CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: bertfam on January 16, 2014, 07:53:11 PM

Title: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: bertfam on January 16, 2014, 07:53:11 PM
Well, now you can find out EXACTLY what dealer your car was delivered to!

Starting in mid April, 2014, the National Corvette Restorers Society (NCRS) will now be able to tell you the ordering dealer code, dealer name, dealer location, and the production date that your car (1965 through 1972 for Camaro, Chevelle and Nova) was produced!

Now you can have the same information that was previously only available to 1962-1975 Corvettes. Armed with this data, you may be able to find the original dealer where your car was shipped, and possibly find out more information about your Chevrolet.

The Shipping Data Report can only be ordered online but membership in NCRS is NOT required. Fees will be $50 payable by credit card or PayPal and you will receive via USPS a letter with the information which includes the NCRS official seal. Note that in limited cases the dealer code may not be available or readable, and in this case a full refund will be made.

For more information, click https://www.chevymuscledocs.com/ and again, note that this service starts in mid April, 2014.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: vtfb68 on January 16, 2014, 08:05:57 PM
Awesome! Thank's ED for that infomation, I will sure use it.
    Victor
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: cook_dw on January 16, 2014, 08:21:20 PM
I saw that this morning.  Good stuff.  Definitely will be taking advantage of this service once its available. 
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: festival on January 17, 2014, 12:08:12 AM
Excellent!
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: janobyte on January 17, 2014, 12:34:05 AM
Ignorant on this, assuming submit vin ? Pretty neat ,looking forward to giving it a try. #1 looked but retained no paperwork ( at first he thought he might have) Luckily POP was kept in the glove compartment--in the owner's manual. All these years.( In my safe now.)
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: LVN 67 on January 17, 2014, 12:47:02 AM
Thanks Ed. Any additional info I can find about my car is always a big plus.   :)
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: VINCE Z28 on January 17, 2014, 12:53:27 AM
Ok so NCRS can give up dealer information. How might this give you guys any more then when, where and who, on your cars? Lots of the dealers have closed or records are long gone after 40 years. And most State DMV's woun't give out information without a court order. Am I missing something here?
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: cook_dw on January 17, 2014, 01:36:38 AM
It can give someone a shot of finding what state their car came from.  From there a possible title search can be done in hopes of finding original owner. ;)
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 68camaroz28 on January 17, 2014, 02:16:56 AM
Ok so NCRS can give up dealer information. How might this give you guys any more then when, where and who, on your cars? Lots of the dealers have closed or records are long gone after 40 years. And most State DMV's woun't give out information without a court order. Am I missing something here?
It's helped many NCRS members find info pertaining to their corvettes!
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: z28z11 on January 17, 2014, 04:23:46 AM
Tantalizing, to be sure. If the NCRS can pry this out of GM Heritage, it makes you wonder what GM is still has up the corporate sleeve and keeping from us (take the Pontiac records disclosure as an example)? Sure, they are a private company; sure, they are probably worried about legal ramifications, but why not help us out big time and kick the fraud out of the hobby ?

Wishful thinking, only. I definitely welcome the chance to find out some additional info on a couple of my "investments".

Regards -
Steve
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: jpfanne on January 17, 2014, 04:29:10 AM
I have the original POP on my car that shows the original owner and selling dealership.  Will this information from NCRS provide anything that I don't already have?  The build sheet is what I'm after to see what options my car was born with.

Thanks,
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: z28z11 on January 17, 2014, 04:33:46 AM
I have the original POP on my car that shows the original owner and selling dealership.  Will this information from NCRS provide anything that I don't already have?  The build sheet is what I'm after to see what options my car was born with.
Thanks,

I don't think so - you're already way ahead of the curve (and a lot of us) with the P-O-P. Better documentation doesn't happen - You might consider putting that $50.00 fee on parts or supplies -

Regards,
Steve
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: VINCE Z28 on January 17, 2014, 05:27:03 AM
Guys woun't your money be better spent on having say... Jerry MacNeish come out and certify your car, as to what it is or is not? I know he can't supply you with photo's taken back in the day, or the POP. I can understand we all want original paper work on our cars, but it's 40 plus years later. People pass on, paper work gets thrown away.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 68 Ragtop on January 17, 2014, 06:42:12 AM
Tantalizing, to be sure. If the NCRS can pry this out of GM Heritage, it makes you wonder what GM is still has up the corporate sleeve and keeping from us (take the Pontiac records disclosure as an example)? Sure, they are a private company; sure, they are probably worried about legal ramifications, but why not help us out big time and kick the fraud out of the hobby ?

Wishful thinking, only. I definitely welcome the chance to find out some additional info on a couple of my "investments".

Regards -
Steve

Is this information actually coming from GM Heritage, or are they just allowing it to be released from a third party source such as National Insurance Crime Bureau (NICB)?

AFAIK, this information has been known as recorded by NICB, but only accessible under special circumstances. It seems NCRS has arranged access for the common man. Great news.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 68 Ragtop on January 17, 2014, 06:46:04 AM
I have the original POP on my car that shows the original owner and selling dealership.  Will this information from NCRS provide anything that I don't already have?  The build sheet is what I'm after to see what options my car was born with.

Thanks,


You have what you believe is the original POP. What if the records show an altogether different dealer than the one shown on your POP?

I am sure this will catch more than one person by surprise. Maybe not you, but for sure there are a lot of made up POP's out there with guestimated dealerships that are not going to match official records.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 68 Ragtop on January 17, 2014, 06:51:31 AM
Guys woun't your money be better spent on having say... Jerry MacNeish come out and certify your car, as to what it is or is not? I know he can't supply you with photo's taken back in the day, or the POP. I can understand we all want original paper work on our cars, but it's 40 plus years later. People pass on, paper work gets thrown away.

I don't think you are going to get much out of Jerry for $50. Even if you purchase a full blown "certification" what you will get is Jerry's expert opinion on what the car is today. I would bet even Jerry would recommend this service, or provide it as part of his appraisal.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 68 Ragtop on January 17, 2014, 06:59:48 AM
Well, now you can find out EXACTLY what dealer your car was delivered to!

Starting in mid April, 2014, the National Corvette Restorers Society (NCRS) will now be able to tell you the dealer code, dealer name, dealer location and the production date your car (1965 through 1972 for Camaro, Chevelle and Nova) was produced!

Now you can have the same information that was previously only available to 1962-1975 Corvettes. Armed with this data, you may be able to find the original dealer where your car was shipped, and possibly find out more information about your Chevrolet.

The Shipping Data Report can only be ordered online but membership in NCRS is NOT required. Fees will be $50 payable by credit card or PayPal and you will receive via USPS a letter with the information which includes the NCRS official seal. Note that in limited cases the dealer code may not be available or readable, and in this case a full refund will be made.

For more information, click HERE (http://www.chevymuscledocs.com/) and again, note that this servoce starts in mid April, 2014.

This is great news Ed.  I will try it as soon as it is available. I have always suspected my car was sold locally and never ventured far from SoCal. It even has a California dealers license plate frame that may be original. If not, at least I will know what to look for in the future.

Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: Kelley W King on January 17, 2014, 09:21:31 PM
I will cerntainly use it. Both my 69,s history stops in the 70,s. My Z is reportly a Scuncio High Performance car with some items to prove it but this would be the icing on the cake. My L78 is documented to the 70,s in PA. If that is where is was sold I know where to look harder.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: NoYenko on January 18, 2014, 03:58:26 AM
Ed thanks for the info, that is great news that I might be able to find history beyond 30 years ago. My history trail stops at a used car lost around 1983. George
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: x66 714 on January 18, 2014, 05:10:31 AM
I have the MSO on both of my cars. Should I expect anything more?...Joe
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: JKZ27 on January 18, 2014, 01:56:10 PM
Anyone know if there was much dealer exchanging going on back then? Where the delivered to dealer may be different than the selling dealer?

Very exciting info! I already know where my 69 came from, Eaton Chevrolet in Washington, DC, but I'm excited to learn more about my 68.
I've known my 69 was ordered and sold by Eaton Chevy for about 10 years now but, other than the building still there, I haven't found ANY other info about the dealership...no history, no ads, no promos or name plates...No nothin.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: JohnZ on January 18, 2014, 03:29:05 PM
I have the MSO on both of my cars. Should I expect anything more?...Joe

No. You already have the VIN, date produced, and dealer (on the MSO).
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: VINCE Z28 on January 18, 2014, 03:51:35 PM
John Z do you know of any state that allows us to do a title search on our 1st gen camaro's?
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: VINCE Z28 on January 18, 2014, 04:19:46 PM
Here is paper work from the Oregon DMV transfering a 69 camaro from one dealer to the other for a customer.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: MyRed67 on January 19, 2014, 03:45:31 AM

Thanks Ed!  I think it will be $50 well spent in my case.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: Stingr69 on January 20, 2014, 09:29:38 PM
:)  I did it for my Corvette and it was almost as good as a window sticker.  Hope this is close to what I got for the Vette.  Well worth the cost.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: x66 714 on January 20, 2014, 09:32:42 PM
Stingr69
Could you post a picture of what you received?
Thanks, Joe
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: cam69aro on January 21, 2014, 07:18:45 AM
i would like to see what you got too Stingr, i know what dealer my car came from and it is still around but called them and all the records from that far back are long gone.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: tom on January 21, 2014, 10:11:37 AM
Would love to see what they produce for a Camaro.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on January 21, 2014, 02:48:13 PM
i would like to see what you got too Stingr, i know what dealer my car came from and it is still around but called them and all the records from that far back are long gone.

I'm in the same boat at you; I know the dealer (about 30 miles from me), and I went to visit them in the late '70's after I purchased the car, in attempt to get a copy of their records, but even at that time, I was told the records were either destroyed, or stored away in a warehouse, and not available...?
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: lakeholme on January 21, 2014, 05:24:02 PM
i would like to see what you got too Stingr, i know what dealer my car came from and it is still around but called them and all the records from that far back are long gone.

I'm in the same boat at you; I know the dealer (about 30 miles from me), and I went to visit them in the late '70's after I purchased the car, in attempt to get a copy of their records, but even at that time, I was told the records were either destroyed, or stored away in a warehouse, and not available...?

Me three, when it comes to the original dealership.  JohnZ reminds us that Chevrolet was in the business of selling cars.  Same thing is true for dealers.  Apparently, I have had much better luck researching car histories with DMVs. I'd suggest anyone trying to work with a DMV not start with "I'm trying to find the owner".  You need to send a letter on letterhead (look official) and stress words like restoration and documentation of the car.  If this service can give you the original dealer and you are the current owner with the VIN, you may get lucky.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: cook_dw on January 21, 2014, 05:29:38 PM
Most DMV's have a form to fill out online.  I have done 2 different states with both having success and it gave me all the previous owners info as well (with the exception of TN only going back 2 previous owners).  Like Phillip said its all in how you present your case.  You may also have to get your request notarized  before sending it in.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 6667ss138 on January 22, 2014, 02:58:44 AM
 I think this is great news and I will definitely spend the $50. I already know the dealership on two of my cars but it will just be one more piece of documentation to authenticate my cars in a fraudulent car world.
I have also had great success with the DMV title histories. Its a lot more possible than people think in a lot of states and yes how you word your request is important.
I also agree with an earlier post concerning some people that have what they think are the "original" POP's, window stickers and build sheets. Probably going to be some very unhappy folks when they get there report and will probably will cause some law suits and justifiably so.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: paceme on January 22, 2014, 03:33:30 AM
My understanding is that the documentation being released will not identify options, but will provide dealer with zone# , wholesale invoice # and body #. Perhaps more information will be available or found in the future but that is what I've been told will be provided on the April launch date. This is great news and will provide many owners a trail to the dealer and previous owners and with some luck a pot of gold (documentation).
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 4P-O1 on January 22, 2014, 05:06:52 AM
A question for anybody who has had success getting info from a DMV,
 Whay kind of information did they have? Anything pertaining to the build of the car? Maybe the shippers form,or order form?

 The reason that I'm asking is I am trying to go this route to find the build info for a 67 that I have. On the first attempt,I got nowhere. (they did cash my check and say thanks for the payment,though ::)) I'll have to reword my request and make another attempt. I do know the selling dealer(from an old NCIB report),but they did not have any records back that far.
 Thanks guys, Andrew
 
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: VINCE Z28 on January 22, 2014, 06:43:28 AM
When I did my car back in the early 1990's, all you needed was the VIN or the lic. plate number. What I got was any paper work the State had on car. Previous owner's that registered the car in their names all the way back to original owner. From there I got the POP, pictures of the car, and his stories of back in the day with said car. Now day's it's not that easy. Let's here from the guys on this site that have been successful lately, getting this information. Details please. 8)
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: hgger69 on January 22, 2014, 09:48:33 AM
What are the possibilities for me, as an foreign Camaro-owner, to get such information regarding my car that you all mention here? And what is DMV?
All I have is the original licence plates, including the HGGER69 one, and the VIN!
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: tom on January 22, 2014, 11:10:02 AM
DMV = Divison of Motor Vehicles
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 68 Ragtop on January 22, 2014, 05:23:40 PM
My understanding is that the documentation being released will not identify options, but will provide dealer with zone# , wholesale invoice # and body #. Perhaps more information will be available or found in the future but that is what I've been told will be provided on the April launch date.

Is your source an insider at GM or just a guy who heard from a guy who read it on the internet?

I ask because that is different information than what is stated in the OP and in the link provided to the service. It says nothing about wholesale invoice # and body #.

Quote
Shipping Data Report Service: The information consists of the dealer code, dealer name, dealer address and the date the car was produced.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: paceme on January 22, 2014, 05:50:04 PM


68 Rag:

 I was given the info from an NCRS member who is involved with the program. BTW the wholesale invoice # and body # may be one in the same. 

My understanding is that the documentation being released will not identify options, but will provide dealer with zone# , wholesale invoice # and body #. Perhaps more information will be available or found in the future but that is what I've been told will be provided on the April launch date.

Is your source an insider at GM or just a guy who heard from a guy who read it on the internet?

I ask because that is different information than what is stated in the OP and in the link provided to the service. It says nothing about wholesale invoice # and body #.




Quote
Shipping Data Report Service: The information consists of the dealer code, dealer name, dealer address and the date the car was produced.
[/quote

Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 68 Ragtop on January 22, 2014, 08:45:23 PM


68 Rag:

 I was given the info from an NCRS member who is involved with the program. BTW the wholesale invoice # and body # may be one in the same. 

He may be misinformed. Can he provide you with an example Corvette document that shows more information than this?

(http://www.web-cars.com/images/vette_img/NCRS_Safari_roots-001_a.jpg)
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: VINCE Z28 on January 22, 2014, 09:06:09 PM
Ragtop was this what you got for $50.00?
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on January 22, 2014, 09:35:18 PM
Guys you will get exactly what the above report shows. The Shipping Data Records do contain the wholesale invoice number, order number and indent number. these numbers are not released with this information and will not be provided from this information.  The reason for that will become obvious at some point, but we do know at this point that some plants, some years one or more of those three numbers may be located on your cowl tag, or window sticker, or wholesale invoice, or car shipper, or build sheet, or MSO, etc.  For that reason the numbers will not be released, they would only serve to assist the counterfeiters. Because of the way the three strings were created at original order conception they are unpredictable and unpublished but great tools for ferreting out in some cases bogus items such as build sheets, window stickers, cowl tags, MSO, etc. ;)

I should add for 68 Ragtop - one of these numbers may or may not appear on the cowl tag and it may or may not always be in the body number location, more research is needed before we make a flat statement such as your "BTW the wholesale invoice # and body # may be one in the same"
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: paceme on January 22, 2014, 09:39:52 PM
The source I'm getting my imformation is very knowledgeable and I had him restate the information that was to be provided. I believe these GM records are from a different dept/source from where the corvette records were obtained. This is my understanding but we will see. BTW I sent you a PM.  



68 Rag:

 I was given the info from an NCRS member who is involved with the program. BTW the wholesale invoice # and body # may be one in the same.  

He may be misinformed. Can he provide you with an example Corvette document that shows more information than this?

(http://www.web-cars.com/images/vette_img/NCRS_Safari_roots-001_a.jpg)
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: Mike S on January 22, 2014, 09:44:23 PM
 Is this a service GM themselves would also provide (for a fee no doubt)? Is NCRS just one more source acting as an outlet?

Mike
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: paceme on January 22, 2014, 10:08:34 PM


My understanding NCRS will be providing the service as they do for the Corvette. GM & NCRS have some type of agreement and GM provided the access to the records.

Is this a service GM themselves would also provide (for a fee no doubt)? Is NCRS just one more source acting as an outlet?

Mike
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 68 Ragtop on January 23, 2014, 12:29:31 AM
Ragtop was this what you got for $50.00?

It's not mine, but I have seen several Corvette NCRS shipping reports and they all look like this.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 68 Ragtop on January 23, 2014, 12:35:30 AM
The source I'm getting my imformation is very knowledgeable and I had him restate the information that was to be provided. I believe these GM records are from a different dept/source from where the corvette records were obtained. 

That would be fantastic. It always seems like the Corvette is GM's favorite so for Camaro owners to get a more detailed report would be quite an accomplishment.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on January 23, 2014, 04:08:57 AM
the source for the new Camaro, Nova and Chevelle information is the same source used for the Corvette. the records belong to GM. NCRS has been granted permission to access these records and provide the service for Camaro, Nova and Chevelle. It's that simple.

I know - it's my signature on the NCRS paperwork and unless things change within NCRS I most likely will be doing it for the other documents as well.

Believe me if NCRS had access to anything else it would also be available.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 1968RSZ28 on January 23, 2014, 04:20:14 AM
the source for the new Camaro, Nova and Chevelle information is the same source used for the Corvette. the records belong to GM. NCRS has been granted permission to access these records and provide the service for Camaro, Nova and Chevelle. It's that simple.

I know - it's my signature on the NCRS paperwork and unless things change within NCRS I most likely will be doing it for the other documents as well.

Believe me if NCRS had access to anything else it would also be available.

Hi Roy,

Any chance on a discount for this service for CRG members?   :)

Paul
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: cam69aro on January 23, 2014, 05:40:58 AM
so if i order this information will it say whether or not my car was produced as a z28 or SS ? that would be the main reason i would want it. they must have that information available if they know what dealer the car went to and when the car was built.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rare396bronze on January 23, 2014, 06:01:25 AM
So what i am reading from this form it will not tell you what options came on the car. I have my mso & dealer invoice with options that came on car. Did title search with tennessee dmv years ago before the privacy act & received all this from them also all previos owners names. So for me it would be waste off my money to order this form. Shame it is not the copy off the shipper invoice because it would cut down more on the want a be car & will help lot off people from scammed. But on the bright side it will help some people know were there car came from & build dates!
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on January 23, 2014, 01:49:20 PM
the source for the new Camaro, Nova and Chevelle information is the same source used for the Corvette. the records belong to GM. NCRS has been granted permission to access these records and provide the service for Camaro, Nova and Chevelle. It's that simple.

I know - it's my signature on the NCRS paperwork and unless things change within NCRS I most likely will be doing it for the other documents as well.

Believe me if NCRS had access to anything else it would also be available.

Hi Roy,

Any chance on a discount for this service for CRG members?   :)

Paul

Paul, NCRS is a not for profit organization, they have non NCRS members join NCRS before they can receive the Corvette Data! Given that bit of information I think they are giving you a discount, if your a Camaro, Chevelle or Nova guy you don't have to join NCRS to get the data. So in effect it is a discount already, the price of this service is controlled by GM.

Seriously, I lobbied NCRS hard to get this stuff released for these Marques, when it became obvious we had it all in the records we found for the Corvette. NCRS had to determine if they could handle the process just for the Corvette, once we got that under control, we went back to GM and said OK let us do the same thing for the other cars.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on January 23, 2014, 01:51:20 PM
so if i order this information will it say whether or not my car was produced as a z28 or SS ? that would be the main reason i would want it. they must have that information available if they know what dealer the car went to and when the car was built.

Short answer No.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: Charley on January 23, 2014, 02:37:45 PM
Thanks again Roy. This is a great service.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on January 23, 2014, 03:03:41 PM
Thanks again Roy. This is a great service.

Charley,

I think once we get our feet on the ground with this service and begin too figure out exactly what we can and cant do with it there are all kinds of possibilities.  I personally appreciate your support in this. It was huge step for the NCRS board to approve this, they are after all a Corvette club and convincing them they owed it to the rest of the Hobbyist to provide the information it was no minor feat.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: bertfam on January 23, 2014, 03:34:18 PM
Roy, I'm assuming this info is on microfiche like the GM of Canada shippers, but did GM give the microfiche sheets to the NCRS or do you have to contact someone at the Herritage Center for the info when you get a request?

Ed
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on January 23, 2014, 04:08:54 PM
Roy, I'm assuming this info is on microfiche like the GM of Canada shippers, but did GM give the microfiche sheets to the NCRS or do you have to contact someone at the Herritage Center for the info when you get a request?

Ed


Ed, It gets very complicated and long to explain, yes the information is on microfiche. The problem is it is all Chevrolet production, there is 1926 Chevrolet roadster stuff on one page I looked at.  so we have 22 cars per page on the microfiche. That's 22 Chevrolets not 22 69 Norwood Camaros. imagine now Chevrolet complete production history. we are talking 100,000's pages of microfiche maybe Millions of pages.  We contracted with an outside service to scan these pages and digitize them so we could create a searchable file by VIN. These records ultimately were filtered so that we just have the Camaro, Chevelle, and Nova production plant records. The initial retrieval some three years ago was just the Corvette plant, with that we still got light duty, medium duty trucks, Corvair Greenbriers, and Biscayne station wagons because they were all built in St Louis, I digress. This time through the process we refined the scanning process and just pulled 65-72 Camaro, Chevelle and Nova records. Its a huge undertaking, time consuming and expensive. the problem becomes a damaged microfiche record may not scan well, some pages are missing there will be holes in the records, etc.  the end result is NCRS ends up with Searchable DVD's for year groupings and the groupings are not 1st gen second gen they are when one DVD is full we start a second. so 67-68 Camaro are together and 69 -70- Camaro are together. this is not the same page you see from Canada because when we search a Canadian car all we will have depending on the year is something like zone 21 dealer 000, we know that means Canadian export, if you contact Canada with the vin you will get the stuff you guys are use to seeing from Canada.

The records contain only what I have indicated they contained in previous posts nothing more nothing less, for what will become obvious reasons as we progress into these services  the only thing that will be supplied out of these records in the service is the official production date, GM zone and GM dealer. we then take that information and search the GM dealer directories for the time frame to determine the dealer name, city and state.  :)

Long explanation to answer your question by saying yes its similar but no its not the same.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: bertfam on January 23, 2014, 04:19:17 PM
Thanks for the explaination Roy. To boil it all down, it's a major PIA!!

And I can guarantee that MY Camaro will be on one of the missing microfiche pages!!

(By the way, you should also have a request for my 69 Corvette sitting on your desk!)

Ed
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 1968RSZ28 on January 23, 2014, 05:38:43 PM
It gets very complicated and long to explain, yes the information is on microfiche. The problem is it is all Chevrolet production, there is 1926 Chevrolet roadster stuff on one page I looked at.  so we have 22 cars per page on the microfiche. That's 22 Chevrolets not 22 69 Norwood Camaros. imagine now Chevrolet complete production history. we are talking 100,000's pages of microfiche maybe Millions of pages.  We contracted with an outside service to scan these pages and digitize them so we could create a searchable file by VIN. These records ultimately were filtered so that we just have the Camaro, Chevelle, and Nova production plant records. The initial retrieval some three years ago was just the Corvette plant, with that we still got light duty, medium duty trucks, Corvair Greenbriers, and Biscayne station wagons because they were all built in St Louis, I digress. This time through the process we refined the scanning process and just pulled 65-72 Camaro, Chevelle and Nova records. Its a huge undertaking, time consuming and expensive. the problem becomes a damaged microfiche record may not scan well, some pages are missing there will be holes in the records, etc.  the end result is NCRS ends up with Searchable DVD's for year groupings and the groupings are not 1st gen second gen they are when one DVD is full we start a second. so 67-68 Camaro are together and 69 -70- Camaro are together. this is not the same page you see from Canada because when we search a Canadian car all we will have depending on the year is something like zone 21 dealer 000, we know that means Canadian export, if you contact Canada with the vin you will get the stuff you guys are use to seeing from Canada.

The records contain only what I have indicated they contained in previous posts nothing more nothing less, for what will become obvious reasons as we progress into these services  the only thing that will be supplied out of these records in the service is the official production date, GM zone and GM dealer. we then take that information and search the GM dealer directories for the time frame to determine the dealer name, city and state.  :)

Long explanation to answer your question by saying yes its similar but no its not the same.

Roy,

Now that you explained the process, $50.00 is a bargain!  Thanks for your & NCRS' hard work for making this service available for us Camaro lovers.  I can't wait to find out my car's birthday!

Paul
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: BULLITT65 on January 23, 2014, 07:22:04 PM
With items like this being dusted off by GM, 40 to 50 years after the cars were produced, it makes me wonder what else GM has tucked away in their archives: shipping docs, more pertinent info for what cars got certain options. I can imagine a lot of documentation still being tucked away, that may be released slowly and periodically by GM at their discretion I suppose, or maybe as they run across it and come to the idea that there is a huge group of car owners waiting with baited breath for more docs to get released.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: hgger69 on January 23, 2014, 07:31:32 PM
What are the possibilities for me, as an foreign Camaro-owner, to get such information regarding my car that you all mention here? And what is DMV?
All I have is the original licence plates, including the HGGER69 one, and the VIN!
Anyone??
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: bertfam on January 23, 2014, 07:33:54 PM
Quote
What are the possibilities for me, as an foreign Camaro-owner, to get such information regarding my car that you all mention here?

If you have the VIN, you can get the info.

Ed
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: BULLITT65 on January 23, 2014, 07:54:14 PM
Hey Ed, I am glad this was bright to light. How did this information come about?
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: KurtS on January 23, 2014, 08:16:42 PM
Roy,
Thanks for posting the details of the service.

Austin,
The records at GM have sifted thru and examined several times over the years. I believe this is as good as it will get....

Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on January 23, 2014, 09:18:59 PM
Roy,
Thanks for posting the details of the service.

You are welcome.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: Nikke on January 23, 2014, 10:25:19 PM
Thanks Roy.
I really appreciate this.
Hope my cars are listed in the files.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 68camaroz28 on January 24, 2014, 12:07:04 AM
Huge thank you to the NCRS team for taking this on and for Roy to communicate and to be part of that team. I'm an NCRS member and think the organization is first class.
Thanks Roy!
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: BULLITT65 on January 24, 2014, 01:11:17 AM
Thanks Roy for fighting the good fight and getting access to this information. I am surprised the NCRS would have to be convinced to do this though. What was their argument for not doing it?
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 6667ss138 on January 24, 2014, 01:37:30 AM
Thank you Roy! I'm in.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on January 24, 2014, 01:50:10 AM
Thanks Roy for fighting the good fight and getting access to this information. I am surprised the NCRS would have to be convinced to do this though. What was their argument for not doing it?

Pretty simple it took a major financial investment, there is always a possibility the pay out will not be sufficient to cover the investment, they are a Corvette club not a Camaro-Chevelle-Nova club, it also took a manpower restructure and addition so it required a business plan review, we have the GM approval and now we are waiting on the IT guru's to get us online.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: MyRed67 on January 24, 2014, 02:25:57 AM
Thanks Roy for fighting the good fight and getting access to this information. I am surprised the NCRS would have to be convinced to do this though. What was their argument for not doing it?
Thanks Roy, for your time explaining.  And yes, for process involved I believe it is good investment, particularly for those who have nothing.  Cudos also to NCRS.

Pretty simple it took a major financial investment, there is always a possibility the pay out will not be sufficient to cover the investment, they are a Corvette club not a Camaro-Chevelle-Nova club, it also took a manpower restructure and addition so it required a business plan review, we have the GM approval and now we are waiting on the IT guru's to get us online.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: hgger69 on January 24, 2014, 07:20:53 AM
Quote
What are the possibilities for me, as an foreign Camaro-owner, to get such information regarding my car that you all mention here?

If you have the VIN, you can get the info.

Ed

Thanx Ed! :)
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 6667ss138 on January 25, 2014, 11:59:49 PM
Roy or anyone that might have an answer. This question was asked earlier in this thread. I went back and re read and do not see where it was answered.

I have heard that the dealerships have always had exchange programs with other dealers. I'm sure if a customer came in and was only interested in a certain color or option and it wasn't on the lot that the dealer had other dealers to call and I assume this might have happened often. If this did happen wouldn't one's original, authentic POP or window sticker with selling dealership listed be different than the one the NCRS, GM records are going to show?
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: KurtS on January 26, 2014, 12:39:17 AM
Dealers could pull up lists of cars/options available in their area (same thing they do today).
The records would only list the dealer shipped to, not the actual selling dealer for a dealer transfer car.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: JKZ27 on January 26, 2014, 12:50:52 AM
...And I'd guess if one was exchanged to another dealer, it wouldn't be too far from the one that it was shipped to.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 6667ss138 on January 26, 2014, 02:11:24 AM
Dealers could pull up lists of cars/options available in their area (same thing they do today).
The records would only list the dealer shipped to, not the actual selling dealer for a dealer transfer car.
Thanks Kurt,
Sounds like there could be a few that will be left wondering if their POP or window sticker is authentic. Hopefully not but seems to be a real possibility.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on January 26, 2014, 03:39:21 AM
Guys Original GM paper does not get redone by GM in a dealer trade, so the window sticker car shipper build sheet did not change. Protect-o-plate was completed by actual selling dealer even if it was dealer traded. Communication between dealers was sparse back in these days so dealer trades were usually close. They did not have locator systems like those that exist today. In a dealer trade today window sticker still shows original dealer car was billed to.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 6667ss138 on January 26, 2014, 04:33:22 AM
Guys Original GM paper does not get redone by GM in a dealer trade, so the window sticker car shipper build sheet did not change. Protect-o-plate was completed by actual selling dealer even if it was dealer traded. Communication between dealers was sparse back in these days so dealer trades were usually close. They did not have locator systems like those that exist today. In a dealer trade today window sticker still shows original dealer car was billed to.
Thanks Roy,
Just curious. In all of your years of being involved with the NCRS, GM dealer documents for the Corvette's, have you ever seen this scenario where the original POP did not match because of a dealer trade?
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: NoYenko on January 26, 2014, 02:53:53 PM
Roy or anyone that might have an answer. This question was asked earlier in this thread. I went back and re read and do not see where it was answered.

I have heard that the dealerships have always had exchange programs with other dealers. I'm sure if a customer came in and was only interested in a certain color or option and it wasn't on the lot that the dealer had other dealers to call and I assume this might have happened often. If this did happen wouldn't one's original, authentic POP or window sticker with selling dealership listed be different than the one the NCRS, GM records are going to show?

The factory filled out only the top portion of the POP, the other info was labled or written in by the selling dealer. Picture of POP found on Google. George
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: KurtS on January 26, 2014, 06:52:59 PM
I've seen detailed dealer notes for a dealer trade. They noted all the options / colors / costs and which dealer on the various cars they found available for the buyer. Looks like it took a bit of footwork and time on the phone.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: lakeholme on January 26, 2014, 07:12:30 PM
My great-uncle had a Chevy dealership back in the day. He was more than willing to find a car for you --as long as he thought it was going to result in a sale after the time and effort (phone calls, "trading" negotiations and getting the car).  On the whole the possible cars needed to be within a hundred miles of the dealership, and it often depended on whether he had something the other dealer wanted. As I recall the info on the car still had the original dealer info on it.  All my great-uncle wanted with his name on it was the purchase agreement. 
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on January 27, 2014, 03:00:49 AM
Guys Original GM paper does not get redone by GM in a dealer trade, so the window sticker car shipper build sheet did not change. Protect-o-plate was completed by actual selling dealer even if it was dealer traded. Communication between dealers was sparse back in these days so dealer trades were usually close. They did not have locator systems like those that exist today. In a dealer trade today window sticker still shows original dealer car was billed to.
Thanks Roy,
Just curious. In all of your years of being involved with the NCRS, GM dealer documents for the Corvette's, have you ever seen this scenario where the original POP did not match because of a dealer trade?

Yes, in fact I woiuld not expect to if it was a dealer trade, the selling dealer is supposed to complete it.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: Stingr69 on January 29, 2014, 07:41:23 PM
Just to add something to the discussion and respond to the earlier requests....This is what I got when I sent in my money for information on my Corvette.  If we could only have THIS for our Camaros - OMG!

(http://i58.tinypic.com/34erc4g.jpg)

-Mark.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on January 29, 2014, 08:42:34 PM
wow..   that sure looks like more than a 'shipper'... and MUCH More than just the date/dealer...  IS that what you got from NCRS for your Corvette?   I've got a few older Corvettes I'd like to have that for as well.. 
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: paceme on January 29, 2014, 10:14:26 PM
You can get that from GM, I ordered it for my 81 Z28 a couple of years ago. My understanding is that the records are only available from around 1977and newer for chevrolet. I pasted the link to the site below.


http://history.gmheritagecenter.com/wiki/index.php/GM_Vehicle_Invoices,_Build_Records_and_Vintage_Vehicle_Information_Availability


Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on January 29, 2014, 10:37:21 PM
Are you suggesting that Chevrolet continued to build passenger cars AFTER 1972???????

 ;D      ;)
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: z28z11 on January 30, 2014, 04:01:43 AM
Are you suggesting that Chevrolet continued to build passenger cars AFTER 1972???????

 ;D      ;)

Gary - do you not consider a 180 hp 1985 Z/28 to be a passenger car ? Or are you suggesting the 1980 Citation was a sports car (drove both) ? I'm confused -

Just kidding, of course. I did think a lot of my 1976 Malibu Land Barge.

Back on the thread - I do think even the dealer ship to and completion date for two of my vehicles is worthwhile - especially when I don't have that bit of info. One more piece to the puzzle.

Regards -
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on January 30, 2014, 04:40:42 AM
Do I have to answer that?  :)
I will buy their data for my car just to get a GM 'date' (whether it be production date or shipping date), it will be worthwhile.. :)
In fact, I will probably try to get the data for my older Corvettes as well (The '69 is the only one I have protecto plate for, and also have the build sheet from the tank).   
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on January 30, 2014, 06:00:02 PM
Guys the date provided with this service is the official GM Production date, the date is contained in what we call the shipping data record's - but it is the official GM production date, it is not the date the car was shipped, unless of course they shipped it on the production date, I suspect that could happen but probably did not happen often.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: Jon Mello on January 30, 2014, 06:10:28 PM
Roy, I appreciate all your efforts on behalf of Chevrolet enthusiasts.

I have a question. If a car is started on one day and finished on another, which day would be considered the official GM production date?
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on January 30, 2014, 06:16:16 PM
The day it finished! Based on what we understand the production date is the day the car finished and was billed to the dealer.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: Jon Mello on January 30, 2014, 07:33:38 PM
Great info. Thanks, Roy.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 1968RSZ28 on January 30, 2014, 08:12:05 PM
Think of it as your car's birthday!    :)

Paul
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on January 30, 2014, 08:19:13 PM
it WAS the car's birthday...  :)..   The few days in production was the 'incubation' period.. :)
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 1968RSZ28 on January 30, 2014, 08:33:08 PM
it WAS the car's birthday...  :)..   The few days in production was the 'incubation' period.. :)

So Gary, when in this process would you consider is the point of conception?   ;D

Paul
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: VINCE Z28 on January 30, 2014, 08:34:40 PM
What would you consider close.... on my reply # 23 the camaro was transfered 366 miles from Burns, Oregon to Coquille, Oregon. ( Coos Bay Oregon )
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: Mark on January 30, 2014, 08:36:59 PM
it WAS the car's birthday...  :)..   The few days in production was the 'incubation' period.. :)

So Gary, when in this process would you consider is the point of conception?   ;D

Paul

When the zone had finished checking and approving the order and delivered it to the plant for assembly.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on January 30, 2014, 08:56:57 PM
it WAS the car's birthday...  :)..   The few days in production was the 'incubation' period.. :)

So Gary, when in this process would you consider is the point of conception?   ;D

Paul

For me..  the *closest* to that feeling I can imagine.. is the time when you're sitting in the New Car Sales Manager's office, listing out the options and colors I want (Hugger Orange of course)..  and listening to the sales manager tell me..  it will likely be in within 2 or 3 weeks.. :) ...  we'll call you!  :)
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: BULLITT65 on January 30, 2014, 09:10:45 PM
I thought like Gary when you place the order. But then I thought all you did was pay for the date. So then I got very philosophical and thought ok when does it become a car???? with the frame? the body the motor? when the metal is poured into the casting for the motor, or pressed into the body and tack welded ? Or is the rolling chassis like the egg and the motor is the "go" juice ?? So when they are mated together on the line you have conception.  :D   . Obviously this can open further debate....
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 1968RSZ28 on January 30, 2014, 09:18:29 PM
LOL!   :D

Paul
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 6667ss138 on January 31, 2014, 01:40:28 AM
Roy, another question for you please. If a car was a special GM executive purchased car for example, how would that show on the NCRS records?
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on January 31, 2014, 03:26:05 AM
That would probably depend on what you define as special. A car ordered by an executive through the normal new car purchase program would most likely show up as a zone and dealer with the dealer name. Cars for some executives probably went through the zone offices in which case threy show up as the zone office orders. Some of Mr Earl's styling cars show up as GM shop orders. So there a multitude of answes depending on who and why.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 6667ss138 on January 31, 2014, 04:26:53 AM
That makes sense. I can see where there could be many variations. This is all very interesting to me. Thank you for your response!
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: camaroman1969 on February 02, 2014, 01:52:38 AM
Well, now you can find out EXACTLY what dealer your car was delivered to!

Starting in mid April, 2014, the National Corvette Restorers Society (NCRS) will now be able to tell you the dealer code, dealer name, dealer location and the production date your car (1965 through 1972 for Camaro, Chevelle and Nova) was produced!

Now you can have the same information that was previously only available to 1962-1975 Corvettes. Armed with this data, you may be able to find the original dealer where your car was shipped, and possibly find out more information about your Chevrolet.

The Shipping Data Report can only be ordered online but membership in NCRS is NOT required. Fees will be $50 payable by credit card or PayPal and you will receive via USPS a letter with the information which includes the NCRS official seal. Note that in limited cases the dealer code may not be available or readable, and in this case a full refund will be made.

For more information, click HERE (http://www.chevymuscledocs.com/) and again, note that this servoce starts in mid April, 2014.
Ed, Thanks for posting this "long awaited" info on our first Generation Camaros.  I've waited for something like this to be available over the years.  A lot of the Camaro Guru's will jump on this come April.  I know I'll be signing up.  Thanks to all who made this happen!!  Don
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: NickeyChicago on February 04, 2014, 02:00:05 AM
Thanks to Mr. Sinor,  the NCRS and GM as well as anyone involved with facilitating this  process.

We have paid substantially more than $50.00 in order to obtain just part of this info and did not get a nice certificate to go along with it.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 7T8 LT on February 09, 2014, 12:04:27 AM
I just purchased a 1974 Z28 yes i know it's a second gen but I would like to know the history on this car. I do have two 69 Camaro's that will be checked also.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: firstgenaddict on February 26, 2014, 01:01:34 AM
22 per page.... If isolated that is 30,000 pages for the first 3 years of Camaro production. What an enormous amount of work.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: JohnZ on February 26, 2014, 03:21:36 PM
22 per page.... If isolated that is 30,000 pages for the first 3 years of Camaro production. What an enormous amount of work.

Actually, it's much more than that - from Roy Sinor's reply #57 in this thread on January 23rd:

"Ed, It gets very complicated and long to explain, yes the information is on microfiche. The problem is it is all Chevrolet production, there is 1926 Chevrolet roadster stuff on one page I looked at.  so we have 22 cars per page on the microfiche. That's 22 Chevrolets not 22 69 Norwood Camaros. imagine now Chevrolet complete production history. we are talking 100,000's pages of microfiche maybe Millions of pages."

This was NOT a low-budget project. :-)
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: firstgenaddict on March 11, 2014, 07:37:01 PM
Yes exactly what I was saying... If it were isolated it was 30k plus pages for first gen camaros which alone is a monumental task... however as stated it is not isolated so the task becomes exponentially more complicated.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: ZLP955 on March 31, 2014, 08:42:28 PM
Read elsewhere that this service has been delayed from mid-April until July - can anyone involved with NCRS confirm?
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on March 31, 2014, 08:56:23 PM
I can tell you we have moved the target roll out date to May 1st.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: ZLP955 on April 01, 2014, 08:39:15 AM
I can tell you we have moved the target roll out date to May 1st.
Thanks Roy - will be waiting in anticipation like a kid on Christmas Eve!
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on April 01, 2014, 12:31:39 PM
Guys, This project is much more complicated for us than the Corvette roll out was. we were fortunate in dealing with Corvette it was a captive audience, read members only,  so we had all of the contact information and did not have to capture that data it in the order process. It was a simple matter of replying to a profile that was established in our database.

We do not have your addresses and contact information, so we had to create that bridge. 

The more serious issue is the number of production plant facilities that this service encompasses. In the Corvette world we dealt with one plant St. Louis, filtered out the different models that were not Corvette and were ready to go, its not near that simple here.

We have multiple plants, multiple models

We are making progress and while the roll out has been delayed it is going to occur, again the date has been moved to May 1, 2014
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: BULLITT65 on April 01, 2014, 02:48:08 PM
thanks for the continued help in this endeavor!
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: cook_dw on April 29, 2014, 07:56:12 PM
Is May 1st still a go or will there be another delay?
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on April 29, 2014, 08:38:12 PM
 :) May 1st is the roll out, you guys be patient here this thing may be overwhelming initially and we may need some time to get caught up. If it flows like it has with the corvette we hope to work into a two to three week turnaround and as with the corvette if that happens and there is need for an expedited service we may expand the service to offer that, initially we just need to get our feet wet and see where it goes.  ;)
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: BULLITT65 on April 30, 2014, 12:33:14 AM
Well luckily some of us have at least a shred of our dealer info already, and/or would like to see the results, or documentation that gets delivered back to some of the first who order it. So hopefully you aren't inundated from all of us at once.  :)

I look forward to some interesting discoveries, and hopefully mysteries solved.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: ZLP955 on May 01, 2014, 10:50:15 AM
Well, I just paid my $50 so fingers crossed!
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: cook_dw on May 01, 2014, 11:47:42 AM
Well, I just paid my $50 so fingers crossed!

Ditto.  Its the waiting game now.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: z28z11 on May 01, 2014, 12:46:07 PM
X3 - effortless procedure on line. Anxiously await results - one more to do after the first gets back.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on May 01, 2014, 12:56:38 PM
guys be patient the roll out will be a big task on our end, but hopefully we will have no major glitches.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 01, 2014, 01:46:22 PM
NCRS has my $50 already...     #136 at 8:40 am CDT...    :)
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: cook_dw on May 01, 2014, 01:54:56 PM
guys be patient the roll out will be a big task on our end, but hopefully we will have no major glitches.

Pretty sure everyone will be patient as we are very appreciative of the efforts of this service.  If they are not; they are ignorant and need not waste your time.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: elcamino72 on May 01, 2014, 02:03:27 PM
This is a great service to our hobby.  Thanks Roy and a big THANK YOU to the NCRS!
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: BULLITT65 on May 01, 2014, 02:30:16 PM
I hope the first of you guys to get the report back, will please post pics of what is provided, so the rest of us will see it nice and clear.
Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on May 01, 2014, 02:35:25 PM
I hope the first of you guys to get the report back, will please post pics of what is provided, so the rest of us will see it nice and clear.
Thanks in advance!

The shipping data report will be a document very similar to that sown in post #40 of this thread.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 01, 2014, 03:32:34 PM
I hope the first of you guys to get the report back, will please post pics of what is provided, so the rest of us will see it nice and clear.
Thanks in advance!

Bullitt,

Based on what Roy Sinor has told us we will receive, and based on my own car's VIN and dealer tag and label (on the car when I purchased it in 1976), I can predict what my letter will say... :)

---------------------------------
    "Subject to the General Conditions listed on the reverse side, National Corvette Restorerís Society, Inc, confirms the following information exists in the GM shipping data records for the 1969 Camaro with vehicle identification number  124379N686XXX.
                    .
    The GM official Production Date was 9/17/1969

    The original delivery dealer was Dealer code 73   in zone 8 .

    The name and Address for the dealer was:
       Joe V Clayton Chevrolet, Inc
       Arab, AL  35016
"

---------------------------------------------------------------

My only point with this is that most of us know or suspect the information on our cars already, and we can calculate the production date based on the VIN, but what the service does for us is PROVIDE GM CONFIRMATION of that information!  and that is well worth the $50 IMO...   :)

When I get my letter, I'll update this and see how good my prediction was.... :)
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: janobyte on May 01, 2014, 04:46:01 PM
I agree with above. Going to wait for the dust to clear first. Feel they might get overloaded with requests.



Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: VINCE Z28 on May 01, 2014, 06:27:04 PM
I think your dead on Gary W. The plus side is it gives you guys a starting point. But most dealers are not around or the Docs have been thrown out years ago. That said it's worth trying...
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: Conquest396 on May 01, 2014, 08:30:45 PM
Im paid up too. I'll take any morsel of info on the car, it is amazingly appreciated, cant wait !
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: 1968RSZ28 on May 01, 2014, 08:44:25 PM
guys be patient the roll out will be a big task on our end, but hopefully we will have no major glitches.

Roy, would it help if we waited a month or so to order?

Paul
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: ZLP955 on May 01, 2014, 10:07:18 PM
Quote from: 69Z28-RS
what the service does for us is PROVIDE GM CONFIRMATION of that information!
Did you read the disclaimer note on the email confirmation? Not to take anything away from this great service (I have already paid my $50, transaction #39) and it is the best chance many of us have to track down more history on our cars, but the accuracy of the dealer info you will get is entirely dependent on the dealer code database, which did not come from GM.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on May 02, 2014, 01:03:24 AM
Let me put this fire out before it gets started.  Sometimes words get lost in translation.  The dealer database which is linked to the wording in the order process is not what we use. That data base as it explains is hobbyist created, it does provide some invaluable information and we suggest that you input your data when you receive it, but it is not maintained by NCRS it is hobbyist created, therefore not all information in it can be documented or supported. The data you get will come from the GM file. Not the aniline database. ;)
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: BULLITT65 on May 02, 2014, 02:05:26 AM
Does that mean if the hobbyists don't have your dealer in the database it will just be a number, on the report you get from them? Sorry just trying to understand the relationship of who has what information
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on May 02, 2014, 03:01:42 AM
Does that mean if the hobbyists don't have your dealer in the database it will just be a number, on the report you get from them? Sorry just trying to understand the relationship of who has what information

It means that we use GM records not the online database. There will be an occasional deler number and zone we cant read because of missing or damaged microfiche.  There will be an occasional dealer name missing or that we cant read. We have found over 90% in our Corvette research. 
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: BULLITT65 on May 02, 2014, 03:56:58 AM
thanks. so your saying if the original records for some reason got damaged, then the hobbyists may fill in the blanks on dealers. very good.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: ccargo on May 02, 2014, 08:37:14 AM
Hello everyone, is this the same database as NICB?
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: ZLP955 on May 02, 2014, 11:25:34 AM
Let me put this fire out before it gets started.  Sometimes words get lost in translation.  The dealer database which is linked to the wording in the order process is not what we use. That data base as it explains is hobbyist created, it does provide some invaluable information and we suggest that you input your data when you receive it, but it is not maintained by NCRS it is hobbyist created, therefore not all information in it can be documented or supported. The data you get will come from the GM file. Not the aniline database. ;)
Roy, I apologise unreservedly if I misunderstood the wording of the email confirmation note, and caused any offence in the process. I had understood it to mean that NCRS got the dealer code from the GM records, but that the decoding of that code into a dealer name and address came from the database that was compiled from owner-provided details. Having re-read the wording, I understand the intent, that the database is not maintained by NCRS but that we can assist in it's accuracy by providing the info that our report, based on contemporary GM data, provides.
Thank you for clarifying, and once again, sorry for my confusion. This is a great service that is very much appreciated.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on May 02, 2014, 01:37:00 PM
Let me put this fire out before it gets started.  Sometimes words get lost in translation.  The dealer database which is linked to the wording in the order process is not what we use. That data base as it explains is hobbyist created, it does provide some invaluable information and we suggest that you input your data when you receive it, but it is not maintained by NCRS it is hobbyist created, therefore not all information in it can be documented or supported. The data you get will come from the GM file. Not the aniline database. ;)
Roy, I apologise unreservedly if I misunderstood the wording of the email confirmation note, and caused any offence in the process. I had understood it to mean that NCRS got the dealer code from the GM records, but that the decoding of that code into a dealer name and address came from the database that was compiled from owner-provided details. Having re-read the wording, I understand the intent, that the database is not maintained by NCRS but that we can assist in it's accuracy by providing the info that our report, based on contemporary GM data, provides.
Thank you for clarifying, and once again, sorry for my confusion. This is a great service that is very much appreciated.

No apologies necessary or required. I just want everyone to understand, the online database referred to in the email which is located on the NCRS web site, has nothing to do with this service. That database is hobbyist generated and the input is not verified prior to entry, you can take the data we give you and update the database if you wish. The Shipping Data Service provided by NCRS uses only GM records from GM and if holes exist in the GM records we do not use the database to fill the holes, simply because the holes are unconfirmed by GM and if or when we are able to confirm a missing dealer through our ongoing research one it will no longer be a hole in the GM records...
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on May 02, 2014, 01:46:11 PM
guys be patient the roll out will be a big task on our end, but hopefully we will have no major glitches.

Roy, would it help if we waited a month or so to order?

Paul

At this pint waiting wont get it any quicker there are many in queue we will process them as expediently as possible.  For the start up we are dedicating more time to the process than we will in several months, so the turnaround will be about the same.
Title: Re: So you think you have a Dana, Nickey,Berger Baldwin, etc...?
Post by: rsinor on May 02, 2014, 01:54:40 PM
Hello everyone, is this the same database as NICB?

I can only tell that there have been some conflicts between the two results. In other words what we have has produced different results on several occasions than what someone already had from the NICB.

Two things in this respect I'm told on good authority the NICB files are no longer researchable with out case numbers. Our research indicates the GM records contain more data than what we have seen from the NICB files..
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Nikke on May 04, 2014, 12:23:03 PM
From NCRS

We are missing the following data:
1969 Camaro 9N508855 to 9N587275
1970 Chevelle made in Atlanta, Seventh digit would be A.

NCRS does not anticipate nor have we been authorized to offer any additional GM brand information.


So from Sept 68 to end of Jan 69 NOR is missing.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 6667ss138 on May 04, 2014, 12:31:02 PM
Yeah, I just noticed that and was going to post it as well.
It doesn't affect me but I feel bad for those that it will affect.
That will pretty much exclude all of the pre X coded cars  :(

https://www.chevymuscledocs.com/index.php
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: TooManyReels on May 04, 2014, 01:57:11 PM
Thanks Ed. I just filled out the form. It was very straight forward and  easy to process my request. !!!

TMR
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: z28z11 on May 04, 2014, 02:18:38 PM
Hello everyone, is this the same database as NICB?

I can only tell that there have been some conflicts between the two results. In other words what we have has produced different results on several occasions than what someone already had from the NICB.

Two things in this respect I'm told on good authority the NICB files are no longer researchable with out case numbers. Our research indicates the GM records contain more data than what we have seen from the NICB files..

From NCRS

"We are missing the following data:
1969 Camaro 9N508855 to 9N587275
1970 Chevelle made in Atlanta, Seventh digit would be A.
NCRS does not anticipate nor have we been authorized to offer any additional GM brand information.
So from Sept 68 to end of Jan 69 NOR is missing. "

This is going to throw my request out - my Camaro falls in this range. What now ? Do I get refunded, or do I switch my VIN request to the next one I need ?
 
 
 
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: VINCE Z28 on May 04, 2014, 03:00:22 PM
Wow 78,420  "69" camaro's not listed!!! :'(
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on May 04, 2014, 03:30:52 PM
Well just because it is missing doesn't mean it will be missing forever. Maybe in the future this data will turn up.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: cook_dw on May 04, 2014, 03:33:57 PM
Hello everyone, is this the same database as NICB?

I can only tell that there have been some conflicts between the two results. In other words what we have has produced different results on several occasions than what someone already had from the NICB.

Two things in this respect I'm told on good authority the NICB files are no longer researchable with out case numbers. Our research indicates the GM records contain more data than what we have seen from the NICB files..

From NCRS

"We are missing the following data:
1969 Camaro 9N508855 to 9N587275
1970 Chevelle made in Atlanta, Seventh digit would be A.
NCRS does not anticipate nor have we been authorized to offer any additional GM brand information.
So from Sept 68 to end of Jan 69 NOR is missing. "

This is going to throw my request out - my Camaro falls in this range. What now ? Do I get refunded, or do I switch my VIN request to the next one I need ?
 
 
 


He mentioned previously that if no data was found on a vin that the money would be refunded.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: z28z11 on May 04, 2014, 06:45:31 PM
Roughly 78,000 in the same boat ? At least that's 3545 pages they won't have to look through.

Speaking of coincidence - amazing it's missing the non-X code dates for Camaros. I've got the dealer info and MSO for two of my four, the Pace Car is coded, but my original-block documented L78 is the one I was interested in finding out more about, since it's an early, non-X coded car. Shame -

Regards -
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Conquest396 on May 04, 2014, 10:08:14 PM
Very disappointed, I fall in this range. I hope they come up with some. Maybe I will get lucky.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: cook_dw on May 05, 2014, 02:02:52 AM
Will we receive an email notification of when our data is shipped out?  Would like to know when to expect the letter or package is in the mail.   ;D  Thanks, Darrell
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 05, 2014, 02:37:46 AM
Hello everyone, is this the same database as NICB?

I can only tell that there have been some conflicts between the two results. In other words what we have has produced different results on several occasions than what someone already had from the NICB.

Two things in this respect I'm told on good authority the NICB files are no longer researchable with out case numbers. Our research indicates the GM records contain more data than what we have seen from the NICB files..

From NCRS

"We are missing the following data:
1969 Camaro 9N508855 to 9N587275
1970 Chevelle made in Atlanta, Seventh digit would be A.
NCRS does not anticipate nor have we been authorized to offer any additional GM brand information.
So from Sept 68 to end of Jan 69 NOR is missing. "

This is going to throw my request out - my Camaro falls in this range. What now ? Do I get refunded, or do I switch my VIN request to the next one I need ?
 
 Yes, when the order is processed you will receive a refund. Because the data is missing does not mean it will not be found! You can assume that if we find it we will take the note regarding it being missing down, we are in the prices of having the firm that digitizes the data for us look for the missing information. Hopefully it was jugs a clerical error in conversion.
 

Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 05, 2014, 02:40:07 AM
Will we receive an email notification of when our data is shipped out?  Would like to know when to expect the letter or package is in the mail.   ;D  Thanks, Darrell

yes you wil receive an email confirming your docuemtn has been mailed, if a refund is issued you will receive an email conifmring that also.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: z28z11 on May 05, 2014, 03:58:51 AM
Will we receive an email notification of when our data is shipped out?  Would like to know when to expect the letter or package is in the mail.   ;D  Thanks, Darrell

yes you wil receive an email confirming your docuemtn has been mailed, if a refund is issued you will receive an email conifmring that also.

I hope mine makes it - if not, the second one I need is a March car - hopefully it's there. I'll wait the first one out and pray that it shows up -

Thanks for the update -
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rich69rs on May 05, 2014, 10:37:56 PM
From NCRS

We are missing the following data:
1969 Camaro 9N508855 to 9N587275
1970 Chevelle made in Atlanta, Seventh digit would be A.

NCRS does not anticipate nor have we been authorized to offer any additional GM brand information.


So from Sept 68 to end of Jan 69 NOR is missing.

Ok, I gotta ask because I've been sitting here like many anticipating the launch.  When was it discovered that 78K cars were missing from the data?  Hard to envision missing that minor detail.  Would have been nice to have known about it on the forum sooner.  Really deflating at this point to say the least since my 69 RS xxxxx9N581767 is in the middle of that list of missing VIN's.

Richard
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 05, 2014, 10:44:33 PM
Richard - since the data base is just a little over 7 million,  it is not quite as obvious as you might think. When we realized the hole existed and it was the size it is we posted it on line, don't know what else to tell you. this database is sorted by last six of the vin, so there are multiple units for each number the missing data is not obvious or we would have picked up on it sooner.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: HOT3O2 on May 05, 2014, 10:49:00 PM
Just got an e-mail saying that my shipping data report for my car has been mailed to me. Should have it in a day or two. Boy that was quick.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: NoYenko on May 05, 2014, 10:52:36 PM
Well I got a reply today from Roy stating one requested document was in the mail, and the other request will be refunded for missing documents.
That was pretty fast, hopfully the missing files will show up some day. Great work Chevymusclecardocs. I will post a copy it when it arrives. George
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: ko-lek-tor on May 05, 2014, 11:45:01 PM
Got my refund notice  >:(...story of my life.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: paceme on May 06, 2014, 12:08:44 AM
Got my confirmation that two of mine are in the mail. Thanks Roy and all those involved to make this happen.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Conquest396 on May 06, 2014, 02:05:47 AM
The missing are about 3500 microfiche cards if there are about 22 cars on each one. Some boxes in a corner or closet somewhere were missed? Keep hope alive!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: ZLP955 on May 06, 2014, 09:11:27 AM
Also got confirmation report is on it's way, very quick service; thanks Roy!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Kelley W King on May 06, 2014, 12:33:30 PM
My L78 is in the missing section but my Z is not so I have sent that one in. If any of the missing ones are found will we be notified?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 06, 2014, 12:53:46 PM
The missing are about 3500 microfiche cards if there are about 22 cars on each one. Some boxes in a corner or closet somewhere were missed? Keep hope alive!

Not really, the microfiche does not just contain Camaro each sheet contains other models also, what is missing appears to be the original clerical input for the Norwood plant on 69 production. It is not missing microfiche pages, the data just is not on the microfiche.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: janobyte on May 06, 2014, 01:20:45 PM
just received confirmation.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Conquest396 on May 06, 2014, 01:43:13 PM
The missing are about 3500 microfiche cards if there are about 22 cars on each one. Some boxes in a corner or closet somewhere were missed? Keep hope alive!

Not really, the microfiche does not just contain Camaro each sheet contains other models also, what is missing appears to be the original clerical input for the Norwood plant on 69 production. It is not missing microfiche pages, the data just is not on the microfiche.

Thats right I forgot its all models, sorry..... Wow so it was never put on microfiche... GM doesnt want us knowing something lol or I guess the gal who was doing the archiving was on maternity leave during those months lol.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 06, 2014, 02:05:39 PM
Well, I paid by Paypal early the first day (#136) and I haven't heard anything as yet..   not sure what I'm hoping for here.. :)    I guess if they are doing them alphabetically (my last name begins with W)  :), that's better than hearing they don't have my VIN on their records..
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 06, 2014, 02:15:30 PM
Well, I paid by Paypal early the first day (#136) and I haven't heard anything as yet..   not sure what I'm hoping for here.. :)    I guess if they are doing them alphabetically (my last name begins with W)  :), that's better than hearing they don't have my VIN on their records..

we are doing them numerically so the batch with your order is in process, there are only two of us, we have processed the first 100 or so at this point.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 06, 2014, 02:20:44 PM
I'm not complaining Roy.. :)      you can tell we're all anxious to hear something.. :)   
( I guess I should go work on my Nomad and quit worrying about this.. and let you do your work...    :)  )   
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: HOT3O2 on May 06, 2014, 02:36:10 PM
Roy, Just out of curiosity how many request have you received so far?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 06, 2014, 03:12:10 PM
Roy, Just out of curiosity how many request have you received so far?

the current system has 540 orders received. Before those of you reading this panic, please realize there are a lot of aborted orders, the system is pretty easy to use but a lot of orders get aborted we do not reuse a number so an aborted order throws out that number, #539 in queue in the system has #703 issued for it that means 160 plus orders were aborted..
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Daytona Yellow 69 Z/28 on May 06, 2014, 10:58:55 PM
Paid on the 4'th & my 68's # 622. I figured I would wait and see how this order turns out before doing the other 2 cars
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: DT on May 06, 2014, 11:24:11 PM
Paid May 3rd.  #537 here.  I'm curious as to where this info will lead too ?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: janobyte on May 06, 2014, 11:47:40 PM
#693,this A.M.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: sixt9x33rs on May 07, 2014, 12:06:58 AM
I was order number 55 and got an email yesterday stating that docs were mailed yesterday. So should get them tomorrow. This is for my Gold car, the Silver Convertible got aborted because of the early build date....bummer...Did not order the docs for the Silver Z..That car came with a ton of docs.

Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Kelley W King on May 07, 2014, 03:36:00 PM
Did mine yesterday # 686
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: MyRed67 on May 08, 2014, 08:56:40 PM
Did mine EARLY (wife gets home from work at 1: am) this morn., #801.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: HOT3O2 on May 08, 2014, 09:12:46 PM
Got it in the mail today.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on May 08, 2014, 10:06:03 PM
Can you post a pic of what you got ? Did you already know the original dealer?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: HOT3O2 on May 08, 2014, 10:48:25 PM
I had no Idea what dealer it came from. Turns out I drive by the dealer (Hatch Chevrolet in El Cajon, Ca.) (at least where it use to be. It's changed hands a few time) going to work every day. I'll try to scan it and post it. If you look at post #40 you will see a copy of what the letter looks like. Same info.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 77thor on May 08, 2014, 11:09:47 PM
I am # 319... Hoping to hear something soon.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: KevinW on May 09, 2014, 12:23:27 AM
I just received my letter, I do not know whether to laugh or cry.

6/23/69, Dealer code 1, Zone 79 (Hawaii), Dealer Name: GM overseas Distribution

Now what the heck am I supposed to do with that!

I bought the car in north NJ in 82 and it had a Seton Hall University sticker on the window. This car really traveled! LA to Hawaii to NJ!!!

Anyone here have information on the GM shipping to Hawaii info??
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: NoYenko on May 09, 2014, 01:38:20 AM
I got one of my shipping data reports today for a 1969 Yenko I used to own. Since I no longer own it I blocked out part of the Vin. I was really hoping to get info on my current 69 but it is one of the lost Vin's. Maybe someday they will find the records. Just thought you guys would like to see it. George.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on May 09, 2014, 01:42:25 AM
Very Cool. thanks for posting it.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 68camaroz28 on May 09, 2014, 01:59:47 AM
I just received my letter, I do not know whether to laugh or cry.

6/23/69, Dealer code 1, Zone 79 (Hawaii), Dealer Name: GM overseas Distribution

Now what the heck am I supposed to do with that!

I bought the car in north NJ in 82 and it had a Seton Hall University sticker on the window. This car really traveled! LA to Hawaii to NJ!!!

Anyone here have information on the GM shipping to Hawaii info??
Maybe Hawaii has records and one has to wonder if the original owner was in the service since the car traveled so much (???).
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 09, 2014, 02:18:20 AM
I just received my letter, I do not know whether to laugh or cry.

6/23/69, Dealer code 1, Zone 79 (Hawaii), Dealer Name: GM overseas Distribution

Now what the heck am I supposed to do with that!

I bought the car in north NJ in 82 and it had a Seton Hall University sticker on the window. This car really traveled! LA to Hawaii to NJ!!!

Anyone here have information on the GM shipping to Hawaii info??
Maybe Hawaii has records and one has to wonder if the original owner was in the service since the car traveled so much (???).

If a car was ordered by someone while on active duty the order system would have processed it through the overseas distribution.  My guess based on seeing a few of these would e your car was ordered by someone in the navy possibly stationed in Hawaii and delivered to a dealer in his home state for his return. that's all speculation but its based on what we know happened. More times than not an Overseas Distribution meant exactly that sometimes it was shipped overseas sometimes it was not.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: camaroman1969 on May 09, 2014, 02:19:49 AM
Received confirmation May 1 on dealer info on my 1969 Camaro.  Number 142.  Received e-mail today May 8 that document is in the mail....Yes!!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 09, 2014, 03:20:16 AM
and I did as well..  :)     #136.. Maybe in a few days we'll have the $50 letter.. :)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: KevinW on May 09, 2014, 11:09:17 AM
I just received my letter, I do not know whether to laugh or cry.

6/23/69, Dealer code 1, Zone 79 (Hawaii), Dealer Name: GM overseas Distribution

Now what the heck am I supposed to do with that!

I bought the car in north NJ in 82 and it had a Seton Hall University sticker on the window. This car really traveled! LA to Hawaii to NJ!!!

Anyone here have information on the GM shipping to Hawaii info??
Maybe Hawaii has records and one has to wonder if the original owner was in the service since the car traveled so much (???).

If a car was ordered by someone while on active duty the order system would have processed it through the overseas distribution.  My guess based on seeing a few of these would e your car was ordered by someone in the navy possibly stationed in Hawaii and delivered to a dealer in his home state for his return. that's all speculation but its based on what we know happened. More times than not an Overseas Distribution meant exactly that sometimes it was shipped overseas sometimes it was not.

Do you think there are additional records someplace in the navy or GM Hawaii that I can investigate?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 09, 2014, 01:20:45 PM
I just received my letter, I do not know whether to laugh or cry.

6/23/69, Dealer code 1, Zone 79 (Hawaii), Dealer Name: GM overseas Distribution

Now what the heck am I supposed to do with that!

I bought the car in north NJ in 82 and it had a Seton Hall University sticker on the window. This car really traveled! LA to Hawaii to NJ!!!

Anyone here have information on the GM shipping to Hawaii info??
Maybe Hawaii has records and one has to wonder if the original owner was in the service since the car traveled so much (???).

If a car was ordered by someone while on active duty the order system would have processed it through the overseas distribution.  My guess based on seeing a few of these would e your car was ordered by someone in the navy possibly stationed in Hawaii and delivered to a dealer in his home state for his return. that's all speculation but its based on what we know happened. More times than not an Overseas Distribution meant exactly that sometimes it was shipped overseas sometimes it was not.

Do you think there are additional records someplace in the navy or GM Hawaii that I can investigate?

Don't have a clue where you should start, personally I have had good success with Bill Gould his service is AutoAncestry.com 
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: camaroman1969 on May 09, 2014, 02:18:59 PM
and I did as well..  :)     #136.. Maybe in a few days we'll have the $50 letter.. :)
I wish these documents or letter, contained more than dealer info.  Build sheet info or window sticker info would have been "super".
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on May 09, 2014, 02:26:53 PM
I don't think it is for a lack of trying,  :)
 I just don't think it has been discovered, or that kind of pertinent info got tossed at one point.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: VINCE Z28 on May 09, 2014, 03:22:57 PM
Hey guys instead of waiting for old dealer items to pop up why not post wanted ads on CL right before a swap meet,or a web site for a year or so... you never know a former dealers kids or grand kids may be setting on the stuff you guys want.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: janobyte on May 09, 2014, 04:41:07 PM
#1 owner of mine ordered while in Vietnam ,picked it up stateside at a Michigan dealer. ( not imagined conversation...) In owner's manual ,stamped under the POP is referance to overseas distribution. Curious to see how the Cert. comes out.

Car's coming back from paint next week. Going to give #1 a call and get him out to the house for some pics and a little more history.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: -vellu on May 09, 2014, 05:14:44 PM
I have order no. 511

The car is now in Finland (Europe). I know the history in Finland and I am the third owner here. I also know one owner in the U.S. California (date issued 04/26/84).
When I have more information of my "world tour" car, it can be a fun to show it in Google Maps  ;)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67014625/Camaro%201969%20by%20Vellu.jpg)










Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: ko-lek-tor on May 09, 2014, 05:26:46 PM
Oooohhh, Aaahhh, Nice, nice, nice!! ...did I say that your car is nice? Real NICE!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on May 09, 2014, 06:19:38 PM
Hey guys instead of waiting for old dealer items to pop up why not post wanted ads on CL right before a swap meet,or a web site for a year or so... you never know a former dealers kids or grand kids may be setting on the stuff you guys want.

lol, only problem is all the spammers and trolls. I have tried it, all I got were responses like " I have what you want, contact me and lets get together"

Let me tell you something ...they do not have what you want.

gives a whole new meaning to: "try it you may get lucky"  :D
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 11, 2014, 02:20:20 AM
I hope the first of you guys to get the report back, will please post pics of what is provided, so the rest of us will see it nice and clear.
Thanks in advance!

Bullitt,

Based on what Roy Sinor has told us we will receive, and based on my own car's VIN and dealer tag and label (on the car when I purchased it in 1976), I can predict what my letter will say... :)

---------------------------------
    "Subject to the General Conditions listed on the reverse side, National Corvette Restorerís Society, Inc, confirms the following information exists in the GM shipping data records for the 1969 Camaro with vehicle identification number  124379N686XXX.
                    .
    The GM official Production Date was 9/17/1969

    The original delivery dealer was Dealer code 73   in zone 8 .

    The name and Address for the dealer was:
       Joe V Clayton Chevrolet, Inc
       Arab, AL  35016
"

---------------------------------------------------------------

My only point with this is that most of us know or suspect the information on our cars already, and we can calculate the production date based on the VIN, but what the service does for us is PROVIDE GM CONFIRMATION of that information!  and that is well worth the $50 IMO...   :)

When I get my letter, I'll update this and see how good my prediction was.... :)

WELL, my report came in today (#136 submitted).   

I'm not a happy camper;  I'm less knowledgable now than I thought I was before.. I missed the production date by a day (I predicted 17Sept, but it actually was the 18th.. (Not a big surprise to me, as I always knew it was one of those days.. borderline situation)...  But the real surprise I received was..   Zone 21  Dealer 73 ...   UNKNOWN....   :(

So apparently having the Joe V Clayton plaques and tag bracket did NOT indicate the original dealer it was shipped to?  Clayton Chevrolet is Dealer 73 in Zone 8 (per the database info).

Was this car a dealer Transfer?  OR is the zone information WRONG in the records, since the dealer number of 73 is the dealer number for Clayton Chevrolet.   What does  ZONE mean?   Did it ever change for a particular dealer?  Any information or guesses appreciated.. :)
 
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: paceme on May 11, 2014, 03:22:00 AM
I hope the first of you guys to get the report back, will please post pics of what is provided, so the rest of us will see it nice and clear.
Thanks in advance!

Bullitt,

Based on what Roy Sinor has told us we will receive, and based on my own car's VIN and dealer tag and label (on the car when I purchased it in 1976), I can predict what my letter will say... :)

---------------------------------
    "Subject to the General Conditions listed on the reverse side, National Corvette Restorerís Society, Inc, confirms the following information exists in the GM shipping data records for the 1969 Camaro with vehicle identification number  124379N686XXX.
                    .
    The GM official Production Date was 9/17/1969

    The original delivery dealer was Dealer code 73   in zone 8 .

    The name and Address for the dealer was:
       Joe V Clayton Chevrolet, Inc
       Arab, AL  35016
"

---------------------------------------------------------------

My only point with this is that most of us know or suspect the information on our cars already, and we can calculate the production date based on the VIN, but what the service does for us is PROVIDE GM CONFIRMATION of that information!  and that is well worth the $50 IMO...   :)

When I get my letter, I'll update this and see how good my prediction was.... :)

WELL, my report came in today (#136 submitted).  

I'm not a happy camper;  I'm less knowledgable now than I thought I was before.. I missed the production date by a day (I predicted 17Sept, but it actually was the 18th.. (Not a big surprise to me, as I always knew it was one of those days.. borderline situation)...  But the real surprise I received was..   Zone 21  Dealer 73 ...   UNKNOWN....   :(

So apparently having the Joe V Clayton plaques and tag bracket did NOT indicate the original dealer it was shipped to?  Clayton Chevrolet is Dealer 73 in Zone 8 (per the database info).

Was this car a dealer Transfer?  OR is the zone information WRONG in the records, since the dealer number of 73 is the dealer number for Clayton Chevrolet.   What does  ZONE mean?   Did it ever change for a particular dealer?  Any information or guesses appreciated.. :)
  


Yes, in fact in 1969 zone 11 dealer 372 was Max Myers Motors in Middlebury, IN and it appears to change to McManus Chevrolet in Chicago , Il in 1970.This is the info on my 69 Indy Pace Car.


Below is the explanation of why they change. I believe the zone is basically a territory, and territories changed as well.

From NCRS database page:

General Motors assigned zone and dealer numbers to active dealers at the time of assignment.  As dealerships changed ownership and went out of business the dealer number may be re-assigned to other new dealerships.  For this reason dates are included with this information where known.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 11, 2014, 03:28:09 AM
Thanks Steve..  for a little more enlightenment.   Joe V Clayton Chevrolet originated in 1968 per some info I have, so that could have been with the '69 model year...  being a first year dealership, perhaps that has something to do with this.   I plan to check with my friend who works there and have him ask around to if they know if/when the zone might have changed...
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on May 11, 2014, 03:30:39 AM
ok that sounds logical. So is there a good list that accounts for the changes and dates for guys like Gary (really there is no one like Gary)..   ;)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Frosty69 on May 13, 2014, 01:24:52 AM
A huge Thank You to Roy and the NCRS for this service and for everyone who has posted information. A special thanks Roy for the time you have spent on this forum providing us with more information and clarification.

I am sure there are going to be a ton of questions about the information provided in these reports, especially matching up the dealer code/zone to the name and locations given. When there is a discrepancy or something odd what is the best way to get clarification from the NCRS? I was 99% sure what the report would list as the dealer name and location. Turns out the code and zone match what I thought and what others seem to have but the dealer name and location on my report does not.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: z28z11 on May 13, 2014, 01:31:38 AM
Anyone with an MSO on their car receive their confirmation yet ? I'm interested to see the space between the two, if there is one(always heard the MSO was cut on the same day the car was finished).

Regards -
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: x66 714 on May 13, 2014, 03:21:23 AM
I have MSOs on both of my Camaros. I can let you know the results when I rece1ve mine. I ordered them on Friday or Saturday at the same time...Joe
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Kelley W King on May 13, 2014, 07:11:26 PM
At least they are coming in. I think we we all learn something new.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: jdv69z on May 13, 2014, 07:20:45 PM
After reading Gary's post I'm curious to see what mine says, since I know the original dealer (or at least I think I do) by the original new car warranty sticker which is still on the back of my rear view mirror. We'll see if the report matches up.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Stingr69 on May 13, 2014, 08:53:50 PM
My number is one of the ":missing" ones. :~(
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 13, 2014, 11:55:52 PM
Stingr69 posted:
"Insert Quote
My number is one of the ":missing" ones. :~("

Maybe if we put all out information together, we can figure out some of these..

1) Did you have some *idea* of where the car may have been sold originally?
2) What Zone # and Dealer # was reported to you (and based on what date?)..

My car was shipped on 18Sep1969, Zone#21 Dealer#73 reported.   I *thought* my car was sold originally at Joe Clayton Chevrolet, in Arab AL, and the current Dealer number is the same #73, but the current Zone # is 8.   I talked to my friend who works there today; he told me the last 'old employee' from that period has alzheimers, but he told me the original Zone number (from 1968 time frame) was #31 (he thought).  I'm hoping he didn't recollect this exactly and that it was 21 instead.. :)

Gary
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 14, 2014, 01:09:49 AM
Stingr69 posted:
"Insert Quote
My number is one of the ":missing" ones. :~("

Maybe if we put all out information together, we can figure out some of these..

1) Did you have some *idea* of where the car may have been sold originally?
2) What Zone # and Dealer # was reported to you (and based on what date?)..

My car was shipped on 18Sep1969, Zone#21 Dealer#73 reported.   I *thought* my car was sold originally at Joe Clayton Chevrolet, in Arab AL, and the current Dealer number is the same #73, but the current Zone # is 8.   I talked to my friend who works there today; he told me the last 'old employee' from that period has alzheimers, but he told me the original Zone number (from 1968 time frame) was #31 (he thought).  I'm hoping he didn't recollect this exactly and that it was 21 instead.. :)

Gary


Gary, I've been working on it from my end. the zone is #31 the dealer is #73, we still do not know the name of the dealer we think it could start with a c. The microfiche is damaged and very hard to read what we originally thought was 21 we know are sure is 31.  The dealer directory does not have the dealer name for #73.  Can yo get anything prodcued from GM that shows 31-073 is Joe Clayton Chevrolet? If you could we can take it to GM and have them update their directory.  I'm also struggling with zone 31 I think it is WV, TN area.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 14, 2014, 04:05:24 AM
Roy,

The employee at Joe Clayton Chevrolet whom I talked to today (a long time friend) is the parts manager there.   When I explained the difference between what NCRS data had for Joe V Clayton (Zone 8/ Dealer 73)..  He said yes that is correct.    When I told him what GM records had for my car on date 18Sept69, he said he thought the old zone number was '31'...  (I was hoping he'd confused 31 and 21), but maybe it really was 31.    He mentioned 'the previous dealer' as Royal Chevrolet (I think).  I will get back with him and probably drive down there and see what they might have in terms of written documentation for the old Zone number... and will report back.

Note:  Joe Clayton Chevrolet originated in cy 1968 (could have been with the '69 model year.   Before that, the area was possibly covered by Royal Chevrolet (based in Huntsville, AL).  Back then, Clayton Chevrolet had the reputation all across north Alabama and southern Tennessee as being the area's 'high performance' headquarters where lots of people bought their muscle cars...

Gary
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on May 14, 2014, 04:08:35 AM
maybe it would jog his memory and may mean more if you "drove" your Z down there????

(How is it coming with the actual Z car ?)

(Or the nomad??)

Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 14, 2014, 04:12:32 AM
maybe it would jog his memory and may mean more if you "drove" your Z down there????

(How is it coming with the actual Z car ?)
(Or the nomad??)

Yes, it would be good for other reasons if I could *drive* my Z28 down there.. :), but unfortunately the front clip is still apart.  The

There are no current employees there who worked there in '69.   The closest possibility would be the current owner of the dealership (son of Joe Clayton) who now operated the dealership, but who was probably a tyke at the time.. :)
Are you suggesting that even as a small tyke, he would probably recall everything about such a beautiful HO Camaro?? :)

Nomad body is back on the rolling chassis, all bolted down good and snugly (that was last week's task).  Body work is going slow except for what I do, as the fella I hired to help me is occupied elsewhere right now (except for a few hours a week)..


Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on May 14, 2014, 04:18:03 AM
I was suggesting driving a big orange look at me car down there might garner a bit more attention, and if they knew it might have sold from their dealership might be a neat story, that the son may reach out to a few guys to try to figure it out. If he was smart could try to drum up some publicity out of it as well, so a win win situation. At least that is how I might sell it....
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 14, 2014, 04:21:41 AM
i don't disagree with that approach, Bullitt....  :)   but see point 1..  no front clip on car..  :)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on May 14, 2014, 04:24:36 AM
I gotcha, well maybe when ya get the nomad done. Just trying to think of ways to get them working for you.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: cook_dw on May 14, 2014, 11:39:46 AM
Or you could just give me the Nomad that way you could jump right on the Camaro.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: ZLP955 on May 14, 2014, 01:16:29 PM
Letter arrived in mail today - car was originally delivered to Clippinger Chevrolet in Covina, CA. Very cool to finally get confirmation, thanks Roy and NCRS!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on May 14, 2014, 01:36:27 PM
Or you could just give me the Nomad that way you could jump right on the Camaro.

Thats kinda how I acquired my 55 Bel Air! (my friend had too many projects at that time).
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: vonroll on May 14, 2014, 01:44:39 PM
Close, but no cigar...  I fall 962 outside the top range at 588237, Late January, and got the bad news this morning about a refund.  So add another Camaro to the upper end of this.  "  1969 Camaro 9N508855 to 9N587275  "   Man I'm bummed.  Just when you think you're safe. :)  
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Kelley W King on May 14, 2014, 02:50:35 PM
I have a couple shipping documents from Scuncio Cheverolet in Greenville RI. They show a dealer code of 32613 Zone 32. Is the dealer code the same as the dealer number? Have not got my paperwork yet but hoping this is what it says.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: jdv69z on May 14, 2014, 03:03:39 PM
After reading Gary's post I'm curious to see what mine says, since I know the original dealer (or at least I think I do) by the original new car warranty sticker which is still on the back of my rear view mirror. We'll see if the report matches up.

Oops! Looks like I'm outta  luck. One of the missing ones 516355
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 14, 2014, 03:43:34 PM
Roy,

The employee at Joe Clayton Chevrolet whom I talked to today (a long time friend) is the parts manager there.   When I explained the difference between what NCRS data had for Joe V Clayton (Zone 8/ Dealer 73)..  He said yes that is correct.    When I told him what GM records had for my car on date 18Sept69, he said he thought the old zone number was '31'...  (I was hoping he'd confused 31 and 21), but maybe it really was 31.    He mentioned 'the previous dealer' as Royal Chevrolet (I think).  I will get back with him and probably drive down there and see what they might have in terms of written documentation for the old Zone number... and will report back.

Note:  Joe Clayton Chevrolet originated in cy 1968 (could have been with the '69 model year.   Before that, the area was possibly covered by Royal Chevrolet (based in Huntsville, AL).  Back then, Clayton Chevrolet had the reputation all across north Alabama and southern Tennessee as being the area's 'high performance' headquarters where lots of people bought their muscle cars...

Gary

Gary, I'm going to hold off on your new report until we see if something shows up for 31-073 that shows Joe V Clayton on it, without that I'm left with "Based on limited information for the time frame Dealer name believed to begin with a  C and is located in AL, FL or TN".  You are so close to finding something we can give GM I would like to set on it a few days and see what happens.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 14, 2014, 04:32:49 PM
Roy,

Please 'sit on it' as long as you can as long as there's a possibility of getting more firm information.  The update you could provide today would not greatly increase what I already have (except for correcting the Zone# from 21 to 31).

I'm trying to get in touch with my friend there, who had told me yesterday that the original zone number was 31, in order to find out if he has documentation (of any kind?), or how he knew that zone number (since it changed to zone 8 a long while ago)..  He was out when I called so I left a message.  

The current owner of the dealership (Bryan Clayton) is the son of the original owner (Joe V Clayton), but the son is only 53 now, ( a youngster) who was only around 8 yrs old in 1969... but I will inquire with him as well... :)

Gary
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 14, 2014, 07:04:19 PM
I have a couple shipping documents from Scuncio Cheverolet in Greenville RI. They show a dealer code of 32613 Zone 32. Is the dealer code the same as the dealer number? Have not got my paperwork yet but hoping this is what it says.

32-613 is Scuncio Chevrolet, Wakefield - Peacedale, RI according to the GM record
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 14, 2014, 08:52:41 PM
Roy,

Please 'sit on it' as long as you can as long as there's a possibility of getting more firm information.  The update you could provide today would not greatly increase what I already have (except for correcting the Zone# from 21 to 31).

I'm trying to get in touch with my friend there, who had told me yesterday that the original zone number was 31, in order to find out if he has documentation (of any kind?), or how he knew that zone number (since it changed to zone 8 a long while ago)..  He was out when I called so I left a message.  

The current owner of the dealership (Bryan Clayton) is the son of the original owner (Joe V Clayton), but the son is only 53 now, ( a youngster) who was only around 8 yrs old in 1969... but I will inquire with him as well... :)

Gary

I got a call back from my friend, parts mgr at Clayton Chevrolet, and we were able to speak for quite a while.   He's been a parts man for 4-5 Chevrolet dealerships over almost 40 years in Huntsville,Albertville, and Arab Alabama, and he explained what he could about 'Zone Numbers'.  
1) The Zone number references the primary warehouse that supplies the dealership with parts (among possibly other things).  ie.   typically the entire number code is:    '5' (for Chevrolet), 'Zone number' (for the warehouse supplier), 'dealer number'.   so 5-08-73 as an example (currently for Clayton Chevrolet).
2)  GM/Chevrolet shifts their warehouse locations around at times; fairly recently the warehouse for Clayton shifted from Atlanta (zone 8) to someplace in Mississippi (Zone ?).  Ft Worth is now zone 41; Memphis is zone 92, etc.
3)  Apparently the zone number/dealer number which is set up for a new dealership (or owner?) remains the same, even if the warehouse (and it's zone number shifts locations).  
4)  Apparently the only time GM reassigns the Zone#/Dealer# for a dealer is when it is new or when the dealership changes hands.

All this makes it VERY CONFUSING when we're trying to reconstruct the old zone/dealer numbers after 45 yrs, and many many GM warehouse moves, and dealership changes.   Just the dealership here in Huntsville has had six different names through the years ... Hill 1967 (5-31-255), Royal 1969-72 (5-31-340), Larry Savage 1982 (5-31-436, Landmark 1987-88 (5-08-304), Bill Heard (5-08-302/304), and Landers-McLarty 2009 (5-1-145)...
Given all that,  my friend (Clay Smith) knew that the Royal Chevrolet dealership in Huntsville, AL was ZONE 31 in the late '60's and '70's.  That dealership changed hands from Hill Chevrolet (5-31-255) to Royal Chevrolet in 1967 (5-31-340).   Clayton Chevrolet 1987-2002 (5-08-73) took over for Richard Kelley Chevrolet 1967 (5-31-???).  Richard Kelley was an uncle to Clayton, so I have no idea exactly how/when the ownership actually changed.

Note that NCRS database shows Richard Kelley Chevrolet as being zone 31 (which was the Birmingham, AL warehouse at that time), but Clayton Chevrolet has since 1987 been 5-08-73).

I found a posting on Chevelles.com, posted by an old friend of mine from York, PA .. Stan Falenski (a diehard Chevy musclecar guy who has owned some fantastic Chevy muscle cars)...  he posted a long list of 'Zone numbers'...
Post #12 from:
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43413
 
which included the following zone numbers, confirming what Clay just told me...
08 - Atlanta (GA)
31 - Birmingham (AL)

Stan also posted a lot of dealer/zone numbers with dealer names/locations at that same link (a later post).. so you guys should check that one.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Based on the Birmingham warehouse being #31 in the late sixties, and on the other information I have, I am coming to the conclusion that in the '69 timeframe, Clayton Chevrolet WAS assigned Zone 31 (Birmingham) and Dealer 73, and only sometime between then and 1987 did their zone change to 08 (Atlanta).  I believe that the warehouses serving the north Alabama region (including Huntsville and Arab) changed from Birmingham (31) to Atlanta (08) sometime between 1982 and 1987 based on the evidence that exists...

What do you think Roy??  :)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 14, 2014, 09:27:24 PM

What do you think Roy??  :)


I think that zone 31 dealer 073 is the dealer that was invoiced by Chevrolet for Gary's car. I do think Stan is a great guy, I was fortunate enough to be able to use him as a national team leader while I was the national judging chairman for NCRS.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: xandf on May 14, 2014, 10:42:39 PM
Roy,
Just got my refund for 9N707541. I've been glued to this thread since it started. I appreciate all the efforts by yourself
and others to accomplish this task. My question is, did I just get lucky to be one of the missing (random) or does it seem that other October 1969 build cars will also be missing? I guess my real question is whether mine might still have some hope to be found? Thanks again.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 15, 2014, 03:50:00 AM
Roy,
Just got my refund for 9N707541. I've been glued to this thread since it started. I appreciate all the efforts by yourself
and others to accomplish this task. My question is, did I just get lucky to be one of the missing (random) or does it seem that other October 1969 build cars will also be missing? I guess my real question is whether mine might still have some hope to be found? Thanks again.

I can't answer your question about other cars missing in the same VIN area at this point. We miss about 7% of the cars we check, just the way it is. We have found batches that for some reason did not sort correctly, we have found pages that got missed in the digitization. The important thing to realize is we have kept a record of every car we missed and it is flagged as missed so if we do uncover a group of numbers we will recheck the missed cars against them and notify anyone that it affects.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: vonroll on May 15, 2014, 03:29:22 PM
The important thing to realize is we have kept a record of every car we missed and it is flagged as missed so if we do uncover a group of numbers we will recheck the missed cars against them and notify anyone that it affects.

This is fantastic news...so glad to hear this, as I'm missing.  Thanks Roy. 
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 67rs/ss396 on May 15, 2014, 06:39:02 PM
Just received an email documents in the mail order #'s 256,257,258.
One is a 67 camaro Norwood and the other 2 are Los 67 camaros.


Tony
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 15, 2014, 06:44:30 PM
Good luck.. :)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 77thor on May 15, 2014, 10:48:04 PM
I got an email today that my document is on the way.... :)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 68camaroz28 on May 16, 2014, 01:21:56 AM

What do you think Roy??  :)


I think that zone 31 dealer 073 is the dealer that was invoiced by Chevrolet for Gary's car. I do think Stan is a great guy, I was fortunate enough to be able to use him as a national team leader while I was the national judging chairman for NCRS.

Yes Sir Roy, Stan is a both a good person and has a lot of knowledge. He lives fairly close and we have been to each others garage and shared information and assistance. And thanks to the NCRS team and you Roy for getting this huge data base sharing accomplished. Today I received my letter stating "Your Chevy Muscle Docs Shipping Data Report, order number 554" has been mailed.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: LVN 67 on May 16, 2014, 01:53:17 AM
Got my e-mail today, documents sent # 455   ;D
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: xandf on May 16, 2014, 02:12:07 AM
Thanks for the response, Roy. This is good insight into the sorting and locating process. I'll stay tuned
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: JoeC on May 16, 2014, 11:10:05 AM
have a question on the missing vins 1969 Camaro 9N508855 to 9N587275

Did GM Heritage check with the NICB to see if they have the shipping/dealer info on these missing vins?

I would think they can ask to borrow the NICB microfiche, have it digitized, then return it.

If the equipment is already set up to scan the old GM Heritage microfiche, they can scan the NICB microfiche to add to the data base.

GM gave the info to NICB back in the day so should be able to have access to it.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Conquest396 on May 16, 2014, 11:42:37 AM
Roy,
Just got my refund for 9N707541. I've been glued to this thread since it started. I appreciate all the efforts by yourself
and others to accomplish this task. My question is, did I just get lucky to be one of the missing (random) or does it seem that other October 1969 build cars will also be missing? I guess my real question is whether mine might still have some hope to be found? Thanks again.

I can't answer your question about other cars missing in the same VIN area at this point. We miss about 7% of the cars we check, just the way it is. We have found batches that for some reason did not sort correctly, we have found pages that got missed in the digitization. The important thing to realize is we have kept a record of every car we missed and it is flagged as missed so if we do uncover a group of numbers we will recheck the missed cars against them and notify anyone that it affects.

I was one of the missing , got the denial. Roy Thank you for this! Following up should anything come up on our vins is great! Keep the $50! I will hold out hope that more will turn up as time goes on.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: z28z11 on May 16, 2014, 12:49:56 PM
Roy,
Just got my refund for 9N707541. I've been glued to this thread since it started. I appreciate all the efforts by yourself
and others to accomplish this task. My question is, did I just get lucky to be one of the missing (random) or does it seem that other October 1969 build cars will also be missing? I guess my real question is whether mine might still have some hope to be found? Thanks again.

I can't answer your question about other cars missing in the same VIN area at this point. We miss about 7% of the cars we check, just the way it is. We have found batches that for some reason did not sort correctly, we have found pages that got missed in the digitization. The important thing to realize is we have kept a record of every car we missed and it is flagged as missed so if we do uncover a group of numbers we will recheck the missed cars against them and notify anyone that it affects.

Roy,

I received my refund very (reluctantly) quickly - N553XXX, in the middle of the "lost" VIN's - please keep us posted on any discoveries. I do believe I would gladly double the fee to find this one, even with the documentation of the matching numbered engine that I have with the car. I was in the first day, in the first 100 to sign up, probably one of the first to get a refund, so I lost my place in line. Thanks again for all of your efforts -

Regards -
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 16, 2014, 01:30:43 PM
Roy,
Just got my refund for 9N707541. I've been glued to this thread since it started. I appreciate all the efforts by yourself
and others to accomplish this task. My question is, did I just get lucky to be one of the missing (random) or does it seem that other October 1969 build cars will also be missing? I guess my real question is whether mine might still have some hope to be found? Thanks again.

I can't answer your question about other cars missing in the same VIN area at this point. We miss about 7% of the cars we check, just the way it is. We have found batches that for some reason did not sort correctly, we have found pages that got missed in the digitization. The important thing to realize is we have kept a record of every car we missed and it is flagged as missed so if we do uncover a group of numbers we will recheck the missed cars against them and notify anyone that it affects.

Roy,

I received my refund very (reluctantly) quickly - N553XXX, in the middle of the "lost" VIN's - please keep us posted on any discoveries. I do believe I would gladly double the fee to find this one, even with the documentation of the matching numbered engine that I have with the car. I was in the first day, in the first 100 to sign up, probably one of the first to get a refund, so I lost my place in line. Thanks again for all of your efforts -

Regards -

We will get caught up on the service and when that happens the turnaround time should not be to painful. It's truly a shame this large batch of early 69 Camaro's is missing. we have confirmed the same information is missing from the NICB file as well. In the Corvette world we did a similar thing keeping track of the VIN's we missed in the initial roll out, we were able to go back and respond to better than 20% of those we initially missed.  Hopefully we will have similar success in this project.  It is a lot more complicated in this project, 10 plus plants all using the same last 6 digits, different body styles, etc. the sort routines are confusing and sometimes less than desirable.  We had one plant, two bodies, no duplicate last six on the Corvette project. By the way this sites spell check does not like Camaro - thinks it should be Camry - go figure!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: KurtS on May 18, 2014, 02:03:58 AM
Here is a listing of the zone office locations as of 1969, from GM documentation:
1   Flint MI
2   Tarrytown   NY
3   St. Louis MO
4   Minneapolis MN
5   Kansas City MO
6   Oakland CA
7   Dallas TX
8   Atlanta GA
9   Cincinnati OH
10   Denver CO
11   Chicago IL
12   Buffalo NY
13   Pittsburgh   PA
14   Baltimore MD
15   Philadelphia PA
16   Charlotte NC
17   Memphis TN
18   Des Moines IA
19   Portland, OR
20   Los Angeles CA
21   export   
22   Louisville KY
23   Oklahoma City OK
24   New Orleans LA
25   Indianapolis IN
26   Jacksonville FL
27   New York   NY
28   Cleveland   OH
29   Omaha NE
30   Houston TX
31   Birmingham AL
32   Boston MA
33   Fargo ND
34   San Diego   CA
35   Newark NJ
36   Salt Lake UT
37   Richmond   VA
39   El Paso TX
40   Charleston   WV
41   Wichita KS
42   Seattle WA
43   Portland, ME
44   Detroit MI
45   South Bend IN
46   Green Bay   WI
47   Peoria IL
48   Syracuse NY
49   Harrisburg   PA
61   Milwaukee   WI

These are from various Canadian sources - not a definitive as the above list, but I believe they are correct.
80   Oshawa   ON
81   Vancouver   BC
82   Calgary   Alberta
83   Regina   SK
84   Winnipeg   MB
85   London   ON
86   Montreal   Quebec
87   Moncton   NB
88   Ste. Foy   QC
95   Toronto   ON
96   Ottawa   ON
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: LVN 67 on May 18, 2014, 02:31:58 AM
Got my paperwork today on my  67 L-35 . The original dealer was Gibson Chevrolet Co Inc, Leadville, CO.  It was sold at Central Chevrolet Co, Grand Junction, CO, per my POP.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 18, 2014, 04:58:33 AM
Roy,
Just got my refund for 9N707541. I've been glued to this thread since it started. I appreciate all the efforts by yourself
and others to accomplish this task. My question is, did I just get lucky to be one of the missing (random) or does it seem that other October 1969 build cars will also be missing? I guess my real question is whether mine might still have some hope to be found? Thanks again.

I can't answer your question about other cars missing in the same VIN area at this point. We miss about 7% of the cars we check, just the way it is. We have found batches that for some reason did not sort correctly, we have found pages that got missed in the digitization. The important thing to realize is we have kept a record of every car we missed and it is flagged as missed so if we do uncover a group of numbers we will recheck the missed cars against them and notify anyone that it affects.

Roy,

I received my refund very (reluctantly) quickly - N553XXX, in the middle of the "lost" VIN's - please keep us posted on any discoveries. I do believe I would gladly double the fee to find this one, even with the documentation of the matching numbered engine that I have with the car. I was in the first day, in the first 100 to sign up, probably one of the first to get a refund, so I lost my place in line. Thanks again for all of your efforts -

Regards -

We will get caught up on the service and when that happens the turnaround time should not be to painful. It's truly a shame this large batch of early 69 Camaro's is missing. we have confirmed the same information is missing from the NICB file as well. In the Corvette world we did a similar thing keeping track of the VIN's we missed in the initial roll out, we were able to go back and respond to better than 20% of those we initially missed.  Hopefully we will have similar success in this project.  It is a lot more complicated in this project, 10 plus plants all using the same last 6 digits, different body styles, etc. the sort routines are confusing and sometimes less than desirable.  We had one plant, two bodies, no duplicate last six on the Corvette project. By the way this sites spell check does not like Camaro - thinks it should be Camry - go figure!

That's funny..  Camry!    that's exactly the way my dad pronounced it when they first came out.. I tried to correct him, to no avail.. :)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 18, 2014, 08:49:21 PM
Those will be the zone offices, many zones included multiple states.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: TooManyReels on May 18, 2014, 10:13:35 PM
Risnor, I have been following this subject and submitted and applications as well. This has to be a labor of love to dig and research through all these files in order to help others find out information about their car(s).  This is a great service you and your team are providing. 

I would like to thank you and your team for researching this information and sending out the information to the Camaro owners here on CRG.  To date, with the more than 600 plus application that you have received, how many actual certificates have been processed, including those that were refunded due to not being in the archive files.

 
TMR..
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: KurtS on May 19, 2014, 02:31:54 AM
Yes, I should have clarified. Every zone had a zone office and that was the location. That should match with the NCRS doc.
E.g. Alabama is zone 31.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: MyRed67 on May 19, 2014, 03:03:23 AM
Risnor, I have been following this subject and submitted and applications as well. This has to be a labor of love to dig and research through all these files in order to help others find out information about their car(s).  This is a great service you and your team are providing.
I would like to thank you and your team for researching this information and sending out the information to the Camaro owners here on CRG.  To date, with the more than 600 plus application that you have received, how many actual certificates have been processed, including those that were refunded due to not being in the archive files.
 
TMR..
X2,, I would also like to thank Risnor and his team, what a great service.  I applied for my car #801, haven't heard yet whether it's good.  Regardless, THANKS!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 19, 2014, 12:54:32 PM
Risnor, I have been following this subject and submitted and applications as well. This has to be a labor of love to dig and research through all these files in order to help others find out information about their car(s).  This is a great service you and your team are providing. 

I would like to thank you and your team for researching this information and sending out the information to the Camaro owners here on CRG.  To date, with the more than 600 plus application that you have received, how many actual certificates have been processed, including those that were refunded due to not being in the archive files.

 
TMR..

Statistics as of 5/18 we have processed 446 vehicles. 282 Camaro, 132 Chevelle and 32 Nova.  I'm not going to spend much time on these statistics because it just means at this point anyway I'm not processing reports.

Thank You all for the kind words, it is information the hobbyist deserves to have and I am pleased to be a part of it.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: DT on May 20, 2014, 12:51:57 AM
Just received my info back as well. Mohawk Chevrolet, Schenectady NY.  Great stuff, thx Roy!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: x77-69z28 on May 21, 2014, 06:48:31 AM
Got my three on Monday. Thank you Roy. If you are ever on Long Island, I owe you a beer! Or two!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 77thor on May 21, 2014, 02:09:49 PM
Got mine yesterday- - - Dealer Code 19, Zone 39, Broncho Chevrolet Co., Odessa, TX
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: hgger69 on May 22, 2014, 05:38:45 PM
Got my SDR today:

Dealer code 784 in zone 3.

Dealer name and location was:
Svanda-Meyer Chevrolet Inc.
Sparta, Illinois

Still exist but I need some nice merchandise from them, anybody?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: -vellu on May 22, 2014, 06:02:55 PM
Got mine today:

Production date 8/20/1969

Dealer code 127 in zone 20

Cormier Chevrolet Co
Long Beach, CA

Possibly this? http://www.winchevrolet.com/Win-History
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on May 22, 2014, 06:06:26 PM
I have seen these on ebay a few times:
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: -vellu on May 22, 2014, 06:23:23 PM
I have seen these on ebay a few times:

Thanks, I saw those, but I bought this which was cheaper :)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121343592270
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on May 22, 2014, 06:31:52 PM
not as old, but a lot less money.   :)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: hgger69 on May 24, 2014, 01:14:49 PM
Got my SDR today:

Dealer code 784 in zone 3.

Dealer name and location was:
Svanda-Meyer Chevrolet Inc.
Sparta, Illinois

Still exist but I need some nice merchandise from them, anybody?
Nobody heard of that dealer??
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: HOGDADDY on May 24, 2014, 05:58:39 PM
Ok I was curious which dealer my lowly 6 cyl. convertible came from.
I got this in the mail today.
Dealer code 0......oh well

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/HAWGDADDY/1_zpsdedbd3eb.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/HAWGDADDY/media/1_zpsdedbd3eb.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: vtfb68 on May 24, 2014, 06:15:48 PM
Vellu,
 Yes , the same place. It became Winn just a few years ago, I have purchased a few cars from Cormier.
 Cormier was just over the channel from Lions drag strip, and also sponsered race cars. The Green Hawaiian Dana 427 car was purchased from that dealership  before being sent to Dana for the conversion. ( BTW The Dana dealership was just a few miles up the long Beach freeway from Lion's drag strip)
     VT
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: -vellu on May 24, 2014, 08:29:02 PM
Vellu,
 Yes , the same place. It became Winn just a few years ago, I have purchased a few cars from Cormier.
 Cormier was just over the channel from Lions drag strip, and also sponsered race cars. The Green Hawaiian Dana 427 car was purchased from that dealership  before being sent to Dana for the conversion. ( BTW The Dana dealership was just a few miles up the long Beach freeway from Lion's drag strip)
     VT

Thanks!

I contacted yesterday via Facebook to the dealer and here is the answer:

                  Hello Veli, Let me check with the records department.  Your restoration projects looks very cool.  I will be in touch next week.  Thanks

So, let's see if they have any information left from that period. Since I live in Finland (Europe) data collection is a bit tricky ..

Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 6667ss138 on May 24, 2014, 08:31:26 PM
Got my NCRS dealer info today on all three of my cars. Everything matches perfect.
My 69 Z matches all the original owner history, DMV records, build date etc.  Wilkins Chevrolet, Norfolk Va.
My 66 SS Chevelle with POP, Gustafson Chevrolet, Eureka Ca.
The only one that I had no info on was my 67 SS Chevelle. Schoenfeldeh Chevrolet, Gregory, SD
Very pleased. Thank you Roy and the NCRS!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: JKZ27 on May 25, 2014, 12:33:09 PM
Has anyone been able to compare the official production date to the MSO date yet?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: myty on May 27, 2014, 04:00:52 PM
How long are the reports taking these days?  Sorry, just exited.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 27, 2014, 04:22:12 PM
I believe the current files we are working on were submitted around 5/7, we should beat the 30 day turnarounds we committed to considerably but there is a NCRS regional next week and I have a vacation coming up in a few weeks so it may not be significantly quicker than 30 days.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: MyRed67 on May 27, 2014, 07:38:58 PM
I believe the current files we are working on were submitted around 5/7, we should beat the 30 day turnarounds we committed to considerably but there is a NCRS regional next week and I have a vacation coming up in a few weeks so it may not be significantly quicker than 30 days.

Now, I'm gettin' a little more excited.  I put my order in very early on 5/8.  Just interesting to see if mine jibes with what I think the history might be.  AGAIN, I gotta send Kudos to Roy and his group.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: clm69z28 on May 27, 2014, 07:41:53 PM
I just received my shipping report (#644) for my 69 Z28 and the original delivery dealer was:

Shea Chevrolet Co.
Hackensack NJ

Production date was on June 6, 1969 which corresponds with the 06a trim tag info. Does anybody know anything about this dealer?  I understand that in 2012 it filed for bankruptcy and was closed that year, but would still like to know if anybody has any history on it and if there are any records that are still around. I know it is a long shot but I had to ask!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Kelley W King on May 27, 2014, 08:25:23 PM
I just received mine today. My number was in the mid six hundreds. 08E 69 Z 124379N676XXX. Production 8-28-69. Delivered Dealer  613-32.
Scuncio Cheverolet , Greenville RI. Having owned this car since 2001 I was told and always believed it was ordered through Scuncio Hi Performance through their HI PERF department headed by Bob Johnson. The car  came with the emblem and the key fob and talk. Now thanks to the NCRS guys I have documentation that it did come from there. Now all I need is for you Rhode Island guys to remember a Fathom Green, black deluxe inside, with no console or gauges except tach and I might get there. Thanks Roy and $50.00 well spent. Ed James told me a long time ago he thought a T. Jenkins bought it new.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 28, 2014, 12:22:31 AM
Were there any 9N7xxxxx Camaro's?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: TooManyReels on May 28, 2014, 12:32:11 AM
I got my letter today, as well. The official production date of my car was 2/28/1969..Three days later than the block stamping...Thanks Roy for providing this information. I will now do a NC title search to see where it was first titled and sold within NC...

TMR
Eddie
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 1968RSZ28 on May 28, 2014, 12:33:03 AM
Were there any 9N7xxxxx Camaro's?

Yes...  http://www.camaros.org/geninfo.shtml#HowMany

Paul
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: DeanZ10 on May 28, 2014, 03:12:48 AM
So I guess if you have a car sent to a Zone office, you are done. No way to find out anything correct??
Dealer 0 Zone 30.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Kelley W King on May 28, 2014, 12:17:55 PM
Too Many Reels. Who was your dealer? In case I might know someone.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: janobyte on May 28, 2014, 01:36:47 PM
5/1/1968         Dealer code 1   zone 21       Overseas Distribution Division--Export

#1 owner ordered while in Vietnam ,came home and picked the car up in Michigan.

Giving him a call tomorrow to find out the dealership name , not much in NCRS under code 1  zone 21 , will be able to add to the data base.

I'm taking some time off next week ,getting him over here to have a few beers see if he has any old pics.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: HOGDADDY on May 28, 2014, 02:24:37 PM
So I guess if you have a car sent to a Zone office, you are done. No way to find out anything correct??
Dealer 0 Zone 30.

It would appear that we're SOL. :(
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 28, 2014, 02:33:39 PM
So I guess if you have a car sent to a Zone office, you are done. No way to find out anything correct??
Dealer 0 Zone 30.

It would appear that we're SOL. :(

Not necessarily guys, contact the current zone office, see who was the zone manager or his assistant try to contact one of them. Maybe you have Mr. Perkin's Camaro, or Mr. Campbell's Camaro, or the Camaro that went to the New York Worlds Fair, if you just quit you won't find out anything for sure.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: DeanZ10 on May 28, 2014, 07:14:11 PM
anyone have contact info for the Houston Zone Office? Roy, you mentioned two men, who are they? (just names as example or people who owned dealerships, worked in that Zone Office,  etc?)  I don't know what I don't know..lol Thanks

Called Knapp Chevrolet in Houston.
The guy there told me that cars sent to the Zone office was ordered by an employee to drive as a company car then sold to dealer. Zone offices closed in early 80's.
So least I know something. lol 
If you know someone in Houston that knows someone that knew someone back in the day and worked at the Zone office, please let me know.

Thanks
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: TooManyReels on May 28, 2014, 09:20:39 PM
The dealer was Evans Chevrolet Inc. Bluefield W Va..I check on the web and found nothing on them. So, I'm assuming they are out of business or has been sold..I was told by a couple of people that had previously owned the car that it was sold new in NC.   I went by the DMV today and picked up the form to do a complete title search to see where it was sold and to whom.

TMR...
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: camaroman1969 on May 28, 2014, 09:43:05 PM
Hello everyone!!!!   Just received my dealer info and zone office number.   Also included was the build date of my 1969 Camaro RS/SS.  My cowl tag shows car was built "02D".
Per the letter from NCRS, car was built 3-10-69.   Would this "gap" in time be the time it took for someone back in the day to enter this info once the car was actually built???
Roy, please feel free to pipe in on this info if you can.  Thanks for all you have done here for everyone.    Don
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 28, 2014, 09:53:34 PM
anyone have contact info for the Houston Zone Office? Roy, you mentioned two men, who are they? (just names as example or people who owned dealerships, worked in that Zone Office,  etc?)  I don't know what I don't know..lol Thanks

Called Knapp Chevrolet in Houston.
The guy there told me that cars sent to the Zone office was ordered by an employee to drive as a company car then sold to dealer. Zone offices closed in early 80's.
So least I know something. lol 
If you know someone in Houston that knows someone that knew someone back in the day and worked at the Zone office, please let me know.

Thanks

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20091102/SEMA/911029996

http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/general-motors-exec-jim-campbell-discusses-impact-of-chevrolet-success-with-jimmie-johnson-and-others-111913

Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: keech on May 28, 2014, 10:36:29 PM
Were there any 9N7xxxxx Camaro's?
    damn...   I had a feeling that could be my 7091XX.    oh well . they tried
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: TRLAND on May 28, 2014, 11:46:15 PM
Hello everyone!!!!   Just received my dealer info and zone office number.   Also included was the build date of my 1969 Camaro RS/SS.  My cowl tag shows car was built "02D".
Per the letter from NCRS, car was built 3-10-69.   Would this "gap" in time be the time it took for someone back in the day to enter this info once the car was actually built???
Roy, please feel free to pipe in on this info if you can.  Thanks for all you have done here for everyone.    Don

JohnZ answered my question about this over on camaros.net  Here is his exact quote: "the cowl tag date is the WEEK during which the body started being welded together in the Body Shop, and the GM production date on the shipping report letter is the DAY the completed, finished car was produced off the end of the Final Line."
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: camaroman1969 on May 29, 2014, 12:15:52 AM
Thank you for the comment on this issue .  Anyone else here, feel free to comment also.  Would also like Roy Sinor's views on this.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Gramps69Z on May 29, 2014, 12:17:10 AM
Were there any 9N7xxxxx Camaro's?

Mine,,,,,,.9N704511
You got something special for those?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: janobyte on May 29, 2014, 12:46:36 AM
Hello everyone!!!!   Just received my dealer info and zone office number.   Also included was the build date of my 1969 Camaro RS/SS.  My cowl tag shows car was built "02D".
Per the letter from NCRS, car was built 3-10-69.   Would this "gap" in time be the time it took for someone back in the day to enter this info once the car was actually built???
Roy, please feel free to pipe in on this info if you can.  Thanks for all you have done here for everyone.    Don

The date will coincide with the month on your P.O.P
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 29, 2014, 03:05:30 AM
Hello everyone!!!!   Just received my dealer info and zone office number.   Also included was the build date of my 1969 Camaro RS/SS.  My cowl tag shows car was built "02D".
Per the letter from NCRS, car was built 3-10-69.   Would this "gap" in time be the time it took for someone back in the day to enter this info once the car was actually built???
Roy, please feel free to pipe in on this info if you can.  Thanks for all you have done here for everyone.    Don

The date will coincide with the month on your P.O.P
Were there any 9N7xxxxx Camaro's?

Mine,,,,,,.9N704511
You got something special for those?

No, but we are having thoat series of numbers rechecked to make sure we did not miss some of them.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 29, 2014, 03:06:54 AM
Thank you for the comment on this issue .  Anyone else here, feel free to comment also.  Would also like Roy Sinor's views on this.

John explained better than I could
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on May 29, 2014, 03:09:05 AM
Hello everyone!!!!   Just received my dealer info and zone office number.   Also included was the build date of my 1969 Camaro RS/SS.  My cowl tag shows car was built "02D".
Per the letter from NCRS, car was built 3-10-69.   Would this "gap" in time be the time it took for someone back in the day to enter this info once the car was actually built???
Roy, please feel free to pipe in on this info if you can.  Thanks for all you have done here for everyone.    Don

The date will coincide with the month on your P.O.P

Not sure I agree with that what if your car sat on a lot unsold for several weeks even months? The P.O.P is filled out when the car sold, isn't it?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 29, 2014, 03:14:04 AM
Of course Roy is correct; the imprinted 'tape' date, along with the new owners name and address are put on the POP when car is purchased.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: z28z11 on May 29, 2014, 03:38:35 AM
Has anyone been able to compare the official production date to the MSO date yet?

Thanks for asking this again - surely somebody has the MSO on their car and the dealer/build info by now. Am I going to have to send another $50.00 in to answer this ?

Regards
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: janobyte on May 29, 2014, 10:47:58 AM
B-29     Vehicle Build Month

One-character code from the following table.            Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul
      1967  V   L   R   K   Z   S   P   W   N   Y   T   X
      1968  8   9   O   N   D   1   2   3   4   5   6   7
      1969  8   9   O   N   D   1   2   3   4   5   6   7
 late 1969  8   9   O   N

These codes were impregnated by the dealer ?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: x66 714 on May 29, 2014, 11:46:19 AM
 
Has anyone been able to compare the official production date to the MSO date yet?

Thanks for asking this again - surely somebody has the MSO on their car and the dealer/build info by now. Am I going to have to send another $50.00 in to answer this ?

Regards
My order numbers are 916 & 917. As soon as I receive mine I can post the details...Joe
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Kelley W King on May 29, 2014, 12:23:11 PM
As far as cowl tag verses NCRS build date date my cowl says 08E and the letter says 8-28-1969 which I think is Thursday of the E week.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: -vellu on May 29, 2014, 02:22:29 PM
As far as cowl tag verses NCRS build date date my cowl says 08E and the letter says 8-28-1969 which I think is Thursday of the E week.

My cowl says 08C and NCRS letter says 8/20/1969 (Wednesday)

http://www.searchforancestors.com/utility/dayofweek.html
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Mark on May 29, 2014, 02:51:42 PM
Remember the NCRS date is the day the car left the back door of the plant and is obviously calendar based, the cowl tag is the week the car was scheduled to be built and may not exactly follow the calendar weeks.  Also it took about 4 days to go from a firewall to a car rolling out the back door.  So if the car left the plant on a Wednesday, it was probably a firewall on the Friday of the week before.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: JohnZ on May 29, 2014, 03:13:32 PM
B-29     Vehicle Build Month

One-character code from the following table.            Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul
      1967  V   L   R   K   Z   S   P   W   N   Y   T   X
      1968  8   9   O   N   D   1   2   3   4   5   6   7
      1969  8   9   O   N   D   1   2   3   4   5   6   7
 late 1969  8   9   O   N

These codes were impregnated by the dealer ?

Nope. Everything that was die-imprinted on the P-O-P was done at the plant, when the plate was created in the Addressograph machine on the Final Line. All the dealer added was the GM-branded Dymo tape with the purchaser's name and address.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: cook_dw on May 29, 2014, 04:10:48 PM
Nope. Everything that was die-imprinted on the P-O-P was done at the plant, when the plate was created in the Addressograph machine on the Final Line.

Do you happen to know if this was the same for all vehicles and plants?  Because this brings up an interesting topic non Camaro related.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 29, 2014, 07:19:53 PM
B-29     Vehicle Build Month

One-character code from the following table.            Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul
      1967  V   L   R   K   Z   S   P   W   N   Y   T   X
      1968  8   9   O   N   D   1   2   3   4   5   6   7
      1969  8   9   O   N   D   1   2   3   4   5   6   7
 late 1969  8   9   O   N

These codes were impregnated by the dealer ?

Nope. Everything that was die-imprinted on the P-O-P was done at the plant, when the plate was created in the Addressograph machine on the Final Line. All the dealer added was the GM-branded Dymo tape with the purchaser's name and address.

JohnZ...  I believe the 'date of sale' was also included by the Dealer on the DYMO tape with the purchaser, as that sale date specified the initiation of the warranty period.   If I'm wrong please correct me...  I'm going from memory of one I have from 1969.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Daytona Yellow 69 Z/28 on May 29, 2014, 08:34:47 PM
I just got my report today on my 68 SSRS 396, Thank you again Roy.  ;D Anyway my tag shows 05D and the report shows a production date of 5/24/1968. The really good news is the dealer code was 972 in zone 10 which is Hajek Chevrolet in Longmont, CO and they are still in business. I have owned this car since the beginning of 1980 and the only real past I knew of is the the pervious owner told me he bought the car in the Pueblo, CO area in 1978. Over the years I have ran craigs list adds in Pueblo asking for info on previous owners but never turned up anything and the last time I ran the add it got flagged and removed with in 12 hours.  :'( I never had any idea where the car was really from and this is the best info yet and at least gives me some hope.

 Now my question is.. I want to call the dealer and try and ask for some possible info from way back when it was sold, who would you ask to speak to if you were doing this? I tried this on my 69 Z back in about 2000 at the dealer in OK that sold it but never really got anywhere as I dont think they really wanted to bother with me. Any advice who I should try to speak to and questions I should ask?

Thank you in advance,
 Nick
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: cook_dw on May 29, 2014, 09:28:13 PM
Now my question is.. I want to call the dealer and try and ask for some possible info from way back when it was sold, who would you ask to speak to if you were doing this? I tried this on my 69 Z back in about 2000 at the dealer in OK that sold it but never really got anywhere as I dont think they really wanted to bother with me. Any advice who I should try to speak to and questions I should ask?

Thank you in advance,
 Nick

I am going through the same thing.  Ive called and talked with the Manager of Sales & Manager of Finance and they are supposed to be looking into it.  Its been a couple weeks now and I havent heard anything.  I will probably wait another week or so and make another friendly reminder call and see if anything has come up.   ;)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: janobyte on May 29, 2014, 10:18:13 PM
B-29     Vehicle Build Month

One-character code from the following table.            Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul
      1967  V   L   R   K   Z   S   P   W   N   Y   T   X
      1968  8   9   O   N   D   1   2   3   4   5   6   7
      1969  8   9   O   N   D   1   2   3   4   5   6   7
 late 1969  8   9   O   N

These codes were impregnated by the dealer ?

Nope. Everything that was die-imprinted on the P-O-P was done at the plant, when the plate was created in the Addressograph machine on the Final Line. All the dealer added was the GM-branded Dymo tape with the purchaser's name and address.

JohnZ...  I believe the 'date of sale' was also included by the Dealer on the DYMO tape with the purchaser, as that sale date specified the initiation of the warranty period.   If I'm wrong please correct me...  I'm going from memory of one I have from 1969.

Here's how mine goes down: 04D body assembly began
                                          P.O.P  B-29  build month: "5" May
                                          Report came back reading May 1
                                          No dates on 3 tape strips Buyer's name , mailing address
                                          In booklet under tag : Delivery day: 6-25-68  in ink
Thanks John, after reading (and decoding) thought I was correct on the dates, and which ones should match...you verified. The above is just mine, and a 68, curious if others vary ?
                                         
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 29, 2014, 10:57:52 PM
B-29     Vehicle Build Month

One-character code from the following table.            Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul
      1967  V   L   R   K   Z   S   P   W   N   Y   T   X
      1968  8   9   O   N   D   1   2   3   4   5   6   7
      1969  8   9   O   N   D   1   2   3   4   5   6   7
 late 1969  8   9   O   N

These codes were impregnated by the dealer ?

Nope. Everything that was die-imprinted on the P-O-P was done at the plant, when the plate was created in the Addressograph machine on the Final Line. All the dealer added was the GM-branded Dymo tape with the purchaser's name and address.

JohnZ...  I believe the 'date of sale' was also included by the Dealer on the DYMO tape with the purchaser, as that sale date specified the initiation of the warranty period.   If I'm wrong please correct me...  I'm going from memory of one I have from 1969.

Here's how mine goes down: 04D body assembly began
                                          P.O.P  B-29  build month: "5" May
                                          Report came back reading May 1
                                          No dates on 3 tape strips Buyer's name , mailing address
                                          In booklet under tag : Delivery day: 6-25-68  in ink
Thanks John, after reading (and decoding) thought I was correct on the dates, and which ones should match...you verified. The above is just mine, and a 68, curious if others vary ?                                     
Perhaps putting the delivery date on the dymo label varied by dealer, or perhaps they sometimes *forgot* to add it, but when a car came in for service, the service order was printed from the P-T-P dymo... with the owners name, address, AND date..   at least for the two 1969 P-T-P's that I have.  see photo.   It makes sense that the delivery date should be included to make it easier for the service writer/tech to verify car still in warranty (or not)..

Gary
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: janobyte on May 29, 2014, 11:41:26 PM
Mine was also ordered from a serviceman overseas ,no dealership printed on warranty book :" Foreign Distributers Division." Perhaps it made a difference. Pretty cool when all the dots connect with the dates :)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: vtfb68 on May 30, 2014, 12:02:34 AM
Nick,
 is your car a LA or Norwood? My car is a 05C, with a birth date of 5/6/68. Just wondering.
    VT
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Daytona Yellow 69 Z/28 on May 30, 2014, 12:04:37 AM
Nick,
 is your car a LA or Norwood? My car is a 05C, with a birth date of 5/6/68. Just wondering.
    VT
It's an 05D Norwood car
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: janobyte on May 30, 2014, 01:04:44 AM
You are correct Gary, looked at another 68 protection plan booklet I have ,on the P.O.P tape next to buyer's city/state : 7/18/68,underneath Delivery date : 7/18/68 ( not a Camaro, old Chevy II I had in high school)

Not a funny story at the time...this one and the one for the Z sort have been intermingling for years in the glove compartment(no idea how it made it's way in there?)

Grabbed this one holding it up to the mirror and froze, in a panic about sprinted back out to the car and there was the bag with the Z's upside down in the glove compartment, little safer place now !

Why the Z's is different ? different dealers, different ordering circumstances ? One was built to get groceries ,one was built to GET IT ?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: hotrod68 on May 30, 2014, 02:38:16 AM
 I had Chevy Muscle Docs run my VIN and was excited to possibly learn more on the history of my '68. Unfortunately I was one of the few whose VIN could not be deciphered and identified. My car is a very early Norwood car...#1750...so perhaps that is why it couldn't be traced. But kudos to everyone else--you guys must be thrilled to have gotten your info. Keep 'em rolling!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Daytona Yellow 69 Z/28 on May 30, 2014, 07:32:22 PM
Well I made the call today and turned up bust.  :( Apparently Hajek Chevrolet, was sold 2 years ago and is now King Chevrolet. I spoke to both the finance manager & the sales manager and neither had any info although the sales manager took my # and said he would ask around. I may go back to running craigs list adds only this time in Denver and see if that turns up anything.. The search continues...  ;D
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: MyRed67 on June 01, 2014, 12:56:19 AM
WooHoo!  Got my notification e-mail today, it's in the mail.  Order #801, they're moving right along.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rare396bronze on June 01, 2014, 02:12:05 AM
Just got my notice #977 has been mailed. Have MSO & dealer invoice already. Will have answer for you Steve next week!  WooHOO!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: x66 714 on June 01, 2014, 04:54:08 AM
I got my notice today & I have my MSOs also...Joe
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rare396bronze on June 03, 2014, 01:25:48 AM
Just received my shipping report Steve production date 6/11/68 MSO date 6/12/68 tried to put dealer information in data base would not go in. Here is information on dealer if somebody can put this in. Chip Barwick Chevrolet 740 Union Ave Memphis TN 38103 Zone#17 Dealer code#55 They sold out but no the were around in 69. Thanks
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69camcon on June 03, 2014, 02:04:15 AM
Order #617 (May 4) Received (June 2)

Production Date 2/17/1969 Matched perfectly with my buildsheet date.

Dealer Code 219 in zone 6

Dealer was Fitzpatrick Chevrolet, Concord, CA.

The dealership was 15 minutes away from the address on my 2nd owner protecto plate. Still working out some details with the previous owners I'm in touch with.

From what I found on Fitzpatrick Chevy opened in 1948 and shutdown sometime in the last few years.  Anyone know anything about Fitzpatrick?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Larry on June 03, 2014, 02:46:51 AM
Just received my Shipping Data Report today. The unusual information on this report is that the official production date for my car is 1/3/68. The trim tag has 12E. I suppose that assembly was started on the last production day in 1967 and was finished on the first production day in 1968. Here is a picture of the trim tag.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: z28z11 on June 03, 2014, 03:06:40 AM
I got my notice today & I have my MSOs also...Joe

How's the correlation between the MSO date and the production date ? One day off ?

Regards -
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: x66 714 on June 03, 2014, 11:40:43 AM
I just got the notice of them being shipped on Saturday. I should receive them in a couple of days...Joe
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Larry on June 03, 2014, 11:42:13 AM
I do not have a copy of the MSO. I do have a copy of the first title. It was sold to the original owner on 1/10/68.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: MyRed67 on June 03, 2014, 07:49:00 PM
Got my Report today.  Not the news I was hoping for, just added another piece to the puzzle.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: x66 714 on June 03, 2014, 11:03:02 PM
I got mine today & this is how they compare to the MSO

The 68 z/28 production date was Wednesday 3/13/1968.......The MSO transfer day was Monday 3/18/1968 on invoice KL19379

The 69 ss396 production date was Thursday 8/28/1969........The MSO transfer date was Thursday 9/4/1969 on invoice KN15878

Both were delivered & sold by O'rielly Motor Company Tucson, Az. Dealer code 223, zone 39

......Joe

Thank you to all that were involved in gathering this information. Hopefully more will show up in the future.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Mike S on June 03, 2014, 11:14:29 PM
Got my Report today.  Not the news I was hoping for, just added another piece to the puzzle.
What was the news, Mike?

Mike
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Mike S on June 03, 2014, 11:20:18 PM
  I got mine today and the dealer was Spielman Motor Sales in Brooklyn, NY. I looked up the name in Google and got back news paper articles with that car dealers name going back to 1929 and many in the 1940's. Last records I can find for them are dated 1975 for pension trustee counts. Looking at Google maps I see there is a Key Foods shopping plaza on the property  :'(
 Oh well.....at least I now know who it was that sold the car. Looking at Google maps, you can 'drive' around the roads and see the other properties. I told my wife at least I can see the original buildings that are still standing there and the roads my car once drove down. That in itself was a strange feeling.

Mike
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: GordonOne on June 03, 2014, 11:43:23 PM
Well mine just came today, built in Van Nuys FEB. 26th 1969   dealer code 147 zone 20......to Davies Chevrolet inc. Glendora Calif. < anybody know of this dealership. Thanks Gordonone
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: MyRed67 on June 04, 2014, 12:17:52 AM
Got my Report today.  Not the news I was hoping for, just added another piece to the puzzle.
What was the news, Mike?

Mike
Mike;  Zepelak Chevrolet Inc.,  Elmhurst, IL.  We thought it was sold at Pela Chevrolet in Rock City, IL. as there was a dealer sticker on the back.  Maybe it was resold there as a used car at some point.  I did another thread here seeking some info.;
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=12294.0
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rare396bronze on June 04, 2014, 02:45:19 AM
Hey Steve I wonder since my car was special order car if they got shipped out on MSO out quicker than regular dealer stock order cars. Also checked out MSO invoice my #N019561
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: hotrod68 on June 04, 2014, 04:24:44 AM
  They found mine. It was delivered to Indian River Chevrolet in Cocoa, Florida. It says the delivery code was 283 in Zone 26. It lists the production date as August 29, 1968.
  This raises a question: My car is #1750. Shouldn't it have been built in August 1967? Perhaps I'm confusing something here, but weren't the cars built to coincide with the model year release in the fall of the old model year?  I.E. weren't 1968 model cars released late-year 1967? Maybe I'm all wet here. Help!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: z28z11 on June 04, 2014, 04:54:51 AM
Hey Steve I wonder since my car was special order car if they got shipped out on MSO out quicker than regular dealer stock order cars. Also checked out MSO invoice my #N019561

Mine were not special order cars, so I'll have to check this against my MSO's. First thing first, the Pace Car is going to get the treatment - probably followed by the '68, then the '9 Z. Be interesting to see if the '68 is close like yours, since they are close in build week.

Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: x77-69z28 on June 04, 2014, 04:55:10 AM
 I got mine today and the dealer was Spielman Motor Sales in Brooklyn, NY. I looked up the name in Google and got back news paper articles with that car dealers name going back to 1929 and many in the 1940's. Last records I can find for them are dated 1975 for pension trustee counts. Looking at Google maps I see there is a Key Foods shopping plaza on the property  :'(
 Oh well.....at least I now know who it was that sold the car. Looking at Google maps, you can 'drive' around the roads and see the other properties. I told my wife at least I can see the original buildings that are still standing there and the roads my car once drove down. That in itself was a strange feeling.

Mike
where were they located mike? My mom grew up in bushwick and there was a Chevy dealership across the street on bushwick ave. they were out of business by the time the riots hit in 77.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: hgger69 on June 04, 2014, 06:50:07 AM
Got my SDR today:

Dealer code 784 in zone 3.

Dealer name and location was:
 Chevrolet Inc.
Sparta, Illinois

Still exist but I need some nice merchandise from them, anybody?
Nobody heard of that dealer??
It seems that my dealer is unknown for most of you guys from the US & A..... :(
They're still in business and I gave them a call yesterday.....but they didn't have any old stuff what so ever left....long gone...and no feeling for the past at all either, sad for me! :(
I can't find any interesting on the net either so I guess this wasn't the largest dealer in Illinois but the fact that they still are in business would be a good sign..?!
This is what I know so far:
The dealership dates back to 1925 when it was known as the Sparta Motor Co. J.D. Lyle, Jr., and J.M. Lyle sold the dealership to Otto and Norman Svend and Ralph Meyer in 1959.  Chevrolet moved to its current location in 1965. Meyer sold his share in 1971 when the dealership became Svend Chevrolet.

Otto Svend sold his shares to Norman Svend in 1981. Gary Svend became president of the dealership upon Norman's retirement in 1986, with John Menthol, who started with the dealership in 1969, becoming a partner. Menthol bought the full dealership in 1990.

I really would like to get some merchandise like frames for the license plate, old pics, key tags or similar.....

Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Mike S on June 04, 2014, 12:29:23 PM
Quote
where were they located mike? My mom grew up in bushwick and there was a Chevy dealership across the street on bushwick ave. they were out of business by the time the riots hit in 77.
Hi Buddy,
 The address was:  Spielman Motor Sales Co., Inc. 220-24 Greenpoint Avenue, Brooklyn. N. Y.
It was on the corner of Greenpoint Ave. and McGuinness Blvd.

Mike
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: dannystarr on June 04, 2014, 05:32:28 PM
Got one that says "GM Overseas Distribution" Possibly the Netherlands. Bummer... Ya think this might have been a serviceman working overseas and ordered it up? The original Delivery Dealer = Dealer Code 1 Zone 21 . Anybody know what or where that is?...Danny
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Petes L48 on June 04, 2014, 08:10:34 PM
Got one that says "GM Overseas Distribution" Possibly the Netherlands. Bummer... Ya think this might have been a serviceman working overseas and ordered it up? The original Delivery Dealer = Dealer Code 1 Zone 21 . Anybody know what or where that is?...Danny

Look back a few pages, Kurt posted a long list of Zones as of 1969 and #21 was "export"
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 1968RSZ28 on June 04, 2014, 08:22:06 PM
Got one that says "GM Overseas Distribution" Possibly the Netherlands. Bummer... Ya think this might have been a serviceman working overseas and ordered it up? The original Delivery Dealer = Dealer Code 1 Zone 21 . Anybody know what or where that is?...Danny

Look back a few pages, Kurt posted a long list of Zones as of 1969 and #21 was "export"

Here is a listing of the zone office locations as of 1969, from GM documentation:
1   Flint MI
2   Tarrytown   NY
3   St. Louis MO
4   Minneapolis MN
5   Kansas City MO
6   Oakland CA
7   Dallas TX
8   Atlanta GA
9   Cincinnati OH
10   Denver CO
11   Chicago IL
12   Buffalo NY
13   Pittsburgh   PA
14   Baltimore MD
15   Philadelphia PA
16   Charlotte NC
17   Memphis TN
18   Des Moines IA
19   Portland, OR
20   Los Angeles CA
21   export   
22   Louisville KY
23   Oklahoma City OK
24   New Orleans LA
25   Indianapolis IN
26   Jacksonville FL
27   New York   NY
28   Cleveland   OH
29   Omaha NE
30   Houston TX
31   Birmingham AL
32   Boston MA
33   Fargo ND
34   San Diego   CA
35   Newark NJ
36   Salt Lake UT
37   Richmond   VA
39   El Paso TX
40   Charleston   WV
41   Wichita KS
42   Seattle WA
43   Portland, ME
44   Detroit MI
45   South Bend IN
46   Green Bay   WI
47   Peoria IL
48   Syracuse NY
49   Harrisburg   PA
61   Milwaukee   WI

These are from various Canadian sources - not a definitive as the above list, but I believe they are correct.
80   Oshawa   ON
81   Vancouver   BC
82   Calgary   Alberta
83   Regina   SK
84   Winnipeg   MB
85   London   ON
86   Montreal   Quebec
87   Moncton   NB
88   Ste. Foy   QC
95   Toronto   ON
96   Ottawa   ON


Paul
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69glacierblue on June 06, 2014, 03:00:56 AM
Came in the mail yesterday, #846Ö
Dealer code 592, zone 11, Yarnall-Todd Chevrolet, Chicago area, IL
A little research and it is now (and has been for quite a while) Bill Stasek Chevrolet. Anyone familiar with the place?
Of some interest to me was my trim tag shows 06A, all my parts show last week or so of June (all Norwood '69 June Camaros were 06A) and CRG had my VIN # in July.  I always wondered if my car got held back for touchup or something and left a little later than it should have, but my document from NCRS says official production date was 7/2/69.  After reading earlier posts about trim tags and production dates it's cool to see the actual info and understand it better.  Another big 'Thank you' Roy Sinor!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: ZLP955 on June 08, 2014, 11:33:20 PM
Heard Roy Sinor may not be involved in this programme any longer, can anyone confirm? If so, I hope it was always the plan to get it up and running and then hand it over. This is a great service and I'd like to say another big "Thank You" to Roy and the NCRS.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: janobyte on June 08, 2014, 11:46:39 PM
Got one that says "GM Overseas Distribution" Possibly the Netherlands. Bummer... Ya think this might have been a serviceman working overseas and ordered it up? The original Delivery Dealer = Dealer Code 1 Zone 21 . Anybody know what or where that is?...Danny

Look back a few pages, Kurt posted a long list of Zones as of 1969 and #21 was "export"

Dealer code 1 zone 21---same as mine, ordered while on tour. Did get delivered to a dealership in Michigan, and picked up like any other car. As a matter of fact, he had the dealer install a Sun Tac in dash ,ordered headers,etc. In the warranty book, on mine anyway, does not list the dealer. When I get with him , I'll find out the dealership name. Perhaps code 1 serviced a broad area for guys coming back as "home" was just west of Cleveland.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 6667ss138 on June 08, 2014, 11:58:31 PM
Heard Roy Sinor may not be involved in this programme any longer, can anyone confirm? If so, I hope it was always the plan to get it up and running and then hand it over. This is a great service and I'd like to say another big "Thank You" to Roy and the NCRS.
I had heard the same thing and was wondering myself.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on June 09, 2014, 12:38:30 AM
Guys two answers, zone 21 dealer 1 was overseas distribution, some cars were order by servicemen stationed overseas and delivered overseas, some were ordered by servicemen and delivered state side when they returned and some were exported to foreign countries. all of those things were handled by the overseas distribution division.

Secondly I am no longer involved with NCRS in any shape form or fashion, I'm proud of what this service provides, I'm proud of my service record to NCRS, I'm proud of the lifetime achievement award presented to me last July., I wanted to continue working on this project but will not be doing that. 

I no lkonger have access to any of the information.

Enough said.

Sorry
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Jerry@CHP on June 09, 2014, 01:08:59 AM
Roy, enjoy working with you at Barrett Jackson and I know you have a lot on your plate.  I hope that everything for you continues to move in a positive direction.  We'll always have plenty to do at BJ.  See you in Reno.

Jerry
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 6667ss138 on June 09, 2014, 01:25:16 AM
Roy, your hard work is more appreciated than you will ever know. Thanks again and all the best with your future endeavors.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: ZLP955 on June 09, 2014, 03:00:31 AM
Roy, your hard work is more appreciated than you will ever know. Thanks again and all the best with your future endeavors.
Couldn't have said it better. Thank you Roy.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Kelley W King on June 09, 2014, 12:17:41 PM
Roy,
Sorry to hear that. Hope someone else picks where you left off. Your enthusiasm has been great. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: HOT3O2 on June 09, 2014, 08:07:28 PM
Roy, I too thank you for all you've done to help us out. I also appreciate you monitoring the site and answering everyone questions. (And there have been a lot). You've really been on top of things. I do hope this service will continue to be available to us all. Thanks again Roy.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on June 09, 2014, 08:29:13 PM
I'm pretty sure the service will continue, I'm not privy to any of the details, do not know the plans, or who will process the stuff.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: x66 714 on June 09, 2014, 10:59:33 PM
Any clue who we could contact before sending 50 bucks?.....Joe
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 68camaroz28 on June 10, 2014, 12:35:42 AM
More info here- http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-and-c2-corvettes/3481298-ncrs-absurdity.html
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: cook_dw on June 10, 2014, 01:49:24 AM
Wow...  Nothing new..  Everything is political and you can not please 100% of the people 100% of the time.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Mike S on June 10, 2014, 01:50:37 AM
More info here- http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-and-c2-corvettes/3481298-ncrs-absurdity.html
The word 'implosion' comes to mind after reading it. Even smaller car clubs I know of here on Long Island, internal politics gets in the way often and leads to member strife. I can only image with a larger organization such as NCRS that this can happen too. People = egos too often is the case.
I've seen far better stability in outlaw motorcycle clubs over the years when it comes to organizational internal politics.  ;)
  I was hoping to get my other Camaro researched but now that Roy is gone I wonder if that service will be available anymore.

Mike
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: cam69aro on June 10, 2014, 04:20:57 AM
so it seems to me they threaten law suits because somebody speaks their mind ? won`t correct a judging guide that has been wrong for a decade ? then close down the documentation service that makes them money ? it sure does seem like some big ego`s clashing and not playing nice. kind of like school yard bullies. i guess charging 50.00 just to see where a car was sold new they maybe should keep it going. lets see, 200,000 plus camaros, now add how ever many nova`s and chevelles that adds up to alot of coin. interesting to see where this goes. great read by the way, thanks for posting the link.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: ZLP955 on June 10, 2014, 04:41:15 AM
Eldon, I'm not familiar with what is/has been going on within the NCRS at a wider level, but do know from Roy's comments here and elsewhere that the amount of time involved in cataloging and sorting all the microfiche data for the Shipper Reports into searchable records is so extensive, especially given the Nova/Camaro/Chevelle records cover many final assembly plants, in comparison to Corvette records.
Would imagine it's possible that the fee barely covers the NCRS team's costs.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on June 10, 2014, 04:52:25 AM
so it seems to me they threaten law suits because somebody speaks their mind ? won`t correct a judging guide that has been wrong for a decade ? then close down the documentation service that makes them money ? it sure does seem like some big ego`s clashing and not playing nice. kind of like school yard bullies. i guess charging 50.00 just to see where a car was sold new they maybe should keep it going. lets see, 200,000 plus camaros, now add how ever many nova`s and chevelles that adds up to alot of coin. interesting to see where this goes. great read by the way, thanks for posting the link.

Eldon - not defending NCRS here for sure but before you put to much stock in what you read from the whiners, you should try and find an organization that has done a better job of promoting restoration in the car hobby world. The recent actions by the current directors are not reflective of how the organization got where it is.








Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: cam69aro on June 10, 2014, 05:35:25 AM
Tim, Roy, that would be all the more reason to keep the service going, every 50.00 back to the organization is 50.00 more in the kitty. there must be a few people that are still waiting for their info. Roy must have been the one and only person doing all this research if it all of a sudden stops ? Thank you Roy for all you did for this group and for the corvette owners too.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 68camaroz28 on June 10, 2014, 11:35:17 AM
so it seems to me they threaten law suits because somebody speaks their mind ? won`t correct a judging guide that has been wrong for a decade ? then close down the documentation service that makes them money ? it sure does seem like some big ego`s clashing and not playing nice. kind of like school yard bullies. i guess charging 50.00 just to see where a car was sold new they maybe should keep it going. lets see, 200,000 plus camaros, now add how ever many nova`s and chevelles that adds up to alot of coin. interesting to see where this goes. great read by the way, thanks for posting the link.

Eldon - not defending NCRS here for sure but before you put to much stock in what you read from the whiners, you should try and find an organization that has done a better job of promoting restoration in the car hobby world. The recent actions by the current directors are not reflective of how the organization got where it is.

I'm a member of the NCRS and as Roy (thank you Roy for your NCRS service over the many years) stated "find an organization that has done a better job of promoting restoration". I've said many times I wish we in this great Camaro hobby had an organization that was similar and had a guideline for restoration.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: cook_dw on June 10, 2014, 11:42:39 AM
so it seems to me they threaten law suits because somebody speaks their mind ? won`t correct a judging guide that has been wrong for a decade ? then close down the documentation service that makes them money ? it sure does seem like some big ego`s clashing and not playing nice. kind of like school yard bullies. i guess charging 50.00 just to see where a car was sold new they maybe should keep it going. lets see, 200,000 plus camaros, now add how ever many nova`s and chevelles that adds up to alot of coin. interesting to see where this goes. great read by the way, thanks for posting the link.

Eldon - not defending NCRS here for sure but before you put to much stock in what you read from the whiners, you should try and find an organization that has done a better job of promoting restoration in the car hobby world. The recent actions by the current directors are not reflective of how the organization got where it is.

I'm a member of the NCRS and as Roy (thank you Roy for your NCRS service over the many years) stated "find an organization that has done a better job of promoting restoration". I've said many times I wish we in this great Camaro hobby had an organization that was similar and had a guideline for restoration.



The funny thing is we have most if not all the pieces of the puzzle right here they just need to be put together.   ;)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: ko-lek-tor on June 10, 2014, 12:22:16 PM
DW, I was thinking the same thought. We do have "all the pieces"". Yet, After reading many of the comments on the Corvette site, I can see how dissention can occur.

What I am reffering to is that someone(group) decides on a standard to judge the cars by and everyone scrambles to make their car conform.

Yet, here on CRG, we kind of celebrate the diversity and realize and document the variances we find. It is a learning process. To say all the cars(insert your year and model) are "cookie cutter" exact would erase what all the years of site research have netted. An example: My 396 car has (had) only one screw holding the RH tailpipe hanger on and only 2 clips holding the muncie speedo cable in place. Although the AIM shows and I know both these details are not in conformance with what is known as correct, I am leaving the car "as found" even if it would cause "points" loss, which has no interest to me. On the other hand, with the flame paint job it had, I am glad there are documented examples of stripes, and other details I can reference, here, on the site.
To summarize: it is good to know how it should be when restoring and also good to keep it unique knowing things were not exact on the assembly line. NCRS, while probably the best organization promoting the Vette, has, or can have, inherent flaws in establishing conformity regarding judging standards.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Mike S on June 10, 2014, 12:53:00 PM
Yet, here on CRG, we kind of celebrate the diversity and realize and document the variances we find. It is a learning process. To say all the cars(insert your year and model) are "cookie cutter" exact would erase what all the years of site research have netted. ........snip.......

  Although the AIM shows and I know both these details are not in conformance with what is known as correct, I am leaving the car "as found" even if it would cause "points" loss, which has no interest to me.
  Two of the best observations I have seen and fully agree with and live by. If every car was from a 'cookie cutter' then there would be no reason for a research group, now would there? The major thing that keeps me staying with CRG is it doesn't operate in a rigid and sterile mode, as if often the case with other organizations.
  I have been in this group long enough to see some parts that were once considered to be wrong now accepted as being correct and actually used. An example is the brass oil line used on early 67's vs. the rubber grommet. The brass union was considered after market until more people started to come forward with their examples of the brass fittings with the same vendor stampings.

Mike
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: cook_dw on June 10, 2014, 02:22:46 PM
I certainly do not think it needs to be an exact copy of the NCRS...  My comment was referring to the forum.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: TODD on June 11, 2014, 12:27:03 AM
So, if I put in my request for my documentation on 6/4 what should I expect a check back saying we no longer offer this service?
Hmm. Will they finish existing orders?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: z28z11 on June 11, 2014, 04:22:49 AM
We'll find out - just placed my second order. Site is still working, order acknowledged by Marilyn Heitzman, Chevy Muscle Docs Historical Document Services Administrator. I'll report back when (and if) it arrives.

Thanks again to Roy for all the work he put into this over the last many months. Keeping my fingers crossed that this one goes through (first one was in the group of "no shows").

Regards
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Ue on June 11, 2014, 09:13:58 AM
Thanks to NCRS, I received my shipping report today.
Order number - 912 (time to delivery was exactly 30 days as promised which is good considering it had to come to Australia).
Dealer code 107 in zone 19.
Dealer - Courtesy Chevrolet, Medford, Oregon.

I've searched but cannot find any information on this dealership except for one in Arizona and another in San Jose. Does anyone have any info on them or know where I could start looking?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: ZLP955 on June 11, 2014, 10:13:47 AM
Ue, it's not in the best condition, but you may be interested in this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/360306775272
If so, better be quick as it has a couple of watchers and a few offers been made.
Note that it won't quite fit a standard size Aus plate, but depending what state you're in, you can get standard US-sized plates, NSW (where I am) being one of them. Otherwise just a cool bit of relevant period memorabilia for your shed/workshop wall.

EDIT: did some searching. Found a thread regarding a car that was sold new from that dealership, link HERE (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/242313/Searchpage/1/Main/22567/Words/Medford/Search/true/80-z28-4spd-350-survivor-26k-o#Post242313). Couple of the photos show 2 different addresses, which look (as best I can tell) like:
Corner S Riverside & Barnett, Medford OR
and
227 E 9th PO Box Medford OR
Can't find anything current under that dealer name, although there is still a dealer on S Riverside - Dollar Buick GMC.
Also note that on the 1980 paperwork via the link above, the dealer code is 19-108, which is different from the 19-107 on your NCRS Report; seems the dealer codes could change over the years, so would imagine sometime between when your car sold and 1980 it was changed from 107 to 108.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 6667ss138 on June 11, 2014, 11:55:53 AM
Thanks to NCRS, I received my shipping report today.
Order number - 912 (time to delivery was exactly 30 days as promised which is good considering it had to come to Australia).
Dealer code 107 in zone 19.
Dealer - Courtesy Chevrolet, Medford, Oregon.

I've searched but cannot find any information on this dealership except for one in Arizona and another in San Jose. Does anyone have any info on them or know where I could start looking?

Ue, with Roy now gone, I'm just curious. Who signed your report?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on June 11, 2014, 11:32:11 PM
Thanks to NCRS, I received my shipping report today.
Order number - 912 (time to delivery was exactly 30 days as promised which is good considering it had to come to Australia).
Dealer code 107 in zone 19.
Dealer - Courtesy Chevrolet, Medford, Oregon.

I've searched but cannot find any information on this dealership except for one in Arizona and another in San Jose. Does anyone have any info on them or know where I could start looking?

Ue, with Roy now gone, I'm just curious. Who signed your report?

I signed it, mailed it before the changes happened.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 68camaroz28 on June 12, 2014, 12:30:59 AM
DW, I was thinking the same thought. We do have "all the pieces"". Yet, After reading many of the comments on the Corvette site, I can see how dissention can occur.

What I am reffering to is that someone(group) decides on a standard to judge the cars by and everyone scrambles to make their car conform.

Yet, here on CRG, we kind of celebrate the diversity and realize and document the variances we find. It is a learning process. To say all the cars(insert your year and model) are "cookie cutter" exact would erase what all the years of site research have netted. An example: My 396 car has (had) only one screw holding the RH tailpipe hanger on and only 2 clips holding the muncie speedo cable in place. Although the AIM shows and I know both these details are not in conformance with what is known as correct, I am leaving the car "as found" even if it would cause "points" loss, which has no interest to me. On the other hand, with the flame paint job it had, I am glad there are documented examples of stripes, and other details I can reference, here, on the site.
To summarize: it is good to know how it should be when restoring and also good to keep it unique knowing things were not exact on the assembly line. NCRS, while probably the best organization promoting the Vette, has, or can have, inherent flaws in establishing conformity regarding judging standards.
From the cars I've looked at and asked about the norm seems to be two Muncie speedo clips used, not three as the AIM shows! I agree with your statements so no dispute, but hope your not implying the NCRS judging manuals creates cookie cutter cars. To many including me it's what is considered the norm, but that does not mean there are exceptions as there are exceptions to just about any manufacturing process. With any organization we can find something that is not correct or should be improved but a Camaro guideline similar to NCRS would/could assist many hobbyist. If anyone has a chance review a 68/69 Corvette judging manual as it's loaded with information and some of it carries over to our cars as well.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on June 12, 2014, 03:35:23 AM
Thanks to NCRS, I received my shipping report today.
Order number - 912 (time to delivery was exactly 30 days as promised which is good considering it had to come to Australia).
Dealer code 107 in zone 19.
Dealer - Courtesy Chevrolet, Medford, Oregon.

I've searched but cannot find any information on this dealership except for one in Arizona and another in San Jose. Does anyone have any info on them or know where I could start looking?

Ue, with Roy now gone, I'm just curious. Who signed your report?

I signed it, mailed it before the changes happened.

Roy, you indicated there was an error in reading the microfiche for my car, after you'd reported Zone 21, then found out it was actually zone 31.  You told me you would generate a corrected report.   Is there someone involved now, that I should alert to that situation in order to get the corrected report??

Thanks for any info you might provide..

Gary W    69Z28-RS   
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: rsinor on June 12, 2014, 04:24:29 AM
Send an email to the email address we communicated through. I will makecsurecitvgets handled when I return to the office mid to late next week.

Roy
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Ue on June 12, 2014, 08:26:39 AM
I wasn't aware that Roy is gone.
His name (Roy Sinor) and signature is on the report.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Ue on June 12, 2014, 11:14:59 AM
rsinor. Thank you for your work. Best of luck in the future. I'm very grateful that I was fortunate to receive your report. It helps add another piece to the puzzle that is the history of my Camaro. :)

ZLP955. I hadn't seen your message until now. Wow, thanks for the leads. Number plate surround purchased the minute I saw it! Victoria has the USA style plates too and you've just made up my mind if I should get them or not.
You rock. I'll be following up on the dealer info you provided too.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Frosty69 on June 12, 2014, 04:02:46 PM
Roy, words cannot convey how thankful I am for all your efforts and work on this project. You have taken your time to answer our questions here and I appreciated your help updating my report. I wish you nothing but the best wherever the next road takes you.

 

Thanks to NCRS, I received my shipping report today.
Order number - 912 (time to delivery was exactly 30 days as promised which is good considering it had to come to Australia).
Dealer code 107 in zone 19.
Dealer - Courtesy Chevrolet, Medford, Oregon.

I've searched but cannot find any information on this dealership except for one in Arizona and another in San Jose. Does anyone have any info on them or know where I could start looking?


I have found newspaper archives invaluable! Hope this link works, it gives somewhat of a timeline for that dealership.
http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080412/BIZ/804120304/0/SEARCH
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: z28z11 on June 13, 2014, 01:23:30 AM
BTW- my entry is #1491. I'd venture a guess that the NCRS has paid for at least some of the labor that Roy did. Several times over, maybe -

Regards -
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Jon Mello on June 13, 2014, 01:59:19 AM
FYI, Marilyn Heitzman is the name shown now as the Chevy Muscle Docs Historical Document Services Administrator.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: ZLP955 on June 13, 2014, 04:26:55 AM
Ue, no worries and hope it was of some use!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Ue on June 13, 2014, 08:57:40 AM
Thanks Frost69. I hope I'm not hijacking this thread. If so let me know and I'll stop or start a new one.
From the link you gave me, I was able to find a bit more info on the salesman at the original dealer and found his daughter on FaceBook. I've sent her a message and hopefully she responds and can put me in touch with her father. Some old photos or stories about the dealership and that era would be fascinating.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: clm69z28 on June 19, 2014, 06:43:06 PM
I am still looking for information on Shea Chevrolet in Hackensack NJ where my 69 Z28 was sold. Any help/leads would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Paul68RS/Z28 on June 24, 2014, 11:00:47 AM
Guy's, my letter for my 1968 Z28 came back with Dealer Code 0 in zone 9, any suggestions?

Thanks Paul
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69pace on June 24, 2014, 01:00:44 PM
Paul Dealer code zero is a Chevrolet zone office buy. Lots of discussion on zero's over at TC http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=271730 including the zone listings.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Petes L48 on June 24, 2014, 04:27:35 PM
Got a reply back on my order 1096 today, saying no information on VIN 124677L117xxx  :(  Anyone else have a problem with early 67 LOS documents?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: TRLAND on June 24, 2014, 04:57:58 PM
Got a reply back on my order 1096 today, saying no information on VIN 124677L117xxx  :(  Anyone else have a problem with early 67 LOS documents?

Mine isn't that early (12437L139xxx) but did not have a problem.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Paul68RS/Z28 on June 24, 2014, 06:05:04 PM
So I guess if you have a car sent to a Zone office, you are done. No way to find out anything correct??
Dealer 0 Zone 30.

It would appear that we're SOL. :(

Not necessarily guys, contact the current zone office, see who was the zone manager or his assistant try to contact one of them. Maybe you have Mr. Perkin's Camaro, or Mr. Campbell's Camaro, or the Camaro that went to the New York Worlds Fair, if you just quit you won't find out anything for sure.

How would you go about contacting the current Zone office, is this public info?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: TRLAND on June 24, 2014, 07:31:43 PM
Mine isn't that early (12437L139xxx) but did not have a problem.

Sorry for the typo.  It is a '67.  That would be 124377L139xxx
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: kenmerr80 on June 24, 2014, 09:55:14 PM
Boy I'm a little behind on here.   Took a while reading through this thread with high hopes but I see I'm still one of the unlucky ones  on 578154
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: myty on June 27, 2014, 08:42:01 PM
Got mine back today. Zone 35. (N.J.).  Dealer code is 166 which is not available in current documents. any help would be greatly appreciated. I know it came from an individual just north of there near Nyack NY prior to me buying it. 1969 z28. Thanks Gary.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: camaroboy68ss on June 29, 2014, 04:21:11 AM
Got mine today! dealer code 455 in Zone 42. Original name of dealer was Willapa Harbor Motor Co in Raymond Wash. a quick google search comes up dry. any info would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: z28z11 on June 30, 2014, 07:28:47 PM
Got my Pace Car dealer info today - Courtesy Chevrolet, Houston, TX Dlr. 149, Zone 30. When I bought the car in W. TN, the owner stated that the car was a Western car all it's life (shows it), still had Nevada plates on it. Supposedly owned by an AA pilot based out of Dallas.

Now, if we could only get the early info my small collection would be covered -

Regards,
Steve
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: tar6569 on June 30, 2014, 10:02:23 PM
Got mine back today. Zone 35. (N.J.).  Dealer code is 166 which is not available in current documents. any help would be greatly appreciated. I know it came from an individual just north of there near Nyack NY prior to me buying it. 1969 z28. Thanks Gary.
Had 2 close ones in my list.  35-164 was Irwin Chevrolet, Passaic NJ and 35-167 was June Chevrolet in Metuchen NJ.  It's possible that June changed dealer numbers by one.  If not then your dealer was alphabetically between these two.

Warren
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: myty on July 01, 2014, 03:46:12 AM
Thank you very much Warren.  Is your list from the 1969 era?  Maybe I can still find a list with 166 on it. 
 Gary
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: tar6569 on July 01, 2014, 08:33:53 PM
My list has info from all years 63-72 but I usually mark down what year the info is from
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: MyRed67 on July 02, 2014, 04:16:41 AM
Got a reply back on my order 1096 today, saying no information on VIN 124677L117xxx  :(  Anyone else have a problem with early 67 LOS documents?

Mine isn't that early (12437L139xxx) but did not have a problem.
My VIN is124377L113XXX , I had no problems, have had mine since June 3 rd.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: jack on July 06, 2014, 01:28:06 PM
Thanks ED.  I will try this service also.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: jk1969z28 on July 08, 2014, 01:34:30 AM
I've been hoping to finally get this info for years, I guess any info would have been cool, but this was awesome and helps in possibly tracking down more info.  Here is what I got:  Production date was 07/02/1969, dealer code 885 in zone 5, dealer was Van Chevrolet, Shawnee Mission, Kansas.  I figured my car must have been one of the last June cars since my trim tag says 06A but based on my VIN being N6647XX.  Any Kansas folks know this dealer?  My car is a 1969 Cortez Silver Z/28, X33D80 flat hood car, original motor and trans, I've had it since 2006 so I figure I am about half way through the restoration :-)

Jerry K.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Rick68 on July 08, 2014, 02:04:17 AM
Got my info today.Dealer code is 45 in zone 30.The name of the dealership is Tom Benson Chev Co Inc. in San Antonio Texas.Good news is that the dealership is still in business!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: LVN 67 on July 08, 2014, 03:58:41 PM
Jerry K.


When I joined the Camaro Club of KC back in 1990, Van Chevrolet was our sponsor. Somewhere in I believe 92, Van became Superior Chevrolet. Dealership is now  Rick Hendrick Chevrolet. Have several  friends that bought cars from Van in the late 70's and early 80's. I'll check to see what they may have hanging in their garage.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: jk1969z28 on July 08, 2014, 04:48:21 PM
LVN 67  -  YOU ROCK!!!  Thanks for the information and even considering checking with friends is above and beyond!!

Regards,
Jerry K.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Petes L48 on July 09, 2014, 01:25:51 AM
Got a reply back on my order 1096 today, saying no information on VIN 124677L117xxx  :(  Anyone else have a problem with early 67 LOS documents?

Today I received an email from Marilyn Heitzman, stating that an error was made and they do have info on my car!  Not sure how they discovered this, unless the "no hits" were being re-looked, but this news made my day.  A credit had already been issued so I'll place a new order tonight.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 6667ss138 on July 09, 2014, 02:19:48 AM
Congrats Pete, that would sure make my day :)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: myty on July 09, 2014, 02:40:25 AM
A week ago I posted that NCRS sent me my car dealer #166 in zone#35. they had no info on that dealer #. During an extensive on-line search I found on
www.drnew.com and one other site that a "Judge Chevrolet" and sometime after added olds and geo to there name. It was a 60s thru 80s dealer changing to "Beacon Chevy" after that, going out of business around 2000 in Hightstown NJ. This dealership name would fit perfectly before "June Chevrolet" that was dealer #167. I even have a pic. of it before it was recently torn down and rebuilt as part of a strip mall area. Any thoughts on this. Any one from that area? Thanks, Gary.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: myty on July 09, 2014, 02:41:53 AM
Pic for above post!  449 US Highway 130 East Windsor NJ 08520 before it was torn down a few years ago.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: hgger69 on July 09, 2014, 06:27:06 AM
Good news is that the dealership is still in business!
I'm not sure if that is good news, it wasn't for me! :( Everything old was dumped years ago....
They often don't have any possibilities to save old stuff....

Still no one out there that have seen any stuff from dealer Svanda-Meyer Chevrolet in Sparta, Illinois??
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Petes L48 on July 09, 2014, 02:24:28 PM
A week ago I posted that NCRS sent me my car dealer #166 in zone#35. they had no info on that dealer #. During an extensive on-line search I found on
www.drnew.com and one other site that a "Judge Chevrolet" and sometime after added olds and geo to there name. It was a 60s thru 80s dealer changing to "Beacon Chevy" after that, going out of business around 2000 in Hightstown NJ. This dealership name would fit perfectly before "June Chevrolet" that was dealer #167. I even have a pic. of it before it was recently torn down and rebuilt as part of a strip mall area. Any thoughts on this. Any one from that area? Thanks, Gary.

You can submit info on dealers to NCRS, to help fill in missing database information.  See the bottom section of this web page:

http://www.ncrs.org/dealercodes.php

 
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: VINCE Z28 on July 09, 2014, 04:54:38 PM
I noticed some zone numbers covered more then one state... like zone #19  OR, WA, ID,
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 68 RS Z/28 on July 11, 2014, 12:03:47 AM
I just got my letter from NCRS in the mail today and finally know where my 68 327/275 was shipped!  The letter indicates it shipped from Norwood on 15 Nov 67 which lines up with the 11B build date.  It went to Luby Chevrolet in Miami Florida (Dealer Code 328 and Zone 26).  I entered the info on the NCRS site as they had nothing and also did a quick search online for this dealer but came up empty.  Has anyone heard of this dealer?  Are they maybe still around under a different name?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: camaroboy68ss on July 11, 2014, 03:12:35 PM
A week ago I posted that NCRS sent me my car dealer #166 in zone#35. they had no info on that dealer #. During an extensive on-line search I found on
www.drnew.com and one other site that a "Judge Chevrolet" and sometime after added olds and geo to there name. It was a 60s thru 80s dealer changing to "Beacon Chevy" after that, going out of business around 2000 in Hightstown NJ. This dealership name would fit perfectly before "June Chevrolet" that was dealer #167. I even have a pic. of it before it was recently torn down and rebuilt as part of a strip mall area. Any thoughts on this. Any one from that area? Thanks, Gary.

You can submit info on dealers to NCRS, to help fill in missing database information.  See the bottom section of this web page:

http://www.ncrs.org/dealercodes.php

 


Is there a way to contact someone who added to the list? I searched my original dealer and found on the notes that one person has complete invoices for cars from 64-72. But I have no clue who posted it.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: VINCE Z28 on July 11, 2014, 05:44:01 PM
Anyone have cars from Scuncio Chevy, Zone 32 Dealer 613, Scher Chevy Zone 32, Dealer 608 and Konners Chevy Zone 32, Dealer 391. Check out Detroit Horsepower Forum, a guy named Ed had or has lots of paper on Camaros, Chevelles and novas. Old post from 2006.    
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: VINCE Z28 on July 11, 2014, 06:17:54 PM
Camaro boy, I think your talking about the NCRS web page on Chevy Muscle Docs. I think it's the same information you already have.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: camaroboy68ss on July 11, 2014, 06:25:09 PM
Yes it's on the NCRS site but their is a notes section on the far right, usually is where the info is from, but on one of the results on the dealership the car is from states that individual has complete invoices from 64-72. I guess my question then is a factory invoice the shipping data, or more like a window sticker/build sheet?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: HOGDADDY on July 13, 2014, 03:00:08 AM
So I guess if you have a car sent to a Zone office, you are done. No way to find out anything correct??
Dealer 0 Zone 30.

It would appear that we're SOL. :(

Not necessarily guys, contact the current zone office, see who was the zone manager or his assistant try to contact one of them. Maybe you have Mr. Perkin's Camaro, or Mr. Campbell's Camaro, or the Camaro that went to the New York Worlds Fair, if you just quit you won't find out anything for sure.

How would you go about contacting the current Zone office, is this public info?

No luck here after looking into locating the zone office. I don't believe there are zone offices anymore well at least not in Alabama.
Maybe someone else had better luck?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on July 13, 2014, 03:12:38 AM
The current zone office for North Alabama dealers is in Mississippi (Jackson or Meridian?) ..  but back in the late '60's and early '70's it was in Birmingham.  Since then it moved to Atlanta, and then to Dallas area, but now is in MS...

The 'zone office' code seems to represent the distribution center servicing the dealer for spare parts (and perhaps other things)...
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: jk1969z28 on July 15, 2014, 01:33:20 PM
Now I know where my car started its journey and I also have a cool dealer emblem to go with it, all because of the fine folks on this board!!!  Thanks CRG!!

Regards,
Jerry

Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Kelley W King on July 15, 2014, 02:05:22 PM
What is that dealers location? I have been thinking since many people are getting information of maybe a poll with the dealer and location plus car info such as SS, Z28, or base. I would be interested to see which state maybe sold the most muscle cars. PA seems to be popular but maybe not.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: mickeystoys69RSSS on July 15, 2014, 11:34:23 PM
We are missing the following data:
1969 Camaro 9N508855 to 9N587275

I guess this means they do not have mine 9N547348?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: bcmiller on July 16, 2014, 12:36:21 AM
We are missing the following data:
1969 Camaro 9N508855 to 9N587275

I guess this means they do not have mine 9N547348?

Yes, that is correct.  If that is your VIN, they will not have the data for it.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: LVN 67 on July 16, 2014, 06:13:39 PM
Kelly.

  Van Chevrolet was in Merriam, Kansas. That dealership is now Rick Hendrick Chevrolet.

LVN 67  John
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: wisemanz28 on July 17, 2014, 09:33:41 PM
Just received my NCRS shipping docs and does anyone know what dealer is code 22 in zone 45 translate too ?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 1968RSZ28 on July 17, 2014, 10:12:52 PM
Just received my NCRS shipping docs and does anyone know what dealer is code 22 in zone 45 translate too ?

C. Bell Chevrolet in Grand Rapids, MI...

http://www.ncrs.org/dealercodes.php

Paul
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 68 SS 350 on July 18, 2014, 12:24:23 AM
Wow, I received my paper and I couldn't believe what I saw....it stated that the car was delivered to a dealership in Northern California....and I happen to have the exact dealer plate frames in the trunk....so I'm pretty confident this information is correct ! I'm going to venture a guess that they have been with this car since day 1......the build date and all the other info is spot on.  Thanks so much for this !
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: wisemanz28 on July 18, 2014, 08:51:20 PM
Thanks so much Paul, I thought the car came from the Milwaukee Wisconsin area. Now I'll look for info in Grand Rapids, Mi.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 70L34 on July 19, 2014, 03:22:14 PM
I think I have a c bell emblem if you are interested.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: jk1969z28 on July 19, 2014, 05:20:22 PM
Got another awesome piece of memorabilia from Van Chevrolet!! Thanks to LVN 67 I can not thank you enough!!!

Regards,
Jerry K.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on July 19, 2014, 05:52:44 PM
what does KC-1 stand for? kansas city # 1?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: jk1969z28 on July 19, 2014, 08:07:37 PM
Yes, dealership was not far from Kansas City, to the southwest and not far from the Missouri border, so I figure that I'd have two states to check to find any leads for this car.  Anyone know of an old friend, neighbor or relative in the Kansas City area that bought a Cortez Silver Z/28 in the summer to fall of 1969 at Van Chevrolet drop me a line.  A long shot I'm sure but you never know, never thought I would have even this much information until recently.

Regards,
Jerry K.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Petes L48 on July 26, 2014, 12:24:55 AM
Got a reply back on my order 1096 today, saying no information on VIN 124677L117xxx  :(  Anyone else have a problem with early 67 LOS documents?

Today I received an email from Marilyn Heitzman, stating that an error was made and they do have info on my car!  Not sure how they discovered this, unless the "no hits" were being re-looked, but this news made my day.  A credit had already been issued so I'll place a new order tonight.

Today I got my report, about 2 1/2 weeks after reapplying.  I bought the car near Atlanta in 1985, no docs and original L48 gone.  I'll probably forego the K19 setup on my date correct engine and just go with K24.  The NCRS report was:

Production Date 11/15/66 (same date I guess-timated awhile back)
Dealer Code 241, Zone 6
John Geer Chevrolet
Sacramento, CA

Looks like in 1982 they were d/b/a Parkwood Chevrolet.  Long trip from CA to GA.  I'll have to start digging!
 
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69glacierblue on July 26, 2014, 03:31:29 AM
I've been hoping to finally get this info for years, I guess any info would have been cool, but this was awesome and helps in possibly tracking down more info.  Here is what I got:  Production date was 07/02/1969, dealer code 885 in zone 5, dealer was Van Chevrolet, Shawnee Mission, Kansas.  I figured my car must have been one of the last June cars since my trim tag says 06A but based on my VIN being N6647XX.  Any Kansas folks know this dealer?  My car is a 1969 Cortez Silver Z/28, X33D80 flat hood car, original motor and trans, I've had it since 2006 so I figure I am about half way through the restoration :-)

Jerry K.

Interesting...my car shows same production date and is also 06A (as were all June '69 Norwood Camaros). My VIN N6652XX.  My Dealer was Yarnall-Todd in Chicago area.
SS 350 Vert with all original drive train, bought it in 2006.  Looks like these two were fairly close on the production line.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: jk1969z28 on July 27, 2014, 07:31:26 PM
Dennis you got me by 500 :-)  Here is a car listed on ebay and his VIN is close to us, funny how the trim tags work out though my VIN is after his but his trim tag is about 9000 higher then mine.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/301250144385?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on July 27, 2014, 07:46:39 PM
So what which car would have made it out the door first? Does your earlier trim tag indicate your car just left the fisher plant before his, but once it was at GM, his got done first? What is the build week of his car vs. yours?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: JohnZ on July 29, 2014, 03:51:03 PM
So what which car would have made it out the door first? Does your earlier trim tag indicate your car just left the fisher plant before his, but once it was at GM, his got done first? What is the build week of his car vs. yours?

The body number was assigned when the plant accepted the order for production, not when the body was built, so there could be a relatively short time span or a much longer span, depending on material availability, sales priorities, etc. Once the Fisher body was received at the Chevrolet Body Bank and the VIN was assigned, it would be unusual for the body release to the Chevrolet assembly system to be delayed more than a few hours.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: JohnZ on July 29, 2014, 03:52:08 PM

So what which car would have made it out the door first? Does your earlier trim tag indicate your car just left the fisher plant before his, but once it was at GM, his got done first? What is the build week of his car vs. yours?

The 1969 body number was assigned when the plant accepted the order for production, not when the body was built, so there could be a relatively short time span or a much longer span, depending on material availability, sales priorities, etc. Once the Fisher body was received at the Chevrolet Body Bank and the VIN was assigned, it would be unusual for the body release to the Chevrolet assembly system to be delayed more than a few hours.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on July 29, 2014, 04:14:59 PM
thanks for the explanation.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: jdv69z on July 29, 2014, 07:59:21 PM

So what which car would have made it out the door first? Does your earlier trim tag indicate your car just left the fisher plant before his, but once it was at GM, his got done first? What is the build week of his car vs. yours?

The 1969 body number was assigned when the plant accepted the order for production, not when the body was built, so there could be a relatively short time span or a much longer span, depending on material availability, sales priorities, etc. Once the Fisher body was received at the Chevrolet Body Bank and the VIN was assigned, it would be unusual for the body release to the Chevrolet assembly system to be delayed more than a few hours.


So was there planning coordination between Fisher and Chevrolet so that Fisher did not release orders to the system which might have material availability issues on the Chevrolet side? There must have been, or some type of central planning?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Mark on July 29, 2014, 10:02:47 PM
Absolutely, GM determined when a particular car was to be built based on their schedules, and their part availablilities and Fisher built it.  There wasn't really much on the fisher side of the plant that could result in a material shortage that wouldn't alos affect the GM side.  Maybe things like convertible and vinyl tops in certain colors, some interior peices, etc.  Most of fishers parts were sheetmetal stampings that were not specific to a certain vehicle, like a 302 engine, or an M22 transmission. I'm sure there were some things on the Fisher side that could delay a build, but most of them was probably on GMs side.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: vtfb68 on July 30, 2014, 12:52:10 AM
Mark,
 My 05C has a birth date of 5/6/68, seems odd to me. Any thoughts?
  Thank's
    Victor
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Mark on July 30, 2014, 08:23:12 PM
Is your VIN in the 9N645XXX range (+/- 1000), or higher than that?  If its in the mid 640's and the tag is original, then it was scheduled to be built during the third week of May but was pulled forward for some reason.  If its VIN is significantly higher than the 9N645xxx range then your birth date is wrong, and is probably more inline with the tag date.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: vtfb68 on July 30, 2014, 09:14:57 PM
Mark,
 Thank you for the reply, It's a 1968 LA built car, 340398.
 Thanks again,
    Victor
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Mark on July 31, 2014, 02:12:59 AM
April and May of 68 LA cars have some unique trim tag build dates, there are several very long build weeks and some missing weeks around this time.  Must have been a new guy on the tag machine.   

Is this an "Ixxx" work order number car? 

First LA VIN for calendar month of May is supposed to be 338365 and LA was building about 3500 Camaros a month according to GMs records but I think those records are off a bit.  But an 05C dated tag on your vin is consistant with vin numbers close to yours.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: jdv69z on July 31, 2014, 01:31:12 PM
Absolutely, GM determined when a particular car was to be built based on their schedules, and their part availablilities and Fisher built it.  There wasn't really much on the fisher side of the plant that could result in a material shortage that wouldn't alos affect the GM side.  Maybe things like convertible and vinyl tops in certain colors, some interior peices, etc.  Most of fishers parts were sheetmetal stampings that were not specific to a certain vehicle, like a 302 engine, or an M22 transmission. I'm sure there were some things on the Fisher side that could delay a build, but most of them was probably on GMs side.

So was Fisher sort of like a supplier to Chevrolet in that Fisher's production was to produce bodies for orders placed by Chevrolet?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: JohnZ on July 31, 2014, 02:20:44 PM
Absolutely, GM determined when a particular car was to be built based on their schedules, and their part availablilities and Fisher built it.  There wasn't really much on the fisher side of the plant that could result in a material shortage that wouldn't alos affect the GM side.  Maybe things like convertible and vinyl tops in certain colors, some interior peices, etc.  Most of fishers parts were sheetmetal stampings that were not specific to a certain vehicle, like a 302 engine, or an M22 transmission. I'm sure there were some things on the Fisher side that could delay a build, but most of them was probably on GMs side.

So was Fisher sort of like a supplier to Chevrolet in that Fisher's production was to produce bodies for orders placed by Chevrolet?

Yes. Retail customers didn't order BODIES, they ordered CARS. Chevrolet ordered the body needed to fill a dealer order from Fisher Body, completed the Trim-Chassis-Final assembly when they got the body, and shipped the car to the dealer. This business model confused people for 65 years, and Fisher Body Division was finally eliminated as a separate operation in GM's 1985 re-organization.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Mark on July 31, 2014, 04:47:35 PM
Way back in the dawn of automobile manufacturing (and probably before) Fisher Coach was its own company building bodies of cars, wagons, etc for other companies that build the chassis and running gears, similar to Pinifarina in Europe, and half a dozen coach builders here in the US.  Back in the 20's and 30's you could have a custom body contructed to be put on most any higher end chassis.  Fisher plants were co located with the GM assembly plants but maintained a mostly separate organization.  They were esentially subcontractors to GM assembling "Body Tubs" for GM to finish assembling into completed cars.  GM paid Fisher for each Body Tub they assembled.  

Before 1926 fisher was building bodies for just about anyone in Detroit that was building cars. Between 1916 and 1926 they had a capcity of 370000 bodies a year and they built for  Abbot, Buick, Cadillac, Chalmers, Chandler, Chevrolet, Churchfield, Elmore, EMF, Ford, Herreshoff, Hudson, Krit, Oldsmobile, Packard, Regal, and Studebaker.

Back in 1926  Fisher Body was bought out by GM (they already owned 60% of Fishers Shares) and they became a separate Division within GM.  GM complained that Fisher built their assembly plant too far away from GMs plants and were therby holding their production up, so they bought them and moved their plants next to GM assembly plants to cut down on delays.  Fisher was paid on cost plus basis and allegedly had some inefficient processes that were increasing the prices of the bodies that GM had to pay.  So GM felt it was in their best interest to buy Fisher body up, locate the assembly plants near theirs, and change their processes to be more efficient.  Up until about the mid 70's they remained a separate division within GM but at that point they were completely absorbed and just became part of GM.  Up until that time they maintained their own separate identity, organization and personel.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: vtfb68 on July 31, 2014, 05:18:35 PM
Mark,
 I had never heard that there was a trim tag snafu in April and May of 68 at the LA plant (I have heard about the 1969 NOR 6A tags). Could you expand, if possable about the 68  LA snafu?
  I will check the body # when I get home.
     Victor
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: vtfb68 on July 31, 2014, 11:13:24 PM
  Mark,
 My scheduling # is J 543, and the assembly plant # is 39094.
    Victor
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: KERR on August 08, 2014, 08:33:58 PM
i got mine today,

for you number guys,   i still haven't figured out how you all come up with all this info by looking at number,  i guess your related to rain man   
05/14/1969   vin 9N643537
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on August 09, 2014, 01:26:24 AM
i got mine today,
for you number guys,   i still haven't figured out how you all come up with all this info by looking at number,  i guess your related to rain man   
05/14/1969   vin 9N643537

OK..  here's the way you figure production date from VIN.    Your Norwood Camaro was seq no 643537.   that falls during May 1969 production based on the CRG information here..
http://camaros.org/geninfo.shtml#HowMany

Apr-69    9N637106  13519     The Last VIN produced in April was 9N637106; there were 13,519 Camaro produced that month
May-69   9N650323  13217     The last VIN produced in May was 650323; there were 13,217 Camaros produced that month in Norwood.

your number, 643537 was the 6431st Camaro that month.    ie.   6431 of 13,217 during May.   There was 21 work days that month, so Norwood produced an avg of 629 Camaros per day.   13217/629=10.22, so yours was likely produced on the 11th work day, which was the 15th of May.    The calculation was only a bit over 10 (10.22), so it's possible that it was produced on the 14th (which is what your report showed you).   The calculation will generally get you within a day or so.. :)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on August 09, 2014, 06:28:26 AM
"Thank you Mr. Wizard."
Gary has a good handle on how to calculate the day your car was produced. (He calculated mine almost to the day!)

Maybe we should call Gary the N.G.R.S.... :D
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on August 09, 2014, 01:54:54 PM
*L*  ... you can add that to all the other thing I've been called..  :)

You can use the same approach to calculate approximate build date for other cars you own, as long as you know the monthly production numbers for the plant.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: flyingskibiker on August 10, 2014, 02:04:23 AM
My results were: purchased 11/21/67 at dealer code 258 in zone 31 at Hood Motor Co. Inc. in Fort Walton, FL.  The NCRS website has an address of Shell and Main Street.  They say the Preston Hood Chevrolet is the same business and is still in business.  I contacted them via their website.  They said that they don't have any old records...  BUMMER!

Anyway, I don't have a trim tag.  It wasn't there when I bought the car in '83.  My calculations were that it is an 11C car.  Seems about right...
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: JohnZ on August 11, 2014, 03:40:22 PM


your number, 643537 was the 6431st Camaro that month.    ie.   6431 of 13,217 during May.   There was 21 work days that month, so Norwood produced an avg of 629 Camaros per day.   

There are some holes/errors in those Chevrolet-provided numbers, as the line speed never changed - Norwood built 912 per day, every day, even if it took overtime to do so.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on August 11, 2014, 04:09:21 PM
John, 

I've read where you said that before, and I'm not doubting you..  I'm just using the data (by month) that CRG provides us.

For the 912/day to be true... the month end totals would have to be off by *several weeks of production* if true.... and there would have had to be a LONG shut-down time that summer of '69 before they resumed production...??    I recall reading in some car mags back in 69, that salaried employees ran production for awhile.. during an 'hourly' hold out or ??  and if so, their production rate would have surely been less...    Can you shed any light on that?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: KERR on August 12, 2014, 01:24:11 PM
awesome! 
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Kelley W King on August 12, 2014, 02:40:07 PM
I did the math on my 08E 69 by the CRG site and it worked out to the 25th. My NCRS papers say the 28th. Pretty close I think.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: JohnZ on August 12, 2014, 04:09:40 PM
John, 

I've read where you said that before, and I'm not doubting you..  I'm just using the data (by month) that CRG provides us.

For the 912/day to be true... the month end totals would have to be off by *several weeks of production* if true.... and there would have had to be a LONG shut-down time that summer of '69 before they resumed production...??    I recall reading in some car mags back in 69, that salaried employees ran production for awhile.. during an 'hourly' hold out or ??  and if so, their production rate would have surely been less...    Can you shed any light on that?

A lot of those magazine articles were "fairy tales", written by folks who had no clue about how manufacturing plants operate; salaried employees didn't man the line and build cars. How many cars do you suppose 100 salaried guys could build, replacing 4,000 hourly assemblers spread across 16 miles of conveyors? None - it's a fairy tale.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Mark on August 12, 2014, 10:24:43 PM
Don't forget starting April 19th Norwood was building Firebirds as well as Camaros, that probably where the other 250 cars per day went.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on August 13, 2014, 02:49:55 AM
Don't forget starting April 19th Norwood was building Firebirds as well as Camaros, that probably where the other 250 cars per day went.

Mark,  if the 912/day included Firebirds, then that would explain the qty discrepancy; that thought occurred to me after John's previous post, but I had no Firebird information.

Does anyone have any idea how Norwood coordinated production of Camaros and Firebirds simultaneously?  ie..  intermixed..  or run firebirds for a day or more then Camaros??  or?   If we have no factual information for how that was done, then the uniform distribution of Camaro builds across the production days of the month would still provide the best estimation for a specific production date.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: JohnZ on August 13, 2014, 11:10:41 PM

Does anyone have any idea how Norwood coordinated production of Camaros and Firebirds simultaneously?  ie..  intermixed..  or run firebirds for a day or more then Camaros?? 

They ran Camaro and Firebird intermixed, at a constant ratio. If you kept changing the ratio, every time you did that you'd have to re-balance labor operations and re-assign/re-train every worker in the plant. The ratio was developed based on volume and demand projections, and hardly ever changed.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on August 14, 2014, 02:32:20 AM
Thanks John... 
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Bryan302 on August 14, 2014, 04:19:42 AM
I will have to say that the production figures that Gary has been using from the CRG calculations have to be pretty close to correct.  Gary figured the production of my 69 05A Z/28 while we were sitting in the motel room at Frederick this year.  Gary came up with May 7th (127th day), using the 629 car a day figure.  I knew that this figure was pretty close as I had an agent do the dealer and production search back in the 90's, and it came back as shipped May 8th.  I just got my NCRS search back and it said the production date was May 7th!!, and was sent to C. D. King Chevrolet.  It appears this method is pretty close, as it has been double checked twice.  KERR's car was done using the same method.

Bryan
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on August 14, 2014, 05:01:37 AM
So did you buy Gary a beer for that calculation?   :D
Gary doesn't provide a letter, but his services are affordable... :D
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: zdld17 on September 09, 2014, 03:32:35 PM
Hello All, I was just reading some posting on the Team Camaro site about 1 gen documents available ChevyMuscleCars.    I also notice a note: 1969 Camaro 9N508855 to 9N587275 missing data.  
Does anyone know if this problem has been resolved?   I purchased my car new and I never kept any documents in 1969.   I know my selling dealer but would like any other data available.  
Can this still be searched?    
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Mike S on September 09, 2014, 04:04:35 PM
 All you will get for your money is an official looking document stating the car's born on date and the dealer and zone number it was shipped to. Nothing else is included.
No model info or anything along those line of identification.
  If you know the dealers name already then you will have the info you need. If the dealer is still in business and has the paperwork then you are way ahead most of us.
To my knowledge there is still a gap for '69 models.

Mike
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on September 09, 2014, 04:18:40 PM
Knowing the official production date along with a document that states the original dealer is a plus for any Camaro owner I would think.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on September 09, 2014, 08:56:43 PM
Knowing the official production date along with a document that states the original dealer is a plus for any Camaro owner I would think.

And the official production date is lots more realistic in figuring validity of production dates on the component parts than using the 'planned/projected production week'...    e.g.  '06A'   this is only the projected period they expect car to be produced at time or order... and there can be differences, from several days to significant' delays.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: zdld17 on September 09, 2014, 09:53:50 PM
Thanks Guys,  Like Bullit said, any information may be worth the $$.   I worked at my home town dealership, I was even called during the holidays to accept a load of cars during Thanksgiving  holidays.  WoW, when I saw the green Z, I knew who ordered that.   My sales manager and I sat down and ordered the car so I knew what it had.
My old dealership has closed , being a small town dealer , all local business went to the next larger city 20 miles away.  

I think any information would be worth it to me, so I can pass on to my son and grandson.     I know the dealer and we were in the Houston zone.   The car is a non X code Z car, 12A .  
But my question was , on this site there was a note : "1969 Camaro 9N508855 to 9N587275 data missing ", I am 9N554389 , so if someone can tell me that the data exists,  I will order.  

Thanks again,  I don't normally log into this site as I hang out at TC, but I may come back over just because I now have all the time in the world.   I retired after 35 years in the oil patch.  

Well Kurt S  just answered my question, data for those vin's  above are still missing.  So end of road.   
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: ko-lek-tor on September 09, 2014, 09:59:49 PM
"but I may come back over just because I now have all the time in the world.   I retired after 35 years in the oil patch.  "

Please do (come back) and congrats on your recent retirement.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on September 09, 2014, 10:20:22 PM
So the car you have now, is the one you ordered originally? 

Welcome back.. 8)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: zdld17 on September 09, 2014, 10:30:48 PM
Yes,  ordered the car, dated my wife, married my wife, had two kids (not in it or result of) .  It was the only car we had very early on.  My wife drove this car while she was carrying my son.  
So in very south Texas, near the border, near south padre island, most everyone my age , knows this car.   This was a  base Z, no console, gauges etc but I added the cowl hood later.  
 While wife was carrying son, I put a Frigaking underdash in the car , to make her trips easier.  I was not until about 15 years ago, I went with a Vintage unit.  

I just wish I would have saved receipts and stuff.   All I could think of , was to look for a mustang to smoke.   I still have my over counter green page Special Equiptment parts book.  I was a counter man, part manager, service manager/writer/ warranty clerk for long while before going to Amoco.   Time flies when you are having fun.  
I do have my owners manual and my first Delco R-59 warranty punch card. It was red.  
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on September 10, 2014, 03:38:52 AM
Thanks Guys,  Like Bullit said, any information may be worth the $$.   I worked at my home town dealership, I was even called during the holidays to accept a load of cars during Thanksgiving  holidays.  WoW, when I saw the green Z, I knew who ordered that.   My sales manager and I sat down and ordered the car so I knew what it had.
My old dealership has closed , being a small town dealer , all local business went to the next larger city 20 miles away.   

I think any information would be worth it to me, so I can pass on to my son and grandson.     I know the dealer and we were in the Houston zone.   The car is a non X code Z car, 12A .   
But my question was , on this site there was a note : "1969 Camaro 9N508855 to 9N587275 data missing ", I am 9N554389 , so if someone can tell me that the data exists,  I will order.   

Thanks again,  I don't normally log into this site as I hang out at TC, but I may come back over just because I now have all the time in the world.   I retired after 35 years in the oil patch. 

Well Kurt S  just answered my question, data for those vin's  above are still missing.  So end of road.   


if you know the dealer who delivered it, the only other piece of information you'd get would be production date, and that can be figured very closely (with 1 day or so) using the VIN number
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: twol78s on February 05, 2015, 02:17:48 AM
I just got my NCRS Shipping Data Report for my '67 SS/RS  LOS 05C W 2LGR 3BDL 4FK Camaro.
I had done DMV searches years ago before the privacy rules went into place, and the Oregon DMV had records of registration in Reno, NV, but it didn't specify details.
Now that this information is available through NCRS, the mystery of where it was originally delivered is known.
The UOIT shows a date of 05-17-67 (Wednesday of Week 3)
The NCRS document shows an official production date of 05-22-67 (Monday of Week 4)
The car was delivered to Dealer 257 in Zone 6 -- Herb Hallman Chevrolet, Inc., which is now Champion Chevrolet.

Good stuff, this.

-Rick
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: firstgenaddict on February 07, 2015, 11:40:28 PM
zdld17
Being a first week december Z28 did it have Chambered pipes or crossflow muffler?
There is a recall letter that uses the date Dec 4th as the end day for Chambered.
Just wondering how yours was equipped being in the transition week.

James
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 70L34 on April 07, 2015, 01:41:49 AM
Hey folks,

Just received the NCRS docs for my 1968 Z. I had heard that the car was always in the SE Michigan / NW Ohio area. NCRS confirmed it was sold at dealer 201, zone 44, but that the dealer name was unavailable. Does anyone know this dealer?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 1968RSZ28 on April 07, 2015, 06:47:36 AM
Hey folks,

Just received the NCRS docs for my 1968 Z. I had heard that the car was always in the SE Michigan / NW Ohio area. NCRS confirmed it was sold at dealer 201, zone 44, but that the dealer name was unavailable. Does anyone know this dealer?

Try contacting Hamilton Chevrolet (Dealer 198 in zone 44) in Warren, MI.  They have been in business since 1956.  Someone at Hamilton might remember another Chevrolet dealer in the area from back in the day.

http://www.hamiltonchevy.com/

Paul   
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on April 07, 2015, 01:13:56 PM
Suggestion:   

Find and talk to the oldest/longest term employee in the Parts Department.   THey see the zone number changes directly, and Parts Dept guys seem to stay on thru ownership changes, etc.. whereas ownership and sales people turnover regularly...

The Zone Number changes whenever Chevrolet changes their Parts Warehouse locations.  The dealership number changes when the dealership ownership changes.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 70L34 on April 07, 2015, 01:47:43 PM
Great advice. I occasionally work at the Tech Center just down the street, so I will stop by this week and ask around. Thank you!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Leon in Mn. on April 23, 2015, 09:37:48 PM
I got my NRCS "official production date" and the name of the dealer my 67 RS/SS 03C was originally delivered to, in the mail today.  I was kind of excited waiting for it to come the last few days. It didn't take long at all.   Here are the results.  I knew the start of production was the third week of March.  The production date stated 3-22-67.  The original dealer it was delivered to was Connell Chevrolet in Costa Mesa, California.  Dealer code was 125 in zone 20.  Now I can look for more info on the car.  Does anyone remember this dealer?  Any help would be appreciated.  Now to check out those dealer zones etc. and what happened to the dealer.:)
Leon in Mn.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: My68SS on April 27, 2015, 12:39:24 PM
Just got mine from ncrs for my 12c 68 which was a xco to Australia.
Build date is quoted as 12/15/67. Delivery dealer code 2 zone 21, name of dealer - GM export, unknown location.

Data for code 2 zone 21 at ncrs from someone else is as follows

Dealer Zone: 21
Dealer Number: 2
Address: Central Office
City: Dearborn
State: Michigan
Zipcode: 
Source Year: 1967
Active: Still in Business
Notes: November 1966 build date
Exported to Belgium

The dealer name for this entry is GM Direct.

Was GM export and GM direct the same thing? at Central Office in Dearborn MI?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: KurtS on May 05, 2015, 05:28:46 AM
I know of another 21 002 car - it was an export.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: My68SS on May 06, 2015, 04:10:47 PM
Kurt, do you know what country?
I'm still researching this zone and dealer and I'm now not sure if it represents a point of US delivery [GM export], or that of the receiving country.

This site features a corvette that was export to Australia
https://www.proteamcorvette.com/PersonalReserve.html
It's the 30th entry from the top titled "1963 Corvette Split Window Coupe RPO-Z06 Fuelie"

The post talks about zone 21 towards the bottom of the post, but the post is a bit confusing to read, as it [seemingly] quotes 2 different delivery's and build dates   ???  though it does tend to suggest, from the way it's written, that zone 21 code 2 was in fact Australia.
The "click here" link takes you to this post https://www.proteamcorvette.com/NSN-TRI-Info.html were again the 'Fact 8' line quotes "exported to Australia Ė dealer code 2 in zone 21 per SDR" which again suggests that 2/21 was Australia.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: KurtS on May 06, 2015, 08:52:00 PM
It just means GM export. It doesn't not indicate the destination.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: My68SS on May 08, 2015, 06:50:45 PM
Cheers Kurt, that's what I originally understood.
So where was 'GM export' located? Could Dearborn MI be accurate, as per Belgium export details above?
Or perhaps there was no address as such, just the car was flagged as an export.
Perhaps the 'address' was just a different corner of the parking lot  :D
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: KurtS on May 12, 2015, 06:04:47 AM
http://www.camaros.org/foreign.shtml#SUP
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: My68SS on May 12, 2015, 03:07:33 PM
Hi Kurt, yes I had read that but it only tells me how some cars managed to escape the country  :)

The statement 'There were no 67-69 Camaros exported by GM to Australia (due to the right-hand drive requirements)' is not entirely correct.
At the time, there were two exceptions to the RHD only rule in Australia, one was Canberra in the ACT [Australian Capital Territory]
Due to foreign embassies and diplomats residing there, LHD vehicles could be registered in the ACT so long as they displayed in 6" high letters 'caution - left hand drive' on the rear screen.
The other exception was in the Northern Territory who also allowed LHD with the same caution on the rear glass.

Also, the xco tag that I found in my car seems to make it an exception to the 'no 67-69 Camaros exported to Australia'
The trim tag is the magic mirror type.
The serial number on the xco tag is the same as the cars vin.

(http://members.iinet.net.au/~dream/images/crg/trimtagxco/trimtag.jpg)

(http://members.iinet.net.au/~dream/images/crg/trimtagxco/xcotag_tn.jpg)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: KurtS on May 26, 2015, 04:13:17 AM
Cool. I hadn't seen either of those pics before.
I hadn't heard of either exception, but I know importers would convert them to RHD. But yours is evidence that GM imported them too.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: My68SS on May 26, 2015, 01:20:11 PM
Hi Kurt,
There's possibly two 67's that may have been imported by GM-H, and possibly left the US as xco's as per the last paragraph in this article that my nephew found.
He has some evidence that the cars were imported by GM-H to test public reaction to the interior design of the car and if favourable, to adopt elements of the design for the new HK Holden.
It must have been favourable, as the HK HT HG series of Holden's had a sloping dash much like the 1st gen Camaro's.

Survivor Car Australia is doing further research into xco 1st gen Camaro's that came to Australia.

(http://members.iinet.net.au/~dream/images/crg/67imports.jpg)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: KurtS on May 26, 2015, 04:59:11 PM
Imported for GM use makes sense. Imported to sell - not likely.
Sometimes those imports had to be returned/exported or crushed - depends on the import rules/agreement.
We had several European vehicles like that - they were crushed.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: My68SS on May 26, 2015, 06:16:21 PM
Imported for GM use makes sense. Imported to sell - not likely.
Agreed.
I would say that there is no way that anyone in Australia, diplomat or otherwise, could possibly get a 1st gen Camaro into Australia via GM Sydney, that was exported from the US as an xco. That surely would only happen under a internal GM-H order, for GM-H purposes only.

So, the plot thickens considerably around my car. My desire to trace it's history has risen exponentially!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: My68SS on June 04, 2015, 03:27:03 PM
In order to not pollute this thread any further with details that are now somewhat off topic, I have continued the discussion in a new thread in the Foreign Camaro's board.
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=13447.0
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on September 16, 2015, 07:48:13 PM
Thats intersting. According to the 1969 calendar and NCRS mine was built (finished?) 8/19 which was a Tuesday and the tag reads 08C. Your car was built the same week according to the calendar, on 8/21 a Thursday, but then dated 08D?

Maybe my car was waiting on parts?
Just a heads up... I was a day off. Mine was final assembled Friday 8/22 (I always liked Fridays!). I broke down and got the NCRS report. My body number is 106672.

Thought I would transport this over here Hawk:

So I wonder when yours was stamped 08D if your cars was projected to be finished the following week?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: HawkX66 on September 16, 2015, 10:33:42 PM
Thats intersting. According to the 1969 calendar and NCRS mine was built (finished?) 8/19 which was a Tuesday and the tag reads 08C. Your car was built the same week according to the calendar, on 8/21 a Thursday, but then dated 08D?

Maybe my car was waiting on parts?
Just a heads up... I was a day off. Mine was final assembled Friday 8/22 (I always liked Fridays!). I broke down and got the NCRS report. My body number is 106672.

Thought I would transport this over here Hawk:

So I wonder when yours was stamped 08D if your cars was projected to be finished the following week?
Nice to have the power lol... Good idea moving it. So mine was sold at Gordon Butler Chevy in Lowell, MA. Crazy story behind the dealership. Murder and mayhem and a little mafia to boot. Butler lost the franchise in 1974 after a GM warranty investigator/auditor was murdered by one of the employees who had murdered and dismembered his wife. A prostitute was murdered too. They were hitting Chevy for a motor charge when they replaced a head gasket etc. Then they'd sell the parts.
I guess that puts the kabosh on my hope of contacting the dealer for original owner info...
I don't have a clue when they would have stamped my trim tag, but I guess I'm not super surprised mine might be stamped in anticipation for the next week considering it's a Friday built car. She's an original tag for sure, so I don't think there's anything there. This is what it looked like after I massaged the paint off the tag with some thinner.

(http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q573/SgtHawkUSMC/69%20Camaro%20SS396%20L34/69%20VIN%20Pics/IMG_20150623_213718.jpg) (http://s1164.photobucket.com/user/SgtHawkUSMC/media/69%20Camaro%20SS396%20L34/69%20VIN%20Pics/IMG_20150623_213718.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on September 17, 2015, 03:43:33 PM
Maybe John Z or someone can jump in here and explain the dating vs. production day?

I hope this isn't to sensitive to discuss... :)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: JackalsZ on October 28, 2015, 08:18:37 PM
I got my report ...
My 1968 Z/28, British Green, Black Houndstooth, Rally Sport with 4.10 rear is tagged 04B and was delivered to Jim Fuller Chevrolet in Corning, New York. Does anyone have any information about them? I did a Google search and only found they are closed and sponsored soap box derbies back in the day. They were on Main street in 1968, and the building is still intact with state worker vehicles stored there.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BillOhio on February 02, 2016, 05:47:54 PM
I broke down and ordered mine already knowing the dealer. it was sold at Lemke Chevrolet in Hubbard Ohio but the report said Don Lerch in Doylestown Ohio. Anyone up that way heard of Lerch?  The other thing my tag is 03D, which was march 24-28. car was shipped the 26. they must have rushed it thru
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: dale_z28 on February 03, 2016, 01:04:42 PM
If someone would put a bug in my wife's ear, that report would be a cool birthday present, since mines coming up....
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: cncorwin on May 27, 2016, 01:15:56 PM
I got the NCRS info and it started me on a trail I am really enjoying.  Found out my numbers matching  '68 RS 327 was shipped to S&R Chevrolet in Mason City, Iowa.  Now I am having a reproduction window sticker made with accurate options and pricing.  The dealer is out of business but I have some of their news ads located on Newspapers.com.  All very fun!  By the way, my hat's off to those of you who created and maintain this site.  It's fantastic!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on May 27, 2016, 03:45:06 PM
Welcome to the site! Glad you are digging up info for your dealer.
Please start a new thread in the General section, and tell us about your car.
And most important add pics! :D
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: LVN 67 on June 27, 2016, 02:20:21 AM
I just have a quick question. I recently sent off for dealer info on my friends 69. I got a reply back that the information was not available. Its an early build,  9N501365. Would it be prudent to submit another request later on as more information becomes available? 
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on June 27, 2016, 05:17:24 AM
If you are refereeing to the NCRS dealer doc, you could inquire in the future. I would think if they are found it will get posted here and team camaro, though. I hope more information does come forward.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: LVN 67 on June 27, 2016, 11:13:04 AM
Thanks, I too hope more info is uncovered.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: CDB on February 03, 2017, 08:40:55 PM
Thanks. Good information to have and fast service.

If anyone reading this has information on "Success Motor Company" from  Tahlequah, Oklahoma, please message me. All I have been able to find on them is that their dealership location now belongs to a state university, the registered agents are now deceased, and have heard rumors that they became a different dealership in the area.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on February 03, 2017, 08:54:14 PM
One suggestion would be to put "success motor company" into your saved searches for ebay. eBay will then automatically email you if someone lists an item with that in the title. You could then inquire with the seller, get some info, and possibly purchase some dealer items for your car. Good luck
Title: Success Motors
Post by: fsc66 on February 27, 2017, 04:06:38 PM
Contact this company and see if there's any relationships here:
http://www.successmotorstulsa.com/(aqcjvy55r3mo3i551xzhfk45)/mindex.aspx?UserName=oksuccessmotors


https://casetext.com/case/farmer-v-state-123

http://law.justia.com/cases/oklahoma/supreme-court/1927/50245.html

Paul



Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: feastersss on March 27, 2017, 05:57:02 PM
I have the title from 1977 for my '68, when my father in law bought it from his brother which inturn bought it in1974, but I can't find anything before that time.  I'm hoping maybe spending the $50 will help me out!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on March 27, 2017, 06:36:33 PM
The report will list the dealer if known. If not, it will list the dealer code and zone, and you can start tracking down from there.
Good luck and welcome to the CRG! :)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: cericksen on April 26, 2017, 05:31:21 AM
Just ordered mine! Order # 6671.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: BULLITT65 on April 26, 2017, 06:08:48 AM
Welcome to the CRG!
When you have time, start a post and tell us about your car, (pics are a huge bonus for us)

thanks
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: cericksen on May 15, 2017, 05:59:05 PM
Just received my report! I will compile some pictures for next post, but here's the information the report gave me.

Official Production Date: 3/6/1969
Dealer Code 262
Zone 6

Time to do some homework!
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: VINCE Z28 on May 15, 2017, 07:54:05 PM
Zone # 6 is California and Nevada, no dealer information.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: cericksen on May 15, 2017, 10:23:42 PM
Thanks Vince. Yes, it's California. Hopefully I can find some information on the dealer now.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Dave Caine on July 10, 2017, 09:24:40 PM
Hello all,
Thanks to CRG, I clicked the link on Monday and got an envelope in the mail on Friday (which was a pleasant surprise considering the email confirmation that told me it would be 30 days).

The dealer my car was sold new at was Kovich Chevrolet in Tamaqua PA. Apparently, at some point it  became Hosak Pontiac and the address now shows a construction company but when I google map it, I see nothing remotely looking like any hint of a dealership of any sort ever being near there.

Is there any chance anyone here has ever heard of that place &/or may know anything about it?
I'm guessing its a dead end but I'd like to believe there is a box of files in a storage unit somewhere and someone knows someone who used to work there etc ...
I mean, a guy can dream, right?

thanks in advance,
Dave
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: fsc66 on July 15, 2017, 12:26:03 AM
Here's some info:
If you goggle Martin Kovich, Tamaqua PA you'll get some hits to call:

Paul Winvoices
Title: Re: Success Motors
Post by: CDB on August 18, 2017, 07:43:55 PM
Contact this company and see if there's any relationships here:
http://www.successmotorstulsa.com/(aqcjvy55r3mo3i551xzhfk45)/mindex.aspx?UserName=oksuccessmotors


https://casetext.com/case/farmer-v-state-123

http://law.justia.com/cases/oklahoma/supreme-court/1927/50245.html

Paul

Thanks for the lead Paul, but I heard back from them today and they aren't related to the Success Motor Co. I'm looking for. They're the only active car company in OK called something with "Success Motor" that I can see from the registrations on the OK Secretary of State website.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: fsc66 on September 01, 2017, 02:31:02 PM
Dealer 35 Zone 166 is: J&B Chevrolet and Oldsmobile, 4 Prospect St, Belvidere, NJ. Prior to J&B the Chevrolet Dealership at this same location was Stewart Chevrolet who had been there since at least the 30's. J&B sold to Riverside Chevrolet who was owned by Ed Rossi who still owns NJ Dealerships. Currently the building is owned and operated by Crossflags Corvettes and Vintage Motorcars. I spoke to Bill the owner and he confirmed J&B being there prior to Riverside. He has already scoured over the building and no records anywhere, just an old safe that still shows Stewart Chevrolet. He has a pic of the building when owned bu Stewart on his web site:
http://www.cvette.com/

Paul Winvoices

(http://i63.tinypic.com/20p4vg4.jpg)
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: fsc66 on September 01, 2017, 06:16:42 PM
I contacted the Belvidere NJ library reference department looking for original listings for J&B.
They sent me the attached, so we know J&B was there in 1970.

(http://i66.tinypic.com/2nqwgpl.jpg)

(http://i64.tinypic.com/9ztbr.jpg)

(http://i68.tinypic.com/14dqb74.jpg)

Paul
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: CDB on September 07, 2017, 07:24:31 PM
Thanks. Good information to have and fast service.

If anyone reading this has information on "Success Motor Company" from  Tahlequah, Oklahoma, please message me. All I have been able to find on them is that their dealership location now belongs to a state university, the registered agents are now deceased, and have heard rumors that they became a different dealership in the area.

After a few months, this is what I have found. I'm posting so anyone that ends up finding this can have a better starting point than I did. If you ever have more success than I did, please reach out to me.

Success Motor Co. sold in the 70's to Jim D. Hopkins, who ran Jim Hopkins Chrysler and Jim Hopkins Ford. That then sold to Darrell Yates, becoming Darrell Yates Automall, inc. That sold, and is presently as of September, 2017, Tommy Nix Auto Group LLC. The receptionist at Tommy Nix is as far as I've been able to get, and she says they have no documents. I've been unable to track down either Jim  Hopkins or Darrell Yates.
Title: I just received myNCRS report
Post by: RRMs69Z on September 19, 2017, 02:36:46 AM
My 69 Z was delivered to Robert Chevrolet (Long Island NY) with a production date of 8-29-69. Looks like the dealership is still in business. I sent them an email requesting any info they may have on old sales. Let me know if anyone has any info on this dealer that may help in my investigation of my car. Thanks. 
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on September 19, 2017, 02:56:52 AM
RPMS...  your Camaro is about as late an Aug 69 production possible... Does it have the vinyl VIN sticker inside the jamb area of the drivers door?? 
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: fsc66 on September 19, 2017, 04:06:39 AM
Robert Chevrolet is still there and still in the same family. Owner races cars on the side. I just bought an Equinox there a few months ago for my sis-in-law. There is no paperwork anywhere in that place left over.
The ad below was found behind the sheet rock last renovation.

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2qn4eg4.jpg)

Paul
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: x66 714 on September 19, 2017, 04:16:43 AM
RRMs69Z was built a day after my ss396....Joe
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: RRMs69Z on September 19, 2017, 04:21:49 AM
Thanks for the info Paul, I figured that would be the case.
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Kelley W King on September 19, 2017, 01:17:49 PM
If it helps anyone, my 08E 69Z per NCRS
Production date  8/28/1969
Original dealer  code 613 in zone 32
Name and Location   Scuncio Cheverolet, Greenville, RI
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 69Z28-RS on September 19, 2017, 09:32:01 PM
Kelley, RRMs69Z, X66 714,

Each of your cars were 'late August '69' builds.   Are you aware of the CRG effort to ascertain WHEN the factory (Norwood or LA) began to apply the vinyl VIN stickers to the rear of the door, and also when the door frame was changed to include the indentations for the changes.   Are you fellas aware of that effort?  If not, you should each report if your cars driver doors have the change, and also if the VIN sticker was ever applied.   Photos would be good..  :)

Gary
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: x66 714 on September 20, 2017, 12:23:48 AM
My LH door & 1/4 are stamped H33 & the RH is stamped H34. My LH door is the new design but the car had a crappy paint job when I got it in 1981, even in the jams so I don't know if mine had the sticker. Built 8/28/1969.....Joe
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: RRMs69Z on September 20, 2017, 01:43:55 AM
Gary my car is being restored.  I plan to go to the shop on Friday and I will check. It was a drag car but the metal is all original (other than the tubed area).
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Tx-Z 302 on September 21, 2017, 12:05:33 AM
So my report from ncrs states the obvious production date of July 10th of 68. I kinda already knew that due to trim tag with 07B on it.  The car was delivered to Bill Conner Chevrolet Inc. In Muncie Indiana. A member on here sent me paper advertisements from that dealership from 1968 and one of the sales was for the date of August 8th,9th and 10th and listed a green 68 Z for a tad bit over $3000. There was no picture with the ad, just a stock number with no VIN.
Question 1. Does anyone know how long from the July 10 build to delivery?
Question 2. With my car being british green and built 1 month earlier than the ad what's the likelihood of that being my car?
Question 3. How many green Z28 would a dealer order? I wouldnt think I'd have 4 or 5 green ones at one time?? Vs. Red white black etc?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 70L34 on October 27, 2017, 03:34:11 AM
Hi everyone,

2 years and I still haven't identified dealer #201 in zone 44. Bumping this back up to see if anyone can assist. Thank you!

Hey folks,

Just received the NCRS docs for my 1968 Z. I had heard that the car was always in the SE Michigan / NW Ohio area. NCRS confirmed it was sold at dealer 201, zone 44, but that the dealer name was unavailable. Does anyone know this dealer?
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: Mitch-Z/28 on November 01, 2017, 06:06:02 PM
To my disappointment the NCRS web page states that no information is available on 69 Camaro vin numbers 9N508855 to 9N587275.. Mine is 9N560007. Good news is I have the information from the man I bought the car from gave me the previous owners name who lives near Dayton, Ohio. Have to search for his phone number and hope he is still living.[
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: fsc66 on November 13, 2017, 12:44:47 AM
PM me what you have and I'll see if I can help

Paul
Title: Re: Original dealer info for 1st gens is available
Post by: 262jp on November 16, 2017, 02:12:52 PM
Got mine today. Union Chevrolet. Memphis Tennessee. Had a Union Chev badge on tail pan when I found it. Build date says March  24. Cowl tag says 03D. 😊