CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: KurtS on February 03, 2014, 02:01:56 AM

Title: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: KurtS on February 03, 2014, 02:01:56 AM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291054987259
Same colors, most of the same options, same town, VIN right next to his. About as twinsy as you can get to Gary's Z. :)

Oops, forgot to add the VIN: 124379N686644
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: 69Z28-RS on February 03, 2014, 02:29:03 AM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291054987259
Same colors, most of the same options, same town, VIN right next to his. About as twinsy as you can get to Gary's Z. :)

Wow..  I had to run to the basement to make sure my car didn't get stolen and restored today while I was in Nashville..  :)
VIN of that car is 3 units ahead of mine, but BDY NBR is several thousand behind.  Engine with exact same date assembly; transmission also dated the same.   The biggest differences besides that one being restored, and mine unrestored is that one had folddown rear seat and endura bumper, and came with standard interior (now upgraded to b/w ht).. and mine has standard bumpers and rear seat and orange/black houndstooth.    I was/am unfamiliar with that car, but I will try to check it out tomorrow...  and try to find out some more about it.

PS.  I recall seeing an unrestored car very similar to that one about 10-15 yrs ago, just a few miles from me, but I never found the owner, and the car disappeared and I never saw it again..   this *could* be that car now restored.    If so, I'll find out who locally restored it.
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: paceme on February 03, 2014, 02:44:54 AM
These orange black stripe RS/Z's are coming out of the woodwork. The tag is suspect to me though....
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: z28z11 on February 03, 2014, 02:48:02 AM
Good to meet you today, Gary - hope you enjoyed the Nashville hospitality. We enjoyed having you up here -

I don't want to start an uproar, but the tag R&R on this car has me a little concerned, as does the crisp lettering. Obviously new rivets, too.

On the upside, a very good looking vehicle. Price is on up there as well. Give us an update after you check this out -

Regards,
Steve
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: 69Z28-RS on February 03, 2014, 03:38:30 AM
I enjoyed meeting you, and Sport (CorvetteBronze68?) , and Darrell as well, Steve.. and being able to swap some Z stores with you!  :)
That swap meet was a lot larger than I had thought.  I left home at 6:30, got there at 8 am, and had to park about a mile away down the hill.. I was wore out by the time I got the building.. :)

I'm going to try to get a look at that car tomorrow, and I will post it up.   If anyone on CRG is interested in it, I'd be glad to pose as your 'precheckout inspector'.. :)   (another CRg phoned me tonight and said he also thought the TT was a bit suspicious).  I'm not expert on fake trim tags, but I'll take a closer look if I can see the car.
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: Mark on February 03, 2014, 11:33:41 AM
That tag pictured above is a repro tag, I've had an image of it since August of 2009.  Since all the other dates on the driveline match up with a know car, probably a color change, or addition of the RS options.
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: cook_dw on February 03, 2014, 01:04:50 PM
I enjoyed meeting you, and Sport (rare396bronze) , and Darrell as well, Steve.. and being able to swap some Z stores with you!  :)


Good to be able to put a face with the name and good talking with you as well..!!..   :)
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: cook_dw on February 03, 2014, 01:05:57 PM
I also agree that tag is definitely a repop. 
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: 68camaroz28 on February 03, 2014, 01:53:06 PM
I also agree that tag is definitely a repop. 
Yep it sure looks that way, and a shame as it takes away so much from the car. Engine pad pits look funky, rust pits?
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: Mike S on February 03, 2014, 04:58:14 PM
I also agree that tag is definitely a repop.  
Yep it sure looks that way, and a shame as it takes away so much from the car. Engine pad pits look funky, rust pits?

  I can't comment on the tag but the rust pits I can. My 67 BB convertable was apart when I bought it around '79. The motor had a spun bearing and was yanked out of the car so the block sat on the water pump side with no water pump on the ground for years and sank up to the heads with the pad buried. The owner died of bone cancer several years later after coming back from Viet Nam (likely agent orange) so the car sat for years in his parents back yard rotting until I bought it. The pad was pitted a lot and you can hardly make out the stampings but the numbers are there no less.

Mike
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: NickeyChicago on February 03, 2014, 05:28:38 PM
I can make out the rear BU code, but not the date?

Based on the pics provided, overspary inside and on the frame rails, it appears that it could have been an original Hugger Orange Camaro.

Wouldn't blacked out rockers be correct for this RS?
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: cook_dw on February 03, 2014, 06:00:57 PM
I also agree that tag is definitely a repop. 
Yep it sure looks that way, and a shame as it takes away so much from the car. Engine pad pits look funky, rust pits?

  I can't comment on the tag but the rust pits I can. My 67 BB convertable was apart when I bought it around '79. The motor had a spun bearing and was yanked out of the car so the block sat on the water pump side with no water pump on the ground for years and sank up to the heads with the pad buried. The owner died of bone cancer several years later after coming back from Viet Nam (likely agent orange) so the car sat for years in his parents back yard rotting until I bought it. The pad was pitted a lot and you can hardly make out the stampings but the numbers are there no less.

Mike

I believe the pad is legit.  Disclaimer - At least by the pics shown.   ;)

I can make out the rear BU code, but not the date?

Based on the pics provided, overspary inside and on the frame rails, it appears that it could have been an original Hugger Orange Camaro.

Wouldn't blacked out rockers be correct for this RS?

That would be correct.
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: x77-69z28 on February 03, 2014, 06:14:08 PM
Small detail, but the car has gauges, but no clock. Hmmmmm
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: BULLITT65 on February 03, 2014, 06:21:32 PM
Another "small" detail the drivers door likely has been replaced, it should have 2 ribs moulded into the door for the blue vin sticker (which also isn't present). I know Gary's car has the ribs and the original sticker .... ;)
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: BULLITT65 on February 03, 2014, 06:23:06 PM
Also should have side post battery cables, right?
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: cook_dw on February 03, 2014, 06:53:06 PM
Correct.
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: 69Z28-RS on February 03, 2014, 08:03:06 PM
OK..  I called and arranged to go by and look at the car this morning.  I met with Brandon Damson (grandson of owner, Jerry Damson), and Rick Hall (employee of the dealership).   Both guys I met are knowledable car guys (Brandon is fairly young) and Rick is around 60 and a lifelong Chevy car guy (but neither are 'experts' on the '69 Camaro to the degree of we Camaro freaks on CRG.. :) ..  

Brandon's grandfather purchased the car 2 yrs ago from the owner of a Gadsden AL Nissan dealership (the car was on their showroom floor for some period of time, and called 'finished'), although Rick told me there were a number of things they did after they purchased it (rebuilt the rear end for one thing), and they exchanged the 'reproduction standard seat covers' for the houndstooth repro interior (to match the installed custom interior door panels).  The owner Jerry Damson has owned the Honda dealership here in Huntsville for many years, and before that had a used car lot here in town.   He and his son (Deke) have been acquiring quite a collection of 'collector cars' over the past 15-20 yrs.  The '69 Z28 was sitting next to a very nice and original '68 Z28, in the midst of nearly forty cars or more? other exrremely nice cars (from woody wagons of the 30's up thru a Ferrari and many many more).   I was unable to check over the car very well due to the close quarters.  They offered to move it out but that appeared to require moving many cars, so I did not ask them to do that.   From what I saw, the paint on the exterior of the car is excellent.  I was able to open the hood and look around in the engine compartment.   It has exhaust manifolds without the taps for the smog, and the smog is not present.   It has a 309 master cylinder - dated 146 or 149 best we could see, but I was unable to read/see the stamped US code and nor could be see the stamped codes on the booster.   The ZL2 air cleaner seemed to have the characteristics of an original unit and other ZL2 parts were present.  I could not see/read the date on the hood (due to thick paint), but Brandon said he thought he could see a semblance of a number under the paint.  The hood latches were painted, and the inside of the lower front valence was in red-oxide primer (no overspray).   You fellas have already pointed out a few other things like the battery etc which are incorrect for the timeframe.  I wanted to check the rear end date code, but due to the situation was unable to do so, but Rick did bring up the original higher resolution photos on his computer and we tried to make out the full code..   We *believe* it's a  BU 0810 or 0819G2 which would be in the correct ballpark date wise and the BU code is right.  Rick thought he could make out the 'C' outfront but I couldn't see it well enough to say for certain..?    Oh..  Rick had said in his video and verbiage in the ad, that the shifter was 'wrong', but actually it's correct for '69 (round Hurst shifter handle) with chrome knob.   They thought it was supposed to be like their '68 Z28, so they thought it was incorrect.   Rick and Brandon were very nice and accommodating, and took the comments I made the way they were intended, as educational, and not critical.   Rick told me he could probably find out who restored the car before they purchased it.   I also pointed out to them that they could learn *almost* all the details of the first gen Camaro on the CRG site and forum.  (I say *almost* since we are all still striving to learn more every day).. :)

If anyone is seriously interested in purchase of the car, I'm sure they would move it out, or put it on a lift to allow full inspection, but I didn't want to ask them to do that just so I could see it (I have one like it already).. :)    They also allowed me to take photos of some of the other cars in their warehouse storage, which I appreciated.   The only two of their collection which is for sale is the '69 Z28/RS and a '70 Cuda with 440 six-barrell (in the same ballpark pricewise).
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: Mike S on February 03, 2014, 09:07:30 PM
Gary,

 Did you mention that some here at CRG have doubts of the trim tag to them?

Mike
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: 68camaroz28 on February 03, 2014, 11:51:38 PM
They have stated in a response they have been told the trim tag is a repro.
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: BULLITT65 on February 03, 2014, 11:55:37 PM
interesting, I wonder how it will affect the value.
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: wisemanz28 on February 04, 2014, 12:59:23 AM
Way too much money
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: 1slow64 on February 04, 2014, 01:28:12 AM
$105!?!?! is that a typo?
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: lakeholme on February 04, 2014, 01:37:12 AM
Gary,
Looks like a good evaluation.
I'm sending you a PM
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: cook_dw on February 04, 2014, 02:11:54 AM
Hard to tell but I do not see a speedo hole or holes for the clips.  Surprised no one else noticed this..

No trans hole.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/superslow/T2eC16JHJGEFFm6ZhPFKBSWGYcED3_4_zps9bce2ba8.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/superslow/media/T2eC16JHJGEFFm6ZhPFKBSWGYcED3_4_zps9bce2ba8.jpg.html)

Now theres a hole and its too far back.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/superslow/KGrHqIOKpMFJITn2bBSWGWcbEQ_4_zpsd55e4feb.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/superslow/media/KGrHqIOKpMFJITn2bBSWGWcbEQ_4_zpsd55e4feb.jpg.html)

No reinforcement ring.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/superslow/KGrHqIOKp0FJFIhwPDBSWGZ1pQ_4_zps70a357d0.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/superslow/media/KGrHqIOKp0FJFIhwPDBSWGZ1pQ_4_zps70a357d0.jpg.html)



2 possibilities.

1.  Rebodied car
2.  Faked car and found all the parts.
3.  The tunnel was replaced.

Also Im not 100% convinced that the body wasnt an A/C car.  Hard to tell and it might be the lighting but it looks like metal work on the top of the cowl.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/superslow/T2eC16dHJIYFHOD2TPVBSWGYN36qg_4_zpsb759faa5.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/superslow/media/T2eC16dHJIYFHOD2TPVBSWGYN36qg_4_zpsb759faa5.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: NickeyChicago on February 04, 2014, 02:19:13 AM
1969 Camaros did not have a "reinforcement" ring around the shifter hole and the forward hole which retains the clip for the 4 speed Muncie cable is visible in the pics you posted.
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: 1968RSZ28 on February 04, 2014, 02:24:25 AM
1969 Camaos did not have a "reinforcement" ring around the shifter hole and the forward hole which retains the clip for the 4 speed cable is visible in the pics you posted.

Actually, 1969 Camaros with a 3-speed manual without a console did have a reinforcement ring.   :)

Paul
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: cook_dw on February 04, 2014, 02:26:07 AM
You are correct about the ring.  I was looking at my 68 when I typed that.  And now that you mention it I do see the clip hole in the tunnel now too.  But that could have been drilled after the fact.  Still a lot of questions on this car that make you raise an eyebrow.
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: cook_dw on February 04, 2014, 02:27:17 AM


Actually, 1969 Camaros with a 3-speed manual without a console did have a reinforcement ring.   :)

Paul

Wonder why.  Its not like the console gave the floor any support.   ???
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: 69Z28-RS on February 04, 2014, 03:08:43 AM
Gary,
Did you mention that some here at CRG have doubts of the trim tag to them?
Mike

Yes, I told them that some had expressed that view, and I also told them how to get to CRG and the forum.
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: 69Z28-RS on February 04, 2014, 03:37:53 AM
Attached are a couple of photos which show how closely the cars were packed in this large building.  No room to open doors or do much of anything, and my camera began acting up for some reason which impacted my photo taking.

I also sent Rick a copy of my posting on the CRG, and I received back this response from him.
"Hey Gary this car is Actually Deke's which is Brandon's dad.  I 'll be glad to get any info for anyone interested to help document this car but my eyes don't let me see the small details anymore so I have to rely on the pictures or someone with eyes that can.  Thanks Rick "
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: BULLITT65 on February 04, 2014, 04:30:49 AM
when are they going to be off loading the 68 Z?
Title: Re: 69 Z on ebay - twin
Post by: cook_dw on February 04, 2014, 05:37:51 PM


Actually, 1969 Camaros with a 3-speed manual without a console did have a reinforcement ring.   :)

Paul

Wonder why.  Its not like the console gave the floor any support.   ???

Nevermind.  After rereading your post you say without console.  I need my eyes checked.. :'(