CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: daves87gn on April 15, 2014, 12:06:44 AM

Title: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: daves87gn on April 15, 2014, 12:06:44 AM
gonna post in the orphans but just want to confirm stamp is good first,

stamp pad V0425DZ
block cast 3956618
cast date C109
all he can get off the vin is 19n64384, hes gonna try and get the missing number with better light
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: z28z11 on April 15, 2014, 01:23:20 AM
One thing that sticks out is the fact the block has been decked - the lines you see running across the pad are feed lines from the milling cutter's carbide inserts. Pretty distinctive, they differ from the factory decking in that the lines from the factory broaching process run the length of the block, not sideways across the deck. They are also more indistinct than milling lines.

If it's a restamp (which it appears to be), the stamp is pretty decent. The stamp indentations are usually pretty shallow, so a .010 - .015" pass usually removes them. It could be original, but it would have had to have been stamped pretty deep to remain that visible -

My opinion - other agree or dissent ?
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: Mike S on April 15, 2014, 01:43:06 PM
  I can't comment on the correctness of this stamping but I wanted to say you can have a block decked and still retain the stampings providing the decking process doesn't take too much off vs. the depth of the stamp.Most original stampings will have a very-very slight ridge along the characters edge from the metal displacement of the imprint force. Any decking, providing it doesn't take the stamping totally off, will usually even out the slightly raised edge (as this photo looks) depending on the deck cut depth.

Mike
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: daves87gn on April 15, 2014, 06:00:59 PM
I emailed the pics to Kurt, and he also informed me that the block has been decked but that stamp was good

waiting on owner to see if he can get the missing digit for the vin, then i'll post in the orphans section


Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: x77-69z28 on April 15, 2014, 07:11:37 PM
I would say the missing digit is "3". Which would make it 634384. Strikes me as odd that the block sat around for six weeks before being assembled. Mine is less than a week.
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: BULLITT65 on April 15, 2014, 11:29:36 PM
did you extrapolate that based on stamp date?
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: VINCE Z28 on April 16, 2014, 12:53:20 AM
Guys if you ever need your motor decked make the machinist stops before it gets to the stamp pad. I had a 396 decked and I told him under NO circumstance was the stamp pad to be touched. To his credit he stopped it before the pad.
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: BULLITT65 on April 16, 2014, 01:03:45 AM
Lucky you I had the same instructions to my machinist, he botched it .... it got somewhat fixed but was preventable
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: daves87gn on April 16, 2014, 02:01:27 AM
sorry, not my block, found it for sale at reasonable price and might buy, unless we can reunite with car
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: 69Z28-RS on April 16, 2014, 02:13:19 AM
Lucky you I had the same instructions to my machinist, he botched it .... it got somewhat fixed but was preventable

When I rebuilt my Z28 engine (in 1976), I was very afraid to leave the block at the machine shop.. they wanted  to do a 'clean up' cut across the deck...  The machinist told me they would stop before they hit the pad, but I put a piece of duct tape across the pad, and wrote "DO NOT REMOVE" on it...  :)   fortunately they didn't machine the pad.. :)    I hear so many unfortunate stories, that I actually HATE to leave any of my 'stuff' anywhere with anyone. :) .. the 'I'm sorry's' don't undo their damage...
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: Mark on April 16, 2014, 02:20:18 AM
did you extrapolate that based on stamp date?

Stamp date would make that an 05A built car, and the VIN would be after 19N64XXXX.  Missing number is probably the last digit.
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: Steve Shauger on April 16, 2014, 03:20:04 PM
Lucky you I had the same instructions to my machinist, he botched it .... it got somewhat fixed but was preventable

When I rebuilt my Z28 engine (in 1976), I was very afraid to leave the block at the machine shop.. they wanted  to do a 'clean up' cut across the deck...  The machinist told me they would stop before they hit the pad, but I put a piece of duct tape across the pad, and wrote "DO NOT REMOVE" on it...  :)   fortunately they didn't machine the pad.. :)    I hear so many unfortunate stories, that I actually HATE to leave any of my 'stuff' anywhere with anyone. :) .. the 'I'm sorry's' don't undo their damage...

I was also very nervous about having machine work done on my orig Z engine (which happens to be the same date as Gary's)So I had called Jeff my engiene builder to remind him to NOT deck the block because it would remove the assembly stamping which ties the block to the car. He started to laugh and said you’ll always be able to identify this block as yours because SHAUGER is stamped under the timing cover. I never recall Radar @ K & G Speed (who did machine work for me in 1978) stamping my name.
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: x77-69z28 on April 16, 2014, 04:40:34 PM
did you extrapolate that based on stamp date?
yes, and by my car. My car is 05A, and my vin is 639xxx. My block is also an 010 block. The way they were cranking out camaros, I doubt a block would sit around for six weeks before being built. As I said, my casting date to assembly date is less than a week.
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: BULLITT65 on April 16, 2014, 06:06:04 PM

"I was also very nervous about having machine work done on my orig Z engine (which happens to be the same date as Gary's)So I had called Jeff my engiene builder to remind him to NOT deck the block because it would remove the assembly stamping which ties the block to the car. He started to laugh and said you’ll always be able to identify this block as yours because SHAUGER is stamped under the timing cover. I never recall Radar @ K & G Speed (who did machine work for me in 1978) stamping my name. "
[/quote]

Yes but your name stamped on the block does diddly to hold any value if they machine the number off of the pad.... :D
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: z28z11 on April 17, 2014, 01:23:46 AM
  I can't comment on the correctness of this stamping but I wanted to say you can have a block decked and still retain the stampings providing the decking process doesn't take too much off vs. the depth of the stamp.Most original stampings will have a very-very slight ridge along the characters edge from the metal displacement of the imprint force. Any decking, providing it doesn't take the stamping totally off, will usually even out the slightly raised edge (as this photo looks) depending on the deck cut depth.

Mike

Look closely at the edges of the stamp, and you get the suggestion the feed lines actually roll downward into the lines of the stamp - to me, that indicates the stamping happened after the decking took place. The stamps should be sharp faced, which tends to not deform the material as much as standard character stamps do. Still, not saying this is definitively the case here, it only suggests it. If the block was decked only a few thousands, the stampings might survive intact, but in most cases it will lighten it up considerably (if not completely lift it).
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: BULLITT65 on April 17, 2014, 01:30:41 AM
good observation
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: Fred Mertz on April 17, 2014, 03:17:36 AM
I don't see an oil galley plug with a hex head in that first posted picture on the first page.??
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: JohnZ on April 17, 2014, 02:35:06 PM
I don't see an oil galley plug with a hex head in that first posted picture on the first page.??

Hard to tell from the photo if the external oil gallery plug (which has a square head, BTW) is just not installed, or if there's no hole for it. Photo of the casting date will tell that story.
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: Steve Shauger on April 17, 2014, 02:38:54 PM
  I can't comment on the correctness of this stamping but I wanted to say you can have a block decked and still retain the stampings providing the decking process doesn't take too much off vs. the depth of the stamp.Most original stampings will have a very-very slight ridge along the characters edge from the metal displacement of the imprint force. Any decking, providing it doesn't take the stamping totally off, will usually even out the slightly raised edge (as this photo looks) depending on the deck cut depth.

Mike

Look closely at the edges of the stamp, and you get the suggestion the feed lines actually roll downward into the lines of the stamp - to me, that indicates the stamping happened after the decking took place. The stamps should be sharp faced, which tends to not deform the material as much as standard character stamps do. Still, not saying this is definitively the case here, it only suggests it. If the block was decked only a few thousands, the stampings might survive intact, but in most cases it will lighten it up considerably (if not completely lift it).

I have a few V0425 DZ stampings and this matches exactly in terms of font and spacing. It looks ok to me.
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: BillOhio on April 17, 2014, 08:31:21 PM
I looked at a 70z this past summer and it had what appeared as the invoice number stamped on it in a couple places. I took a picture of the vin by the filter and it was pretty legible. I thought it was odd and the car had the wrong tach. I got home and blew the vin picture up and right beside the fresh one was the original so faint the owner had never seen it.  The real deal killer was it was supposed to be citrus green (ugh) and the car had not been in California near as long as the guy led us to believe..
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: 69Z28-RS on April 18, 2014, 03:30:20 AM
and WHY does that NOT surprise us?   Sellers who misrepresent their product?   .. nahhhhh..   :)
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: Bryan302 on April 18, 2014, 08:08:25 AM
I would like to share my observation of this block.  The reason they used a 618 block with a March casting will never be known, and very unusual.  I have an 05A car with vin 19n6401xx and a stamp of V0430DZ and a 010 block.  Two other examples of 05A are 19n6404xx with V0425DZ, 010 block; and 05A with vin 19n6403xx with stamp V0430DZ and a 010 block.  It looks like the block in question is completely out of wack with standard procedure.  It looks like the stamp date should, at least be in the first week of May with a vin in the 643 range.  There are several known examples with vin's in the 639 range, with a 010 block.  This block may be good, but the GM worker was drunk!

Thanks,
Bryan
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: BillOhio on April 18, 2014, 11:27:57 PM
My car is similar and all legit. Jan 10 casting date assembled march 7. Tag is 03D
Title: Re: need the experts help with stamp pad
Post by: Mike S on April 18, 2014, 11:50:35 PM
 Considering there was no 'rotate stock' practice, I guess a block can sit on a shelf for a while before being pulled for assembly prep, or in a case of an assembled motor, sit on the rack for a while before getting installed and VIN stamped.

Mike