CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: 69 Zee on July 10, 2014, 09:28:38 PM
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Hey guys
What's your opinion on this DZ stamp and TT. It's on a Van Nuys 02B built Z28. Owner has owned for the last 13 yrs and it's been buried in his barn/storage among 6 others cars the last 2 yrs.
Says it's complete numbers matching drive train. Engine is V1210DZ, Trans P9A27B and the rear is BU1207
I also have another ?.. I know Norwood switched the location of the partial vin off the pad around Jan but what about Van Nuys ? The owner of this Z says the partial vin is near the oil filter and it matches the dash VIN
Thanks guys for any help
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Need the VIN probably is a 12b then still not sure, engine to early for a 02b newest 2 year old engine paint I have ever seen, the left rivet doesn't look right. I will let the experts chime in, thanks Darrell
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I'm waiting for vin. The gentleman says the only thing he has done to the engine in the last 13 is detail it.
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The stamp doesn't look right to me. The roman I was used for the number 1 in most stamps I have seen. The characters are a little ascew or at least look that way in the picture.
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Trim tag code 69 = Cortez Silver, Car looks Orange? Engine stamp is way too early for 02B, just restored a 02B Z, stamp was V0206DZ. Car has the wrong water pump.
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The current owner stated that the car was repainted 13 years ago prior to him buying. Yes it is hugger orange now. I'm still waiting on the trans partial vin number.
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Stamp looks good to me. I have a 12B LA built Z and the fonts are similar. My VIN is stamped on the pad too. Is this one?
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Stamp looks good to me. I have a 12B LA built Z and the fonts are similar. My VIN is stamped on the pad too. Is this one?
I was told that the Vin was stamped near the oil filter. That was another question I had.. when did or did Van Nuys move their stamp off the pad like Norwood ? Also, just curious.. I know there's a window that blocks were cast and used but due to it being near the turn of the new year and with the Holidays and work weeks being shortened is it possible that a Z could have a block casted 2 months prior? Just throwing it out there..
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Stamp looks good to me. I have a 12B LA built Z and the fonts are similar. My VIN is stamped on the pad too. Is this one?
I was told that the Vin was stamped near the oil filter. That was another question I had.. when did or did Van Nuys move their stamp off the pad like Norwood ? Also, just curious.. I know there's a window that blocks were cast and used but due to it being near the turn of the new year and with the Holidays and work weeks being shortened is it possible that a Z could have a block casted 2 months prior? Just throwing it out there..
Not sure when the shift was from the pad to the oil filter area occurred but my engine was built 7 days before yours and it's on the pad. Makes it nice to read.
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Stamp looks good to me. I have a 12B LA built Z and the fonts are similar. My VIN is stamped on the pad too. Is this one?
I was told that the Vin was stamped near the oil filter. That was another question I had.. when did or did Van Nuys move their stamp off the pad like Norwood ? Also, just curious.. I know there's a window that blocks were cast and used but due to it being near the turn of the new year and with the Holidays and work weeks being shortened is it possible that a Z could have a block casted 2 months prior? Just throwing it out there..
Not sure when the shift was from the pad to the oil filter area occurred but my engine was built 7 days before yours and it's on the pad. Makes it nice to read.
I just received the VIN 124379L512876 and I believe the TT date is 12B and not 02B as I stated in the very first post. So the engine and rear would fall in line but the transmission would not since it's A27B (Jan 27)..correct?
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Norwood started stamping the engine VIN down near the oil filter in the early 1969 calendar year. Van Nuys was more inconsistant and stampings have been found on both places thru April of 69. So yes it could have been stamped down by the oil filter like Norwood if its a 02B. According to Jerry some early production Van Nuys engines have been found down by the filter as well
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Norwood started stamping the engine VIN down near the oil filter in the early 1969 calendar year. Van Nuys was more inconsistant and stampings have been found on both places thru April of 69. So yes it could have been stamped down by the oil filter like Norwood if its a 02B. According to Jerry some early production Van Nuys engines have been found down by the filter as well
Maybe I had fat fingers in the first post and posted the wrong TT date. It looks like 12B. Gentleman says he'll try tomorrow to get a pic of the partial VIN near the filter. Says it is there but hard to read and matches the VIN. Will post as soon as I can get
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It's definitely a 12B, Your VIN is about 375 off mine.
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My former L A 69 09D 68 down by oil filter. fyi
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It's definitely a 12B, Your VIN is about 375 off mine.
Interesting Rick, Thanks. Now my head is spinning. Within the last few post I called the current owner again to verify the TT as 12B and not 02B. I thought maybe I had heard him wrong during our first conversation earlier today. From what the current owner is saying it is an 02B..Now that's baffling unless the TT is bad. An 02B production no. would be near 52xxxx as were a 12B production is around 51xxxx (10,000 car difference) Being the vin is 512876 that's more like 12B ...ugh ! Now I'm gonna need a better close up of the TT as well... stay tuned !
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My former L A 69 09D 68 down by oil filter. fyi
Oh wow now that's early ....hmmmm
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My old yellar has the partial Vin on the deck... And its a 03D build....
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Hard to tell for sure with that pic, but pad looks original.
It's a 12B car.
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Yes you can see that's a '1' partly obscured by the trim tag rivet.
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Yes you can see that's a '1' partly obscured by the trim tag rivet.
Yeah I couldn't figure out if that looked like a "1" or "0" behind the rivet or just part of the rivet. Gonna try to get a better pic.
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Looks like it could be a nice car for the right price. How original is the rest of the car?
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Says $45 is the VERY LEAST he'll take. Says all original except the hood and paint which was repainted prior some 13 years ago. Original Int w/am radio, console w/gauges and clock delete. Also has the original 4 leaf spring. Hasn't been on the road in over 2 yrs as it's been burried behind 6 other cars (couple other Camaros) in storage. Says the only thing he's done since he bought it 13 yrs ago (off Hemmings, before the computer craze) was detail the engine and that's it. Has original smog set up on engine as well
Still doing my homework on it and suppose to get me more pics this weekend.
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The car looks pretty nice from the couple pics you posted. Do you have somebody you trust that is near it, that can go check it out?I notice it has a console, but no clock. So console was possibly added at one point, with a tach.
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Looks nice. Do you know if it has all the original rims? Is it still on the west coast.
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The car looks pretty nice from the couple pics you posted. Do you have somebody you trust that is near it, that can go check it out?I notice it has a console, but no clock. So console was possibly added at one point, with a tach.
Owner says it was clock deleted ... is that a possible option ?
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Looks nice. Do you know if it has all the original rims? Is it still on the west coast.
No, It's on the East coast (Virginia) about 15 hours North of me. I'd have to drive up and look at it. I'm interested if all is what it is. Being a Van Nuys, my only hope would be that the DZ stamp is real and the part VIN near the oil filter matches the dash VIN as the owner says it does.
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I am not sure about that. Does he have paperwork with the car, that would show it had a clock delete?
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I am not sure about that. Does he have paperwork with the car, that would show it had a clock delete?
No paper work. Purchased that way 13 years ago and always assumed it was a clock deleted option...hmmm
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Some other guys can weigh in here. My guess would be it left the factory with just a speedo and fuel gauge, and then at later time the console gauges and tach were added. Maybe when the paint was done. Just a small mod back then, no biggie... :)
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Being a Van Nuys built car I would check the top of the gas tank for the build sheet. That's where I found mind. If it is there and readable it would be the documentation you need.
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good point!
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Being a Van Nuys built car I would check the top of the gas tank for the build sheet. That's where I found mind. If it is there and readable it would be the documentation you need.
Yes a possibility
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http://www.americancarcollector.com/auctions/1969-chevrolet-camaro_14299
Paul
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Wasn't sure if the Alternator was original but the intake, carb, heads, valve covers and smog was. It's the same Alt from when he bought and he's never changed it or looked to see what the numbers were. Also one of the reason for "so-so" DZ stamp pic I posted. Said it was about the best he could get without removing the Alt. and he didn't want to mess with removing it.
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http://www.americancarcollector.com/auctions/1969-chevrolet-camaro_14299
Paul
I'm not seeing a picture on that site (no image available) ..I found it on another. But it's the same VIN and description so I'm assuming it's the car... opinion?
Thanks
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Good find Paul.
description from auction: "Hugger Orange-white stripes/black; rally wheels, complete cowl induction; California emissions (air pump), 12-bolt 3.73 Posi, Hurst shifter, front discs; fair paint & tape masking, cracks around aerial but generally a nice Z/28"
What does cracks around the aerial mean ?
I guessing the alternator did get replaced, the one in the pic has the small pulley... :-[
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Good find Paul.
description from auction: "Hugger Orange-white stripes/black; rally wheels, complete cowl induction; California emissions (air pump), 12-bolt 3.73 Posi, Hurst shifter, front discs; fair paint & tape masking, cracks around aerial but generally a nice Z/28"
What does cracks around the aerial mean ?
I guessing the alternator did get replaced, the one in the pic has the small pulley... :-[
yeah..lol, good find.. I thought it was a small pulley
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I am not sure about that. Does he have paperwork with the car, that would show it had a clock delete?
I think Austin is correct. No center clock meant no gauges originally. Those additions would have me checking deeper before buying. Not saying its a bad thing or bad addition I would just want to know what else was added or changed.
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I agree. One change would make me want to dig deeper. We all hope to find that car that nothing was changed, but we should all be very skeptical buyers when looking a car over. Don't put on the rose colored glasses..... :)
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Your never going to find that car where nothing has been changed. You just have to do your home work and ask questions.
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Oh I agree, to find one unchanged in some way shape or form..nearly impossible. But I do understand what you all are saying. One change can very easily change the out come of the entire ball game. Why it's gonna be important for me to get that TT ok'd and the block stamp & VIN. Without a tank sheet or matching block I'd never touch a Van Nuys Z, just hard to verify without either of the two.
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What does cracks around the aerial mean ?
My guess, cracks in the paint around the base of the antenna.
Paul
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A pic coming soon of the paint crack.. I also asked for 3 pics in particular and he said yes he'll get. Better pic of DZ stamp, part VIN at filter and better TT pic since some confusion on the date... stay tuned :)
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Wrong upper alternator bracket too, should not have that Big Hole, probably changed when they realized it had the wrong water pump? Just guessing.
Inner fender flaps appear to be missing, rad cap is small ear, wrong battery, wrong pcv valve and hose. Not picking but just noting, all good points for $ negotiations? Could be a neat car, too bad someone colour changed it.
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Wrong upper alternator bracket too, should not have that Big Hole, probably changed when they realized it had the wrong water pump? Just guessing.
Inner fender flaps appear to be missing, rad cap is small ear, wrong battery, wrong pcv valve and hose. Not picking but just noting, all good points for $ negotiations? Could be a neat car, too bad someone colour changed it.
No please.. I totally get it, exactly why I'm posting. You guys are a wealth of knowledge and I'm still a virgin..on these 1st gens guys..lol and everything you all post I look, listen and learn more.
Thanks :)
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I would be cautious ... Make a list of what parts are missing & go from there . The parts missing may have insane prices to replace them ....
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I would be cautious ... Make a list of what parts are missing & go from there . The parts missing may have insane prices to replace them ....
When you gonna realize that ole yeller is in your way and you need the space ..lol
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@ HOT 302, Rick with yours being 375 off. How's the TT look compared to yours ? just curious.
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Looks like maybe Van Nuys had a little problem with the TT rivet and build date on more than just this car. Here is another one.
VIN 124379L516579
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Camaro-Sport-Coupe-DZ-302-s-match-1969-Camaro-Z-28-Chambered-Exhaust-Muncie-4-Speed-VIDEO-/301237748956?forcerrptr=true&hash=item46232b44dc&item=301237748956&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
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Looks like maybe Van Nuys had a little problem with the TT rivet and build date on more than just this car. Here is another one. VIN 124379L516579
The VN/LOS tags generally have the first digit at least partially obscured by the rivet, at least on 69s. That one looks like someone prised the edge of the rivet aside to check if it was 01B or 11B.
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The Filter part vin 9L512876 and the crack around the aerial was in deed around the antenna base. )
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The stamp doesn't look right to me. The roman I was used for the number 1 in most stamps I have seen. The characters are a little ascew or at least look that way in the picture.
I noticed that also on the "V". I'm being told that the top of the "V" is in line with the rest of the characters.
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Is there any other "Tell-all" signs or way of knowing if this V1210DZ stamp is legit ? Everything lines up so far. I'm interested in seeing and possibly buy. I've talked to the guys several times on the numbers and he swears it's a true Z.. that's why there's more on the road than produced huh..lol I've told him several times that it's a "Loooonnnnggg" 16-17 hr drive one-way for me to turn around with an empty trailer.
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I would take a flight up there and check it out first before bringing a trailer that far. Also you won't be tempted to buy it like you would with your trailer sitting there empty. I think flying up there to take a look at it gives you a better advantage.
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The stamp doesn't look right to me. The roman I was used for the number 1 in most stamps I have seen. The characters are a little ascew or at least look that way in the picture.
I agree with Jaybee...... regarding the V out of line with the other characters... and the DZ is obscure... you either need better pix, of all the relevant stampings, OR you shouldn't waste your time...
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Hard to tell for sure with that pic, but pad looks original.
If you want better advice, get a better pic. :)
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Hard to tell for sure with that pic, but pad looks original.
If you want better advice, get a better pic. :)
Thanks Kurt... exactly what I needed to hear.
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I would take a flight up there and check it out first before bringing a trailer that far. Also you won't be tempted to buy it like you would with your trailer sitting there empty. I think flying up there to take a look at it gives you a better advantage.
A round-trip air fare is cheaper price to pay than the price of blowing big bucks on a fake. I like the empty trailer thinking.. kinda like always bad to go into a grocery store when your hungry...you end up buying more than what you went in for !
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It's a lot of money do all your homework first. If its still questionable after seeing it in person you could always have Jerry or another certified expert look over the car to make sure. It would be an extra expense, but compared to a buying a fake anything, it may be money well spent.
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Darrell, Have you checked to see if maybe any of our members might live in the area and would take a look at it for you? That would save you some time and money.
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I don't think 8K tachs were in 12 B cars .
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I am guessing it was originally a non tach car.
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Tachometer use for 1969.
http://www.camaros.org/interior.shtml#69Z28Tach
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I am guessing it was originally a non tach car.
Probably as you said earlier..I'd have to agree. Speedo and fuel gauge only with no console.
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I decided to pass.. and thanks for everyone's thoughts. Always good to hear a collection of minds.
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Hey man keep looking. If you have seen the recent topic of Danny getting the 68 Z, there are good finds out there.
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Thanks Bullitt65, I actually read that thread a few days ago.. pretty cool.
Likewise I actually stumbled across another Z and sealed a deal a few days ago. A 69 Z X77 03B Dusk Blue w/715 int, white top and stripes. Was about a 3 hrs drive from me so I made the drive and spent nearly 6 hrs going over. It's 99% original, all numbers from the radiator tag to 3 of the original YH rims and spare. Garaged since 1979 with an interesting story attached to it. Have a couple emails from the original owner as well a a picture of the car new. I'll be picking it up in about 4 weeks and will share the story and pics on another thread in General Discussions.
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Interesting color combo.
I am glad to see another original car come out from the shadows!
I look forward to the story and all the pics. wtg
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I saw the one you are talking about for sale. It caught my eye when I saw the ad. I won't share the link out of respect and privacy for you. It looks like your patience paid off. I admit though that I will miss your "search" posts but now we can look forward to your documenting and or restoration posts one day.
Looks like a very nice documented car. Congrats!!
Oh and by the way you are not to far from were I will be moving hopefully by this winter. Also my X77 HO car is in a very similar condition, born with drive train, original paper work etc. as the one you just purchased. We might have to swap notes and info as we go forward. :)
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I saw the one you are talking about for sale. It caught my eye when I saw the ad. I won't share the link out of respect and privacy for you. It looks like your patience paid off. I admit though that I will miss your "search" posts but now we can look forward to your documenting and or restoration posts one day.
Looks like a very nice documented car. Congrats!!
Oh and by the way you are not to far from were I will be moving hopefully by this winter. Also my X77 HO car is in a very similar condition, born with drive train, original paper work etc. as the one you just purchased. We might have to swap notes and info as we go forward. :)
Hey thanks and I'm surprised it hasn't popped up here on CRG by now. But I'll definitely be posting the entire story and pics soon.. I think it's and awesome story and how there are still hidden gens out there tucked away in a barn. My search did pay off..hours on the computer and calls. And btw..I'll still post DZ blocks and trim tags that I find interesting. Just to educate myself more and others that may be just starting out. And it's not about being a numbers guy (I don't care), It's about those who feel no remorse stealing one's hard earned $$ faking things !!