with the shipping cost, it works out to about $7 a quart, and the delivery is quick. You can save on shipping if you are near Indianapolis, just arrange to pick it up... ;)
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Danny....one of the shifter rods has a loose lock nut . Did you do that? Also...you showed a ballast resistor...there was no ballast resistor in the '68. It was a ballast resistor wire. Thanks for the photos...will keep comparing to my 07C. Already have noticed something interesting....my engine block and heads have casting dates almost identical to yours but my engine assembly date is 06-19. Guess they had a stockpile of those dates and were still using them even in June.
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Honestly I'd just spring the 20 bucks for Jerry's book...sooo much easier to utilize it as reference while recording #'s off your car. Wonderful what you are doing with the pictorial posts here. Can never have here on the site ,IMO.
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Jerry I did not notice that. I will make a note and when it is up in the air next for Trans service, I will check them all. I was wondering about that resistor, as I have never seen another one on a '68. I thought it dropped the voltage from 12 to 8 volts to save the points?? Or is what I have there for the radio? Again... help me out people... I read online that there is something about May and June in '68. They have a lot of discrepancies with blocks and other parts. Maybe somebody will chime in, as I forgot what it said.
Jano, I have all of Jerry's books. But as you know, there is a lot of stuff NOT in those books. And it always seem to be the stuff "I" need to know... ha ha
Ok, off to install the water pump. Maybe some more pic's first... Danny
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562 written by hand on the right side fire wall and on the back side of the front valance ?? Anybody know what that is. Could it be the 562 car of that day? I can't find that number anywhere else on the car.. Danny
Also "22" hand written on inside of right front wheel.
Anybody know what these numbers are?
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Front spring labels
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Danny...as to the number on the firewall...yes it is a run number. On my '68, I have the number 22 on the firewall, inside front valence, and on the backside of the spare wheel. I've seen several early cars that have a ballast resistor....usually added because of a faulty resistor wire. Might check the wiring from the resistor and see if it goes to the coil. If it has a standard '68 radio then it should be 12v powered so it wouldn't need a resistor.
Water pump? Were you recently hunting for a 326 water pump? Thought I responded to a post on here about someone wanting a 326 pump and we discussed dates.
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Master Cylinder found in trunk
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Might be interesting to see a complete spring tag. I think there was a post recently about finding the right spring tag so that a correct repro could be made (might have been on TC site). Man you have some good original stuff on this car....could be very interesting for an example of the correct restoration.
BTW....that WT stamped master cylinder is the correct one for the 68 Z28.
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I was actually going to try to get one of those off to preserve it. I have the "BU" sticker from the back right drum. It would be tough to get the spring label as I can't get my hands in there. It was hell just getting the pictures. I am going to send out the front calipers, and the master to be rebuilt but not restored cosmetically. Reinstall those and maybe a few other things.... Danny
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I was actually going to try to get one of those off to preserve it. I have the "BU" sticker from the back right drum. It would be tough to get the spring label as I can't get my hands in there. It was hell just getting the pictures. I am going to send out the front calipers, and the master to be rebuilt but not restored cosmetically. Reinstall those and maybe a few other things.... Danny
Lonestar ? nice people.
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Danny ,check and see if your pass side tail pipe is welded to the muffler ,curious.--steve.
How are your 3 flex lines ? ( front 2 calipers , 1 rear) I'd shelve the OE's and replace. Cool to say they are "original' but pedal stiffness will suffer if they got soft over the years. Mic your rotors and measure your drums to see if still in spec---repack your inner/outer front bearings. I'd also change the 90 wt in the rear end (add your additive) and the Munci. My front end is still tight, if yours is ,use a high quality grease ( I like red) and pump the old stuff out. Don't forget the steering gear box.
Shelve the belts (or throw the in your trunk for the shows, good conversation stuff) for Dayco cogs. Hoses also for that matter, or at least check at operating temp if they are collapsing. Rubber fuel line back at the tank.
No fuel leaks at the metering blocks ? While running spray a little WD40 (not a fan of water) around the base plate and monitor RPM to see if it's sucking any air.
All in all these are very simple cars ,a "little love" will go a long way with them. I understand the survivor thing, but if you plan on driving her ,make sure she's sound.--steve
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Danny, as the oil smells of gas, just wondering if the fuel pump diaphragm might have perished - especially if you've fired the car up recently on modern gas - and could be filling the oil pan. There was a recent thread on TC where a finned valve cover shattered due to a buildup of fuel vapor.......
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Danny is that a "C "after the P8E29 on the 4 speed? If so wouldn't it be a M-22 trans?
I have been looking at that small c on the Muncies in 68 GM vehicles for about 5-6 years. It seems to be an inspection mark, but not 100 percent sure on that.
As already mentioned the 3915085 transmission tag is correct for an M21 in 1968 used with 3.55 and lower (but numerically higher) rear axles. So it is correctly matched with your BU rear.
G1 on your rotors is Detroit Gear and Axle plant, 1st shift.
Some white lithium grease on the shifter is not a problem.
Try to post a picture of the inside of the deck lid in the area right under where that tape is. I am pretty sure I know why the tape is there. Probably because the emblem was relocated higher up on the deck lid (second set of holes made) so the rear spoiler could be mounted. Tape kinda helps cover those holes.
I will try to look over all of the pics. Just quickly went over them for now.
I think I would put on a new fuel pump (but keep the old one). I agree it may be putting fuel into the crankcase.
As for oil type and brand, lots of debates on that. You might consider one of the oils for diesel engines. Use a good Wix or Napa filter.
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NAPA puts their name on Wix--good filters.
Agree totally with replacing the fuel pump and shelving the OE.
Oil....you could send a sample out to Amsoil(there is a kit they send you) and see what it reads. Tells tales of engine wear and what. (Original owner is a regional rep...I still run Lucas LOL !...don't say anything!) Oil will stink after sitting for how many years in your engine??
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Danny....would it be possible to show a couple of photos of the PCV valve....curious to see, if it is the original, what it looks like. Thanks in advance.
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......... can't type wiping the drool from my chin......... wow you must have been born with a horseshoe up your (cough) nose! Seriously, this is what we all dream of discovering and dragging home. Suhweeeeeet.
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"As for oil type and brand, lots of debates on that. You might consider one of the oils for diesel engines. "
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Actually there are different detergents in the diesel oil like Delo, or the Shell rotella , that are not helpful for a naturally aspirated motor. They do contain a little bit more zinc, but are counter-productive because of the other additives specific for diesel motors. I have researched this some. The previously mentioned Joe Gibbs oil, I think Royal Purple may make a special high zinc oil, and the classic car oil, would be the best for it. I think you can also use the Lucas break in oil, along with just your typical motor oil as Jano stated as well, and be in good shape.
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1:10 am right now... Gotta sleep... I will get to all the questions and more pictures Monday, as it is the girlfriends Birthday Sunday... Actually it is Sunday isn't it... Ok some more pictures real quick...
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Trunk area, spare, jack etc. I spent 6 hours detailing the trunk... Danny
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more trunk...
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more trunk
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more trunk...
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After seeing those CLR pics, I would love to see a couple before and after of your car done, it seems like a great candidate for it. I am happy for you and your girlfriend, hope you guys have a good time on Sunday.
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more trunk...
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couple more trunk, then sleepy time...
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Your excitement is motivating me to get back to it this fall :)
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Great thread. Looks like a great car to learn from. Plenty of pics for everyone to see and refer to in the future.
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Exhaust...A few pics before I leave for the day... Answer q's later or tom... Danny
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more exhaust... Holes patched, Brake Line and Fuel Line replaced after these pics were taken
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more exhaust...
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more exhaust...
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more exhaust...
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More Exhaust...
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and still more...
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last ones... Almost
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couple more...
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last ones.. for real this time ;D
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Dinner at the "Cheese Cake Factory" in San Francisco postponed for now. Woke up this morning 8am super dizzy and nauseas. Just had some Cheerios and feeling much better. Just faintly dizzy. Going to get some food to go and hang at the girlfriends house tonight. So of course, I had to post some pictures... Danny
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Drive line markings. Had a hell of a time getting something to show up color wise. Looks like 4 stripes ... Orange - Yellow - Orange - Yellow
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Interior is very nice... Windows were down for who knows how long. Hours and Hours getting the inside cleaned. Carpet showing wear at drivers feet side and fading throughout. Looks to be all original. Headliner, Door Panels, Dash and all seats nice. Couple small cracks in drivers door handle top pad. No other damage... Danny
NOTE; I have detailed pictures of factory carpet cuts under seats if needed.
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more interior...
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more interior...
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more interior...
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more interior...
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more interior...
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more interior...
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more interior...
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more interior...
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more interior...
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Last interior...
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Forgot to post these other trunk angles...
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Original front and rear carpet tags..
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Jano - Steve- As you can see the muffler at tailpipe is welded, and I think all the exhaust is original.
All three of the rubber brake lines are changed. Will do Trans, Rear and Steering box fluid. Steering box is weeping oil, is there a sealer to add for now?? Will mic out the rotors and drums for thickness safety .
Belts and radiator hoses along with heater hoses not original. So changed it all out. Except heater hoses, left those looped for now, until I do the heater core this winter.
Fuel line back at the tank has been changed along with the clamps. Keep all old stuff...
Carb not sucking air at base, neither is manifold. Carb just needs work. I put a rag over the carb primaries and the engine dies in a half of second.
Tim - ZLP - Trying to get the money together for fuel pump, and carb rebuild, that's about 3 or $400 I don't have right now.
BCMiller - Did you see the extra holes in the deck lid you were talking about? Do you need better closer pictures?
Jerry G. - Pictures of PCV coming right up. NOTE it is purple, just like the one everybody said was not correct. But maybe not original, I shook it and it is loose, probably going to leave it, or no??
HOTROD68 - TOO funny, yes I guess that horseshoe jumped up my butt on this one eh? Good times!! I notice you have yourself a nice butternut yellow ride. Give me 40K and you can have mine.. ha ha
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PCV.. Purple, correct?
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More PCV...
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Here it is... My girlfriend dug out some CLR last night at 10pm and said let's try it on your car. Who am I to say no... Here is the results of 5 minutes exposure with full strength CLR on the right, and same with Evaporust on the left. Both scrubbed with major elbow grease for timed amount of exposure time with new scotchbrite pads.. Going to wet some paper towels with evaporust and lay them on the hood and top of car over night. The rest will have to be elbow grease.
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More Paint pics..
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Thanks Danny....excellent photos of the valve. One more check...does the valve have a number code, maybe like a date code, on it. I have a couple of later ones that have a two digit code on them.
Again....Thanks
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Here it is... My girlfriend dug out some CLR last night at 10pm and said let's try it on your car. Who am I to say no... Here is the results of 5 minutes exposure with full strength CLR on the right, and same with Evaporust on the left. Both scrubbed with major elbow grease for timed amount of exposure time with new scotchbrite pads.. Going to wet some paper towels with evaporust and lay them on the hood and top of car over night. The rest will have to be elbow grease.
From the photo, I like what the CLR did to your fender... I'd use that on all the rusted paint areas..
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For those that have used Evaporust or CLR, should rags be soaked and left laying on surface for a while? How long? I have a project I need to do this to. I don't want to peal original paint off either.
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Jerry G. - Info on PCV as follows. This is all the writing on it I could find.
AC spark plug
type cv-746c
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Got it.....thanks a million for your help.
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All 5 Rally Wheels Version 4
All 5 Dated K18 5 3 DF
K = Kelsey Hayes
1 = Chevrolet
8 = Year of manufacturing
5 = Numeric Month of the Year
3 = Numeric Day of the Month
Friday May 3rd 1968
All 4 Center Caps # GW552504 2
X
3925805
All trim Rings = 4 clip attachment, Missing one Trim Ring - Anybody have an extra, take about any condition. Just want a complete set
Tires - Good Year Retreads - Bald
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next wheel ...
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next wheel ...
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last wheel ..
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Example of wheel stamp ... Danny
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Original Spiral Shocks
Front Shocks
Shocks Part # 3192477
Julian Dated 115 68
= Wednesday April 24th 1968
Rear Shocks
Part # 3192851
Julian Dated 128 68
= Tuesday May 7th 1968
... Danny
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very good stuff,sounds trivial ,but could you shoot a close up of a lug nut ? Need to check the outside , thanks. Seem to think I changed a couple years ago for some reason.
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Jano,
Not a problem, going to girlfriends garage tonight to pull the carb for rebuild. I will do it then.....Danny
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Here's one of my rims Danny...I'll shoot you number's off my Z for comparison if you want, let me know . When you get to your seat belts and carpet let me know--steve.
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Here is alt brackets with "GT" stamping. Oddly the black bracket is stamped beautiful and deep. The red bracket is only stamped with a "T". No G, at least any "G" that I could see. Was this common?? ... Danny
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Red Bracket ... Danny
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Red Bracket with only a "T"... Danny
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Was able to get a picture of the lower pulley while changing water pump. 3858533 BJ GM or is that a 5 ?? What does the BJ stand for ??... Danny
S
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Front of engine while cleaning and changing water pump... Yes, I see the wrong clamps on bypass and heater hose... Danny
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center of front engine... Danny
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Body Panel Numbers I have found.
Misc.. Stamped Body Panel Numbers
Hood Left Rear Edge – 20
Fenders – 20
Header Panel Top of Cowl – 20
Left Quarter Panel – H21
Underside of Deck Lid – T20
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Hi Danny and great find! What a girl friend! Just got back from vacation this morning and thanks for the email and kudos on my build thread, and yes, we now have Camaro relatives, huh! Great pictures and documentation so thank you! On the GT stamp, know I have not observed enough to have any idea if having the T only was common as many things could have been possible but we now know of one, yours. Hard to find examples like this with so much of the original content still there. I would tend to believe the PCV has been changed due to being a later design but maybe an expert will chime in. Again, great 68Z and congratulations.
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Jano, Here is a couple shots of the lugnut... Danny
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thanks , thread one has to check a few times a day....or your missing out :)
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Was able to get a picture of the lower pulley while changing water pump. 3858533 BJ GM or is that a 5 ?? What does the BJ stand for ??... Danny
S
I'm not sure what the BJ stands for, but most if not all pulley PN's have a 2 letter code after the PN...
Your crank pulley is correct for your Z28... .. complete pulley list From the CRG information.... :)
http://www.camaros.org/pdf/pulleys-68-2007-02-01.pdf
Z/28 (w/smog) Base N-40
Crank pulley 3858533 3858533
Crank pulley extension N/A 3916385
Water Pump pulley 3770245 3770245
Alternator pulley 1970831 1970831
Smog Pump pulley 3925522 3925522
Power Steering pulley N/A 3873847
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mine Dan
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CC last 2 digits on pump pulley
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"BJ" is the identification code of the pulley that was used on the assembly line. You showed an earlier picture of the real drums that had a "BU" sticker and the front springs had an "EE" sticker. Same thing.
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So then the "CC" on the water pump pulley is the same thing, and assembly line ID code... Got it.... Cool, and good to know...Danny
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Noyenko, I checked the clips you were talking about. I don't know if they are white or started out clear, but here is the run down..
The clip at the alt is white, The next clip at the left side fender is black, the clip at the voltage regulator is white, then the next 3 or 4 clips on the rad support all the way over to near the right inner fender are all black. Hope that helps... Danny
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I noticed the clutch grabs way at the top, can I adjust that down below? And if so, which way to you screw it, it has been 30 years since I did it on my mustang. Speaking of clutch adjustment, here is the adjustment rod with a code. Is that a "C" or a "O" ?? Also a picture of an inspection mark on the oil pan side, and radiator petcock with handle wings facing the correct direction.. .. Danny
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Oil pan in very nice condition with some factory paint drips and inspection mark on side... Danny
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Here is the protection plan booklet info laid out. What are the 2 and the 63 ??...I went online and found sites that mention this could be a combination of options code. Or just 2 separate codes. But nobody could answer for sure. Is it the am/fm with rear speaker ?? I think the "H" is Holley and so forth. Could someone decode all these numbers for me please.... Danny
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I noticed the clutch grabs way at the top, can I adjust that down below? And if so, which way to you screw it, it has been 30 years since I did it on my mustang.
Loosen the nut on the rod and then use a wrench to adjust the length. Less threads showing will give you a lower pedal release point (less engagement). More will give you a higher pedal release point (more engagement).
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E - black interior color
YY - Butternut
VIN
H = Holley
Engine Stamp
Rearend Stamp
The 6 just to the right of the rearend code stands for June of 68
Trans Stamp
2 - (J50)Power Assisted brakes
6 - (U69 & U80) AM&FM push button radio & rear deck speaker
3 - (J52) Disc Brakes (which the J50 was included in 68 &9)
Bowtie = Chevrolet
http://camaros.org/numbers.shtml#POPCodes (http://camaros.org/numbers.shtml#POPCodes)
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Rear end casting number for 12 bolt. Forgot to include it in above section... Danny
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Darrell, thank you for the decode. I just couldn't figure it out.
Pic's of Manifold, Fuel Pump
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manifold...
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Fuel Pump... What are all those numbers and the little heart?? ... Danny
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more pump..
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The number "7' on the bottom with a heart...Is this original and dated correctly for my car? ??
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Another view of front pad stamp.. Can somebody PLEASE tell me if all these stamps are original correct GM, including all the previous above. Do all the casting and dates line up correct?.. Danny
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I can't say for sure on the engine stamp due to the corrosion, but I think it is probably OK. Transmission and rear axle look good. I did not look at every other component, but LOTS of original stuff there.
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Oh and I think the casting dates looked fine too. You might want to try to summarize them and put them all into one post.
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Another view of front pad stamp.. Can somebody PLEASE tell me if all these stamps are original correct GM, including all the previous above. Do all the casting and dates line up correct?.. Danny
I think your dates, codes, stamps, etc.. are all outstanding Danny.... That's a VERY original car.. it just needs to be Preserved, and maintained... and use one of those discussed chemicals to remove the rust spots without removing the remaining paint.. :)
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Gary, Thanx... I just know this was a big investment for my girl. And I wanna make sure it is all ok. I spent a lot of time getting info before the purchase, but I am no expert, that's for sure.
Speaking of preserving... Here is a couple more paint work shots. LOT'S of elbow grease. And it is a fine line, you gotta pay attention while scrubbing. Going to use soaked paper towels with evaporust so I don't have to scrub THE WHOLE CAR! Just don't have the strength. Here is the top of the left fender complete and waxed with eagle one..... Danny
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couple more... What a difference eh...Danny
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Way cool. If I still lived in the bay area I would put in some time for you there. Take your time and and enjoy it brother... ;)
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Thanx, I appreciate that. There is just no way I can do it all by hand. Maybe, but it would take all thru winter.. :( :( And of course I am excited and want it done.
Here below is a picture of the front pad with letters and numbers filled with soap stone to better show if these are original correct GM font and style stampings... Danny
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That really works to show off the numbers. I know I did something similar a while back with plaster of paris, and that worked well also.
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Yes Jimmy, this is just soap stone. And then I lightly blow and take my finger and get rid of the excess. Then I edit the picture extensively of course to get that dark surface look. That really makes the numbers stand out.
OK, I am done for now, no more pictures... Danny
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Hey, I'm looking for the bolt that holds the choke to the manifold. Lost mine somewhere in the teardown. Do you know what size and thread, headmark etc? The AIM just says production bolt. Thanks.
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Wow! Car is looking good! Can't wait to see it when you get finished with the "paint" work. Keep it up ;D
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68Zproject... Here it is. But I can't find my pitch reader tools. I bet someone on here or TC will have one for you. Or at least tell ya the size...Hope this helps.. Danny
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I read somewhere that you HAVE to have something in the top of the smog pump, or it will keep pumping into the manifolds and this is NOT good. Some kind of valve? True? What goes in this hole? Can I buy one? Can I run the engine without the belt attached to the pump? ... Danny
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68Zproject... Here it is. But I can't find my pitch reader tools. I bet someone on here or TC will have one for you. Or at least tell ya the size...Hope this helps.. Danny
10-24 x 1/4".....read that somewhere, can't remember where.
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<< I read somewhere that you HAVE to have something in the top of the smog pump, or it will keep pumping into the manifolds and this is NOT good. Some kind of valve? True? What goes in this hole? Can I buy one? Can I run the engine without the belt attached to the pump? ... Danny >>
What goes in that hole is already there - it's a pressed-in pressure relief valve, to protect the pump in the unlikely event that the diverter valve sticks closed. The more common failure mode for the diverter valve is that it sticks open, pumping air into the manifold tubes all the time - that happens when the rubber diaphragm inside the diverter valve fails (and they all do eventually) and the valve then defaults by design to the open position, also causing a vacuum leak through the vacuum signal hose.
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What's missing is the Black Plastic insert that fits inside the center hole....it ID's the valve pressure setting. BTW....mine is missing also.....if you find a source let us all know.
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What's missing is the Black Plastic insert that fits inside the center hole....it ID's the valve pressure setting. BTW....mine is missing also.....if you find a source let us all know.
Just to make sure you know what I am referring to.....little black thing in middle of valve.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rD1Mn0kRBwU/SOLuLd1JWcI/AAAAAAAAEgY/G4ExkzeQzms/w821-h616-no/PA139880.JPG)
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JohnZ,
Can I pull the belt and run it without? I here guys talk about deveining. I guess that means to pull the guts out of the pump. I would rather not do that. What can I do or not do? Thanx... Danny
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JohnZ,
Can I pull the belt and run it without? I here guys talk about deveining. I guess that means to pull the guts out of the pump. I would rather not do that. What can I do or not do? Thanx... Danny
You can run it without the belt if you like.
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JohnZ sorry to bother ya all the time. But follow-up, so I pull the belt, great, NOW...can I ALSO then pull the vacuum line, or should I leave THAT connected? Will I have a vacuum leak if I leave it? ... Danny
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I put a BB in my vacuum line....Joe
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Great car and great pics.
All the #'s look good.
Frame stencil is the date: 5 31 68?
Carb is probably original.
What's the # on the pitman arm?
The two letter codes are the broadcast codes for the part - production shorthand for the part #. DF, MO, etc.
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Hey Kurt, thank you SO much for checking in... Just wanna make sure things are good. I thought I had the pitman arm pictures in here somewhere but maybe not. Here is what I have in my picture file.
What makes you think the carb is original? Is this the norm being dated 4 months away from most everything else on the car? You got many other documented '68 original cars with this early carb dating?
Danny
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That doesn't look close to any number I've seen on pitman arms for Z 2/8's..
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Hey Kurt, thank you SO much for checking in... Just wanna make sure things are good. I thought I had the pitman arm pictures in here somewhere but maybe not. Here is what I have in my picture file.
What makes you think the carb is original? Is this the norm being dated 4 months away from most everything else on the car? You got many other documented '68 original cars with this early carb dating?
Danny
I am not Kurt, but I thought I had posted a while back and said that I thought your carb was probably original but Kurt would have a better idea for sure. That big of a gap is not the norm, but you have so many other original components it would be hard for me to believe it is not original. Production on Z28s was ramping around that time the carb was assembled so it could have gotten shuffled back not used right away.
Let me check on the pitman arm.
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Pitman arm is correct. Fast ratio manual steering - length is 5.8 inches.
Lots of good steering information here from David Pozzi's site.
http://www.pozziracing.com/camaro_steering.htm
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For reference, my 10B Oct 68 build 69 Z/28 has a carb dated 872. I believe that is 2nd week of July 1968. So carb is 11-12 weeks ahead of assembly.
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My Z 2/8 pitman arm number - special steering, non-power steering was 3935075A - and as per Pozzi's site it looks like the number pictured is from a 1967 Z 2/8 Pitman Arm.. according to what I read there.
The cast numbers on the original Pitman on my '68 were confirmed as correct by many other Z 2/8 owners on this site that had the same numbers on their cars, when I was trying to ID it and find a replacement a year or more back
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For reference, my 10B Oct 68 build 69 Z/28 has a carb dated 872. I believe that is 2nd week of July 1968. So carb is 11-12 weeks ahead of assembly.
My mid September '69 Z28 carburetor is a 962.. also approx 12 weeks ahead of car production...
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I can't confirm the pitman arm, but I think it's correct. The 391 was used on 67 Z's too. I've seen the 075 on non-Z cars.
Where would someone find the correct carb for this, back then, only a couple of months early??
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Well here is THAT pitman arm # being talked about and offered for sale. All say replacement for 67 and 68 Camaro Z28. Even some of CRG guys old comments. I found it 20 times for sale all over used and new. And all say for Z28...?? Danny
Re: 67 Z-28 Steering Knuckle Part Number [Re: KNAPPY]
Zedder Offline
Pooh-Bah
I see it as 3908391 and the idler is 3908385.
1968RSZ28:
Chris -
Here's the information I have on the subject...
68 CAMARO w/ Spec. Steering (exc. 302, P/S) . . . . . . . . . . 3908389 (forged 3908391)
68 CAMARO w/ P/S, Spec. Steering (exc. 302),
68 CAMARO w/ P/S (302) (exc. Spec. Steering) . . . . . . . . . . 3908379
68 CAMARO (exc. P/S, Spec. Steering) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3917575
68-69 CAMARO w/ P/S . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3935711
Here is one for sale for $375 right now on TC
ORIGINAL GM# 3908391 1967-68 Camaro Z/28 special fast-ratio 5-3/4" manual steering pitman arm. This arm is for manual steering cars.
Degreased and tumbled to a 100% assembly line correct finish. Ready to install.
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Well I was trying to get the carb tuned and just could not make it happen. So I gave it to a friend for a rebuild. Here is what he found. Apparently this is some kind of flat track power valve mod. You can buy them from Holley, but this one is hand modified and machined. Nice ... If all you want to do is hold the throttle to the floor around a circle track >:( P. S. more of those close up pictures ya 'all like. Remember it's not the camera, it's who's behind it that counts.
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Danny, that is a power valve plug. It is used for competition where WOT is usually the norm. When the plug is used you must richen the mixture several jet sizes to compensate for a lean mixture. You may have to replace jets to return to the correct size. Hope this helps.
Jim
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Jim, yes, that's what I was saying, some old trick for full throttle. I assume it was re-jetted during the rebuild. The guy that built it that's all he did for years is these flat track carbs. Probably over 100 of them. So he MUST know about the jetting. I have only started it for a minute to check for leaks. Front caliper is leaking internally... dang it. I was going to take it for a real drive today. Instead I gotta drive down to San Bruno to Steves Camaro and see if he can warranty this one out... >:( >:(
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Awesome man. Steve Pardini is a great guy to have on your side. I wish I was in the bay area to pay him a visit. He should take care of you if it was purchased through him.
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What is the exact date code on the carb? You said January, but I did not see an actual picture of that or the date code listed.
I will ask Jerry on the pitman arm.
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Well I headed down to Steve's Camaros today. He warranted the caliper and threw in a set of pads. Yes he is a great guy. He is closed on the weekends, but I called his cell and he opened up for me. Scored some nice original '68 parts. Like an original water pump bypass hose, rigid pump to carb fuel line, and some other misc. goodies. I get to walk all over the place upstairs and down and look for stuff. Found original Corvette trim rings in the box. Original diamond mesh air cleaners in the GM boxes, on and on, just a treasure trove of goodies. Went next door to see his cars. He has an all original Hugger '69 Z/28 that he bought back in the 80's. And a nice original black car '68 Z/28 with Cowl Plenum. Also bought in the 80's for just a few thousand! 8) 8) Then he took me to lunch down the street. Good times, nice visit.
On a bummer note, I went back and installed the Caliper and bled it off. Threw the wheel back on and lowered it down. Installed the new fuel pump I got from Heartbeat city. And fired it up to go for a drive and the carb is messed up. Just a touch of throttle and it just keeps climbing up all by itself like it is being giv'in more throttle. But I just was holding it at like an 1/8th of an inch of throttle from outside. Then it takes a long time for it to come back down. You know, instead of racking it and having it come right back down, it goes up... then takes a long time to come back to idle. What the hell is that? I remember it happening to me in high school, but don't remember what it was. I just wanna go for a real ride, instead of the super scary 2 mile ride home the day I got the car off the truck. Couple close-ups of the bypass hose. Nice and close. Oh, and sounded a little arrogant with my last post about taking pictures. I was just quoting Ansel Adams :)... Danny
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bcmiller here is a shot of the carb numbers. And thank you for checking with Jerry on the pitman arm. I have found it several more places since my post, so I am hoping it is fine, and all those one's for sale are correct with there info.... Danny
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One week off from the one I have.
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My 02E has that same pitman arm & has a steering gear date of A0328......Joe
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Assuming no bind in throttle pedal or linkage. Return spring stiff and pulling plates (and keeping) them shut.
You had the carb apart. was it rebuilt ? Metering blocks, base plate, body checked for warping ? ( machinist straight edge)
Pull off the air cleaner, have your girlfriend start the car....you operate the throttle and see what it does. Watch the squirters ,at idle, and see if it's getting a signal to pull fuel. Should not at idle. Different circuit. Check your float level ( fuel should slightly weep out the sight holes) Consider upgrading to Holley Viton needle and seats if they have not been recently replaced. Hard to trouble shoot online,,,,,does the car seem to be running rich at idle, exhaust burning your eyes ?
Holley has a great website, take a look :)---steve
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Danny, you might pull the vacuum advance hose off the distributor to see if the advance plate is sticking. George
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Danny, you might want to make sure there is no air leaks around the base of the carb and that the base plate did not crack when reinstalled.
TMR,,
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My friend rebuilt the carb. He did JUST that for years for a living. So I ASSUME he knows what he is doing. That's how we found the wide open flat track plug in above post. I knew it was going to be hard to explain. I was just hoping somebody had that same problem in the past. There is no binding, have double springs... I did notice at one time fuel was trickling in on the left side at an idle. Then I revved it up and that went away. And didn't come back. All I can say is standing next to the car and reaching in and pulling the throttle back JUST A TOUCH... It goes up, but then begins to climb up on it's own. And I am talking 2 or 3 THOUSAND RPM's. Not just a little. Then I pull it back and it takes 5 seconds to go back to an idle. I also noticed that when it comes back, each time I have to adjust the idle screw. Cause it wants to die, OR it is up to high. Never goes back to the nice 900 idle. There is no longer white smoke coming from the exhaust, and the exhaust does not burn when standing in back of car close and bent down.That was fuel dumping in from that plug being installed. Probably didn't have to change the fuel pump, but that's ok, better to start out fresh. Got an all original rebuilt with the embossed AC logo. Advance plate not sticking cause I checked it and it runs back and forth freely. I retightened the carb down delicately with a 1/4 inch drive mini ratchet holding it in the palm of my hand. Making sure not to over tighten. It should be fine and plenty tight enough.
I think I may have to just get another carb for now. Cause I WANNA drive it. Then send mine out at a later date. There is a Holley 4053, 3923289 brand new in the box online for $640 with free shipping. Is this ok to run and get me down the road for the summer? Not showing the car. Thanx everyone for the help so far.. Here it is... Danny
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330548530059?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
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I am sure your friend knows what he is doing with carbs.
For the symptoms you liist, it sure seems like it is either the carb or something sticking in the distributor.
Personally, I think you can find a nice carb for less than that.
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I am sure your friend knows what he is doing with carbs.
For the symptoms you liist, it sure seems like it is either the carb or something sticking in the distributor.
Personally, I think you can find a nice carb for less than that.
I think Danny had the original carburetor for his car; just needs to be rebuilt to 'stock form'.. which would be cheaper than $640, OR he could buy a new 3310 for much less than that which would be fine on his engine *to drive*...
and.. aren't there some folks who can rebuild his original carb for MUCH LESS ($200?) and do it within a week or two?
Gary
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I was looking at that carb cause I thought I had to have THAT one. What's a 3310? Will everything line up and all the fuel connections, linkage and vacuum lines connect properly. I DO NOT want to do ANY mods. Just wanna throw it on and go... As far as sending out my original, I honestly don't wanna wait 15 or 20 days to get it back. Danny
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Good advice from NOYENKO also....if the timing is wandering, or "sticking" at full advance, your engine will run erratic. Like he posted, very easy to remove from the equation. BTY, CHP was very fair on the price when I had my distributor gone through last year. Plus certification ;D
Heed Gary's advice on carb replacement or rebuild. Food for thought, while your carbs getting refurbished, whatever, you do not need a high dollar carb to feed that 302. Sounds like you are just out to cruise. Don't think any no lift 7800 shifts in your car's future. Check Summit, they carry refurbished Holleys and Edelbrocks. (street avenger ?) You would be surprised the overall performance a 600 Edelbrock does atop that engine...just to tie you over.
Also check out Crane Corvette if you are pretty set on another 780 ,look to have a good rep and descent prices, see what they say.
I cannot see putting out $700 for another carb, when you own the born with...new base plate, metering blocks, neoprene gaskets, blow out protection, needles and seats etc,,would come in half that...
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Oh-to answer your other question, The mentioned carbs come with necessary vacuum ports. But,,,isolate your problem 1st before throwing $$$ at it.
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I was looking at that carb cause I thought I had to have THAT one. What's a 3310? Will everything line up and all the fuel connections, linkage and vacuum lines connect properly. I DO NOT want to do ANY mods. Just wanna throw it on and go... As far as sending out my original, I honestly don't wanna wait 15 or 20 days to get it back. Danny
the Holley 3310 is Holley's generic OTC 4150 (780 cfm), and is the carb that is probably only half or more of the Z28 clones, and probably over the years has been on more than half of the real Z28's at one time or another. I think everything will hook up correctly without any mods Danny..
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Gary is right. A good original 3310 or 3310-1 will work fine and is 780 cfm (2 metering blocks). I believe the later versiions (3310-2, 3310-3 etc) are rated at 750 cfm but they will work fine too.
For your needs you just need something 750 cfm or so that is a vacuum secondary carb.
BUT, I would just try to get what you currently have working. What did he do when he rebuilt your carb? Standard rebuild? Did it run OK on another engine?
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Not trying to make you run in circles, but take a good look at the distributor weights. With the carb modification he may have put light springs and heavy weights in there. It was a common thing to do.
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As far as sending out my original, I honestly don't wanna wait 15 or 20 days to get it back. Danny
Don't be so anxious. Just wait a little and have your original rebuilt. I think you'll be happier in the end. Check with Jerry MacNeish.
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MO,
I here ya, but I can't help it. I wanna drive it. I have spent SO much time with everything I need a payoff. And my health isn't the best. It's SO close now.
So my girlfriend ordered the NEW Holley 0-4053 3923289 today. I will make payments to her when I get caught up. It will be here Wed. morning. I needed something anyway. Now I can send mine out at my leisure and have no down time. 3 days is better than 3 weeks. ;D
Jerry should be heading back from Reno, as he is up there for the Barrett Jackson Hot August nights. Maybe I can connect with him soon.
I disconnected the vacuum line from the smog pump and plugged it, no change. I did the same with the dist. line, no change. It still does the same thing. The rebuild guy is coming over tom at 10am to check it out. We will see what he can find. Plus I wanna learn after the diagnoses. I had 2 springs on the return and thought maybe that was causing it to pull to the side hard and bind. Like the old Auto Lite Carbs would do. So I pulled the extra one and left the original, no change. It's gotta be inside the carb. When you turn the idle adjust screw just a little to much, it climbs up to 2 or 3 thousand RPMs by itself. Something's gotta be wrong. Stay tuned ... Danny
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Well the carb rebuild guy just left. He checked it with a Vacuum gauge and sent me down to get 2.5 power valves instead of the 6.5 that are in there. So I don't know what that means, but hopefully it will work, I gotta pull the carb AGAIN, and get everything over to him. Then he said he would help me tune it and dial it in after reinstall. Stay tuned... No pun intended ;D ... Danny
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Did you happen to see what kind of vacuum your engine was pulling at idle? You typically size a power valve at 1/2 your engine vacuum at idle. With a 6.5 valve your pulling around 13" of vacuum at an idle. So with a 2.5 you would only be around 5" of vacuum at idle. At light cruising and idle, the power valve is closed because your vacuum is above the power valve rating. It doesn't open until WOT or when your vacuum drops below the valves rating and then allows fuel to flow through the power valve channel restrictor enriching your fuel mixture. They are basically a vacuum operated on and off switch for fuel. So with a 2.5" valve its not going to open until you drop below 2.5" of vacuum. Remember, an engine makes its most vacuum at idle and at WOT throttle its least amount of vacuum.
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Going by memory but I think the 6.5 power valve is correct for that carb. Not sure why he would want to make the changes he told you.
It is not easy to diagnose a problem like this remotely, but I suspect a vacuum leak somewhere. Possibly where the intake seals onto the heads or block.
Did you check for a vacuum leak?
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Well I have to say I did look for a vacuum leak, but couldn't find any. Here is what the gasket looked like when I pulled the carb today. Is this ok? I don't remember any bleed thru like this before. I am not sure why he wanted to put the 2.5's in... I didn't see the vacuum gauge, I think he said 4.5. I just want it right or close to it for the money I spent on the rebuild. If it doesn't work when I get it back tom, going to cut my loses for now and just install the new carb. I wanna go to some car shows in the coming days and weeks. Danny
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not related to the carb problem but another thing to check on unrestored cars........
the distributor mechanical advance has a rubber bump stop that can dry out and crumble off leaving
a smaller diameter steel pin. This can change your timing and advance by a large amount
many people installed aftermarket advance kits that came with weights, springs, and a bronze bushing, so if your car has that it should
be OK but if it still has the rubber bushing you may want to check it.
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I think I might have figured out my problem. The only thing I have not done is adjust the vales. Valves out of adjustment? Would that cause the 4.5 Vacuum reading instead of 12 or 14? Going to plug the vacuum line for the brake booster. Maybe it's leaking inside the cannister?.. Danny
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Yes it can.
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I don't know if the valves being off would cause that issue or not. I am not saying it would or it wouldn't. But I think they would have to be off quite a bit to cause that problem.
How did you check for vacuum leaks?
The old school way to check for vacuum leaks it to use an unlit propane torch or carb cleaner. But this can be dangerous. I am not telling you to do this. But if you want to know, here is how it is done. Again, if you do this, be CAREFUL.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/maintenance/how-to-find-a-vacuum-leak-2
I prefer the torch method, outside of course.
If all the vacuum hoses are original, it might be a good idea to just go ahead replace them. Of course keep the originals.
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Well the new carb came. I installed it and heated the engine up to operating temp. I think I may have had/have 2 issues. Cause after I set the Fuel/air mixture with the vacuum gauge the vacuum went up to 12 to 14. However it still wants to climb up by itself at an idle with very little throttle. You give it a little and it winds up by itself. Takes the vacuum gauge down to zero, then races up to 45. I pulled the booster hose and plugged the manifold port and it made no diff. So canister in booster is not leaking. I took it for a ride and it actually runs good, pulls like hell. But I have to leave it in gear and apply the brake to help bring down the idle. Once it is down at the stop sign, it is fine. And off ya go, come to another stop sign and it rides back up. Temp at top of radiator hose near thermostat neck read 164. Temp at bottom rad hose near water pump neck read 172. This is after a 5 mile drive. There is SO many things it could be. The throttle spring is pulling ALL the way back.
#1 - Valve overlap
#2 - Gases passing by the rings
#3 - Sticky Valve
#4 - Burned valve
#5 - Poorly seated valves
#6 - Valve guides worn
#7 - Weak valve spring
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#8 - Late valve timing or manifold leak
#9 - Spark plug gap
#10 - Faulty points
#11 - Ignition retarded
#12 - Manifold leaking.. I sprayed carb cleaner all around it the best I could and I could not detect any rpm changes.
#13 - Partially clogged exhaust
It's endless... Danny
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start with the easy/cheap stuff like spark plug gap, points, condenser ( you want to probably put new ones of those anyways) and then go from there. I purchased an older car about a year ago and had similar issues with vacuum. (Did a Compression test, and it was fine). It was not one single issue, but every time I replaced a part, say points for instance it ran better. I replaced the plugs, better still. Carb gasket, a bit better. I was an eagle eye with that vacuum gauge, some small piece would bump up my vacuum, and/or make it run that much smoother. I think the car hadn't run in years. While it was frustrating not having the easy fix, it was a fun journey seeing it come alive more and more with each small fix. Good luck, and keep us posted.. :)
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Outside a general tune up ,which is always a plus ,heed the advise from some previous posts and focus on your distributor. Sounds like it may be staying at full advance. Do you own a hand vacuum pump ? (Miti-Vac ?)
1. Disconnect your vacuum line ,plug source, and hook up pump to your distributor.
2. start engine, obtain initial timing.
3.Give a few pumps to full advance. 3 gr. on TAC ? Engine will speed up (good old timing tape on the harmonic balancer a plus here ! Mr Gasket--cheap)You can obtain a reading to see where you are at for full advance. A must to properly set up your curve. ***see weights/springs (previous post)
4. Release pressure on the pump ,does your engine idle back down ?
Something also to be said for adjustable timing lights here.
As far as checking for vacuum leaks: plain old spray bottle with water. I fight fires for a living.
Any issues with your distributor ,just send it out... labor was very fair ,goes through the tumbler ,set up on the good old SUN machine.
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If the cam is a wild grind and vacuum is low, try cracking secondary throttle plates open a little. This is done by removing carb, flipping over and a small screw on bottom by plate on pass side below Vac. diaphram. this allows a little more air flow and allows primary plates to be closed more. If primary plates are opened too far, it uncovers idle bleeds causing poor or no idle circuit to work.
I'd also go back to checking with timing light to see if advance weights are opening too soon as mentioned in earlier post (too lighty spring). If vacuum guage is steady, not ticking back and forth, this would rule out valve train IE sticking valve,burnt, spring broken etc...Exhaust clogged is checked by holding at, say 3000rpm with Vac guage and see if it starts to drop after a minute or two. My 2 cents.
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Ko-lek-tor is correct, check Holley Tech, actually a gap measurement posted. I do not know it off hand. If he's got the old 30-30 in it ,it's choppy but not overly aggressive. Brakes were fine without an added vacuum reserve tank. Plus the tuning specs for that Z motor has long been in print
Not saying to go do it, but I ran a far more radical cam and had the best luck drilling a small hole in each of the primary throttle plates....per Holley. Never could adjust them open enough to not take out the idle circuit. World of difference. Experimented with accelerator pump cams. (duration) Ended up with a surprisingly crisp ,off idle set up. Must for the street. This was on a 850 double pump.
If I was a betting man, I'd say his problems are in the 46 yo. distributor ....certainly was not a mistake having that old carb gone through also.
Be patient Danny ,your not going to jump in a TEN year old car ,not knowing maintenance history, and honestly expect to have no issues. Also consider it presents as having little attention over the years. All in all ,relatively minor issues, as to be expected with theses old rides...half the fun of owning one.
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Not the same thing, but years ago I had an erratic/idle vacuum issue with my 302 and spent a lot of time playing with the carburetor until I finally check out the engine's compression and spark plugs. What I really had was ring failure in one cylinder, and needed a rebuild. Might want to verify that your engine's compression is good? How do the plugs looks?
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One thing that you may want to double check is that all of the intake bolts are tight. Do not over tighten them or break them off - but make sure they are good and snug. Can't tell you how many times that has been an issue on engines I have worked on.
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First things first. Lets not make this anymore complicated than it needs to be and get back to the basics.
Place your hand & or rag over the opening of the carb while it is idling. Does it idle up or load up and die?
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Well I will get to my latest news when I get a chance, and thanx to all for the help thus far, will need more help I am sure.
Thought I would share a few more pictures. Smog hose clamps, Pump pulley.
And these stampings on the front of each head. Anybody know what they mean? Looks like on the right is a "6", and on the left is a "0" ... Danny
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more
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more
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more
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Right head front stamp
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left head front stamp, maybe a "C", or an incomplete zero? ... Danny
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Danny, what part of the head are you finding those stamps? (the '0' and the '6')?? Can you take another photo or two with a wider field to show where they are?
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more
Interesting pulley! Everyone says that the Z28 should have a deep groove pulley (#3925522) on the smog pump and most of them do. My 06-19 engine did not have the deep groove pulley....it had the standard groove pulley (#3927116) just like your showing on your engine. I have never been able to find out exactly why that happened. Kurt, the site coordinator, said that he has seen this happen before but he didn't know why either. So, to be correct, I finally found an original #3925522 pulley and purchased it. If you are interested, there is one currently listed on eBay for a fairly decent price. Here is the link.....http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-1968-72-BIG-BLOCK-CHEVY-bbc-CORVETTE-427-454-SMOG-PUMP-PULLEY-3925522-/271538620175?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f38f6870f&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-1968-72-BIG-BLOCK-CHEVY-bbc-CORVETTE-427-454-SMOG-PUMP-PULLEY-3925522-/271538620175?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f38f6870f&vxp=mtr)
BTW....my original heads also have that single digit number on the ends. Own mine, it is stamped so light that it is hard to make out....so I can't tell exactly what it is.
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Thanks for posting that Jerry.
Yes that smog pulley is interesting. So we know of at least two cars now that had it. Hmmmm....
BTW, Jerry have you ever seen any late 68 Z28 engines that used the 186 heads rather than the 291s?
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Ok, let me try to answer some questions
I sprayed carb cleaner around the base of the intake. I really couldn't tell if there was a rise in the idle. I remember doing that years ago and having the idle increase. Didn't happen, if it did it was so subtle. Will try water...
I already had tightened the intake bolts a few days ago. The middle 4 were some what loose. And turned 3/4 of a turn easily. Rest were tight and didn't budge.
I have that miti-vac hand pump. I used it to help bleed the brakes. I will try the distributor advance. But I think patience is more in order and I am going to send it to JM. I just found out that the 532 point plate is NOT in the dist. I thought I was told it was, my fault. So def. need to have it put back stock. Anybody have an extra point plate before I send it away??
Motor never apart as far as I can tell. Should still have the 30/30 Duntov. So no crazy grind.
I have not pulled the plugs in a while. I am going to install another set in the coming days.
Compression was a LITTLE all over the map from 155 to 180. Only ONE cylinder had 180, rest were 172 etc. etc.
Will do the clean rag over carb trick again. Last time I did it when all this first started, as I mentioned in a previous post, it died with-in a half to one second! Just RIGHT NOW died. Witch led me to believe there was no Vac leak.
Didn't know about the smog pump pulley thing. I sure can't spend $400 on a pulley. I would bet my left testy that this is the one that was on the car when it left the factory. 56 thousand original miles, who would pull it and change it, and why?
Gary - Here is the pictures showing location of front head stamps. I shot the pic's starting from a ways back and then closer.
Also the left shock tower cap still in place. Checked the tapper etc. against Chick's close-up posted picture of his original and an aftermarket. Look like mine is original.
Right side front - head stamp
Danny
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Left Side front head stamp
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Left side shock tower cap in trunk..
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not related to the carb problem but another thing to check on unrestored cars........
the distributor mechanical advance has a rubber bump stop that can dry out and crumble off leaving
a smaller diameter steel pin. This can change your timing and advance by a large amount
many people installed aftermarket advance kits that came with weights, springs, and a bronze bushing, so if your car has that it should
be OK but if it still has the rubber bushing you may want to check it.
I just happened to buy a February '68 issue of Super Street Cars magazine at the swap meet over the weekend and it had an article in it called " How to rework your distributor for max performance ". It has some good tips and it also has a good pic of the rubber piece that Joe was talking about.
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/SSC1_zpsf6ddfcbb.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/SSC1_zpsf6ddfcbb.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/SSC2_zpsfa515777.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/SSC2_zpsfa515777.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/SSC3_zps9b7f04d3.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/SSC3_zps9b7f04d3.jpg.html)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/SSC4_zps3ecd4922.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/SSC4_zps3ecd4922.jpg.html)
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Hey Jon, thanx very much for that info. It's a lot to take in, especially for a backyard mechanic such as myself. Seen that rubber piece you were talking about, pretty cool. I never knew it was there until I heard it mentioned in one of the replies.
Going to adjust the Valves Sunday. Then pull the Distributor and send off for rebuild. Wish I could also send the Alternator, Master Cylinder, Calipers and a few other goodies.... But that takes $$$ :( Then will change the oil and the spark plugs again. When Dist. comes back I can drop it back in and start my trouble shooting issue back up.
In the mean time, found this tag on the car. It was stuck on and seems original. Can you guess where on the car it was located???... Danny
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You probably already know ,just a reminder. When you pull your distributor make sure #1 cylinder on TDC: I/E rockers should be "loose" as both valves are closed, pull your dist cap, rotor should be pointing to, or real close to #1 cylinder. Dis connect your battery :D This way everything will already be set for you when you are ready to reinstall.
If you do roll the engine over, or already pulled it...the above is what you want to check before installation.
"putting it in the way it came out" works....if no crank rotation and you know rotor alignment. I've always taken the few minutes to align as above ,and never installed one 180 out.--steve
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Hey Jon, thanx very much for that info. It's a lot to take in, especially for a backyard mechanic such as myself. Seen that rubber piece you were talking about, pretty cool. I never knew it was there until I heard it mentioned in one of the replies.
Going to adjust the Valves Sunday. Then pull the Distributor and send off for rebuild. Wish I could also send the Alternator, Master Cylinder, Calipers and a few other goodies.... But that takes $$$ :( Then will change the oil and the spark plugs again. When Dist. comes back I can drop it back in and start my trouble shooting issue back up.
In the mean time, found this tag on the car. It was stuck on and seems original. Can you guess where on the car it was located???... Danny
Forward lamp harness.
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Jano,
No I didn't know that. I remember some of that info from years past, but thanx much for reminder.
90 degrees out here in Northern CA and too hot right now to fire it and heat it up for valve adjustment. So gonna wait for 74 degree day. Or there about...
As for the 5054 tag, we have a winner!! Pictures below show the tag in place.
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Again
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Here is the tag stretched out. Made of what looks to be thin clear plastic. Glad it wasn't paper, cause that would have been gone. Danny
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Danny, Just read thru your 68 Z find. Sweeeeeeet deal ! Butternut, very cool... awesome job !
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69 Zee,
Thanx man.. You can have it for 40K!!.... As you know it is SO much fun. I really like searching out numbers, as I am an original numbers matching guy. I am not a hot rod guy, or a rat rod guy. I appreciate the talent. But I don't want a John Deere Tractor part in my interior.
Funny I just finished reading your score... Super cool... a little more work than mine, but you will love it. If you start to get stressed, walk away and come back another day. Good luck... Danny
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YEA!!! JUST scored a 3959 "326" Water Pump for the Z/28. Wow these babies are scarce and pricey for sure... Contacted Bill Mock and he got right back to me the next day. Bought a fully rebuilt ready to mount dated E 3 8 with the 1/2" FIP hole in the top. My engine assembly is 5 23 8. So 20 days prior. Now almost everything is matched from top to bottom except hoses, belts, battery and cables, tune-up items and tires.... Danny
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You had good luck on your water pump....quick results. I was looking for three years on eBay and finally found one this year for my car. Scored one that was in excellent condition and only needed a rebuild. My pump had a cast date of E-1-8 which closely matched the casting dates on my block and heads but my engine build date was 6-19.
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Hey,
Yes I did get lucky. I have heard all the horror stories. Sucker cost me ALOT!! But Mr. Bill Mock has been doing this for corvette and Camaro guys since 1978. He has about 425 pumps. And keeps a rebuilt of each style and month ready to go. So he called me the very next morning and it will be here in a few days... Danny
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HELP.. I pulled my distributor cap last night and wanted to rotate the engine to number one, get it ready for the dist. to drop back in. Brought it to TDC and the rotor was facing right at the center of the right hood hinge. So I thought, well, I need to go around, so I went around again and the rotor ended up right in the corner of left inner fender and cowl. What's the deal, what am I doing wrong? Is it because I needed to only go 180 degrees instead of a full 360? I pulled it out and will worry about it later. The rubber advance limiter bumper was gone! Just as you guys said it probably was. The shaft is very tight in it's hole with no movement side to side. BUT the shaft moves up and down 3/8th's of an inch or more.. Yikes!! The 532 point plate WAS there after all. Previous owner said it might have been changed. So that's a plus. Taking it to a speed shop in San Fran for a set-up. Hoping to have the Master, Dist., Alt all rebuilt internally ONLY. No outside restoration. That way I can keep the survivor visual. Then along with the new WP, throw it all back on in a month or two and see what I got... Danny
P.S.
Which way do I turn the center crank pulley bolt for removal. Is it standard thread? The old righty tighty, lefty lucy?
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Which way do I turn the center crank pulley bolt for removal. Is it standard thread? The old righty tighty, lefty lucy?
Correct. And it's "righty tighty lefty loosy", Ricky!
Paul
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Paul, you crack me up :D
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Lefty "loosey"
Not going to write a lot about it because it may only confuse you.
How are you checking TDC ? Both valves (I/E) closed? While you are into it.....pick up some Miister Gasket timing tape for your balancer...trust me on this. Also ,I believe John Z has an article on finding if your "pointer" (on timing cover) is off in relation to the line on your balancer. You may find it to be a few degrees off.
May be as simple as when they,at one time,pulled the distributor they just set it back in the easiest way it would drop in.And rerouted the plug wires to compensate on the cap.
Also when you put it back in,give the gear up a good coating of assembly lube.
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Also ,I believe John Z has an article on finding if your "pointer" (on timing cover) is off in relation to the line on your balancer. You may find it to be a few degrees off.
May be as simple as when they,at one time,pulled the distributor they just set it back in the easiest way it would drop in.And rerouted the plug wires to compensate on the cap.
Lars Grimsrud also has some short reference papers on checking your balancer marks, finding TDC, and installing a distributor so it is in the correct factory position.
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HELP.. I pulled my distributor cap last night and wanted to rotate the engine to number one, get it ready for the dist. to drop back in. Brought it to TDC and the rotor was facing right at the center of the right hood hinge. So I thought, well, I need to go around, so I went around again and the rotor ended up right in the corner of left inner fender and cowl. What's the deal, what am I doing wrong? Is it because I needed to only go 180 degrees instead of a full 360? I pulled it out and will worry about it later. The rubber advance limiter bumper was gone! Just as you guys said it probably was. The shaft is very tight in it's hole with no movement side to side. BUT the shaft moves up and down 3/8th's of an inch or more.. Yikes!! The 532 point plate WAS there after all. Previous owner said it might have been changed. So that's a plus. Taking it to a speed shop in San Fran for a set-up. Hoping to have the Master, Dist., Alt all rebuilt internally ONLY. No outside restoration. That way I can keep the survivor visual. Then along with the new WP, throw it all back on in a month or two and see what I got... Danny
P.S.
Which way do I turn the center crank pulley bolt for removal. Is it standard thread? The old righty tighty, lefty lucy?
Danny, sometimes when dropping the distributor back in the hole the oil pump shaft needs to be aligned so it drops in correctly. Check the bottom of the distributor on how you want to align it and see how the gear will match the oil pump shafts slot. Many times a long screwdriver is needed for slight adjustments for alignment and full drop in. Not sure what you have but that might be the issue.
Love that butternut 68 Z/28.....
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Also ,I believe John Z has an article on finding if your "pointer" (on timing cover) is off in relation to the line on your balancer. You may find it to be a few degrees off.
May be as simple as when they,at one time,pulled the distributor they just set it back in the easiest way it would drop in.And rerouted the plug wires to compensate on the cap.
Lars Grimsrud also has some short reference papers on checking your balancer marks, finding TDC, and installing a distributor so it is in the correct factory position.
Would be good reading. Forgot to mention the shaft, Chick caught it. Turns very easy.
Just post when you get ready to install it--steve
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Too Funny, of course it's not a woman's name. Guess I was tired. I got some splaining to do...
I was checking TDC by lining the line in the balancer with the "0" mark on the timing cover. Isn't that it? I remember taking a long screwdriver and moving the oil pump shaft to line up for dist. drop in many years ago.
I dropped off my dist. for rebuild, and the guy wants to re-curve it. For better off line power. Should I say yes? Does it work well? Does it ruin the value of the unit?... Danny
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I had a feeling the rubber bumper would be gone
ask the speed shop what he wants to do before he does it
be sure to get all your original parts back from the speed shop
he may change the springs and weights and add the brass stop
you don't need to install the timming tape on the balancer , you can just mark the balancer at 38 degrees or whatever you want to set your total timming at
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Danny;
Nice butternut 68 Z/28...
Yes you want a re-curve, so do that he should know 302 curves.
My curve is 1100 to all in at 2800 rpm. He should be limiting the slot for 12 degrees at the distributor or 24 degrees mechanical advance.
You want something along those lines.
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Danny what others have mentioned is get your #1 piston at TDC, checked thru spark plug hole, then verify timing pointer and balancer mark is at TDC. The balancers have been known to slip. When reinstalling a original distributor on an original manifold the factory stamped a chisel mark on the back after they adjusted it. I have allways found the timing to be within 2-3 degrees of the recommended setting. George
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I was checking TDC by lining the line in the balancer with the "0" mark on the timing cover. Isn't that it? Danny
Danny, The advice given to checking TDC referred to checking TRUE TDC as the mark on timing cover may be off for various reasons. True TDC is checked with a dial indicator. The indicator plunger is set on the top surface of #1 piston at or near the top of the bore. rotate (slowly) until highest reading on guage is determined. Stop at this point and then you can see if the line on the balancer lines up with T.cover. There is a positive stop method also that involves some calculations to arrive at TDC.(gets a little wordy to explain). Can True TDC be determined without pulling the head? Yes. You will need a long plunger to reach through spark plug hole. I have also taken spring off intake valve (make sure piston is close to TDC so valve does not fall down in cyl.). Gentley tap on top of stem to seat valve on piston (in case of carbon fluff) and set indicator plunger on top of valve stem. I am not too fond of unseating keepers and prefer the s. p. hole method. The positive stop is similar and involves inserting something in s.p. hole that prevents piston from reaching TDC. The crank is turned both directions and noted where the engine stops (locks up due to interference). If degree wheel or timing tape is not available, merely use the straight top edge of timing tab and make a line across balancer in each direction. determine mid-point between these 2 lines and mark it. Line it up with top edge you used to make other 2 marks and compare balancer TDC mark with t. tab mark. Make adjustments to insure TDC marks line up as needed but do not move crank position. This may involve bumping timing tab side to side with a small Ford tool (hammer) or repainting a correct line (thin and accurate please). If all else fails...fly me out there and in 15 minutes we will be done.
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WELL... I think I am going to buy a dial indicator. Be nice to have, and seems the correct way. In high school I stuck a stick down there and slowly turned the crank until I though it pushed out the farthest. TOO funny!
Then I will take my dremel tool and make a baby line nice and clean and straight.
I like the idea of the tape so I can mark it all the way around in several places. But what is the best advance for regular street driving. 32, 35, 36, 38??? I keep getting different numbers suggested.
So ok, I will have the distributor re-curved. He has done 302 units before. Did my friends 302 unit and he says it runs great. And to save all old parts.
Having the alternator rebuilt at the same place. Internally only. So as to keep the survivor visual.
Appreciate it guys. Will update soon hopefully... Danny
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... in a previous post.... it was written....
"This may involve bumping timing tab side to side with a small Ford tool (hammer)..."..
Bentley.. you are cracking me up!! :)
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Danny....not distributor related but could you take a few photos of the front spoiler. Always looking for an original 1st, design spoiler. Hard to find photos of them....most have been replaced by the larger service replacement. Thanks in advance for your trouble.
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I know you guys have nice tools but I have used this method for years and it works. Remove # 1 plug. Stick your finger in the hole and have someone bump the engine. When the compression blows past your finger line up the rotor with # 1 wire on the cap. set the vac advance midway travel and fire it up. Then adjust timing. Try it, it works.
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WELL... I think I am going to buy a dial indicator. Be nice to have, and seems the correct way. In high school I stuck a stick down there and slowly turned the crank until I though it pushed out the farthest. TOO funny!
Then I will take my dremel tool and make a baby line nice and clean and straight.
I like the idea of the tape so I can mark it all the way around in several places. But what is the best advance for regular street driving. 32, 35, 36, 38??? I keep getting different numbers suggested.
So ok, I will have the distributor re-curved. He has done 302 units before. Did my friends 302 unit and he says it runs great. And to save all old parts.
Having the alternator rebuilt at the same place. Internally only. So as to keep the survivor visual.
Appreciate it guys. Will update soon hopefully... Danny
Kelly King is correct (actually nobody who posted is wrong !) Once the piston is up....use your stick (a pencil is cleaner LOL) and rotate the crank CW/CCW just a little and leave it at the highest. Rockers should be loose. Dial indicator... well I just love tools so no foul there.
Somebody else brought up about your balancer being off (inertia ring may be going ) Correct, have it checked out at the speed shop. I had one go bad on a 400,and one higher dollar after market show out of spec on the dyno. happens.
Reference marks are great to go by if it was never pulled ,or you marked it. Shaft may now be off in relation to the body. None the less great advise. Because...
1. your at TDC (pencil at it's highest !)
2. rotor points to #1 cylinder and #1 post on the cap
3. Alignment marks check out. Properly reinstalled. period.
Total advance? what are you guys in Cali running?? From the mild 302 to the wild 413 (throw in a few 327's) they all seemed to like 38 degrees total--with good fuel.
Better than the tape ,is an adjustable timing light, however ,little nostalgic and does serve a good purpose...for cheap.
Still say it's a shame we can't all pick up a 12 pack,head over there and get this old Z fired up !---steve, I even got a set of old big tube SuperComps that sound oh so sweet uncorked on that 302.
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Danny....not distributor related but could you take a few photos of the front spoiler. Always looking for an original 1st, design spoiler. Hard to find photos of them....most have been replaced by the larger service replacement. Thanks in advance for your trouble.
And Danny, the hardware!
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Danny,
How are you doing after the quake? I hope all is well.
Paul
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Thanx for asking...Holly Crap Batman, VIOLENT!! My 5th wheel trailer almost flipped over! Scared the hell out of me. I am about 5 miles from the epicenter. 3:20am got woken up from a dead sleep and just about made it out the door and it stopped as sudden as it started. Still have a headache from my heart rate being blasted up. Not fun, poor people in Napa took a good hit.
On a much happier and lighter note... Here are some updates and pictures...
First up, Better shots of distributor now that I pulled it. Sure hope it is original.
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Better shot of Block Casting Date with Distributor removed.. Used some different lighting.
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closer
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Front Spoiler as requested. Hard to get good pictures, but hope this helps... Danny
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front spoiler.. Notice the cut mark all the way around. Small ridges. Bet the repro ones don't have that..
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more
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more
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more
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more
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Mounting Bolts.. Large hole
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more
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Small holes
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Small mounting holes
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Yup, just is I thought, you have the short spoiler with no braces.....the same one that was on my 07C car. The hardware is very interesting also....your car has the standard center bolt (5/16 shouldered) and the small hardware is shouldered screws. My car has shouldered machine screws on the spoiler side and nuts on the valence side. There have been several threads on the spoiler and the hardware and this shows that there were indeed two different types of mounting hardware, screws and machine screws with nuts.
Thanks so much for your time and effort for fulfilling our request.
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No problem.. D
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Better shots of distributor now that I pulled it. Sure hope it is original.
Distributor looks good, Danny. Here's another 467 for comparison.
Paul
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Yes I can see the 4 and the 7 have those distinctive markings in the corners, and the fonting matches nice. My date is spaced out a little more, but I have seen many like this. Sure we all have. Danny
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Here is my balancer. Remember in a previous post we thought maybe it could have spun. Well here it is... The mark lines up perfect with the center of the keyway. Is this good to go?? Is this where it is when it leaves the assembly... ready for use? .. Danny
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In your bottom pic it looks like the key is clocked. I HOPE that's an illusion. If not the key is about to shear.
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Someone's had that off for some reason. It's been installed the old fashion way.
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Holy Crap!!.. I was wondering about that, as the key looks a little mangled. I wonder why the balancer was removed, as you can see the beating it took at reinstall. I hate that... it can't be good for the crank to be slammed like that. They must make a tool that can take it off and press it back on without killing it. I will get some more detailed pic's of the keyway before this all goes back together.
But back to my original question... If the keyway wasn't looking beat up, is this the correct alignment, factory position. Meaning it has NOT spun at the rubber?? I also am noticing some rubber bulging out in places. Is this ok?? Should I delicately push it back in? I will get better pictures but here is one of the keyway, and some of the rubber.... Danny
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rubber
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rubber
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rubber bulging out?... I'm getting scared!!
Anybody have an extra Balancer in great or NOS condition??... Danny
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if you remove the balancer with the proper tool insure that all parts are ok. the slot in the balancer,the key, and the slot in the crank. In the past I installed a new key with a questionable slot in the balancer and ruined my crank.
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Hi Danny,
I agree with Maroman and Kelley.... Your key doesn't look good. Clean up the slots, buy a new key, and ensure it fits tightly in the crank slot and the balancer slot, then install it correctly. You have to make sure the key is firmly down in the center of the crankshaft, with it's outer tip *slightly down* from level, to ensure it slides into the balancer slot.. when you are installing the balancer, make sure it's slot slides over the key at the front. Once it engages correctly, it's generally not a problem. Yours seems to have been mangled by improper assembly in the past... but hopefully your crank keyway and balancer keyways are good.. WHen you are cleaning up the slots (for burrs, et), check the crankshaft snout for burrs as well and remove any extending burrs, but you don't want to reduce the circumference of the crankshaft when you do that.
The slightly bulging rubber between the inner and outer balancer rings is not unusual, and is not necessarily a problem; your outer wheels is still aligned so it hasn't moved on the balancer as yet. If the rubber is 'cracking and peeling/falling out', then I'd be more concerned, but yours doesn't look bad to me. The 'hammer marks' on the center of the balancer is also not unusual, as that happens often, but you can avoid that by using a plate (metal, or even a hardwood?) across the front of the balancer -center only - make sure as you are tapping it on, that you don't put any force on the outer wheel. When the balancer bottoms out against the crankshaft, you will hear it clearly, and should stop, and install your crankshaft bolt/washer. Torque to spec. your *might* be able to pull the balancer on using that bolt, but generally tap them into place (using a spacer to spread the load as I stated up there), and then install the bolt.
If you have the overhaul manual, it should have instructions for that checking and reassembly also.
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Rubber looks about normal, yes they make the proper tools--for installation try a very long grade 8 bolt which fits the crank--washers and nut, than press it on. I have a very thick washer/spacer from an ARP balancer bolt I use. UTILIZE the NUT to press it on, don't just spin it on with the bolt.
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It's the original, resized:
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Rubber looks about normal, yes they make the proper tools--for installation try a very long grade 8 bolt which fits the crank--washers and nut, than press it on. I have a very thick washer/spacer from an ARP balancer bolt I use. UTILIZE the NUT to press it on, don't just spin it on with the bolt.
Harmonic balancer removal tool is what your looking for to take it off, yea that simple, LOL. If it comes off easy, should go on easy , again that simple. Bolt will work as stated, just a little leery of stripping it out if it's a snug fit. I've had good luck pressing them on. Make sure you change your seal.
1.align,start pushing it on by hand,square.
2. install your longer bolt with spacer/nut
3.Hand tighten till contact is made: spacer/balancer
4. use a wrench to tighten the nut, thus drawing the balancer in till it stops, as mentioned above
Like was mentioned prior to above, debur,use some fine steel wool and wd40 to lightly clean off any surface rust--use a little moly lube on the end of the crank prior to installation.
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Well as always, thanx everyone... Just back from Lake Tahoe for 4 days! The girlfriend and I have been together one year. She treated me to a $355 dinner at Ciera Steak House in MontBleu Casino. SPECTAGULAR!!
So I got back my Distributor all dialed in, and the Alternator all bearinged up nice. No cosmetic cleaning, restoring or stamping. Cost $207 for both. 326 Water pump came in from Bill Mock and is sweeeeet! I thought I was adjusting the valves tonight and putting her all back together over the weekend. But not now I guess...
I tried last night to find TDC with my friends dial indicator. Had my girl hold her finger over the hole turned it by hand until it pushed her out and made that air sound. Friend gave me the brass extension rod and I set it all up in the hole with the crank one inch from TDC. it worked except as you know, it's not a hemi, and it doesn't come straight up. So the brass rod dragged across the top of the piston and I couldn't get an accurate measurement. It's not a straight shot. And the indicator turns too many times, and is too sensitive. When it finally goes down the other way, the thing has made way too many turns. No way to tell where TDC is at. I thought I would get to the top, then see it go down, then back it up and put it in the middle.... A lot harder than it looks, and sounds! The damn piston stays at TDC too long before traveling back the other way.
Ok SO... how do I ask for the crank key? Every time I try to buy something local they say all kinds of stupid sh*^... like GM doesn't have water pump bypass hoses, or GM doesn't have pressed edge fuel pumps and on and on. Half the time they tell me GM NEVER made a 302.. Do I JUST SAY ... I need a crank key for a '68 327?... I will buy a puller later today or tom. I am out of cash now with all these latest purchases and rebuilds. Maybe I can borrow one. Going to have to shut it down for a while... Bummer Can't take advantage of the girlfriend. Just gave her 9 hundred dollar bills yesterday. I am spent...
Hey Jon Mello, don't you live in the bay area? I am 42 miles north of the Golden Gate, ya wanna help me?...Danny
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Danny, Here in Ohio, we have a few car part stores (chain stores) that will 'loan' you tools like a balancer puller. You put down a deposit and get it back when tool is returned. Now, It might be hard to find someone at those stores that knows what a balancer or anything else on a car is that does not involve a laptop or a chip...but that is a different story.
Mmmm, steak!...better enjoy it now my friend. By the time I buy all the parts I need for my car, the only 'steak' I'll be getting is a Kentucky round steak (Bologna for the rest of ya'all).
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Borrow a puller. Don't some auto parts stores loan tools? I THINK what you are going to find is a damaged key, hope the keyways are OK. If it is use an oilstone to dress the burr, not a file. I'm fairly sure any sbc key is the same. Have a buddy that's a machinist? Everybody does.
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Autozones, Advance Auto, etc.. out here have free loaners for tools. Say you need a new timing cover seal, which you should replace if doing what you are doing ,they'll loan the tool out...they are in business to sell parts. No specific key per say, proper size is what you need. Take your old one in to match up .
Sounds like life's treating you pretty good out there, good for you.
Also....threads are looking a little ruff ( crank pulley bolt holes) I'd chase them to clean them up some.
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man,you 2 were quick!
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Danny, Here in Ohio, we have a few car part stores (chain stores) that will 'loan' you tools like a balancer puller. You put down a deposit and get it back when tool is returned. Now, It might be hard to find someone at those stores that knows what a balancer or anything else on a car is that does not involve a laptop or a chip...but that is a different story.
I've been lucky, went through a bad spell a few years, stores got smart and hired in mostly retirees around here....guys who actually know what your talking about!
Summit is almost just as bad nowadays, keystrokes. The old Summit store and Supershops is were you talked over a counter concerning HP parts.
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Hey Jon Mello, don't you live in the bay area? I am 42 miles north of the Golden Gate, ya wanna help me?...Danny
Sorry Danny, I'm 5-6 hours away from you.
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JM, I was actually kinda kidding. It would have been fun.
I went into Kragen and the kid went back to get the tool for me to use. When he came out it was zip tied and was new. It was $30 so I just bought it. I got it pulled and the keyway in the balancer and crank look good to me. Even the woodruff was not bad. I bought an assortment of 5 and the correct one is in the package. So gotta clean everything up. I took the timing cover off and have some pictures to share. I gotta load them up and resize them. Forgot to protect the bolt head, ruined it. Oh well, if that's the worst thing so far, not bad.
Looks like the top gear is plastic? I took it off and inspected it and the other gear, chain looks loose, but only on ONE side. Then I rotated the engine a few times to line up the writing so I could get some good pictures. Just kidding, I'm dumb, but I isn't stupid. ;D I guess I will have to install a timing chain assembly and seal while I have it all apart, Right? What manufacturer should I use? Anybody got any part numbers?... Danny
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balancer removal, timing chain inspection... Both keyways look ok.
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more, And Plastic gear damaged
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more
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more
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More keyways
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more
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Anybody know if this is the paint markings for a GM 30/30 Duntov
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Crank Gear...Showing SOME wear... Look ok?? Can I leave it?... Danny
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more lower gear
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DON'T PULL THAT CAM OUT !
well....there's your wandering timing....
New gears will come in your timing set...go with a quality roller. I had a 68 Pontiac with nylon? timing gear, to decrease noise, but they were garbage. Was not aware they used them in Z's ??? Get that engine at TDC ,check alignment "dots" on your gear set.
Use blue locktite on your pulley bolts during reassembly. Crank snout looks good, make sure no play between your new key and the keyway in your balancer. IMO,if there is shelve it for a new one, but doesn't really look bad from the pics
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Personally, I didn't see a need to replace the crank gear from his photos. I'd replace the chain and use an all metal cam gear, but leave the crank/gear in place. There was a time in the past that replacement crank gears were not as strong/good as the originals... not sure how that might have changed, but still didn't see a need to replace the crank gear... IMO...
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Ok guys thanx... I had heard years ago that ALL GM 302's had plastic cam gears.. I guess I just helped confirm... Here we go with the damn TDC thing again. If the lines line up right now, can't I just buy the new set-up and slide it on and make it up where it is? I think I put it at "0" on the timing cover perfectly before I took it off. By the way, Zero is TDC right? Sure would like to have a set-up that members have used and know is nice and strong, and a clean fit set.. I have never bought one... Danny
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Gotta agree with Gary, crank gear looks good....and most likely superior to the well known ones out there, which have long since been outsourced. Quite a bit of writings on this a few years ago by engine builders.
As far as I know Cloyes maintains a good rep,as well as Lunati. We run a PBM , more than you need for your application.
About that #@#! TDC thing, pretty important thing to have a handle on when you start tearing into these. Yes, can put it back together exactly the way it came apart, as long as it's exactly the way it came apart.
Pick up David Vizard's book on " Rebuilding your SBC" take a read through before you proceed, just a suggestion. Great reference material, jot a few notes in it on your engine. Jot a few notes from John Z's articles in it and some some of the info out of these posts pertaining to 302's fine tuning in it.
They make a distinct, beautiful sound when they are tuned correctly and screaming, but are not forgiving being a performance engine if poorly maintained.
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" some " of the well known ones
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Danny, I hope I didn't lead you astray. In your post #327 the key looks offset, I even said it could be an illusion. Glad the key way is OK and looks like you've found your problem with the cam gear.
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Danny,
Given that your cam gear was screwed up, I don't think you can get by with just 'putting things back together' in the positions that the crank/cam are sitting... you (at least) need to VERIFY that the cam to crank timing is good, by aligning the dots on the gears when you install the cam gear; this will require you turning the engine by hand to achieve that. Once that is done and the chain installed, move or ensure #1 is at TDC, and install your distributor... hook up the wires... etc.
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pull the plugs ,will rotate very easy.
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Jano, always appreciate the advice from everyone here. Sounds good, I will pick up a Cloyes set-up from Summit or the like. I have a good working knowledge but by no means a Car Mechanic kinda knowledge. If you were talking mechanical in the trades, THEN we can talk about dimensional changes in materials with different expansion coefficients and expansion ratings caused by temperature changes at a constant pressure. Thermal baby! LOL ;D ;D I crack myself up...
Maroman, you DID NOT lead me anywhere negative. It ended up being some sort of adhesive buildup cocked at an angle. Which gave the illusion that the markings might not be lining up. But I am happy to say the crank looks great, as does the balancer. No burrs to be found upon close inspection.
Will get the timing chain set-up, make sure everything lines up, adjust the valves and start reassembly. Have a lot of notes on what to do as I go.
Have had the plugs out now for a few days. Does turn over nicely.
Here is balancer, timing cover all cleaned up and date photographed on each. Also the cam gear only had "3" full teeth! The rest were worn down or near gone. Good thing you all said to pull it apart. First up close up of teeth...Danny
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cam gear
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Date on Balancer B8 and date on Cover 4 68... So pretty cool. This sucker sure is numbers matching top to bottom.
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also on balancer inside one of the spokes looks like F-1 G 2. What are those marks?
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timing cover
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What is this dimple in balancer? Is this the 36 or 38 degrees mark for timing?
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Remember that when you set the cam and crank gears "dot-to-dot" to install the timing chain, the engine is at TDC on the compression stroke for Number 6 cylinder; in order to set it at TDC on the compression stroke for Cylinder #1, you need to turn the crank one full turn so both dots are at 12 o'clock. Then you can install the distributor with the rotor pointing at the #1 wire tower in the cap, and it'll run. :)
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JohnZ Thanx... I think I get it. I will print this out and keep it near by. What is that Balancer dimple?... Danny
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I'm at the station today, will take a look at my balancer tomorrow and see where the dimple is in relation to the degree markings.
Reference marks crank/timing remember : 12:00/6:00
12:00/12:00
install dist.
Just as posted above via John Z.
When all is done, read up on cold setting the timing....very easy to do. Think it graces this site somewhere. You are going to notice 100% improvement in your performance with the new chain and gear.
Also check for a loaner balancer installer....no reason it shouldn't press on smooth for you.
Just to brain check you : at 12:00 and 6:00 crank/cam, #6 TDC. rotor should point to #6 terminal on cap....dist could be installed this way. If you pointed it to # 1 terminal withoutrotating the crank 360 degrees , 180 degrees on the cam ,which puts both marks at 12:00....you would have installed it "180 out" a frequently used term, but less frequently explained.
Study the above picture per John, making sense :) 2:1 crank/cam ratio
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Danny....You have my curiosity aroused, never thought about that dimple before. My '68 has a dimple but it is only a 1/4" to the right from the line (balancer laying face down). Maybe someone will have a logical answer.
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Holly crap I screwed up big time. I was thinking of my mustangs, as I had 5 at once, all 65'-66' fastbacks...Then switched to Camaros a few years ago. Have not had a Chevy for many years... Anyway I used the LEFT front for no. ONE. NOW it's ALL pulled apart and I don't know what the hell to do! Can't believe I did that. I don't know which way is up. JUST when I was getting a handle of all the info previous, I go and do this... I don't know which way to rotate clock or counter, Do I now have my girl stick her finger in the REAL No. one, for comp. stroke... but then what? Do I Put the cover back on with 3 or 4 bolts.... then delicately slide the balancer on part way. Or stick the chain and beat-up gear back on and try to find TDC. Or turn the Cam by hand? Or wait to buy the new set-up and use it??????????????????? S*^t !!!.... Danny
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relax :)
take your plugs out ,rotate the crank CW, about a quarter turn until the indexing mark (dot) on crank gear is at 12:00 see John's illustration. your real close per your pic.
loosen your rocker arms so as no contact with pushrods---maintain order if you take them off. at this time all valves are closed, and will stay that way.
use your old gear and rotate cam CW till timing mark at 6:00, see Johns illustration. stop. read up some and wait for your parts.
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Ok, will do... Thanx... Danny
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There's a reason Ford starts with F.
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Jumping in and out of here.....loosen those rockers first, again, relax.
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Danny....You have my curiosity aroused, never thought about that dimple before. My '68 has a dimple but it is only a 1/4" to the right from the line (balancer laying face down). Maybe someone will have a logical answer.
Only dimple I have can be seen in a previous pic.....about 52 degrees. Nothing on the outer surface like dan's---plus there are some variations. For balancing purposes guessing ? I have a couple 400 ones I took a look at, externally balanced, full of dimples on the sides. Sort of makes sense it to be a timing mark, where is it ? Around 3/4" is 10 degrees...very roughly.
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bigger pic
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Balancer and key look good. I'd reuse the key.
Put in the new timing chain and both new gears. There could be differences in the old/new gears and that would be bad.
Timing chains are always a weak link. Thankfully you pulled it apart.
Remember to put in a new seal in the timing cover. It gets pressed out and pressed in.
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I would pull the oil pan and get all those pieces of plastic out of the oil pump screen!
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Well, I ordered the Cloyes heavy duty heat treated timing chain set-up today. Picked up the new gasket, bottom rubber seal, and the timing cover seal. I guess I can have it pressed in and out. Or out and in as such. I was going to beat it out, and press it in with wood and my work truck vise. Carefully square it up and press it in. Maybe I better not.
Kurt, I was wondering about that gear thing. I was going to mic the OD, and then also bottom of teeth at 12 to bottom of teeth at 6 O'clock position and compare it to the new one. The steel HAS to be better 46 years ago, right? I don't know how to get the crank gear off. Can't use the puller cause it has no female threads to install bolts to pull it. I might have to borrow a gear puller. I have one that has 5.5 inch capacity, says right on it. But I don't know if it will reach, as it is not out front like the balancer.
As far as dropping the pan, I just don't know. I know it's a good idea, but where does it end. Then while I am in there, I might as well change the oil pump, then what the hell.... get some plastic gauge and start pulling main caps, might as well do bearings to.... Ha Ha ... I am out of cash. Scrapped together enough for the timing set. I just can't lay on the cement floor and pull that pan, not now anyway. And there probably is a bunch of crap in the way?? Steering, and cross members, etc.
SUPER important question... Is the timing set the same for 302, 327, 350? Or even 283. Cause the guy could not find the set for GM 302, just 327, so that's what I got... Is it ok?... Danny
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OK, so I decided to put the timing assembly all back together. I need the practice anyway. So I installed the cam gear and chain, installed the timing cover, and knocked down the crank key with my baby plastic hobby hammer. Beat the balancer back on half way with a 2 X 4 and a single jack. Stuck the puller bolts in the balancer and put a pry bar in between them and rotated clock wise with my right thumb over # 1 hole. Heard compression air push thru, lined up timing mark at TDC perfectly. Then pulled it all apart and is now ready for NEW timing set. Then after install, MAYBE I can finally drop in the dist. and set the valves and start to put it back together this weekend.... Danny
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Looking at my picture and John Z's picture, I better rotate dot-to-dot tomorrow in prep for timing chain alignment. THEN rotate back to 12 and 12 for dist. drop-in.... RIGHT ?... Danny
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Looking at my picture and John Z's picture, I better rotate dot-to-dot tomorrow in prep for timing chain alignment. THEN rotate back to 12 and 12 for dist. drop-in.... RIGHT ?... Danny
Good idea.
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Danny,
re your question on timing set: size and dimension wise, and teeth numbers, etc.. all the old small block chevys are the same.
you should pull your valve covers and watch what the number 1 and 6 cyl valves do as you turn the motor... and see the differences... as you rotate thru two turns of the crankshaft.
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What is this dimple in balancer? Is this the 36 or 38 degrees mark for timing?
Measure the distance of the dot from the mark and we can do the math to check.
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Before you install your balancer........I would put a ring of black RTV around the end of the balancer hub and also some in the key slot to seal out the oil from seeping through.
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I already have the valve covers off. Had to pull the fuel line to get to the right side without crunching it. That's what happened to the stock one, as it's all bent bad. I was looking at the valves last night while rotating, never really paid attention as a kid. Just wanted to get it together and go get another ticket ;D... 17 moving violations before the age of 20! Good Times!..
The distance from the balancer line to the dimple Center to Center = 1-1/32"... Call it one I guess. So if 3/4" = 10 degrees... Then 1" = 13.3 Degrees. What is THAT measurement in relation to timing?... Danny
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The distance from the balancer line to the dimple Center to Center = 1-1/32"... Call it one I guess. So if 3/4" = 10 degrees... Then 1" = 13.3 Degrees. What is THAT measurement in relation to timing?... Danny
That dimple is meaningless - has no relation to anything.
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Well that settles the dimple mystery.
I picked up my timing chain set-up and it is a double. How do I know when to stop when pressing this on? Do I go until it stops, will it bottom out in the correct location? Will it clear cover? ... Danny
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Well that settles the dimple mystery.
I picked up my timing chain set-up and it is a double. How do I know when to stop when pressing this on? Do I go until it stops, will it bottom out in the correct location? Will it clear cover? ... Danny
Yes,yes and yes...brings back memories of my first open engine surgery, yea, I was nervous, had the same questions, I was 16.
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The distance from the balancer line to the dimple Center to Center = 1-1/32"... Call it one I guess. So if 3/4" = 10 degrees... Then 1" = 13.3 Degrees. What is THAT measurement in relation to timing?... Danny
That dimple is meaningless - has no relation to anything.
How about 13 degrees initial timing - at idle ?
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The bottom gear should just slide off.
You can't compare tooth profile etc. Just change it. I'd never mix them.
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Kurt,
Do you mean just reach down and pull it off with your hand? No way was it going to just slide off. I had to crank the hell out off it with the puller, with a 12" wrench for a holdback, then it broke loose and began coming forward. Took a lot of balls to get it to finally pop. I will install the new set-up, and my friend is going to help adjust the valves. Then hopefully finish it up this weekend if I can. Can't wait to see the difference with the new chain assembly, carb, and distributor. I hope she runs good... Danny
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part way off, and off
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Its suppose to be a press fit.
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Danny, good story & great pictures. Usually there should be a a protective piece of steel stock to go between the crank and puller center bolt so as not to damage the threads. I don't see anything in the picture, you might want to check the threads in the nose of the crank. George
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I think Kurt must have just meant that it won't be a problem, and should come right off.
It has a key, so yes I figured press fit.
Whoops, you are right. I hope it's ok. I will check the threads later today. Danny
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Update on my stupidity... I screwed up the crank threads slightly without putting the proper tip in the puller. Hope I can chase them. Got 2 really nice tap and die sets. Blue point and can't remember the other, but dual layers and complete.
Timing chain is in picture, but it won't line up. I pressed on the crank gear and beat it the rest of the way with deep 1-3/8ths socket. Checked the back with my dental mirror and she is buried. The timing marks don't line up. There was SO much slack in the old set-up that I can't get it into position. Need the cam to go clock wise an 1/8". Should I rotate the cam, or the crank? I strained my balls trying to get it on with the marks lined up and it just won't quite go. I was careful before when rotating to make sure to slowly come around and line it all up. But again, TOO much slack. As you can see in the picture it is a tooth off. And has a lot of play, also in that position you cant put the cam bolts in even if ya wanted to. However, not enough play to make it. Help! Didn't wanna get impatient and start to crank things without asking first. Better to move the crank ever so slightly?...
And lastly a picture or two of my NCRS report I forgot to post months ago.... Danny
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NCRS Report
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Did you relieve the pressure on the valves.....loosen the rockers.....like I suggested.
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Danny, It looks to me like you may be a tooth off, but it is really hard to confirm an assessment since the cam bolts are not installed. Install the bolts, snug them to seat gear to cam, then look at dots. If they line up, proceed to re-assemble, if not, unbolt, remove gear and chain, move (rotate) cam and top gear until corrected, then put chain back on without turning cam position.
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Jano is right; with the spring pressures on the cam, it might be difficult to turn the cam the way you need to.
1) Turn the crank until the crank gear dot is 'straight up'.. that looks good in your photo.
2) Put the cam into position, dots aligned.. install the chain on the gears (don't worry about the cam bolts at this point).
3) Turn the cam until it aligns on the pin, and install the bolts.
For step 3, if the gear dots are aligned but the bolts/holes in the cam/gear are not, then the cam needs to turn, not the gear.
If you can't turn the cam easily, then do what Jano has suggested, which means you will need to check/adjust the valves after (which is a good thing to do anyway since you don't really know they are properly adjusted already)..
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Should be no strain. With plugs out ,crank will rotate easy. With rockers off ,cam just riding in the bearings....no spring pressure, no chance of valve interference with pistons. Crank could go slightly CCW, a few degrees , could just be the pic. Cam rotates to line up with crank when piston is at it's highest point in the cylinder. For your application. Crank gear timing mark should be exactly at 12:00. With chain off, bolt your timing gear on and align marks crank@12;00,cam@6:00. Unbolt cam gear ,should only have been finger tight. Assemble chain per instructions. Be patient ,may take a few tries for proper alignment. Kolektor is correct. Even with cam bolts installed. Final assembly, bolts should receive a little Permatex blue locktite.
Now would also be a good time to check your pushrods---one at a time as used valve train MUST be kept in order as disassembled.
I would do initial valve adjustment prior to installation of distributor, with timing cover off. Check for valve closure and piston interference. Should be ok, none the less we check anyway.
With valves adjusted (plenty in the forums on this ,cold setting) Rotate your engine back to crank@12:00 , cam@12:00 ,#1 piston will be at TDC...install your distributor. Rotor to #1 tower position. Lock it down for now.
Button the rest of this project up. Cold set the timing, check for potential vacuum leaks. Set, than 1.5 turns out on you mixture screws. Fire it up, check timing. Run through the valves again, fine tune the carb.
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You win again Gary...between you and Cook... ;D nuff said ,I got work to do.
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Well after about 25 attempts of moving the cam slightly CW and CCW the new timing chain assembly is installed. Pretty tight tolerance getting all 3 bolts in. Cleaned bolts with carb cleaner and dried. Put two drops of blue loc on each thread and installed them and torqued them down.
NOW the bad news... while checking all the pushrods, one of the lifters got slightly stuck with oil to the bottom of the pushrod and pulled the lifter out and dropped it in the galley. Nobody mentioned twisting while pulling and make sure to pull slow, or is it fast? I can see thru the little rectangular holes in the head, next to the pushrod holes, the lifter laying on it's side. I am done, I closed it all up and put everything away. I have to walk away from it... Danny
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If you get a small telescopic magnet you might luck up and get it in. But with all you have done pulling the intake is not that big of a deal. While it is off I like adjusting the valve lash when you can see the cam. You can also look at the lifters bottoms and check for wear. Might be an inspection that could save on bigger problems later and since you are dating all parts you can check the intake date. It is on the bottom under the oil shield.
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I decided to get back into the car. I took 2 telescopic magnets and stuck them down through the site holes in the head. Started dragging it towards the hole, when low and behold it stood right up next to the hole. I sucked out the right side magnet and grabbed a long Phillips screwdriver, pushed it and dropped it right back in the hole. The whole project took about 30 seconds!. Ya gotta love it.
So timing chain is on and lined up nice... rotated the crank to get the 12 O'clock 12 O'clock line up... dropped in the distributor with the rotor shooting at number one. It's actually kinda in between number one and number three. Hope that's right. Had the new seal pressed in the cover, and RTV'd down the gasket. Used my girlfriends bra strap {her idea} to hold the lower timing cover rubber in over night with RTV. Stuck a couple shorty screwdrivers in the holes to keep it stretched outward. {See Pictures} Pulled it off the next day and it was perfect. Didn't wanna loosen the pan bolts... So I got one end in, then stuck a Phillips screwdriver in the other end and right into a block threaded hole... Pushed down like hell and in, and it went... Taped on the bottom half with the rubber mallet.... Installed the bolts and made it up... Installed the timing tape on the balancer.... Cleaned a couple baby burr's off the Original woodruff key and balancer keyway.... Put a little assembly lube on the outside of the hub... a little in the keyway... assembled the balancer installer tool and pressed it on.... Installed the lower pulley with smaller bolts.... put two drops of blue loc on the large bolt and cranked it in and torqued it down... Installed the new matching water pump and original bypass hose with correct clamps. Installed the alternator and wired it up....Installed upper and lower rad hoses...
This baby is starting to look like an engine again. Just need to button up a couple things like valve covers, Sparkplugs and wires, anti-freeze, air cleaner and she is ready to fire... Hopefully this weekend I will be driving Raquel. My GF named her... Danny
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Pic's of progress... Lower pulley bolts
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Main Crank bolt and washers
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Large thick Crank Washer/Spacer
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Bra strap holder... All Rockers have the "O" and in great shape... Pushrods all in great shape...
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more strap, and rocker assembly
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Rocker
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Pushrods also in nice shape
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Ha, wonderful !!
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Tops of all valves nice shape.. Sure can tell a 55,000 mile car that hasn't been beat...
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I used my wife's bra strap too on my engine, but it is a big block if that gives you any idea :o ;D
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Timing chain all dialed in...
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Yes it does help to have a ... how should I put this... therrteateDee... LOL ;D
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A few other during reassembly, Cover rubber nice and clean, with no voids after strap removal
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more
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7/16ths 20 tap to clean up the threads I messed up.
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Balancer and pulley going on
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more
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Danny,
How are you pushing the damper onto the crankshaft?
Mike
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Mike here is the tool I bought. It is, in fact, a "harmonic balancer installer".... The hold back wrench slipped a little before this picture was taken. But you thread it into the crank and start to turn and she goes right in. I just put the open end wrench against the frame so I didn't have to hold two things.
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326 Water Pump
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WP part # and Date Embossed
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Last night I had a little more progress...
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More progress... It just kills me not to clean and wire wheel all this stuff and prime it, and repaint it, and bake it in my oven. And paint the front of the block and the heads etc. BUT, I KNOW, she is a survivor, so I will keep it that way.
I have decided to leave this car as is... At least for now I don't think I will ever paint it. I will have it wet sanded and a couple coats of clear applied and leave it be. If the motor ever lets go, and I have to pull it, well then we can see...
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more progress... My friend could not help with the valve adjustment, so I did it myself. I think I did it correctly. I followed JohnZ's instructions. We will see...
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I forget where the coil wires go??
I know the distributor wire goes to the neg. side.
Brown wire coming from left side thru harness carrier on firewall. It has a nice u-shaped bracket attached. ?
And the wire coming from the coil resister. ?
That porcelain thing that is not even stock for my car, but I'll leave it for now. Probably can't hurt.
Gonna change the oil and filter and fire it up Tom. Morning. Yea!!. Then get it timed and adjust the carb. If she runs good, then it's out to Sears Point for 116 Octane LEADED! I'll do a half tank of that and half 76.. Danny
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Danny, remember that a little lead goes a long way (for octane).. I'd think no more than 3 gallons of 116 octane leaded along with 10-12 gallons of unleaded, would bring your full tank to above 100 Octane...
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Good to hear everything is going so good for you and for your '68 Z. Can you actually buy 116 octane leaded gas from a pump at Sears Point, or do you have to buy it by bulk in 5 gal. cans?
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Danny, remember that a little lead goes a long way (for octane).. I'd think no more than 3 gallons of 116 octane leaded along with 10-12 gallons of unleaded, would bring your full tank to above 100 Octane...
Or you could drive down to beautiful Redwood City, CA, "Climate Best By Government Test", and get 100 octane straight out of the pump! :)
Paul
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Still no answer on the coil wires?? Or the ceramic resistor block??
I hear ya on the octane. I will throw in 3 or 4 gallons and the rest 91 at 76.
Yes Vince, I am feeling pretty good. And ready to get Raquel on the road. There was a pump out at the track 3 or 4 years ago with the 116. I will have to update that info. But good idea, I will bring my two 5 gallon cans out.
Paul, I am very surprised to see 100 at ANY pump in CA. Do you live in Redwood City?.. ... Danny
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Paul, I am very surprised to see 100 at ANY pump in CA. Do you live in Redwood City?.. ... Danny
Yup. :)
Paul
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I figured the wiring out and fired it up. I guess my solo valve adjustment went well. She runs pretty good. I let it warm up and thermostat open, topped off the anti-freeze. Checked for water/oil leaks. It's not quite right at this point. But Tom will set the dwell at 32, time it, and adjust the carb. It started as fast as I could turn the key. Just RIGHT NOW Boom. The motor doesn't even shake. Oil was dirty so I changed the oil and filter. I also flushed the motor before I installed the water pump. Got a bunch of rust crap out. After tom test drive, I will pull it in the driveway and pull the bottom rad. hose and dump it. I am getting pretty excited at this point..
Hey Paul, are you the closest member of the CRG team to me here in Sonoma? Maybe I will make a run down Sunday ;D ... Danny
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OUTSTANDING, Danny... you can believe that we are all smiling hugely for you.. :)
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Gary's correct on fuel/octane. My father rebuilt the 302 in 1990 and had hardened valve seats installed when they went through the heads. Did some duty in the Anglia when it was in street form and ran great on Premium pump. Problem is with these pre cat engines is they need lead for lubrication. (heads) I know there are additives on the market ,someone can chime in for recommendations. My 12.5:1 engine needed higher octane to prevent pre ignition (pinging), and we run 116 in the 14.75:1 motor. 1/2 gallon a pass ! Congrats on your progress ,know you have that warm feeling of pride. If you ever rebuild an engine ,follow those same procedures for initial start up. Upon break in, you do not want continued roll over....problems. Stop and re-evaluate.
I do love the smell of race fuel ,but it comes with a high price tag !
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Hey Paul, are you the closest member of the CRG team to me here in Sonoma? Maybe I will make a run down Sunday ;D ... Danny
Possibly. I have family that live in Sonoma on Fifth Street East. My cousin owns a small coffee shop in Downtown Sonoma. I'll be coaching soccer games all weekend! :)
Paul
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New problem occuring. Heated it up to operating tempurature. Set the dwell at exactly 32, it was at 30 from the distributor rebuild guy. Set the timing at 4 degress BTDC. Set the static idle at 900. Sitting at an idle with no load on it it purrs like a kitten. Try to give it a little gas about 2 or 3000 RPM's and it starts to shake violently and has a HUGE steady miss. I thought I had it licked. But no way I can even move it out of the garage. Keep in mind this is a NEW problem that was not there before. Going out to make sure I don't have any spark plug wires crossed. What the hell?? I wish 10 of you guys lived close so we could dial this baby in... Wind out of sales, I mean sails... Danny
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You need to take a deep breathe. Think about what you've been doing, the answer is right there in front of you and you will find it.
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Ok update.. No spark plug wires crossed. Harmonic balancer not spun. I thinks it's electrical. I guess I can drop in my other distributor and see if that makes a diff.
Going home after dinner and get the other unit and bring it back and see what happens. It doesn't have the 532 point plate in it, but who cares about that right now.. Danny
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Danny,
Did you take the non-stock ballast resistor out of the ignition circuit, or leave it in ? It could be restricting your voltage from the coil enough to run you out of the energy needed to keep it firing. Stock coil ? Probably don't need one with a stocker -
I ran one for years (ballast resistor), but only when I was running a Mallory Voltmaster coil, stock distributor, to keep from burning the points up too quickly.
Just my opinion -
Regards,
Steve
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Steve, I did NOT take it out yet. I guess I just continue the wire to the coil, but bypass that resistor? I wonder if the dist. is out 180?
Maroman, it almost seems by the way you are phrasing your reply... that you already know the problem . Are you holding out on me to try and let me learn something ;D Cause if you are, don't... ha ha The dist. will be pulled in about 30 min's. And I sure as hell don't wanna pull it if you know the problem. I wanna go for a drive dangit!. ... Danny
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Don't know your problem. But I've been there many times. You look at something too close and can't see it.
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Ok so I pulled Number one plug. Rotated to TDC on the compression stroke. Pulled the cap and the rotor is facing number one. I'm lost... Danny
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Possibly valves may be set wrong.
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New problem occuring. Heated it up to operating tempurature. Set the dwell at exactly 32, it was at 30 from the distributor rebuild guy. Set the timing at 4 degress BTDC. Set the static idle at 900. Sitting at an idle with no load on it it purrs like a kitten. Try to give it a little gas about 2 or 3000 RPM's and it starts to shake violently and has a HUGE steady miss. I thought I had it licked. But no way I can even move it out of the garage. Keep in mind this is a NEW problem that was not there before. Going out to make sure I don't have any spark plug wires crossed. What the hell?? I wish 10 of you guys lived close so we could dial this baby in... Wind out of sales, I mean sails... Danny
Danny, I don't think you have a tight valve if it idles smooth, sounds like an ignition or fuel delivery problem. Hook up your timing light to the coil wire and watch the light at 2500 rpm, if it looks erratic, you have an ignition problem. If that's OK watch the carb above the throttle plates and see if the fuel coming out of the venturies looks consistent at 2500 rpm. Look from the side not directly over the carb encase it backfires in your face. Good luck. George
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Steve, I did NOT take it out yet. I guess I just continue the wire to the coil, but bypass that resistor? I wonder if the dist. is out 180?
There is a resistor wire built in to the harness - controls the voltage to the coil, adding another resistor reduces the voltage even further. As long as you're running a stock coil and stock wiring harness, take it out of the loop.
180 out will run similar to the symptoms you described, but usually backfires quite a bit. Valves wouldn't be adjusted incorrectly if it starts and runs that easily. Ignition is the most likely culprit, followed by fuel delivery. Check your float/fuel level in the carb ?
Regards,
Steve
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Guys car will backfire with not much effort out of the carb. I was just babying it the last time I started it so it wouldn't do it. This is a new problem, so I don't think it all of a sudden is that resistor, however I will pull it today.
I can't believe how steady it runs at an idle. Carb only has a few minutes on it, it's a brand new Holley. I am not running the original at this time. But of course I will check it for proper delivery. I am also going to flip the dist 180 and drop it back in. Update soon... D
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Update...Removed the resistor from the mix. Pulled the distributor at least 25 times and could not get it to line up with the rotor pointing at NUMBER ONE!. It always points to number 3. There is no tooth in between section. I tried 20 or 30 times in 3.5 hours. It would never drop facing number one, no matter what I did. I kept turning the pump drive slightly and trying to index it. But it eaither fell right back in the same spot, or it went to what I guess is the next tooth. Pulled the number one plug out and brought it to TDC, and did it again and again. It runs, and doesn't backfire thru the carb... "IF" you shove the vac advance pod all the way against the intake. And even then, you can tell it's just not right, as it has that sound of missing. I rotated the crank and watched the rotor turn. When the rotor is in the center of number one piston, the crank mark is at the last line on the bottom of the timing tang. 15 degress or so out. The thumb over the hole trick couldn't be done, as it was too hot. So we put the compression tester in and used it, and it worked fine.
Float bowl levels were good up front, bad at back bowl. Adjusted it, now ok. HELP!!! Dist just won't go back a tooth.
Also I was wondering if I used the correct mark on the crank gear. The new crank gear had 3 marks on it. I used the circle mark to line it up. Should have used a different mark??? Like the arrow mark, or other mark. Could that be the few degress off issue?
Vacuum is at 10
Geezo, ALL MY WORK!!
Danny
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It always points to number 3.
AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE?
The next cylinder in the firing order is 8 not 3.
It should be either 8 next in line to be fired or 2 previously fired
Firing order
18436572
You had mentioned FORDS earlier...
Remember Chevrolet has odds on one bank and evens on the other unlike FORD which has them in order. 1-4 on one bank and 5-8 on the other.
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What I mean is the rotor is facing cylinder number 3 when I index it, not number one. I can't get it to face number 1. Now that I think of it, maybe I need to rotate back all the plug wires one step. I thought it was supposed to face the number one cylinder. But now I am thinking it needs to face the number position in the cap??... Danny
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YES the rotor must face the #1 plug wire position on the cap and #1 plug wire goes to the front plug on the drivers side of the engine.
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I will go check... D
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Danny...this should be the correct layout.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3cCKir9Qem8/VBYub1KF9AI/AAAAAAAAAf8/N0h12GgbFEo/s748/dist2.jpg)
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I put the wires ONE over CW and it won't even fire :( I shift them one hole to the right and it fires right back up. Meaning CCW one. I Have # 1 there because that is where the rotor points when it's a TDC.?? The picture you are showing has # 1 way over next to the vac pod. The rotor doesn't face there? Looks like my rotor at TDC faces where the # 7 is in the picture. Actually between the 2 and 7.. I feel ignorant for sure. I Guess I will go ahead and move them all over two and see what happens.
Ok, I just put the wires like the picture and it doesn't even fire, more less run. WTF!!!D
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Danny....this is the usual layout for the plug wires. The wires are usually cut to length for this layout. You don't necessarily have to have the #1 plug wire in the position shown.....the #1 plug wire can be anywhere as long as the same firing order is followed, as shown, and the rotor is aimed at the #1 plug wire (at top dead center on the compression stroke)...and also as long as the wires reach the cap slots. Hope this is not confusing.
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I think the advance is coming in too early. I gotta drop in my stock dist.... If it revs up nice and seems to be ok, then I know I need to have the stock dist. reworked AGAIN. Maybe all in at 3,000, instead of 2,400. Update soon... D
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The reason you can't get the distributor to index where it needs to be is the oil pump rod. When you did all the other work you turned the engine over. You now need to orient the pump rod correctly so the rotor will line up where it's supposed to be. You didn't take that deep breathe, did you?
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Rather than type it out, I'm attaching Lars Grimsrud's excellent paper on how to install a Chevy V-8 distributor; follow the instructions and you'll have it running in no time.
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I've been doing this stuff for over 40 yrs, and the techniques I have used were the ways I learned around age 20, they 'worked', and I never had reason to 'find a way to do it better'... :), BUT I want to thank John for attaching Lars' paper. It is EXCELLENT.. and I learned a couple of things that I will use next time I do this job!!
If a 'new Chevy guy' learns and follows the methods described... he should never encounter any insurmountable issues with distributor timing on an old Chevy V8... :)
Danny: READ and HEED Lars' paper...
Thanks again JOHNZ!! :)
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Rather than type it out, I'm attaching Lars Grimsrud's excellent paper on how to install a Chevy V-8 distributor; follow the instructions and you'll have it running in no time.
Good write up on "walking the distributor rotor".....I learned this many years ago by accident and never had to use a long screwdriver to index the oil pump shaft thereafter. Like Lars said, you can walk that rotor around faster than you can find a long screwdriver. The rest of the article was very well written and informative. Have never seen this before but I'm sure going to save it for future reference and sharing.
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Good article, and covers what I was taught to be " cold setting " the timing. I think sometimes it may be hard for people to wrap their brain around rotor placement/ #1 firing position. Danny will get it ,just takes a few times to also develop the "feel". Also check your plugs again as you could have easily fouled one. Then your chasing your tail so to speak.
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Kind of neat that he uses the finger in the hole trick. I thought I invented it.
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We are still talking about distributors right?
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We are still talking about distributors right?
I think we are moving on to a subject I really have expertise in...finally!
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Update... I realized that I was trying to line the rotor up with the # 1 Cylinder, Not on the rotor. I know, not real smart. I found TDC # 1. Dropped the dist. right in and it's pointing to number 1. Amazing how easy that was when ya do it. I installed the wires as described and she fired right up. I keep getting conflicting advice about the dwell setting. Some old timer told me 32 is too high, and go to 29. All the books say 28-32. So I set it at 29.5. Another guy who is the Bowtietuner told me 32 is too high, and go 29. He seems to really know his stuff. Good for now. Timing set, idle set, fuel/air set. Warmed it up and took it for a ride, and it won't pull. Picked up off the line well, but once I get going it starts to hesitate big time. Took it back to the garage, pulled the dist. and changed the rotor over to an old dist. from Kragen that I had laying around. I threw the rotor on and filed the points real quick, dropped it in and it fired right up. Set the dwell at 30 etc. etc. Wanted to see if there was a noticeable difference and there was. It was a MAJOR dog off the line, Had to ride the clutch, but once I got going it pulled like hell, and blasted right up to 80MPH. SO, the original reworked dist. is advancing, but coming in to early. So I need something in between right ? I wish I could just change the springs and weights myself. Anybody know what I need to buy, do I need the weights also? I'll tell ya just pulling on the throttle from outside the car and it revs right up with no hesitation. But I know that old Kragen dist. is not performance oriented. So I need to rework the original dist. Here is what I found from the shop.
Advance starts 11-1200 all in by 2,800 to 3,000. Has 18 degrees mechanical and 10 degrees Vacuum. That's all the info On the tag. And it reads 10 degrees vac on my test gauge. Should I have it come in later, at say 1,500 to 1,700? Or maybe 1,800 to 2,000? Note also, he changed the vacuum pod. It has a number on it that says B26. Anybody know what that is? He saved the original pod and put it in the box.
Almost there guys, thanx for everything so far. Home stretch me in... ;D ;D ... Danny
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Danny,
JohnZ Timing 101 papers and Lars papers on timing and vacuum advance cans helped me out a ton. Lars paper on vacuum advance explains the specs on your B26 can. I'm a novice at this and was able to get everything dialed in with the knowledge and experience they've shared on paper. Springs, weights, vacuum advance limiters, etc. are all explained by two fine writers for anyone to understand. Lars rebuilt a carb for me and sent me many of his papers on request. My '67 327/275 RS probably runs and performs better than the day it left the factory.
Mike
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Danny
That curve sounds good, didn’t here you say what vacuum you get at idle or advance setting without the can. Should be 8*-10* initial, distributor all in by 2800, Didn’t hear what PV’s your running but they should be half the vacuum reading at idle. What PV’s did you install? Also I run a .031 pump shooter (the stock .028 shooter had a lean off-idle transition with 3.5 PVs) 72 primary jets with 76 secondary jets.
Sounds like your distributor is real close now, carburetor needs addressed.
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I never liked that "walking the distributor rotor"..... method because the oil pump drive shaft is held on the oil pump shaft with a plastic/nylon bushing. Those bushings can split in half pretty easy when they are old.
I think the "walking the distributor rotor" method may put the old bushing at more risk. Would not want to risk that when all you have to do is turn the shaft with a long screwdriver to alien it. May take a few tries but I never had a problem with doing it that way. Normally drops in with the first or second try.
on your Z .. check that your points wires don't interfere with the mechanical advance inside the dist
I have seen where an engine would idol fine but when the dist advanced, it would pull on the points and cause a missfire
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If you had back fire up through the carb ,unless it has blowout protection ,power valves will need replaced.
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Ok, all sounds good. I didn't do the rotor skip trick, as it fell right in place both times, so maybe I got lucky. I thought that distributor sounded all set-up correctly. It must be the carb. Cause when I try to adjust the fuel/air in, the idle just keeps climbing up and up, and with the adjuster screws all the way in it idles up to 2,000, but doesn't die. So I couldn't get it correctly adjusted. I bought this carb new off line. I don't know what it has. My original is boxed for now, as I think it needs more throttle bushing work etc, it's binding and not closing all the way.. I will send it out to a pro rebuilder when I get the money. Maybe this winter.
Why did it run better with that crappy distributor ?
Vac at idle is 10. So I will pull this carb and install 4.5's or 5's ?? It probably has the 6.5's in it stock, but not sure. I will go check the Vac at static idle tonight, with the original Dist. installed. I wanna use that one to measure Vacuum again correctly, right ? ... Danny
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Before you tear the carb apart call Holley ,or look up the number to see if it has blow out protection, I don't know what you have. The diaphragms are fragile on the power valves and are junk 1st back fire through the carb. Car will run poorly. Also...check your plugs to make sure you didn't foul one. Again ,car will run poorly.
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Decided to take a look in the carb. I have to know what's in there anyway for proper set-up and diagnosis.
Pump shooter is 25... Primary jets are 68.... PV's are 6.5... What do I order ??? ... Here is the actual carb I got...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330548530059?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Danny
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PV's are 1/2 vacuum at idle : 6.5 would be for 13" at idle. 5.0 for 10"
Jets per overhaul manual: 69 primary/76 secondary's. Leave the squirters alone.
Dwell 28-32 point gap .016 used/.019 new
Plugs AC43 ( cross over to Autolites)
Switch to neoprene metering block gaskets if you have it apart.
Looks like no blow out protection if built 68 spec, but I'd still contact Holley on your carb. What was your timing at full advance (over 3 grand on the tac ) ? Timing tape.
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Dannystarr,
Can you please advise which hardware is original to your car. Post 171 shows your bolts as "E" for the three smaller bolts and "TR" for the long crank bolt. However, post 411 & 412 are showing the smaller bolts as "RBW" and the longer bolt as "W"? I'm into original hardware and both headmarking are correct.
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Plugs AC43
43's are WAY too cold for normal street use, and will result in some degree of fouling; use 45's (or some other brand that crosses to the 45 heat range).
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Agree...just giving him some baselines out of the Overhaul Manual vs. what he may have in there now.
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What kind of compression readings are you getting on this engine?
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Ok, parts ordered. Will try to get it all back together on Sunday and see what happens.
Compression is 155#'s to 175#'s. With # 8 at 180.... Danny
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So I was told there is no 5.0 Power Valves. Only 2.5, 3.5, 4.5 and 6.5... Is it ok to run the 4.5's with 10 inches of vacuum? Danny
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yup..4.5. round down.
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No work on the car today. Plan change... I am on with my Father Friday night to Monday morning. Bummer, was really looking forward to getting some work completed and maybe even go for a ride. But 84 year old Pop's has Dementia and Alzheimer's and can't be left alone. 30 weekends a year GONE! I know it's the right thing to do. It wouldn't be so hard to do, if he would at least remember beating the living hell out of me growing up. But Mom died of Liver Cancer in '04, and he thinks he never touched us kids. It was the thing to do back then I guess. But I digress... Danny
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The idol mixture screws screwed all the way in, make the car race. With both screws screwed all the way in, it should of course die... Right? I decided since it backfired and there is NO PV protection, I purchased the Holley #125-500 kit and installed them both today. Put it in and it still does it. I installed the new 4.5 PV's at the same time. The tech guy I called at Holley tech line said it has to be getting fuel some other way thru the metering block, and that he doesn't know what to do, and to send it back. I still can't diagnose any other problems now. I'm Fu*#ing pissed! .. D
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If you screw IN the idle mixture screws the engine should die. That cuts off fuel on the idle circuit. Screwing them all the way out is adding fuel. You have a vacuum leak some where... The reason is because the leak causes fuel to be pulled through either the boosters or idle circuit. Also if you have the primary throttle blades opened too far and the transition slot is exposed then that too will cause fuel to be pulled into the venturi (I wouldnt think that is the case at this point unless you do not have enough timing and you have to increase the idle to get it to idle at 800-1000. Total timing should be 32-36 degrees. What was the guys name at Holley?
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I can't remember the guys name at Holley. I will get a water bottle with 3 or 4 drops of dawn, shake it up and spray it around the intake. I couldn't find a leak the last time I looked. But I see what you are saying. I noticed the P/B hose is showing some wear. I guess I better eliminate that and R and R it. It must be the cause of previous issues. A lot of people talked about it, but I just couldn't find anything. I will try again... D
Oh, and thank you to everyone....
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Only reason I ask who it was; because I used to work there and would like to know who the knucklehead was that did not want to help diagnose the problem. That is their job.!!. Regardless, dont take this the wrong way but if you can not figure out the problem I would suggest finding someone you can trust to help you get the car dialed in. Some times another perspective or another set of eyes may see something that you might be overlooking. ;)
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I won't take it the wrong way. I get what you are saying. I am not sure yet if I can't figure it out. It started out with 6 problems, and I am slowly pushing thru them. Today I did a water test to search for leaks. Probably going to have to do a smoke test. When the car doesn't run well at an idol, it's hard to distinguish an issue. Here is what I found. Bubbles coming OUT of the smog pump valve after spraying with water. Is this an issue?. I also noticed the part turns inside the outer part. Should it have movement up and down, meaning turning CW or CCW.... Danny
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I would like to just pull all the smog, but I am trying to leave this in the full survivor mode if I can.... D
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Danny;
Have you disconnected the vacuum line from the diverter valve that is the most common leak.
That way you can tune the car and deal with the smog later.
Yes that diverter is leaking, but it's the vacuum leak thats causing engine idle problems, so put a BB in the vacuum line and continue on.
The diverter valve failure is common, I pulled the vanes on my pump its just a great big idler pulley.
BB in vacuum line, #10 screws in the exhaust ports.
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Danny,
I to think vacumm leak. I have seen where if you remove the carb and check both sides of the gasket for marks to insure that your intake manifold flange and your carb base are completely covering all areas might help. When I replaced my Z,s aftermarket intake with the correct unit, I had problems similar to yours. I too worked on the distributer and worked on a carb that needed nothing only to find a leak at the fitting supplying the brake booster. With a noisy engine and fan blowing it can be hard to find. I have also used duct tape to seal all openings to the engine and put canned smoke in the PVC hole and pumped compressed air in the engine. But be easy or you could blow out a gasket and cause an oil leak. Using the compressed air trick with the engine off you even hear the leak.
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Todd,
Yes I have tried pulling the line going into the smog, as that is where I put the vacuum gauge for testing. Where do the #10 Screws go? Picture? With everything plugged, can I still have the belt connected for the visual, or do I need to devain my pump. Is it gonna fight to work and screw anything up?
Kelley, I have had the carb off so many times that I can't imagine it being that. The issue is to consistent, the carb has been off 5 or 6 times, but the problem never changes. I have looked at the gasket each time and it seems to have a sealed ridge all the way around. Which would mean it has been sealed. I will replace the P/B booster hose, as it is original. I remember disconnecting the booster hose at the manifold and plugging the intake fitting, still no change. So don't think it is that Booster fitting. I have been watching videos on youtube about how to smoke test. I would imagine you could do some damage if ya pump the hell out of it. Also you don't wanna create a hole that WASN'T there before. If I do it, I will go easy. Going to shut down and completely disable the smog first. And see where that gets me. ... Danny
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Removing the belt and plugging the vacuum line disables the smog.
Working further with the smog is chasing a ghost.
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OK,,,, So, I got all set up with a brand new tall Carb/Choke cleaner and my super brite mini flashlight. Pushed the car out of the girlfriends garage. Fired it up and began squirting the intake right away before things got too hot. Started in the back, soaked the hell out of it both sides... No change. Jumped quick to the front, same soaking, both sides, no change. Then started on the sides of the intake and Bingo!! ;D Center of intake right side, car started to die. I used a half of a can on one side only, waving it thru those 4 to 6 inches section below the side of the carb non-stop and the engine died. Let it cool off, went to the center on the other side, same outcome. Saturated it just above the valve cover and the engine died. Must really help to pull the fuel in a negative way when it's right next to the side of the carb. Gotta pull the intake.
Solution to ALL problems, not likely. But a heck of a start. I had tightened down those bolts, infact ALL intake bolts got tightened down a while back. And those center ones were the ones that were the loosist. The water just wouldn't quite do it, was to hard to tell. But the carb cleaner did the trick. Won't be today, gotta go finish install of tankless water heater. Maybe Saturday..
Question; I am going to clean-up the intake lightly, and surely can't have it reskinned by Jerry M. or it will look super out of place for a survivor..... But does the intake need to be resufaced a couple thousandths? Will that change the angle of the "seating" area's. Or should I just scotchbrite pad/steel wool it? ... Danny
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"But does the intake need to be resufaced a couple thousandths? Will that change the angle of the "seating" area's. Or should I just scotchbrite pad/steel wool it? ... Danny "
Not even sure if you are asking about the mating surfaces or overall appearance. Personally, I would not even clean the exposed area of intake unless it means raking off some crumbly stuff down in crevices, which may not exist now if you used as much carb spray as you claim. Careful with that spray! An errant spark off the dizzy or backfire and you will be roasting hot dogs and calling the Fire Dept. and Insurance adjuster. VERY FLAMABLE!
Let's keep it simple Danny. You want to have a flat true surface were the intake mates to the head. Lay a straight edge across the length after cleaning off gasket etc...
You could use a feeler like .003 and see if it goes between intake and straight edge. or you can just hold the intake at an angle and see if you can see daylight between S-edge and intake surface.
If warpage detected, then a flat medium coarse file, longer the better can be used lengthwise to intake surface to true up surface. In absense of a file or in addition, use a scrap 2x4 block and coarse paper, like 180 grit. May take some elbow grease, so take your time and take some Advil.
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I mean the mating surface. I will get it all cleaned up underneath and straight edge it left to right and front to back. I have MANY files that were donated to me from a government machinist. And we will leave it at that. I probably have 50 or more! All shapes and sizes. Little baby ones way smaller than a point file, all the way up to the big ones.
I was VERY careful with the carb spray. The whole part of the test took about a minute and a half. After I was done, I touched the exhaust manifold, it was hot, but not smok'in hot. So I felt good about the danger factor being semi-low.
Intake came off with no issues. Just lifted right out. Pictures later....
Can anyone recomend a good well known intake gasket set. Danny
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"Can anyone recomend a good well known intake gasket set.?"
I like Fel-Pro (the blue one) GM also. I may even have a vintage GM set from BITD...will have to dig.
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Danny;
See here: http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=121095&highlight=Intake+Manifold+Gasket+Alignment+Tool
and here:
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=9663.0
Todd
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AWESOME info!... Thanx.. Got area started for plugging off. Then finished plugging holes, and started cleaning. Got one side complete.... Danny
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I see coolant in the lifter valley in the first photo - did you drain coolant before removing the intake manifold?
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I have to say no, I did not. I just pulled the heater hose, and top rad hose. I will get it all back together and run it for 5 minutes, then change the oil and filter. Danny
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Danny, mop up the coolant and drain the oil pan before you start it because coolant mixed with oil is VERY corrosive to the rod & main bearings. George
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OUCH, I didn't know that. I already soaked it all up with rags and paper towels. I bought 4 filters, and 4 - 5 quart vintage car oil containers from Summit. So I knew I was going to change it all 4 or 5 times. But I will change it again before I fire it. Once I feel it is running good, I am taking it to my friends shop and putting it on the lift and pulling the pan. Clean it all up in there.
Should I replace the oil pump with the best high quality one I can find?? Not high pressure, but maybe high volume?? Or just clean pick-up screen and leave the stock one from '68 in there??
Replace the distributor drive and that plastic connection piece that holds it?? Anything else?? ... Danny
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Danny;
Whoa! You start into that bottom end you are opening another can of worms here.
Just my opinion but if it ain't broke why fix it? Is something leaking?
I couldn't find a good new/original high pressure oil-pump. So It required a new pump/pick-up and so on.
Just say'n!
Todd
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Danny;
Whoa! You start into that bottom end you are opening another can of worms here.
Just my opinion but if it ain't broke why fix it? Is something leaking?
I couldn't find a good new/original high pressure oil-pump. So It required a new pump/pick-up and so on.
Just say'n!
X2 and never, never use a high volume pump.
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I agree with above....just pull the drain plug and pour the cheapest oil through the valley to flush out any remaining coolant. As long as you didn't turn the engine over you will be ok...everything is going to drain to the pan. Get rid of it. Did you pick up the Chevy rebuild book I recommended ? Figured somebody was gonna catch the coolant.
Re: My New '68 Camaro Z/28 Butternut Yellow
« Reply #513 on: Today at 03:39:21 PM »
Reply with quote
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Quote from: TODD on Today at 02:41:44 PM
Danny;
Whoa! You start into that bottom end you are opening another can of worms here.
Just my opinion but if it ain't broke why fix it? Is something leaking?
I couldn't find a good new/original high pressure oil-pump. So It required a new pump/pick-up and so on.
Just say'n!
X2 and never, never use a high volume pump. Ok as long as your using a higher capacity pan with kickouts. If not you'll suck the sump dry at high R's.
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Has anyone told you to slow down and take a deep breather yet?
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Has anyone told you to slow down and take a deep breather yet?
I have.
Only pour a quart or 2 through the valley and let it drain. Pumps tend to last..still running my Melling in the race engine, not going to tell you how old it is, but it was well in spec. so the engine builder asked really why change it ? Bad bearings are the culprit for low oil pressure in old Chevy's. Take a break from it. Mines off the lift right now and covered up in the corner, other priorities. mostly building an Engineer right now ! (son's in college) ,and keeping my daily's in tip top shape. Hang loose dude!
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Ok, appreciate all the advice. I will drain the oil, and leave the plug out and pour some cheapy oil all around and thru the system and flush it all down. I don't wanna get into the bottom end at all. Just wanted to clean the pick-up screen. Someone here mentioned that I should drop the pan and do that. And yes, I do see a small leak at the front seal at timing cover/pan. So might as well pull it down and clean it all up, and seal it nice. I hate leaks. I was just wondering if I should replace anything, but I won't. I am not currently steased, and having some fun cleaning and prepping for re-assembly. I enjoy it when things are going well.. ;D ;D
Here is my cleaning progress...
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More cleaning, since pictures, drained all coolant.
Drained the oil pan and removed the filter. Left plug out of pan and bought a 5 quart cheapy oil and poured it all thru the valley and watched it all come out the bottom. Should be nice now. Cheap investment at $19. She is ready to go... D
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Intake cleaned, one bad spot from corrosion in intake. Gonna have to put some extra goop there...
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Original Gaskets, front one with paint
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I made my own guide studs. Bought stainless steel and cut the heads off. Cleaned up and cut-in slot. Friday starts reassembly. Danny
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More guides, will drop right down & line up perfectly without gasket moving. Thanx for the idea, I was gonna use wood dowels... Danny
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last one
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I was surprised and somewhat bummed that the intake had no date. I read along time ago that some got dates, some didn't. Oh well, no big deal I guess. Just fun to gather date info. ... Danny
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Did you remove the tin splash pan on the bottom of the intake - the date is cast in the area under it that can't be seen unless the pan has been removed - and as far as I have seen they all have it cast there!
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I forgot about that. I for some reason thought it was in another location. Maybe I'll pull the little pins and check it out. Thanx... D
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I forgot about that. I for some reason thought it was in another location. Maybe I'll pull the little pins and check it out. Thanx... D
Danny, the date code is probably hiding under the oil splash shield on the bottom of the intake.
Paul
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Make sure when you drive the pins back they go in tight. You don,t want one to fall out.
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If you have the intake off anyway - its not such a bad idea to remove the pan off from the bottom side just to clean all of the crap that might have accumulated up under it anyway - regardless of whether you are looking for a cast date or not.
And as Kelly stated you want to make sure the knurled pins aren't at al loose, so by hammering the metal around the original holes a bit smaller in addition to staking them in place with some good quality Loctite or Permatex product it should assure that they won't come loose..
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Well got it all apart. Pulled the pan under intake. Tapped a wide screwdriver in on each corner and just turned it sideways and they popped up. Pan was pretty clean, and so was the underside of intake. Took pictures and reinstalled pa. Cleaned holes with carb cleaner, blew them with air. Filled holes with Permatex Ultra Black. Then put a small amount under each head and knocked them in gently until they bottomed out. I feel confident they are in for good. Found some numbers...
4. 18. 68 = April 18th 1968. Which should be ok for this car as EVERYTHING is May.
4 583 Don't know what that is, Part Number?
Then also a row of numbers and some proof marks? 10 / 20 / 30 / 40 / 45 / 50 / 60 / 70
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Underside of intake and pan
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Alignment pins adjusted to proper height
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Intake dry fitted and here is the number on the smog pump. What is the break down of these numbers?
13581Y
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Reassembly Prep... Got every surface wiped down one more time with Lacquer thinner. Applied small beads of Permatex around water holes, set gaskets, applied a bead around water jackets on top of gaskets. Ran 3/8ths high bead at the front and back. And a small mound at all 4 corners. Applied some to each bolt threads and installed. Started by running all of them in until they touches. Then pulled my alignment pins. Word of advice, do not make them out of stainless. Would have been nice to get them with the telescopic magnet. Wrong stainless, non magnetic. Started in the center and worked my way out at 15 #'s, then 20, then 25. Bouncing back and forth, middle to back, then middle to front. Until all were at about 27 #'s.... Danny
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Assembly lubed poured around and in lifters
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Back together progress
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Assembled and ready to add oil and water
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Got it all ready. Unplugged the coil wire for 3 - 30 second crank overs. Plugged the wire in and fired it up. NO CHANGE... RUNS EXACTLY LIKE CRAP LIKE IT DID BEFORE I STARTED?? :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
I set the timing with vac. advance hose pulled and plugged, set dwell, timed it, and set the idle at 850 to 950. Tried adjusting the fuel/air mixture and it was better it seemed, but not right and still raced up the idle with screws all the way in. Tried giving it some gas and it goes up to around 2500 and starts shaking violently just like before. I don't know what the hell. I can't spend anymore time on it. Gotta walk away. WAY TOO many personal and work projects have been neglected for this car. Oh well guys, no ride for me. I tried... D
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I think if you could borrow a known working carb from someone that would be my next try. Some carb rebuilders use test motors to check their builds before sending to you. We have used a couple here on the east coast and when it comes back they say only adjust the idle and that is all it took.
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I thought about that. I don't have anybody. My buddy with the 69 Z/28, his carb has been sitting for 6 years! I don't wanna get into that. You got one to send me that you know is ok? Anybody have one they can send me for a try? Then at least I know where I am at. It would only take a few days turn around. Then if it works I am all set, and I will shoot it right back. It really is the easiest thing to try next. I pay S/H/I both ways of course, and insure it for $2,500. And any rental fee's...I can't put ALOT more time in this, but a carb would literally be just a few minutes.... Danny
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How about I jump in on this bandwagon.....
I believe you live in Sonoma? I live in Petaluma and work in Napa so I pass your way twice a day. I would be happy to pull the carb off my '69 Z/28 (which runs superb) and bring it over to your place for a quick experiment. It's an OEM Holley replacement carb that worked absolutely perfect right out of the box.
Any day after work is fine with me - I typically get off at 3PM. FYI - Won't be available this Friday or the weekend since I'll be pit crewing at the Vintage races at Sears Point.
Let me know if I can be of help.... Charlie
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How about I jump in on this bandwagon.....
I believe you live in Sonoma? I live in Petaluma and work in Napa so I pass your way twice a day. I would be happy to pull the carb off my '69 Z/28 (which runs superb) and bring it over to your place for a quick experiment. It's an OEM Holley replacement carb that worked absolutely perfect right out of the box.
Any day after work is fine with me - I typically get off at 3PM. FYI - Won't be available this Friday or the weekend since I'll be pit crewing at the Vintage races at Sears Point.
Let me know if I can be of help.... Charlie
We have a great bunch of guys, don't we? That is what makes us special, here. We really have a desire to see us all exceed and get our cars done. I am proud to be affiliated with such a great group. God bless! ...and a personal thanks Charlie on behalf of all and good luck at the races. B.
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Charlie, you are awesome! I just worked 11.5 hours out in Valley Ford and stopped at my girlfriends to get a water on the way home. Thought I would check in on my guys at CRG, and low and behold there is help on the way. I read your post and my nose started to burn a little and my eyes started to well up a little. Anticipation of us doing this carb swap/check has got me excited to say the least. This really is a hell of a group of guys. You guys checked on me with concern when I was going through treatment more than my 30 and 40 year friends!! Anyway, thanx everyone... And sorry if I have made any of you frustrated with my lack of knowledge. I can tell ya this, I am getting pretty darn good at it. I had no help at all, and was kinda proud of myself doing that intake R&R.
Charlie, I will send ya a message with my contact info. .... Danny
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How about I jump in on this bandwagon.....
I believe you live in Sonoma? I live in Petaluma and work in Napa so I pass your way twice a day. I would be happy to pull the carb off my '69 Z/28 (which runs superb) and bring it over to your place for a quick experiment. It's an OEM Holley replacement carb that worked absolutely perfect right out of the box.
Any day after work is fine with me - I typically get off at 3PM. FYI - Won't be available this Friday or the weekend since I'll be pit crewing at the Vintage races at Sears Point.
Let me know if I can be of help.... Charlie
Great gesture!!
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Charlie is stopping by tom. mid afternoon and we are going to do some diagnostic work. THEN we can start swapping parts if need be. Getting excited again.
Question, you all have seen my car top to bottom, front to back... Are my spoilers factory? When I turn the key the lid pops up, and most of the time goes ALL the way up. I have had other cars that when you turn the key, the trunk lid just stays closed. If it IS factory, what is the code for that? Shouldn't it be on my POP, or warranty booklet? The Rally stripes stop at spoiler bottom, and are NOT painted on trunk lid... Danny
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Are the trunk torsion rods the same diameter?
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I was just remembering that Kurt. I looked and they both look the same to me. I will mic them to be sure, but they look the same to me by just bending down and looking in. And shouldn't the spoiler be the short version? Up until march of '69 I thought ALL spoilers were short. There is also the FRONT spoiler. Could they both have been added at a dealer, D80? Paint is masked around the emblem. Danny
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Painted around the emblem is good. Most people don't put the emblem back on. Mine has factory spoilers & when you pop the lid, it floats about 4 to 6". The rods on mine are 2 different sizes. The front spoiler was part of the package. There should be screw holes in the valance.
1969 with a short spoiler mean it has a 1968 spoiler on it or it's about 2" narrower that the back of the car....Joe
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Have you checked that the heat riser valve is working? If the car has been sitting for a few years, the valve could have rusted shut, and not be opening when it's supposed to. Probably wouldn't cause idle troubles, but could affect higher rpm performance.
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I was just remembering that Kurt. I looked and they both look the same to me. I will mic them to be sure, but they look the same to me by just bending down and looking in. And shouldn't the spoiler be the short version? Up until march of '69 I thought ALL spoilers were short. There is also the FRONT spoiler. Could they both have been added at a dealer, D80? Paint is masked around the emblem. Danny
Danny, spoiler car had two different size torsion rods and non-spoiler cars had the same diameter. What is interesting is normally the cars that the lid just sits there when you turn the key with a spoiler clearly indicates the car has the same size rods and was not originally equipped with a spoiler. But yours pops right up! They are somewhat similar but are different in size. Check them rascals to know for sure. Hope the carb swap with Charlie gives some clues to the issue.....
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Hey guys, first off the torsion bars for the trunk lid are 2 different sizes. Charlie and I checked today. The one with the rubber booty is for sure bigger in diameter. Also Charlie noted there was NO wear marks at the primary holes for the emblem mounting. Perfect paint, no nut marks etc. around those punched holes. All this along with the stripes paint add up to a D80 option Baby! So, cool, I have a couple factory spoilers. Yea ;D ;D
Heat riser is free and rocking back and forth during use.
Moving on to more important things... We did some checking on wiring and things. Front harness has been messed with. Wires cut, spliced... Going to have to replace the front harness. Resistor wire gone, hence that porcelain ballast resistor. We bypassed ignition main wiring and a couple others. Carb swap is happening middle of next week. Just narrowing as we go. There was talk of a possible flat cam lobe, but we have other things to check first. I am being patient and greatly appreciating Charlie's knowledge, and sharing it along with his time.
Chick, I will check what you asked ASAI can ....Danny
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I was sleepy last night, but I meant ceramic resistor. So I need to replace the front harness with hopefully an NOS one, or if I have to, aftermarket.... D
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with all the timing chain slack maybe you have a bent pushrod... an exhaust on a cyl wouldn't change your compression test but would make it pop through the carb.
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I checked all the pushrods. I rolled all of them on a piece of glass, and they seemed ok. I assume when you say an exhaust... You mean an exhaust valve. And Charlie was saying the same thing. That there could be a bent valve, or a cam lobe partially flat compared to others. Next Wed. we will install his carb, then his distributor with electronic ignition, then dial indicator on each rocker to see if one is not rising as high as the others....After all that I am lost. WAIT, what am I talking about, I AM LOST RIGHT NOW! ;D .... Danny
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Since you live near Marin......there's a mechanic (Steve) who runs Northgate Automotive in San Rafael. He works on many classics, including lots of Camaros. May be worth it to talk to him.
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Thanx for the info... Always good to have another source of knowledge. I will see what happens after Charlie and I do our thing. He is super sharp, and I am confident he will solve my issue. Don't wanna bother anybody until I have to... D
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Do things one at the time. I think Charlies carb is going to be your trick.
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His carb works superb, so we will see. I for some reason think it's the distributor or an intermittent coil. But again, what do I know... D
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I'm hoping the carb does the trick, but if it doesn't than we move on to the next item until we find the issue. Like you all say, one thing at a time.
Danny - went through about 50 of my Camaro harnesses and didn't find an ignition harness that would be worth using on your car as it is. We can still find your problem regardless of the condition of your harness. That can be resolved later.
And Steve from Northgate Automotive is a great guy who is extremely knowledgeable! I've known him for decades (I'm actually from Marin) and he calls me now and then whenever he needs some help on Corvettes and muscle cars (or some correct OEM parts).
FYI - the practice sessions at Sonoma Raceway (Sears Point for us old locals) were a blast today! Didn't break the Corvette, which is always good.....
Charlie
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Well Charlie, glad ya had some fun out there. I would go but this is a 'On with my Dad" weekend. And I have too much personal stuff I gotta get going on. And not real thrilled about 95 to 100 degree heat. It hit 100 even today at the stroke of 1600 hours. Thanx for looking, and I appreciate the effort on the harness. Talk to ya Wed. mid afternoon for the big swapping's.... Danny
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Charlie made it by. We checked many things. It turned out to be the distributor. He dropped in an untouched unit out of one of his Z/28's and it fired right up and ran good. With his carb on it never ran this good. We also left one of his coils installed for now. However my carb is still screwed. It ran real good an no more backfiring with the new dist. installed. But when we put my carb back on it still runs real rich. He took his carb back, but left the dist. and coil in for me. I am kinda right back where I started. ALL that time and money spent searching and it turns out it was the newly rebuilt dist. AND the carb of course. One of the ONLY good things is I got to meet Charlie, AND find that timing gear plastic tooth missing mess. So that bad dist. made me look around a bit. But I sure wasted a lot of time and money. I learned some things for sure. Now I gotta decide what to do. And where to send things, or hand deliver them.
Can anyone tell me if the dist. drive gear has to be installed a certain way? Can you just put it back any ole' way and press in the roller pin and run it?
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Danny glad you got some things figured out, and know how to proceed. The distributor drive gear has a small drill mark on it that points in the same direction as the rotor tip. If that is not in-line it will throw off your timing. Good luck. George
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George, you got time to post some pictures of that? D
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Not a great picture but I think it will show you. George
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Well I just looked at it and it looks like it lines right up. Was hoping that was the problem. :( I wonder what else it could be. Danny
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Danny,
If I remember right you are using a replacement carb you bought. Think they will take it back? Also to get you running until your original parts are done right you could go by O,Reilys and pickup one of there 89.00 or 99.00 buck HEI,s. When you get things ironed you could get 50.00 for it at a swap meet. I think they also have rebuilt point distributers ( cast iron and not correct) but a friend loaned me one when I was sorting out one of my cars. It is not the correct stuff but I think you want ride for now. This might get you on the road to see what else you need to do to the car.
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I talked to the guy at Specialty Parts Direct and explained the sitch. There is a company that makes these for them, apparently not Holley. He has a guy that checks them over and then he will get back to me. So I sent it out yesterday. Gonna take 5 days to get there, and probably a few more days for diagnosing and resolution. In the mean time, I will decide where to send my original carb for total internal rebuild.
Charlie is going to let me keep his dist. in for a while, and mentioned he won't have the car on the road for 2 or 3 months. However, I don't wanna hold him up in the future. So I will get that dist. hopefully fixed by then. It's all about the carb{s} right now. AND CASH FLOW to make it all happen. Danny
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Danny,
Contact allamericancarburetor.com or call 904 215 6790. They have done several for my brother. They look great and work great. Less than $300.00 on the last one but it needed extra parts. They test run them on an engine before sending it back.
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Thanx, I am thinking two ways on that. Do I want a big time company to pump it out? Do they do hundreds of different carbs and have updated equipment.? Do they know all the in's and out's of performance carbs? Or do I want a small shop in Lost Springs, Wyoming that does 3 or 4 different performance 60's carbs ONLY with an old timer teaching his kid the ropes, but has older equipment and is a bit out of touch? Don't wanna over analyze it, but I have spent over $1,200 on carbs, and STILL not driving my new car... :( :( Danny
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Why not call or message Eric at:
Carburetor rebuild & restoration
Engine & Driveline parts & services
www.vintagemusclecarparts.com
sales@vintagemusclecarparts.com
Temporary hours: MWF 10:00-4:00 Eastern
(937) 836-5927
He apparently does amazing work and is often complimented by many who frequent the Yenko Supercar Registry site... http://www.yenko.net/
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Thanx, good to know. I do like the idea of the carb test run on an engine before shipping back. Maybe Eric does the same thing? I will touch base with him when I get a pocket full of cash. Danny
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While the car is not mobile, I thought I would work on a story board. Kurt has helped me some grammatically and with a couple codes. Also shortened some things up as it was too "Wordy".. I thought I would run it by everyone before I make it happen and print it out. Any suggestions?... Danny
1968 Camaro Z/28 "Survivor"
Original “Butternut Yellow" Paint
55,000 Documented Original Miles
Mileage on Service Work Receipt Dated August 15th 1975 = 52,347.6
Driven Only 2,652.4 Miles in 40 Years!
Includes: Original Warranty Booklet & Protect -O-Plate
Original Cowl Trim Tag
Original Factory Installed 302 MO Engine
Original Factory Installed Muncie M21 Transmission
Original Factory Installed Rear Axle Assembly - Code BU 3:73 Positraction
Original Factory Installed Interior
Options Include: * Z/28 - “Special Performance 302”
* M21 Muncie 4-Speed Transmission
* G80 Positraction Axle
* J50/52 Power Front Disc Brakes
* U69 AM/FM Push Button Radio
* U80 Rear Deck Speaker
* N34 Walnut Woodgrain Steering Wheel
* N33 Tilt Steering Column
* D80 Front & Rear Air Spoiler
* B93 Door Edge Guards
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While the car is not mobile, I thought I would work on a story board. Kurt has helped me some grammatically and with a couple codes. Also shortened some things up as it was too "Wordy".. I thought I would run it by everyone before I make it happen and print it out. Any suggestions?... Danny
How about... "Original California black & yellow license plates" ?
Paul
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Interesting distributor not functioning, got any pics of the springs and cam weights?
That's your original distributor right? Wonder if it is a bad breaker plate ground or something?
Pull that thing apart they are simple to rebuild.
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Paul,
They are original CA plates, but if you notice, it is 1969. I don't think these are the original plates. I think when Richard Ward Anderson, the second owner purchased the car around March of '69, he got new plates with it. As they start with a "Y" ... And actually I am completely full for one page. I worked on it for hours, and you can't even add a period ;D .. With the pictures and emblems there is no more room...
TODD,
I have never pulled one apart, but I am sure there isn't much to it. Remember it was advance starts at 11-1200 and all in by 2800-3000. Has 18 mechanical and 10 vacuum. You would think they would have found an issue when it was in the distributor machine. It had a lot of play, so I see little brass spacers/washers in it. I don't know, maybe I will watch a couple videos on how to do it. I do have an extra 532 point plate assembly with the shaft and all. But I think you are right, it has to be something shorting out. The problem is these companies take on too much work, and blow thru stuff to fast. I have had maybe 2 or 3 call backs in 25 years! Ya have to be able to turn work down sometimes, so you can put out consistent quality work. I have passed all State and Federal Inspections. I have worked on 10 million dollar homes with live baby Dolphins in the swimming pool! Never had a problem. Simple distributor that they have done 1000 times, and it's not correct. I need somebody with a good updated machine that rolls up to 6K and has a recent calc inspection for accuracy.
I am more concerned about the carb right now. But while it's down I'll check it out and see what I find. I'll post pictures as I go.
I also need someone that can rebuild my original Master, and both front 4 piston calipers in BRASS. Power Brake Exchange is about an hour and 30 minutes from me, but only uses stainless. I guess that's the more of a show car thing. It's all about what happens with the carb thing. I can't afford to have all this done right now. As long as Charlie lets me keep the Dist. for a couple months, maybe I can get some Winter CA drives in on nice days... Danny
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I also need someone that can rebuild my original Master, and both front 4 piston calipers in BRASS.
White Post sleeves with brass, has done lots of work for me over the last 20 years. (www.whitepost.com)
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no leaks over the winter with the 4 piston?
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Yup, being a NOR car, the plates were probably from when the owner moved to CA.
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Some fun Interesting dates... I don't think anybody moved to Cali. I think it was either overseas, or ordered overseas by a serviceman and stayed here?. Then traded in after about 18K miles. Then the second owner seen the ad in the paper and bought it.
NCRS says Original Production Date = 6/4/68 ... Danny
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Temp Registration ID windshield tag for Owner in 4/12/69. Hence the second owner getting Plates that start with a "Y"... For '69.. Danny
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I was told I should not have this sheet, and that the customer doesn't get this. Is this a BS story or what?.. D
Also envelope it was sent in... Post Makrked 4/14/69
Date Car was first put into service = 6/18/68
This has date vehicle acquired = 3/26/69
Date of Application = 4/12/69
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The ad from from Fremont Chevrolet in the "The Argus" Newspaper Saturday March 1st. 1969
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Ditto on White Post for brakes. They did the master cylinder on my vette. It leaked after about 8 or 10 years. I called and told them yes I did have the receipt. Did again for free.
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The ad from from Fremont Chevrolet in the "The Argus" Newspaper Saturday March 1st. 1969
That's Central Chevrolet in Fremont! ;)
Paul
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You are correct. Closed down now. I think I read a few years ago. D
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Story board complete. Turned out pretty good... 18" X 24"... Gets the point across.. Had fun designing it ;D Danny
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more
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Danny, Very nice, I like the layout.
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Is that mounted on plastic or aluminum?
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Thanx, I had American flags in there, and "Made in USA" and the like. It started looking to gaudy and full. So cleaned it up a bit. Kurt was a big help on info, and making sure I didn't pile on too much obvious info. If you are familiar with these cars, and can read fairly well... it takes about 60 seconds to read. It is mounted on plastic poster board about a 1/4" thick. I didn't think of aluminum. I have never seen that done. Is that better in wet weather during display? ... Danny
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I put one together for my wife for shows with the Mustang, and it was mounted on poster board. It has developed wrinkles along the edges. I am thinking of doing a new one mounted on aluminum. I think the coast at my local shop is around $100. But its $80 for plastic, so I was just curious if you liked the final product or if you would have gone with aluminum if you had the option.
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i work in a print shop, im going to have a board done similar to Danny`s. i figure the cost of ink is something like 50 cents to a dollar. we have several substrates to chose from. im planning on 1/4" plexiglass for mine. i might be able to do freebies for anybody interested but you would have to send a file with all the info. that way i can just send the complete file to the digital printer and bingo !!! we have thin aluminum sheets, 1/4" plastic, 3/16" paper/foam artist board and many more types to chose from. still planning on the layout for mine. oh, the ink is UV so should last many years even if exposed to the sun. we also have digital laser cutters and routers so the edges can be rounded or square with no burrs or rough edges.
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I think it turned out ok and seems to be attached well. I have never done one before. I guess if I knew of the aluminum I might look into it for sustainability and the like. I will keep an eye on it. I won't be at any shows until next year in spring. It's in a large bag lightly wrapped up and in the trunk of the car in a Northern CA garage. Now that I think of it, it gets pretty cold in their, I think I will put it in the girlfriends house in the closet. I did most of the work so the cost was $35. For that price I can do one a year for the next 10 years ;D
Cam69aro,
What a nice selection of products. Mine is a patented design, so I don't wanna see any similarities. LOL! I get to be the first freebie recipient? ;) Check it all out and see what you think what would be the best longest lasting nicest looking set-up and post it here. I am curious about all the options. I have to say, I probably spent 4 hours on mine total. Revisiting it and making changes. It's not an easy 15 minute project. Danny
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That looks very nice Danny. Very professional
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I've seen the boards blow over and hit the car. It put a nice ding in a newly restored Z. :(
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Danny,
im just going to make the guys in the pre-press dept. do all the photoshop work etc. i`ll just give them a rough text sheet and lay-out plan. they are pretty creative and it`s slow time at work until about the new year. im thinking about the 1/4" clear plexy, maybe do the back side glossy black with the text on the front side. i thought aluminum but not sure, it looks cool with the brushed finish. we have some nice size aluminum sheets left over from the Polaris sports job we did. Indian motorcycles used some cool veneered plywood and we have some of that too. so just tire kicking but will post when i get it done, hoping in the next few weeks. very nice looking display board Danny, i`ll make sure not to copy yours to the T, lol :)
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6667,
Thanx, like I mentioned , it was fun. I think I will always have mine under the front of the hood sitting on the Rad. support. And just bring the hood down on it. No way to blow away. I like it up high like that, instead of on the ground next to the car. I have also seen them in big plastic holders next to the car. But still, hard to read.
Cam69aro, I am sure you will get plenty creative. I have seen them with way to many pictures all at a bastard angle all over the board. Lots of print color changes and font sizes. Not for me.. D
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Had a Holley expert come by today. He had me mount up my original carb and said it does have some issues, and a mind of it's own. He also mentioned that it has holes drilled in the butterflies. One little hole in each about an 1/8th". I think only in the secondary's. Is this stock? He tried to adjust it and it was going all squirrely. He took it with him back to Napa, CA. So now I have my original 15 miles away, and my aftermarket one in Florida being checked over by Specialty Parts Direct Carb issue checker guy. Maybe one will come back and I can drive the car in the next 10 days. Don't wanna get TOO happy yet... ;D... D
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no not stock, this was actually a tuning tip per Holley to help smooth the idle with longer duration cams vs. opening the throttle plates more having to idle at say 1200.
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So do we leave it like that for the 302? Is it a good thing to have done?... D
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So do we leave it like that for the 302? Is it a good thing to have done?... D
No, it's not - it's a Band-Aid, only necessary for use with really radical aftermarket cams; no need for it on a stock Z/28.
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Ok, so the guy that is working on the carb said he has about 250 carbs. And a few of them are 4150's. So I will have him rob parts and see if he can make it right. Maybe just change out the whole base plate for now. Thanx to you all once AGAIN! All American Carb wants $250 WITHOUT any finish work. So they are next I guess. ... D
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Danny,
I may have some extra butterflies if you can"t find any. I can look tomorrow and see. Let me know. Jim
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Danny;
No! Don't change out the base, original bases are non-existent!
If you want to have some new plates fine but that base is rarer than hens teeth!
Todd
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Jim,
Thanx, I will call the guy tom. and see what he says. I think we would just change some things to get me going. I would never dump the base. Remember, the goal is to just be able to drive it. I will get things all figured out over the winter. I want to show it as a survivor next year. But got a long way to go, and many parts to rebuild. Danny
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Have him solder the 1/8 holes shut.
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Have him solder the 1/8 holes shut.
thought about that today, you beat me. have him check the base plate for warping ,also the metering blocks. Think I mentioned this.
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I have some good news. My original carb is going thru the rebuild motions and getting close. Bob the Holley guy said he had extra butterflies. So he cleaned them up and installed them. Got the ones with the holes out of there. He also bushed the throttle shaft and installed the Holley #125-500 Kit. Which is the power valve saver. Comes with 2 springs, two balls, and two keepers. Also the bit and stop for the bit. He said he will check for warpage etc. He is going to test it on his neighbors '68 Camaro. So hoping to get it back soon, I am thinking by the weekend, or on it.
The after market 4150 I had bought, I sent it down to Florida. That is the testing place carbs with issues go. At least from Specialty Parts Direct. Here is his latest email.
Hello Dan,
The carb has been corrected and is ready to ship back. Can you send me your UPS address?
Craig did experience the problem and ended up finding the holes in the front metering block that supply fuel for the idle were too large and causing the carb to run too rich. They were like a jet so he replaced them with the correct size and made all the other adjustments. He then ran the carb for a while again and said all is good.
Thanks,
Mark
So that should be here Friday or Sat. So after weeks and weeks with no good carb.... I will have both back probably with-in a day of each other. Go figure... Maybe I will be able to take a spin this weekend... Danny
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Well slog with the Giants taking a 3-2 lead in the series, it sounds like good times ahead!
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Well that means to work hard over a period of time. And the "Giants" and I have been doing that.. I had a chance to go, but when I found out the place where I usually park, went from $35 to $150... I said forget it. That buys a lot of Carb parts LOL ;D.. D
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"slog", I think I meant to say "well said". Thats a killer on parking, what about the train??? Thats what me and my wife would take to games. Only like $7 round trip from San Carlos. Man I would be there if I had a deal on the tickets!!! one more go Peavy, another world series championship on the road, GO GIANTS!!
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I don't think there is a train across the Golden Gate. Not that I know of anyway :D ... My buddy had a ticket in the nose bleed seats for $500. Never been to a World series game before. Some day maybe. Just not a big enough fan to pay gas down and back, bridge, parking, food, drink, ticket. Probably have to buy everyone food, and I eat WAY to much at games. I would say about $800 to $1000. Too rich for my blood... D
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Understood, that is a lot of Camaro money right there. Well I think things are going to take a change for the better with you carb situation, and I am excited for you to get it bolted on, and mash that pedal... :o
I am sure other things may present themselves as needing to be checked out or out of tune, but some of that is the fun for us Camaro owners. Good job sticking with it.. 8)
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Yes, thanx everyone for offering to look for parts and keeping me in the good spirit mode. I am really getting excited about getting these carbs back. I will test them both and see which one performs the best. Hope it's the original so I can leave it on and call it good. I will test it last just in case. The Aftermarket unit will be here next Monday. And the other one being worked on in Napa, no idea yet? Will keep ya all posted... D
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I was just thinking... Could this Cam have been changed in the past? Could I have Hydraulic Lifters? Guess I should have checked when I had the intake off eh.. I adjusted them as per JohnZ doing the cold 26 degree adjustment... Would that work if it was hydraulic? Is that a good way to determine. I just didn't here that sewing machine sound when I had it running days ago. Danny
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I have one rocker arm locking nut staying loose, and doesn't feel right and snug like the rest. Would like to get a whole new set and start out fresh. I think they are 3/8ths X 24. If so, where do I get them? Danny
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The Chevrolet dealer, and probably any parts store for aftermarket ones.... and they may all be made by the same company (Dorman?)..
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If you have a hydraulic cam, it is best to adjust them while running. I have a hydraulic roller cam in my 64 C/10, and have a cut out valve cover to do the job.
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If you have a hydraulic cam, it is best to adjust them while running. I have a hydraulic roller cam in my 64 C/10, and have a cut out valve cover to do the job.
I still have the little keepers I used to put on our L78 Nova to adjust the valves when running back in the 70's & 80's.
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I have to find out how to tell FIRST. I also have some valve covers I cut out with a plasma cutter and those little cheapy tin keepers. But how do I tell?... Danny
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If you can push the pushrod down when the lifter is on the base circle of the cam (collapsing the lifter) and it feels springy then its a hyd. If not then its a solid. Base circle of the cam is when both the intake & exhaust valves are closed.
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You can't tell by the sound they make while running? It should be pretty obvious, if not it's likely they were changed.
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What are those little baby screws on the top of the Holley near the horn rounding edge? There is some little white goop covering them. One on each side. Are they some sort of bowl adjustment. Do we touch those?... Danny
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What are those little baby screws on the top of the Holley near the horn rounding edge? There is some little white goop covering them. One on each side. Are they some sort of bowl adjustment. Do we touch those?... Danny
those are air bleed adjustment screws. they are factory preset and should not have to be adjusted.
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Found out Am/FM radio works after all. But back speaker not sounding. I tried the knobs behind each front knob but no go. Is there another trick. I thought those back knobs were for tone/bass and front/rear fader. Maybe I better check connections underneath and in trunk. But was just wondering... Danny
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Discovered my wiper motor works on both high and low. Just needed a little help to get it going. Now works great. It is a 5045441. But it has a green stamp on the side that looks like 122683. Is that the correct number? Does anybody know what that stamp indicates? Is it Julian Dating for Tuesday April 30th of '68 - shift 3? Cause that would line up well with car. Danny
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Got Holley back. He cleaned corrosion in needle and seat. Re-jetted it, changed a couple springs, changed out white cam gear, bushed both sides of throttle rod, installed the Holley 125-500 PV protection front and back, changed butterflies and tested on his neighbor's '68. Called me and I went and picked it up. He spent hours and hours on it but only charged me $200. Now the throttle closes all the way and doesn't get hung up. I installed it and it runs great. Pumped it 3 or 4 times and fired it off. Choke works good and kicks right down after warm. Drove the car 200 miles and it is nice and tight. No rattles or noise. Sure can tell with only 55 thousand original miles. I reset the valves until there was a light drag at 26 in and out, but 27 would not slide in with same amount of force. Installed all new rocker arm bolts. It runs great with NO noise at all like the sewing machine sound you all were talking about. I was told by the Dist. rebuild guy that the back fire is because I did not set the initial at 18 degrees. I have it at 8. So Charlie is coming over today after work at 3:30 and we are going to drop it back in and set it up and see what happens. Maybe it will be fine at 15 or 16 or less. We will see.. She pulls pretty good with minimal throttle. What a kick in the butt it is to drive. You can watch the gas gauge go down on a long haul at 60 MPH. I installed an Auto Meter tach on top of the column. It is a little guy that fits up there nice and is out of the way. Now I can see where I am at. I am not over revving this engine by any means. I have not yet and don't want to. Nothing over 4 or 5, as I don't want any issues. My days of taking these engines to 7K RPMS are over for now. I don't have 10K for a rebuild ;D Just wanna drive it and enjoy it.
Another update, pictures and a video while driving coming soon. Thanx to all of you... Danny
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Danny Great to hear your engine is purring and you got a fun drive in the Z, cant wait to see pictures & video. George
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Wtg, another one back on the road.... ;)
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Congratulations Danny! Persistence pays off! :)
Paul
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Thanx everyone. Just put another 85.5 miles on Raquel Sunday. Having some fun for sure.
Here is updated pictures of paint treating process. Got part of the hood done, and side of left fender. Takes a lot of elbow grease and patience/persistence. Can't wait to have the whole car done during winter.
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more paint
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Picked up and installed a nice Auto Meter Tachometer. Got it all wired up and it works great! Needle doesn't jump all around. It's a little guy so as not to impede on existing gauges. I think it's like 3.25" or so. I can see everything well. Danny
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Hey Danny, the hard work has paid off, thanks for posting the pics of the paint, what a difference! (from brown to yellow)
Are you putting some kind of clear over the paint you have cleaned as to prevent it from darkening up again?
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I am waxing as I go. I don't think it will ever get like that again, not that bad anyway. It still has little curly q's of rust in the paint everywhere, but if you try to get those out, the paint will be gone. So gotta leave some remnants of it all. Then I wax it to help protect it. Gotta go... D
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Had to run out the door... So yes, I am not ready to do a big wet sand thing and a couple 3 coats of clear. I may do that after the whole car is treated. I am not planning on ever restoring this car. I think I'd like to leave this one as is, and maybe someday buy one already restored... Danny
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Got to the other side of the hood. It needs one more treatment in 2 or 3 patch areas. But I think the hood and top of fenders are just about done..
Question/Opinions wanted... No. 1 or No. 2 ?
No. 1 I was going to leave the cowl panel as is, to show a before and after. Tell people the whole car used to look like that. Stupid idea, cause everybody knows what it probably use to look like so just pull it and treat it?
No. 2 Cool idea for now to show people how I treated it with CLR and Scotchbrite and steel wool. And wow, what a difference from before. Then tell the stories of the treatments? ... Danny
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More
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Next the side of right fender... D
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More
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I would treat it all. You have lots of before and after pictures to show.
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Create a book to take with you to show any and everything you want. I did it for my 67 and plan on doing the other 2 at some point.
Click Me!!! (http://www.shutterfly.com/)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/superslow/1967%20Camaro/DSC03833_zps3af4e2bd.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/superslow/media/1967%20Camaro/DSC03833_zps3af4e2bd.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/superslow/1967%20Camaro/DSC03834_zps16c2f42b.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/superslow/media/1967%20Camaro/DSC03834_zps16c2f42b.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/superslow/1967%20Camaro/DSC03835_zps550071df.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/superslow/media/1967%20Camaro/DSC03835_zps550071df.jpg.html)
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Picked up some more parts. Got an original late '68 build solid rivet Rad Cap, Repro Battery Cables, Spark Arrestor, Wiper Arms, Blade Holders, ... Repro Packard Plug Wires, Heater Hose, White Striped Vacuum Hose... Danny
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Wires
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Arrestor
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Danny, can you post a picture of what you picked up in wiper arms and blades?
I got mine since we last talked..... You won't believe where I got mine. :)
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Didn't get the blades yet, but blade holders. And also the arms. Turns out, if these are correct arms... they match the ones I already have. Pictures later. Gotta go finish X-Mas shopping.. And then take the car for a spin!! ... Chick, I just sent you an email with some picture on another subject... D
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Radiator cap looks like it was left outside right next to your car, a spot on match.
Those plug wires look to good, your going to have to drag them around the block a few times .. :D
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Here is the Solenoid bracket installed. Put it right where it looks like it once was. I can see the change in the dirt and rust line ;D..
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more
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more
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more
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so what is the purpose of that second circular 'loop' in the bracket??
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Probably to rest against the starter housing and keep the bracket from being able to rotate, which would pull on the wiring.
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I was wondering that myself. Makes sense to me... :D :D ... D
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Well I got my hot side battery cable mounted. Put that all back together last night. Note the battery hold down with the "K" stamp. The ground cable bolt and washer for the firewall. Soaked all in evaporust over night. That washer sure is special. Would hate to try to find one.... Danny
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washer again and bolt with embossed "D"... D
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Battery bracket... D
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More, I remember Chick comparing these... D
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The "K" lightly inked and a couple more views of the hold down bolt.. D
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Here is what I THINK is all assembly line correct for my car. Right down to the dual ribbed ANCO wiper blade rubber. I have them all boxed with other like items for shows. Danny
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More.. Chick, I think this is what you wanted to see?... D
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more
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Blades.. These are the dual rib blades.
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So does all that seem correct??.. D
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Danny, Parts look correct and very nice. Thanks for sharing photo's. Could you measure the battery hold down bolt from the bottom of the head to the tip? George
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Yes, I have some not correct info on my build thread on wiper blades put on a couple weeks ago that I will be updating but from what I have seen and researched Danny the blades are correct along with the correct battery hold down clamp and bolt. Those clamps are not so easy to find as the batteries ate them up over the years.
One thing, did you polish the wiper arms as it looks pretty shiny. Here are some originals I'm using on our 68Z after some clean up.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/Original%20Parts/100_0206_zpscb70108b.jpg) (http://s192.photobucket.com/user/1-2-b-67L89/media/68%20Camaro%20Z28/Original%20Parts/100_0206_zpscb70108b.jpg.html)
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George, I will pull it back out and measure it for ya tomorrow night.
Chick, no major polishing as they about came that way. Just a good cleaning and I loaded the blades. Looks like you have 2 different blades? Different fonting, letter depth and spacing? Especially the USA? I am gonna have to dock ya 2 points for that... :D ... D
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With the number they made per day I'm sure or would assume that had more than one stamper. Wonder how many thousand they made a day? Another is the location is slightly different and one is definitely deeper in impression. Glad you are not a judge! LOL
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/Original%20Parts/100_0227_zpsbe12bdca.jpg) (http://s192.photobucket.com/user/1-2-b-67L89/media/68%20Camaro%20Z28/Original%20Parts/100_0227_zpsbe12bdca.jpg.html)
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I used to have 20/10 vision, me and Chuck Yeager.. I would have made a great judge :D But those days are gone, still no glasses at 54, but when light is low, need readers.
Also noticed some machine creasing, see picture.. D
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George,
The measurement from the bottom of the head, past the captured washer to the end of the threads = 1". Looks to be right at exactly an inch... D
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I used to have 20/10 vision, me and Chuck Yeager.. I would have made a great judge :D But those days are gone, still no glasses at 54, but when light is low, need readers.
Also noticed some machine creasing, see picture.. D
I'm confident they are from the press dye when formed. Again, more than one dye being used I'd assume. JohnZ I'm sure could give some #'s on what was being produced as it had to be Huge!
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George,
The measurement from the bottom of the head, past the captured washer to the end of the threads = 1". Looks to be right at exactly an inch... D
Hi George! The thing that makes them unique is the O.D of the captured washer which is around 7/8".
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/Hardware%20Original/87diaboltorigamporigclamp_zps45f50356.jpg) (http://s192.photobucket.com/user/1-2-b-67L89/media/68%20Camaro%20Z28/Hardware%20Original/87diaboltorigamporigclamp_zps45f50356.jpg.html)
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Guys thanks for the measurement's & info. I have seen that bolt used anywhere else. George
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Got my 15 X 7 FW Rally wheels painted, and tires mounted and on the car. Now I can clean up the originals and work on getting Good Year Wide Tread GT's.
Funny out of all 5 DF rally wheels, only one has a "Kelsey Hayes" Stamp. Never seen that before, wonder why it's not on all the wheels... Danny
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Went to my first cruise-in/car show today and won 1st. runner up out of about 60 cars. The winner was a beautiful 1960 Jeep pick-up with a 9' bed. Pretty cool for sure. I voted for it! Lots of "run of the mill" rides, and some very nice semi-scarce ones. I went up to the Jeep guy after the announcements and said ," You had to bring the jeep didn't ya." He got a kick out of it.... D
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Car turns 47 this week 8) NCRS production date = 6/4/68. Good Times!... D
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Car turns 47 this week 8) NCRS production date = 6/4/68. Good Times!... D
Congratulations Danny. Your car's older, better looking, and faster brother was born on 2/15/68! ;)
Paul
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Paul. shoot me some pictures of your car. I don't think I have ever seen it. February car.. that means 302 emblems... COOL !!
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Crawled inside the trunk and detailed for a couple hours. First on my right side, then my left. Couldn't turn around while in the trunk :) Came out nice and is ready. Waxed the deck lid underside etc. Nothing much left to do.. That part of the car is ready for show. Found a stamp on the gas filler cover. Never noticed that before... Danny
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Trunk cleaned.. I thought I had it cleaned once before, I was wrong.. D
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More trunk.. D
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More
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more..
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more, you can really start to see details, colors, over spraying, where things begin and end.. D
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Great pics Danny. Does your car have the black shock covers on both sides?
(I have one on the drivers side but not on the passenger side, maybe it got lost)
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Austin,
Maybe the '69's were the only ones to get the DELUXE shock rod covers?? :)
PS. my car also had one only on the driver's side... in my faint memory, I think I recall that GM did not install one on the other side because the spare tire basically hides that area.. and perhaps the little 'boot' was to prevent the shock screw threads from scratching up luggage?? (or maybe people's moving the spare in and out over the years damaged/pulled off the one on the passenger side?).. :)
Gary
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Thanx.. If I remember correctly there never was a cover on the right, as it was protected by the spare as mentioned. I have my original in place..
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Well that would be nice if mine wasn't missing one. That makes sense. So what products did you use to clean your trunk area?
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I just reached way back in as far as I could and sprayed with Windex. Easy soft clean and not to heavy of a an odor. Since I was trapped in the trunk. There are still area's that you can see in the picture that look dirty and dusty. However they are not. That's just area's that did not get coverage when new. The white plastic on the side marker lights and wiring were pretty dirty. I stuck my camera WAY back up in the wells and got pictures all the way back in to the doors. I evaporusted some spots and took a hard bristle plastic brush and scrubbed all around. Whole project took about 4 hours or more. But removing the lights and really getting it clean was very rewarding visually. I just have to install a "Micro" wheel weight on the spare and call it good. Again, just nice to have a section complete. D
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where are you getting the "micro" winged weights?
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As soon as I seen Chicks thread about weights, I started looking for them. I have some now, in various sizes, and hoping when I get my Good Year Wide Tread GT's, I will have enough to actually BALANCE the original wheels. So I can drive it with those to shows etc. if need be... Not just hammer one on each wheel for the visual. We will see what happens. Don't have the dough for the tires yet. .. D
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Here is PART of my collection. ;) .75, 1.0, 1.25, 1.50, 1.75, 2.0, 2.25, 2.50, 2.75, 3.0, 3.25, 3.50, and one big 5.0 half pound sucker.. Small ones don't have room for the word "Micro", so they have just an "M".. ALL the rest say "Micro"... D
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more...
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well now I know who to talk to when I want to swap mine out for the originals....
I assume you got a lot of those from the bone yard?
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Danny,
Nice collection of wheel weights... I have a few coffee cans of those you can route through as you continue your search.
I do believe the 60's version of these wheel weights only had ounces written on both sides of the word Micro. Such as "2.0 Micro 2.0",
Pretty sure they didn't change the numbering format to the "Ounces Micro Grams" version until the mid seventies, when the metric craze starting kicking in.
Charlie
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OUCH... Then that would mean these are incorrect? I need to be sure of that if anybody knows. Cause that means I am selling ALL of these but ONE. I better check all my other ones. I have another 20 or so... D
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Danny....here is a link to an original tire and wheel Chick bought and it shows the early "Micro" weight.
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1718842&postcount=535 (http://www.camaros.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1718842&postcount=535)
I looked at my original spare and the only weight it has on it is a .5 and that is the only marking on the weight......too small for any other letters.
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I seen these wheel weights with the "wings". Is this correct?
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That original spare is nice, and it looks like the "wings" would be original. Now the search begins....
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I seen some online for sale and they had a "C" where your "B" is located. The seller said the "C" stood for Camaro. Wonder how true THAT statement is...??? D
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I seen some online for sale and they had a "C" where your "B" is located. The seller said the "C" stood for Camaro. Wonder how true THAT statement is...??? D
Right! LOL! :P
Danny, ask the seller how he knows the "C" isn't for Caprice, Chevelle, Corvette, etc. ;)
Paul
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Tried to replace the shift boot today, didn't happen. Didn't know it was mounted under the tunnel. But before I put it back together, I took a couple shots of the plate with Part #... Danny
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Here is the detailed cleaned deck lid pic I mentioned in an earlier post. Gotta love those original stickers hanging on for life... D
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I am pretty sure it is mounted underneath so nothing gets in. Seems like they over did it on this idea. My Mustang is simple you tuck the boot underneath the carpet and then the trim plate holds it in place. Not going to prevent water from coming in, if you submerge... :o
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Yes they really wanted to be safe I guess. My old '65 mustang took 5 minutes from the top. That's ok, the one in place is original. But has a big split in it. I was just trying to quiet it down until the big show. No biggie... Found the other weights, there are about 18 or 19 that are correct. So I feel better that it's a good start. I wanna be standing there with the weights in my hand while the new tires are being mounted. But like Charlie mentioned, I can just go back and do it myself with the matching size weight later if I miss 3 or 4.. D
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Danny....shouldn't be any of the shifter boot and retainers beneath the tunnel....all above the tunnel. The 1968 AIM, UPC M20, Sheet A1 shows the rubber boot seats on top of the tunnel, then a retainer sits on top of the boot and screws secure it to the tunnel. The carpet then fills in around the retainer and a cover then screws down on the retainer thus covering up the edges of the carpet.
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Well that's not the way it is, as far as I can see there is a part of the boot all the way around, UNDER the tunnel. I will pull it back apart and take some pictures and post... D
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Here is some of the correct batch that I found. Will be on the look-out for more.. D
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Pulled the driver side view mirror. Forgot how hard it is to take a picture of silvered glass. :D Can anyone tell me if all these numbers line up with the car, and if the parts are assembly line correct? I assume 5 = May and 8 = 1968... What does the CBC / DMI / C-2 / B12 Stand for ...Danny
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Never noticed the word "CAMARO" right on top of the gasket... D
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more
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Did more research and found out DMI stands for "Donnelly Mirror Inc." Still curious about the gasket saying 'CAMARO" and the other things mentioned. D
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I have a similar gasket on mine that said "Camaro" made me think it was reproduction, but maybe it's original?
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STILL Kicking myself in the A** for dumping my original air filter cause I thought it was dirty. Hoping to make myself feel better... I dug out some parts that were on the car when purchased. Hoping they are maybe even assembly line correct. First up is an cap and rotor. Danny
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rotor.. Has Delco Remy Made in USA and a "U" on top, and the number 5 embossed on the back.
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a set of wires that have no quarter dating, just "Packard 440 USA"... Danny
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Here is some of the correct batch that I found. Will be on the look-out for more.. D
I have four MICRO 1 "winged" weights just as you pictured. 1 is mint, 1 has a small hammer ding in the middle, and 2 only have minor squishing of the text in a spot.
As long as you are going to use them yourself, or "pay it forward" to the next guy, then PM me and we'll work out how to get them to you.
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Danny you have a good thing going here...
maybe I talk you into sending me the ones you don't use... ::)
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Jeff, I appreciate that, but let's hold off for right now, as it looks like I may be scoring a big pile next week that are all pretty nice.
Bullitman are these correct for your car ? Here are some pictures of the weights I picked from the pile... Danny
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cherry picking as I have to PAY for these.. ;D D
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thats a huge collection Danny. How much does he charge per weight?
Yes I think they would be correct for my car. My original spare still has these weights on it. I have the original wheels on my car with some Goodyear Wide treads that are balanced. I was thinking of trying to find similar weights and swap them out by hammering them on in the same spots?
Hey Jeff I would still be interested in what you have since I am just starting out here... :)
So far my wheels currently have .75 left front , and .75 left rear, and then .75 right rear , and a 2.75 right rear. Not sure they make them that big?
These were all the outside of the wheels, I still have to look at the inside of them. I may need to rebalance that right rear and see if I can move the tire and get it to balance with a smaller weight.
One other thing I thought of were they using a high speed balancer back then or bubble balancer? (May be a question for JohnZ)
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Hey Jeff I would still be interested in what you have since I am just starting out here... :)
That's fine with me, as long as Danny doesn't want them.
Also, if you guys are going as far as having the correct wheel weights, do you have the correct T-3 headlights?
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yes I have the originals with the red ink stamping on the back side. Surprised they would have lasted this long and 47k miles and still work. Could always use a spare though.
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I have 1 but I need another for my 68 T3 that is.. ;D Does it work?
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Well, Danny got the last of my used T-3 headlights (he always seems to be one step ahead). I have a NOS pair still in the Guide boxes, but want them to stay as a pair. Send me a PM if you need more info on them.
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Jeff plugged me in big time on a set of T-3's. I have 2 others that are OK, and not showing any clouding. But NO way even close in condition to the one's I got from him. And yes, go ahead and give those to the bullittman.
I am going to do a count soon on my MICRO's, once I take delivery. I think I may be done searching. As far as the guy I am purchasing from, he will be listing those other's {not squared in the pictures} on eBay soon. I just don't want any gouged one's, so I cherry picked. Also, as of tonight, I will have 10 " M.25 " ... Which in my search are kinda scare. And all 10 in VERY nice condition.
Bullittman, once I get the new good year wide tread GT's mounted and balanced I will pay ya forward some extra's. I will sell the rest to friends or online to help finance my MCACN trip! But I have to check stock on M.75's.
FYI, I was taught by a CRG member that any tire that was needing more than 2.50 ounces during assembly line mounting, was removed, spun around, and rebalanced. Maybe JohnZ can confirm.
Cook, let me dig out and plug in those other two I have and see what happens. I will leave them on for a few minutes and find out. Gotta find out some day right..
I still need to check for original wheel cylinders for a member at my buddies tow yard. And also another YH wheel date. I have not forgotten. LOT'S going on as we all know. .. Danny
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FYI, I was taught by a CRG member that any tire that was needing more than 2.50 ounces during assembly line mounting, was removed, spun around, and rebalanced. Maybe JohnZ can confirm.
The limit that required re-orienting was 5 ounces - see your A.I.M., UPC 10, sheet A1.
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WHOOPS, I guess I got that wrong.. ;D D
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Put the car on the lift at my friends shop for some work. Changed oil and filter. Trans fluid, fluid was brown/dirty/ugly. Pulled differential cover, took pictures, added the non sulphur GL-4 and Chevy posi additive. Ring and pinion both dated May of '68. WOW it is HARD to take pictures of the pinion while in the car!!
Adjusted the Muncie linkage. WHAT a difference it made. Was worth the 2 hours of awkward labor. Greased all fittings including Z bar. Danny
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I guess that 41 and 11 are numbers of teeth. Cause when I divided them it came up 3.72727272729, for 3.73... ;D There was some very faint numbers on another part of the ring gear. Hard to make out, looks like an 11, 9, 4, 68.. D
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more
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Here is my " MICRO " weight stock count. I thought I was done, but I don't think so now that I see the numbers. LOTS of 1.00's. Search goes on.. D
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That is some list. Hard to believe you need that many, just to balance your original wheels?
I am thinking I may need to rent a tire balancer to get the weights just right, when I am ready.
The guys at a regular tire shop are not going to want o mess around with moving weights, and me showing up with my own micro weights.
Also, what s the procedure for finding the "red mark" to line up with the rivet? (when mounting the tire)
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That's why I bought my own pneumatic changer and electronic spin balancer. Most shops won't or can't take the time to do what you're looking for. I'm stocked on all those weights listed, and yes you sometimes get a wheel that can use various combinations of that list. If that gets excessive I like to break the bead and rotate the tire on the rim slightly and start over. Usually I'll end up with a maximum of 1.5-2 ounces when static balancing and sometimes less in dynamic mode. The cheaper the tire the worse it can be.
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Looks like I may be coming to you then Larry...haha
You are stocked with those weights ? you mean the newer style though right? (Not the old style micro with the wings)
Can you explain static balancing vs dynamic?
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> Hard to believe you need that many, just to balance your original wheels? <
Of course there is way more than needed. I just wanna make sure that if I need a .75 and a 1.25 on each wheel... I have it. I can as we discussed before, just go back later and put on the MICRO's that match the weight they use when balancing. But I thought it would be good to be ready. I don't even have the tires yet :D Then sell the rest to try to get some of my investment back. Maybe keep 1 or 2 of each size. Surely don't need 52 1.00's :o Danny
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Looks like I may be coming to you then Larry...haha
You are stocked with those weights ? you mean the newer style though right? (Not the old style micro with the wings)
Can you explain static balancing vs dynamic?
Yeah I have stock of both, newer style, aluminum wheel style, and a fair assortment of the old micro style with the wings.
Static is balancing the wheel with weights on the inside only, dynamic is both sides. My machine also has options to dynamic balance but keeping both "planes" of weights on the inside of the wheel (like one plane on the outer lip and one more towards the center of the wheel as one option for instance)
If you run beauty rings it really doesn't matter but most people (like myself) don't like to see wheel weights on the outside of the wheels so I find myself static balancing most wheels.
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And of course it never fails, there is a weight right in line with the clip that holds the trim ring in place. So I like to have them all on the inside... BUT, what did the factory do?? .. D
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Decided to check the mileage for fun. Just cruising around with my foot pretty much out of it. SO for fun I want you all to take a guess. And the member who gets the closest gets a prize from me. I will run it for about a week, then pick the winner!! ;D Danny
Oh wait.. I guess I should be asking permission first?? Ok, we better wait for Mr. Kurt to chime in.....
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I will guess you got around 18 miles a gallon if your foot wasn't in it.
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Danny I'm gonna guess it at 16.7 mpg with just alitle bit of foot in it.........................
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14 mpg.... :)
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12.5 mpg
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15mpg
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15.1 (lol)
Shouldfair ok as long as your not kicking in the secondary's, maybe >17 mpg, but what fun is that???
Interesting stats to me anyway, my buddies twin BBC boat burns 1 gallon per minute at 55 knots, our 2400# race car will burn a couple gallons on a pass. ( idle to staging, burnout, run, idle to pits). Exactly how much slips my mind right this moment ,but in the log.
Have read a post by John Z how surprisingly low the HP requirement is traveling at 55 mpg in a passenger car.
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15.1 (lol)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JwKZ6p1YK3E/UuwnMPVAAPI/AAAAAAAAHoc/2umbT02MIk4/s1600/4_14_6.gif)
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I await somebodies guess at 15.2.... :P ;D
Or we could start guessing what the prize is.....
(free 1 year membership on the CRG) haha
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To make a real accurate educated guestamation I would really need a few variables. Was there any school zones enforced, what's your average 0-35 mph times (assuming all city driving) and roughly how many stop signs and lights did you hold...a total sitting/idle time? :o Without any of those it's a total blind guess... ;D of 13.7
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" Dead Man's Curve" playing always some how dropped my MPG ! I see your 15.2 and raise to 15.3.
Dart sportsman's block (oops, wrong site) would be a great prize to display in the shop!
302 with the 4:88's gave me around 10 mpg if I remember. The 400, a good solid 8 mpg. Mind you I never let the carbon build up.
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Keep the guesses coming, this is great. All I will say at this point is.. ONE of you is SUPER close!!
Prize will be 1 item of your choice of many items. See pictures for SOME choices. Starter bracket has the rod, with nut, no wire loop holder. That went on my car ;D . D
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more choices, 3908326 valves
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If someone hits it right on the money.. They get a special surprise!! More pictures of choices to follow.. D
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more
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I'd have to say 14.4 Danny.
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very cool Danny ! Fun thread.
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Ok, 17mpg???
(BTW what adapter is that?)
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Muncie speedometer adapter.
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Yes this is getting fun ;D
That adapter is a conversion for the speedo. I can't remember how it works. I think it goes by the color dab on the unit. This one doesn't have it. I think I have seen red and purple?? Maybe someone can chime in and tell by the part number which one this is... D
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14.2 Danny.
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WOW, there is a couple of you that are SOOOO close. I hope someone hits it right on the money! I will try to load some more pictures of possible prize choices. I have some '68 grill trim, Bowtie locking gas cap and some other stuff. I gotta dig it all out. Contest ends Sept. 2nd at 3:28pm Danny
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14.3 based on end of contest date, well just guessing---actually need the Bow Tie cap !
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Ok I gotta come in with 14.5.....
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Another guess, 13.9
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Are we allowed '2nd guesses'??? If so, I'll add 14.1 to my previous guess of 14.0 (since someone just got 13.9)... :)
Danny: Some one posted a link to a butternut yellow '69 Z28 over on TC.. looks like a nice car, and would sit really well next to your '68 in your garage.. :)
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I should have prefaced that the guess by post 762, has NOTHING to do with me stating that someone is close. Does that make sense. In other words, I just read the WHOLE post before I made that comment at post 763. So please don't think you need to guess all around THAT 762 guess.
As far as posting more than one guess, I would say no at this point. Ya can't get excited and change your guess, cause " I " got excited ;D ;D Otherwise it would not be fare, or is it fair. D
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RELAX, just having alittle fun with this. However, will stick with 15.1(Cook lol)
I never 2nd guess myself, only reassessing ;D
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OK, you guys have talked me into it. My guess is 12.7.
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Danny, my guess is 12.6
Paul
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your gas milage was? And the winner is?
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Ok guys, sorry took so long, but I worked 11 hours straight today, and am DEAD on my feet!! Also my computer went back to factory settings, cause I chose some wrong recovery selections. It is ALL the way back to a new computer status. It's got my whole life on there, I am devastated. It's touch and go says the computer tech guy, as I may have lost ALL: my emails, documents and pictures...
However I am at the girlfriends computer so I can announce the winner!!
The mileage was 13.1... And the winner is Vince, reply #770 on Aug. 30th at 8:24pm. He was .4 away from an exact guess. Well done everyone, I hope ya all had fun with it. I know I did and thanx to the higher ups for letting me have a little fun with my online Camaro buddies. And I am sure we don't wanna turn this into a game show, so I won't be starting a new challenge..
Vince, I will contact you when things get worked out with my computer. If you want one of the items already pictured, LMK..
O/w I will send you some more pictures of 3 or 4 more items to choose from.. It's up to you... Danny
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Congrats Vince!
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I can't believe it, I won. I was just thinking that even with rather conservative driving I couldn't see any first gen Z getting much more than 12. something MPG.
Danny, thank you for running the contest. I hope your computer and all info on it can be saved. Since I don't really need any parts I'll take the AC Delco Batteries sign. You can contact me when you can Danny.
Did I mention that I really appreciate this website and all the guys on it and the info they are more than happy to provide.
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VINCE!! 8) I am back in action. Just gotta download a couple more programs. Thank goodness it thru everything on my external hard drive. I was SUPER stressed.. Cost me $500!! out of MCACN monies :( :(
Ok, the Delco Batteries sign is nice. Pretty much perfect NOS with VERY minimal flaws. PM me your address and I will get it wrapped and shipped out in a few days.. Thanx again CRG for this little contest. And Congrats again to Vince... Danny
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Decided to check the second partial hidden VIN..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbYkug12_vQ
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Congratulations Danny! You're a YouTuber! :)
Paul
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Yes, I had been going there for years, but never opened an acct. .. D
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Nice video work... numbers more legible than if I've been leaning over the car itself.. :) and I think I could even see broach marks on your engine deck.. :)
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That video is scary accurate with very clear images. I would be scared to post a video like that, just because of the copy-cat fraud guys that could see it, and then make me wonder about a guy who would go through the trouble to copy my car.
A better name for your video might be " how to make a 68 Z/28"
Not criticizing your intentions of showing/documenting a great original Z/28,
its just the day and age we live in, stuff like this could be misconstrued to be used for the wrong purpose. Just my 2 cents
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Thanx, it took a while to get all 5 flashlights in place. And yes, you CAN see nearly all the broaching I was surprised when I played it back. I wish I Could have had the car in the air, and do the transmission and rear axle assembly still with the one take. I still have time, as the original heater code is out for rebuild. And it won't be back for another week. Then I get to put it all back together.. :D
Heater motor dated 5/68. I will get pictures up when I can. I didn't know the heater motor was dated. I was debating on sending out the motor for rebuild. But I mounted it in my vice and jumped it with a battery and let it run for 15 minutes. It was very smooth and didn't even get warm. It sat for 26 years so I think it's gonna be ok to reinstall. The squirrel cage was plastic. Probably metal in '67?.. D
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Whoops Bullitt, we were typing at the same time.
I see what you are saying. I was excited and proud of how well it turned out. I guess I will take my chances. All the info is on this website already. And the old ad is even still up online. I guess if someone tries to duplicate the car, WE will be the first to catch them ;) ;)... D
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Car getting loaded for MCACN. Not real exciting but fun for me.. Didn't have time to finish some projects on her, but it's to late now... Danny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haIJQOEgXwQ
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Sounds nice. I'm going to the show on Saturday. I'll come by and see the car and try to meet you if you're around.
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I'll bet you were somewhat uncomfortable when they were taking your baby. I sure would!
I assume that was you in the video? I often wonder what us CRG folks look like.
Good luck and have fun at the event.
Mike
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Danny, Great video I cant get photos to come out as clear as your video, nice job. Look forward to meet up with you and your car on Friday or Saturday. George
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Nothing against the girl. But when she got inside and was getting ready to drive it up that ramp, into that narrow space.. I was nervous for sure. I pictured her foot slipping off the clutch and sending it crashing down. She said she has done many. But I asked if I could do it, and they said yes. It is on a hefty incline at the end there so the door could open to get out. I didn't go far enough the first time for the door to open, and had to slip the clutch out a touch then quickly gas it up the ramp another 6 inches... SCARY!! And yes that was me walking around making the video.
So see ya there George... Gonna be fun meeting everyone... Danny
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I often wonder what us CRG folks look like.
Mike
Maybe someone should start a thread... "Faces of CRG.." ;D
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Hey Guys.. It has been ALOT of fun and ALOT of work at the same time. I am still here at the Double Tree lobby using there computer... We scheduled an extra day here to come down from it all. I was up at 7am on Sat. morning and asleep at Midnight. SO much to see. I didn't get any pictures cause there was hundreds of cars to see. I did however take some video from 8;15 am to 9am Sunday morning before the public was allowed entrance. I was just in awe of all the Super birds, Daytona's, hemi's, yenko's, Crazy!
Steve and the other judges from the Vintage Cert were awesome, fair and proffesional to say the least. My car was in the air Friday night from around 9pm to midnight. Then finished later in the day on Sat. Underside, Interior, Trunk, Engine Compartment, Exterior.. I made it to 85% on all sections. Only the exterior section was right on 85%, all others were in the upper 80's and 90's. Therefor I made " Vintage Legend " Status!! YAY!! :) :D ;D 8) So that was pretty much the points I could get. I think Skip and some other cars received the " Time Capsule ".. My paint kept me from trying to reach that point. And that wasn't my goal anyway with this car. Just wanted to see if I could get in the top 2 or 3 cat's.
Total Raw Score = 2754.0
Total Potential Score = 2980.4
Overall Car Score = 92.4% !!
I could maybe in the future post all my scores for each category, but don't hold your breath. I think having original brakes, exhaust, then overall condition of the underside.. the interior scored in the High 90's, and the trunk scored very high, along with original wheels put it over the edge. If one or two of those were incorrect, that would have dropped me down a category for sure.
Steve and his guys know their stuff for sure. Steve was right when he said this is not a popularity/beauty contest. I am very satisfied with the results and proffesionalism and have NO complaints. It was an honor to be judged at this show. The car brought alot of people to it all weekend long.
Will post video links and other info in a few days. Flying home Tues. Afternoon to regroup and get back to work, and wait for the car arrival... Danny
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Congrats Danny! I'm proud of you. That was a lot of hard work and attention to detail!
Buddy
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Congratulations Danny! 8)
Paul
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Nice job Danny! It was great to meet you and see the car we've been hearing about for all this time. For all you guys who haven't met Danny, I can assure you he's as nice a guy in person as on these forums. His passion for this hobby is infectious. Well deserved recognition for keeping this car intact.
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Thats great Danny. Was great meeting everyone. Wish I had known George was there.
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Thank you guys. . was great meeting no yenko George and bill Ohio, chick and skip .. Skips car was awesome to see. And charlie lilliard, that guy has some knowledge. Didnt get to spend as much time with him. There was 2 or 3 more members whos names escape me as I type this on my girls iphone. Also other car owners in our section. Off to sleep. .
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Danny it was nice to meet & talk at the show, wish I had more time. Your car is amazing, loved the photo book you put together, I am sure the judges did also.
Congratulations on your score makes all your hard work gratifying now. I enjoyed talking with you & girl friend. Next year I will plan on spending 2 days, one for socializing one for checking cars out. George
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I am back home now, flight went well.
trland Mike, THAT'S one of the other guys I was trying to remember. Thanx for the compliments, I really enjoyed meeting everyone. For some reason I was under the assumption that there was going to be like 20 or 30 CRG members present OR MORE! Ok, well maybe another show.. Time to sleep... D
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JUST finished totaling up the entire cost of the trip. Hope this helps anyone thinking of doing this next year. Minus Vintage Certification Cost if you are not going to do that... And just add cost of entry of your car in show. And your location for car hauling will vary depending on where you live of course.
This is for shipment of one car from 40 miles north of the Golden Gate Bridge in Northern CA. with Reliable Carriers... Hotel deal from the MCACN discount at the Double Tree O'Hare for 6 nights... Flight booked several months in advance with American Airlines round trip... All cab and uber fee's with tips... All meals with tips... Long term airport parking for 6 days at $18 a day... $20 in gas... Bridge Toll... This does not include rental car. We didn't need one as the doubletree is right across the street. Danny
$7,110.29 And worth every dollar!!
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"$7,110.29 And worth every dollar!!" Cajoling with real car guys for a weekend, seeing the cream of the crop, having a beaming smile...PRICELESS!
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Reliable delivered my car today. Worked out nice that it was a Sunday, but it was pretty cold. Dropped down in the 20's last night, woke up with no water. Coldest day of 2015 so far by far. I thought I covered the well piping and everything else but I guess not. Just then, I get the call from Reliable that they will be at the drop spot in 30 minutes. I flew out of the house, found them and guided them in. Got the car off the truck by pushing it. I would not start. Tried my jumper and his jumper and nothing. They drove off and I was there with nothing. It wouldn't make a sound but all lights worked. I decided to shoot the starter to get the temp. I had my little tool with me cause I was going to check a friends fridge. But no other tools. I got a reading of 34. The driver mentioned that it was just in a state that was 5 degrees. I loosened my spare and grabbed my lug wrench. Tapped on the starter lightly about 25 times. Went in and hit the key and she started to turn over slowly. So I hooked up the jumper for 5 minutes and Voila she fired right up. That starter and I assume the battery, does not like the cold. Warmed it up and took off. Felt good to take it for a spin. Even if it was only 2 miles. Not alot of damage that I could see. I did however see some rips in my driver door panel. Little scuff's in a circle around the window crank actually tearing the panel. Thought it might have been from jewelry dragging the panel. But I put my hand down there to simulate and that was not it... I KNOW they were near perfect, as I know every inch of that car. And I was standing right there when the judges remarked how nice they are. So I am a little bummed by that. I seen the car at midnight Sunday night and it all seemed fine. Car got loaded 6am the next day. It's almost like someone had a set of keys in their hand while turning the crank. Also noticed a good run of scuff marks in the same panel. From the drivers getting in and out several times and hitting them with their shoes/Boots. There were 3 Hemi Cuda's on the truck heading to San Jose. I would be real curious to see those left door panel bottoms :( :( Danny
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Danny, it was great to meet you at the show and see the car in person. It's a great car and it sounds like it scored well. Congratulations. That sure sucks about the door panel though. I think that's every owner's nightmare that these guys would not treat your car with extreme care. I would let Reliable know of your dissatisfaction. They need to hear honest feedback.
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I would deffinetly call reliable first thing monday morning, and let them know that your whole car was under the microscope all weekend, and that 11 judges spent 3 hours going over car with a fine tooth comb, and that there were no scratches or rips in the door panel prior to the car being loaded. They should step up and find a resolution, weather it is reimbursing you the cost of a original panel, or giving you a major credit for the price you paid for them to transport your vehicle. Unless they are going to change their company name, they should stand behind the contract of delivering your car in the same condition it was loaded.
hate seeing stuff like this happen to nice guys, especially when, with some care and precaution it could have been avoided... >:( :-\
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Thanx Guys.. Probably not going to happen. I have a dentist appt. and then work long days all week. And lets face it, they don't give a crap really. All these companies do JUST enough to get by. Even this morning the lady insisted I owe the full amount. WHY, because someone who works in the accounting office, dropped the ball and didn't give me credit for the first payment. She said they should have had it all set up showing that a cashiers check was received for 1/2. I had the EXACT same thing happen with "Passport Transport" when I bought this car. The guy wasn't going to release the car to me. Insisted I owe the full amount. He had to call the office and go thru the whole thing. Just like the lady did after we talked on the phone the night before. I have had about 5 call backs for issues since 1993. I have friends that get that many a WEEK! What needs to happen, is they need to find the person that is responsible for making the mistake, 'write them up", 3 write ups and your gone! Bet they pay attention after that.. But nothing will get done. The millionaire owner is sitting at home walking out into his garage, and looking at all the collectible cars he owns. You think he gives a sh*t about me and my door panel.... Doubt it... D
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Thats why the inspection paperwork is filled out. I know you paid the full amount, for a top quality transport. If you got less that top notch service then I would make time to make a call and get retribution. When paying that much I would have high expectations.But thats me.
I would bet they have paid out for less... :P
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You worry about the details, but then want to let this slide??
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my dad for several years, had a small company in florida haul his restored 57 Ford Retractable to florida and back so they could drive it in the winter. a couple years ago it returned home and my parents had got home before the car. the driver is the same each time and seemed in a hurry. Under dads car was alot of sand and dirt so dad sweep out his trailer and didnt look the car over much. After the driver left, I got there and we couldnt get the right door open without it hitting the front fender. We got to looking and the carpet was filthy under the dash. Looked a little more and both quarters were buckled. The dirt under the car and dash were what fell out of the frame (some sand leftover from blasting) and from under the dash. The only thing we can figure is that it was tied down so tight the springs couldnt move to let the body move. The year before he tied around the axle and crushed a brake line. The car was on the back bottom spot and must have had a heck of a jolt. About made you sick to see it. Dad didnt look it over close and signed off and the owner of the truck wouldn't even call him back. His insurance covered it but they did have a discussion with the truck owner. Not sure how it turned out but the car did get fixed and I think was around $7000 to do it.
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Do you have any pics of the door panel ? If they damaged it I'm not sure why you haven't told them about it but prefer to make a statement like "The millionaire owner is sitting at home walking out into his garage, and looking at all the collectible cars he owns. You think he gives a sh*t about me and my door panel.... Doubt it... D " Do you really think it is fair to trash Reliable on a public forum without even letting them know you had a problem ?
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Do you have any pics of the door panel ? If they damaged it I'm not sure why you haven't told them about it but prefer to make a statement like "The millionaire owner is sitting at home walking out into his garage, and looking at all the collectible cars he owns. You think he gives a sh*t about me and my door panel.... Doubt it... D " Do you really think it is fair to trash Reliable on a public forum without even letting them know you had a problem ?
I agree with Charley.. Everyone makes mistakes.. Its the ones that wont make it right are the ones that people need to know about.
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Call Bob Harris at reliable. He is a manager. Let him know you are a member here and the Yenko site. If anything can be done, he will get it done.
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Buddy do you mean Bob Sellers?
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Well, now that I read back over my comments, I guess I over did it. I was half joking, but I think it crossed over too far to the other side. I guess I should have put a couple smiley faces after that last comment.. :) That wasn't fair. I don't have any idea who even owns the company. How the heck could they take action if they don't even know what happened. I emailed Bob Sellers and asked him to read this thread. Again, up at 5am, out of cell range until late tonight. Same all week. I wasn't joking when I said I don't have time to call. We will see what happens.. And of course, I apologize, just a little frustrated.
Let me also say the couple that were doing the delivery, did NOT leave me stranded. I told them to go a ahead and head out. Just wanted to make that clear. They made plenty of effort to help...
I don't have pictures yet, as I am not with the car until the weekend. However, I think we all know by now I am some what of a picture taker if there ever was one... And when I get a chance, I will surely get some great close-ups. Danny
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Danny, just from my experience. A phone call is at least 100 times better than an email or something written in a thread. Have had some misunderstandings in the past with the way things are written. Talking on the phone is much better, and talking in person is even better than that. "Just sayin'." Good luck.
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In this modern technology world it seems too many people don't realize the value or satisfaction of a good "old fashioned" conversation. From dealing in the corporate world for 40 years , I have realized great satisfaction in remembering being taught this value by both my Parents and still truly appreciate it today. Besides, half of a good conversation is being able to look that person in the eyes and watch the expressions and body language to understand how they are receiving what you are saying. IMO
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I get it, face to face is always the best. But I have no way of doing that.. So started with an email.. No response as of yet. Had my girlfriend check my emails this morning. So it looks like I will have time late afternoon Friday. If I get a chance, I'll call Bob S. and see if we can connect. Also going to try to get some pictures over the weekend.... D
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Message left, pictures of damage sent today at 4pm. We will see what happens..D
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more
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good pics. I hope the best for your situation, and you have a lot better chance now of them doing something, than you did before.... ;)
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Buddy do you mean Bob Sellers?
brain fart! Thanks Steve. Thinking about Camaro Specialties!
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What is your hope/goal for repairing that damage? I wouldn't think you'd want to replace your original with a repro.. and finding a better original one is likely impossible. That said, I'd be looking for a product, or a repair service, that can repair the small tears in the vinyl... I doubt it will cost very much to do that...
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I don't know what the plan is yet. I wouldn't install a repro. I GUESS if it can be repaired I would try that... However there is a lot to consider. Not just how the repair will turn out. But after living here 48 years, I see no place local for the repair. So that means my time finding a place via the internet and several phone calls to try to make it happen, locking out an appt. day to get the car to the location.. I can see it already...That's hours and hours of my time... :( D
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It is just vinyl repair... there are fellas who visit used car lots doing such repairs on seats, etc for dealers... These minor repairs to your door panel would seem to be a very simple and easy job compared to doing a rip/tear in a seat..? :)
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Buff it up and drive it. KEEP the GF.
This! ;D
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Bob Sellers just called me.. He got pulled away for several days. I don't wanna say what happened, but it is devastating to say the least! So he is trying to catch up from it all and is back in the office for just a day. My stupid door panel pales in comparison. I almost wish I never brought it up. That aside..
He remembers two guys that moved my car a car length or so to get that big truck and trailer out. You know it's much easier to push a car from the left front post with the window down. Bob didn't pay a lot of attention, but I bet that is what happened. His drivers wear no jewelry of any kind. Bob has offered to pay for the repair either way. So I will look into a dealership repair guy and see what we can do. I may just split it with him or let it go. I know this has nothing to do with his personal issue, but I cried while talking with him.. :( :( :( But anyway, that's the update.. Danny
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Danny,
In the SF Bay area (where you live) there's a mobile upholstery repair guy that can fix your door panels. Try Kollias Auto Care...Nick at 510-220-0969 or Tony at 510-386-0820. These guys make the rounds of new and used car dealers, repairing small cracks, cuts, etc. in vinyl, leather, & cloth. Used them several times in my classics, most recently to repair the door panel on my '68 SS. Work is perfect....can't tell where the repair was done.
joe
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Joe,
Thanx much, I will look into it.. D
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Things not starting out to good for 2016. Found my 85 year old Father on his back yesterday in his bedroom with a broken hip and a shattered shoulder! Just laying there all calm. Didn't call for help, nothing. I heard him talking to himself so I opened the door and there he was. Left leg shorter than the other and his foot laying to the side. And his shoulder triple in size.
It's just getting to be too much now. I can't keep up. I am paying ALL my medical and his medical insurance. I now have to pay the property taxes. All my regular life bills like we all do, and on and on. He went from $225,000 to $600 as of this week. Ya can't get any help in this country until you sell all your property and are JUST ready to live in your car... THEN when you are desolate, they step in with some help. I did some calculations if we sell 1/2 the property, the caregiving could go on for about 3 or 4 more years. That would be the beginning of the end of our inheritance. But that's just the way it goes. I am on about 30 weekends a year, and my sister takes the rest. Caregiver during the week.
So I could go on and on, we all could.. With that said.. It is starting to look like Raquel may have to go on eBay. We actually have a couple standing offers. I am starting to think that's the only way. If we sell her then we could use that money to at least catch-up. I can't keep relying on and borrowing from my girlfriend, it's not fare to her. She doesn't wanna sell, but I just don't know what else to do. Too bad.. I already lost the '69 Z/28 3 or 4 years ago. Now might have to let the '68 go. Sorry, not really car/Camaro related .. I am just sick about it...
2016 yay! Danny
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Hang in there Danny...
We're all praying for you and your situation. Take a breath and talk everything out, I am sure you will come up with the right solution. They made a ton of first gen Camaros, only made one of your Dad..
God bless brother
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Danny, I don't know you other than being a fellow Camaro enthusiast (which is good enough reason for me!), but having lost both of my parents in the last 10 years, I've got time now to pray for yours! I don't have any amazing words of encouragement other than keep on plugging away. God bless you and your family!
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I don't know if this will help any or not Danny, but I wanted to let you know about it. Maybe you have already looked into it. California has a program called Medi-Cal and branched off of it one called In-Home Supportive Services, commonly referred to as IHSS. A person age 65 or older if found eligible for the program can receive services in the home to help with activities of daily living where a person of their choosing can be paid as their caregiver. To be eligible a single person cannot have resources such as bank accounts, stock, bonds, any liquid resource in excess of $2,000. Real property that is used as a home is exempt, one vehicle is exempt, irrevocable burial plans and a plot are exempt, life insurance can be exempt depending on the type and if any cash surrender value. You would apply for this program thru your local county social services dept. I worked for 31 years as an eligibility worker for these programs and retired 9 years ago now. So please keep in mind that what I have mentioned above may no longer be correct as the regulations change all the time. I hope all the best for you and your dad and my prayers will be with you both.
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One of the great things about this forum is the way the members attempt to help one another, whether it's about Camaros or not... *applauding* for Vince in this regards...
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after a while we get a bond more than the love of this car. big thumbs up and good luck Danny
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Well Guys and Gals it is with DEEP DEEP sorrow that I say these words... BUT... My Father Died in the hospital. 12:15am on Sunday. I am devastated!! My sister is beside herself to say the least. He was 85 and a veteran. He was a medic in the Korean War Conflict. Choked on his own saliva. Should not have died like that, it's not right. Had a DNR wrist band, so... My mom died 11 years ago and he was desperate to be with her. Now it's done, and I feel like an orphan.
I have been out of touch here and assume I will be for quite some time while this all gets worked out.
It looks as though the car is sold pending some paper work and final payment. We will see what happens. Didn't get a chance to list it online, as a friend wants it. I/we need the money desperately., but I gotta say, I hope the deal falls through, or is it thru? I can't think straight, MAJOR headache for days. Up all night working on the obit for Fridays deadline. I gotta go.. See ya all soon, hopefully... DS
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I'm sorry to hear that Danny. Don't make any permanent decisions until your head clears. My condolences.
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If they are are a friend they should give you time to think. Sincere regrets.
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Sorry to hear about this, Danny. My thoughts and prayers will be with you.
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My condolences Danny.. And I agree with Sgt & Kelley..
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Sorry to hear about your dad Danny. Treasure the times you had with him. If the person interested in your Camaro is a friend, and know how much the car means to you, they should be glad to hear you want to keep it.
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Prayers be with you and family Danny.
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Prayers Danny, I will reiterate what was stated... making a major decision is best left for calm times, however you have done much of the discovery and road worthiness maint... maybe it's time for the next one???
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Hi Danny,
Thoughts and prayers for you and your family. That's a great unmolested car, that are getting harder to find.
Steve
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Danny,
So sorry to hear your Father passed away, try and remember about the good times you had with him and remember he is at peace with your mother at hand.
Prayers be with you and your family.
George
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Sorry for your loss Danny. Thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.
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Sorry to hear of your loss Danny. Hang in there, prayers for your family
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Danny, I'm thinking of you & your family. I know what you're going through. I know things are tough right now, but as time goes on your thoughts will turn from your father's passing to his life. When you think of him you will smile instead of cry.
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Deepest sympathy for your loss Danny. Your life will never be the same, but life will go on. In this time of grieving, do not make rash decisions. Losing your car may add to your grief. I know a thing or two about the emptiness and hopelessness you face. You may want to look into a chapter 11 filing. First, get some counseling. Emotional, as well as financial. You are not in this alone because your "brothers " , here, will go through this with you out of our close relationship and the bonding this site fosters. Add you to my prayers buddy. Reach out to your friends on here for support in this time and sorrow. You'll find many will stand in the gap and help get you through this season of sadness.
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Danny's car...
http://www.hotrod.com/cars/featured/1603-you-wont-believe-what-the-salt-air-did-to-this-all-original-1968-chevrolet-camaro-z28/
Paul
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thanks for posting. Great article.
I hope your doing well Danny.
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VERY nice article on Danny's car... Since we haven't heard from Danny recently, I'm hoping he didn't sell it .. as he reported that he was considering in his last posts...
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VERY nice article on Danny's car... Since we haven't heard from Danny recently, I'm hoping he didn't sell it .. as he reported that he was considering in his last posts...
He told me recently it was not completed yet but to consider it sold sorry to state.