CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Originality => Topic started by: Java on March 17, 2014, 04:20:08 AM
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Hi, I'm new on the board. I am more of a pontiac guy but I am looking at a 69 X77 Z28 with a non original motor and transmission. It has a borg warner 4 spd in it now. The story sounds ligit and the cowl tag looks correct. I was wondering if there are any tell tale signs that it is indeed a z28? (Heard of the welded frame rail brace above rear wheel that were only on z28's. true?) It is a dusk blue ext and black int color code. Also has a 12 bolt 3:31 ratio original rearend. Just wondering how rare of combo that is and if anyone would care to throw out a value of what it might be worth. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!
Forgot to mention, it has a non original 302.
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Can you post a pic of the trim tag? Most will ask you for that. Depending on when it was built, it MAY have an X77 stamped on it if it is a Norwood built car. If Van Nuys built it won't have that code.
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Does the car have any documentation? The 3:31 rear would have had to been a special order, and even if it was rare and this car turned out to be an original Z/28, I can tell you first hand the car would be a total DOG off the line with that ratio. To me it sounds like the whole drive train got swapped out, so while there is some value to it possibly having a X77 cowl tag, a lot of its value would be in how clean the body is. Best thing you can do if there is no documentation, is post a clear picture of the cowl tag and the vin, and hopefully a pic of the stamp of the rear end housing ( passenger side tube). We can then give a better evaluation, if the cowl tag is original or re-pop. Hope this helps
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(Heard of the welded frame rail brace above rear wheel that were only on z28's. true?)
Nope. That plate was used on all cars that had factory dual exhaust. Z/28s would have 4 leaf rear springs, so that is a good thing to check. A lot of stuff could have been swapped out over the years, so it's going to take some homework to figure out what the car originally was. Like said, start by posting pictures of the VIN and trim tags.
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Thanks for the replies! Body is very clean. No rust, all four quarters replaced, bottom very clean, good paint. No worries on the sheet metal. Trim tag pic did not turn out very well but here is the info:
ST69 12437 NOR3CXXXX
TR 711 51 51
04C X77
The trim tag rivots look right, not messed with. Motor and tranny have been swapped out. Rear end is original. The thing that is odd is no rally guages and no hideaway headlights. Does that seem right?
Did not snap a shot of VIN, dang! Car is 400 miles away.
Any shots at the value for a buy and hold (not flipping)?
Thanks again!
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Not with the info provided, without actually seeing the tag and preferably a bunch of pictures of the car. An X77 is a base (no style trim) Z28 so it can not be an RS, that would require an X33 code. Treat it as a V8 Camaro unless you are 100% sure the tag is real and matches the cars VIN. Original drive train is gone, so there is no premium for the car over another 8 cylinder coupe. To purchase and build a date correct (not original) drivetrain would easily run you over 10 to 15K, so take that off any Z28 premium the seller is trying to get.
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Mark is spot on with his assessment thus far. I would only add the gauges were optional, not standard.
I would also agree if the body is clean, the value is on par with a small block plain jane camaro in the same condition.
Any pics would help us help you that much more.
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Mark, Say I get to that 100% satisfied that it is a true X77 with all of the above where would you put the range in value at? Very good paint and driver.
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What's the complete body #?
What's the complete axle code? I doubt the axle is original with that ratio....
How would you be 100% satisfied that it's a Z? I'm not sure I could be.
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X2
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Even if you are 100% convinced, that won't help the value unless the buyer is also 100% convinced. Photos of the trim tag and vin are a good starting point. Post the pics, and see if others are as convinced as you are.
Good luck!
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Looks like vin corresponds to the 04C cowl tag date. (632310). Also has 4 leaf springs on rear.
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pic of either or rear end stamp?
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Gas line ? Should be 3/8 single. Speedo clip on firewall ? Muncie location. Bulkhead crayon marks behind rear seat ? X3 might be there. Disc brake backing plate tags ? Long shot, but not always messed with.
Brake line under drivers door - one piece or residual valve (not always an indicator, but my X77 is a one piece, 01C January car).
4 leafs helps, but with no paperwork it still a guess. Intact TT is good. Post pics !
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Very doubtful a 3.31 gear is in a Z28. No pics no docs no way to tell what you are looking at. Yea it has four leaf springs, but are they repros or original. As the others have said treat the car as a V8 Camaro regarding price.