CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: Birdleg on January 26, 2014, 10:56:25 PM
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Hello I am new to this forum but have been reading your research for a while trying to identify what my dads 1968 camaro was originally from the factory. I do not have the original motor or transmission and unfortunately do not have any documentation from factory or dealer to my knowledge.
my VIN is 124378n329061
Trim Tag is 10B
ST 68-12437 NOR 30030
TR 724 CC
the car has the 4-leaf spring setup in the rear and did have the cross ram air throttle cable on it when i started working on it. I do not know if these are signs of it being a z28 or it is just somethings that a previous owner had put on it.
The car was my dads and he bought it back in the 90's to restore. I helped him when I was a kid but then he came down with cancer and passed away. It was sitting in an old chicken house of my grandmothers for 13 years before i pulled it out last year and started to get ready to restore it. Like I stated before I do not have any documentation from any previous owners or the factory nor do I know who all the previous owners were but I would just like to know as much as i can before i start restoring because I would like to restore it as close to original as possible with the information I have. I know it is not much but all feedback and knowledge I can get from this post would be much appreciated thanks.
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Welcome. Take some pics of the firewall, rearend stampings, trans tunnel from underneath and from inside the interior, radiator tag, what type of brakes does it have? Also just out of curiousity what type of door glass does this car have? Is there any etching that says Astro Ventilation?
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It would help to know the rear axle code too... http://www.camaros.org/drivetrain.shtml#axle
Paul
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A big welcome to the site, there, Birdleg! Isn't it nice to have an aspiration and a dream? I applaud your interest in your new found toy. Your dad would be proud to know you have taken the baton and are ready to take this old gal to it's next level. Too soon now, but someday I hope you can look back and say it was worth the efforts you will dedicate to the car and likewise, look back and say how fortunate you were to stumble on to the CRG! You see, there is a wealth of knowledge here and although your dad is not there to help, you will find a lot of "father" figures who will take you under their wing. Why? I think I can speak for our group in saying that we have a passion for these cars, a dedication in being true and factual and an enthusiasm that all generations are still finding an interest and love affair in keeping these cars alive. Good luck and post often.
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It has disc front and rear drum brakes and yes the windows say astro ventilation. The rear axle casting # is 3894859nf and stamp is BP 0812 G or C it was hard to see. My pictures are too large to upload how do i resize them to be able to post them?
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Read Kurt's pic posting info HERE. (http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=4896.0) Including Reply 4 about resizing...
Welcome to the site!
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here are the photos asked for
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Factory A/C would rule out being a Z/28. Appears to be a factory automatic as well which was not an option with a Z/28.
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The rear axle casting # is 3894859nf and stamp is BP 0812 G or C it was hard to see.
G is correct and a BP rear axle wouldn't have been installed on a Z28.
Paul
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Originally a SB auto with AC car. Which small block is the question....
Is the tire sticker on the inside of the glovebox door?
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The auto trans was put in by my dad i'm not sure if it was factory auto or not. and there is no sticker in glove box I have yet to pull down the gas tank to see if there is a build sheet or anything stuck on top of it.
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Check the routing of the speedo cable as well. Also look for the back up light switch bulkhead in the lower firewall area.
It does appear to have factory air, plus the presence (or lack of) a cutout for a factory four-speed shifter does appear to rule out a Z. Nice car to start with, in any event.
Welcome to the Forum -
Regards,
Steve
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Thanks I will look into that. There is no definite way to tell if it was a factory rs car without documentations is there? because it has all the rs package parts on the car but I don't know whether that was put on by a previous owner or not.
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I have yet to pull down the gas tank to see if there is a build sheet or anything stuck on top of it.
There won't be anything on the top of the gas tank on a Norwood car.
Paul
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There is no definite way to tell if it was a factory rs car without documentations is there? because it has all the rs package parts on the car but I don't know whether that was put on by a previous owner or not.
There are many clues with Z22! Read this link (see Rally Sport (Z22)) ... http://www.camaros.org/options.shtml#id
Paul
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You can rule out the Rally Sport. For the base LF7 (327/210) and the optional L30 (327/275), the BP axle (2.73) came on non-RS cars. (RS cars got a 3.08.) And as memtioned before, you don't have the factory hole for the 4 speed, so the car came with a Powerglide automatic transmission.
So no way to know for sure which engine it originally came with, but the more common engine by a long shot was the base LF7 (124,870 vs 21,686 L30's), so that's probably what the car started life as.
Ed
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Wasn't the 2.73 gear optional even for RS cars?
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No, the optional ratios were 2.56 (economy) or 3.55 (performance).
Ed
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Ed,
I'm curious, where did you find this information?
Paul
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No, the optional ratios were 2.56 (economy) or 3.55 (performance).
Ed
Thanks Ed.. :) (I learn a little tiny bit more each day).. :)
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I'm curious, where did you find this information?
The "1968 Camaro Power Teams" chart.
Ed
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The "1968 Camaro Power Teams" chart.
You're right Ed! I never read the tiny note on the bottom of the chart, "3.08:1 when Rally Sport is specified"
Thank you,
Paul
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You can rule out the Rally Sport. For the base LF7 (327/210) and the optional L30 (327/275), the BP axle (2.73) came on non-RS cars. (RS cars got a 3.08.)
Did RS cars get 3.08 also for '67? The BP axle code on the chart here shows 3.08 in '67 but changing to 2.73 in '68.
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Did RS cars get 3.08 also for '67?
Yep. For 67 and 68, the LF7 and L30 (with Powerglide) received the 2.73 10 bolt axle unless the car also had the RS option. If it did, then it received the 3.08 10 bolt axle.
Ed
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I wouldn't rule out an RS just on the basis of the axle.
Are there backup lights under the rear bumper?
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I wouldn't rule out an RS just on the basis of the axle.
True, if that axle isn't original to that car, but the date code of 08-12 indicates it might be. (2 months prior to the cars assembly, but still within the accepted range)
However, to verify, the casting date on the center section should be examined. If it's August of 1968, then it's probably original.
Ed
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Why would RS change axle ratio? Added weight?
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Did RS cars get 3.08 also for '67?
Yep. For 67 and 68, the LF7 and L30 (with Powerglide) received the 2.73 10 bolt axle unless the car also had the RS option. If it did, then it received the 3.08 10 bolt axle.
Ed
Thanks Ed.
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Why would RS change axle ratio? Added weight?
Correct. However, in 1969 they realized it really didn't make that much of a difference because there wasn't a ratio change for RS cars that year.
Ed
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thanks for the info guys sorry i had college all day today and didnt have a chance to get on here. yes KurtS the backup lights are under the bumper and also has the hidden headlights like in RS but like i said earlier this could have been installed by a previous owner so i have no real way to tell if it is original. whether or not the car is just a base camaro or RS or anything else really is just for my own curiosity in being able to know what it was originally but other than that there is no monetary value for me needing to know because i dont plan on ever selling the car. it is just nice to know what I have and i really appreciate the insight you guys have given me so far thank you.
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You need to look at the details then.
http://www.camaros.org/options.shtml#rs
We need to add pics of the 67/68 backup light holes to that page...
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In going to that link provided by Kurt, to check out what appears to be new information and photos, I also noticed this photo for the LH side frame rail doubler for mounting the LH exhaust (for dual exhaust):
http://www.camaros.org/images/pages/options/exh_doubler.jpg
The doubler shown seems to be correct, but that photo also shows an incorrect exhaust hanger. Wouldn't it be better to show the *correct* exhaust hanger, or no hangar at all? Here are two photos showing what I mean.
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so if there is the doubler for the exhaust mount on mine it could be another hint that it could be rs or could still be just a base coupe? I will have to check tomorrow to see if i can spot a doubler on the frame
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The existence of the factory doubler on the LH rear frame rail only indicates that dual exhaust were installed from the factory .. ie.. Z28, and SS and COPO I would imagine.
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That plate wasn't used in 67 or 68. For those two years they used threaded inserts. The plate was a 69 only thing.
(For 68, check out the AIM, UPC NF2, Sheet A4, item 12 or UPC N10, Sheet A4, item 12)
However, even if the car has the inserts, it only proves it came with dual exhaust, which was optional on both the LF7 and the L30. If it doesn't have the inserts, the car came with single exhaust which was standard on both the LF7 and the L30.
Ed
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correct dual exhaust hangers for 67-8 look like this, these are not repros either:
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I added the pic of the 68 RS backup light hole. Thanks Victor!
http://www.camaros.org/options.shtml#rs
In going to that link provided by Kurt, to check out what appears to be new information and photos, I also noticed this photo for the LH side frame rail doubler for mounting the LH exhaust (for dual exhaust):
http://www.camaros.org/images/pages/options/exh_doubler.jpg
The doubler shown seems to be correct, but that photo also shows an incorrect exhaust hanger.
Those pics have been there for 3-4 years. :)
The pic of the doubler show the whole wheelwell, so someone knows where to look.