CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: sixt9x33rs on January 04, 2014, 04:14:33 PM
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Anyone know anything about this car? It is amazing how many original cars are coming to the market. I love these survivor cars.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291050363977?forcerRptr=true&item=291050363977&viewitem=
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You don't see very many with a flat hood and no spoiler.
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No you don't
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No you don't
I agree with you Thor77
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Out of the 20 thousand Z's produced wasn't only about 5,000 that got the cold air hood?
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I agree it is a treat to see these cars coming to market, hopefully the new owner will find us here at the CRG.
So of course I read the description and did a quick look over the pics. The close up of the firewall stamps is interesting, looks like the "B" is brighter shade of orange.
I also noticed it has incorrect spark plug shields, probably put on when the motor was pulled?
Out of the 20 thousand Z's produced wasn't only about 5,000 that got the cold air hood?
Answer: actually less. 10,026 ZL2 hoods were factory installed on the 1969 Camaro. Of these 3674 were installed on Indy Pace cars. (not sure if that included the hardtop indy pace cars as well)They were also mandatory on the COPO cars (I am not sure the production number of these) Then the 69 ZL1 cars that were produced all had them I believe. So after all that you had about 5,000 to divide among 20,302 Z/28 's , and the remainder of SS production (about 30,000). I think Jerry figured it to be 1 in 10, but it seems like it would be closer to 1 in 11 or 1 in 12 new Z/28 had the ZL2 option from the factory.
Of course now a days it is just the opposite. Seems to be 1 in 12 has the flat hood, maybe 1 in 20 IMO....
Flat hood cars rock man.... ;)
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For future searches: 124379N574108
Paul
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I also noticed it has incorrect spark plug shields, probably put on when the motor was pulled?
Also, the crankcase breather hose is not connected to the air cleaner base. ???
Paul
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Love that very light overspray of green on the cowl tag. Pretty nice car for sure. I see where the firewall inspection stamp looks to be somewhat more florescent than the others. I keep seeing these cars with the stamps pronounced, but everybody keeps saying they are under the cowl finish. And should only be BARELY seen. And whoever stamps them on top is wrong. This sure looks on top to me.... And so have the last 10 survivor cars I have seen. I think we better rethink that under paint theory. This one even has an extra "T". Hasn't anybody ever talked to a former inspector in the last 44 years?
sixt9x33rs, time for you to pick up another one?? ;D ;D
.... Danny
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Love that very light overspray of green on the cowl tag. Pretty nice car for sure. I see where the firewall inspection stamp looks to be somewhat more florescent than the others. I keep seeing these cars with the stamps pronounced, but everybody keeps saying they are under the cowl finish. And should only be BARELY seen. And whoever stamps them on top is wrong. This sure looks on top to me.... And so have the last 10 survivor cars I have seen. I think we better rethink that under paint theory. This one even has an extra "T". Hasn't anybody ever talked to a former inspector in the last 44 years?
sixt9x33rs, time for you to pick up another one?? ;D ;D
.... Danny
Danny, the under cowl paint thing were chalk marks or crayon identifications, not the T B or P inspection stamps completed.
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Love that very light overspray of green on the cowl tag. Pretty nice car for sure. I see where the firewall inspection stamp looks to be somewhat more florescent than the others. I keep seeing these cars with the stamps pronounced, but everybody keeps saying they are under the cowl finish. And should only be BARELY seen. And whoever stamps them on top is wrong. This sure looks on top to me.... And so have the last 10 survivor cars I have seen. I think we better rethink that under paint theory. This one even has an extra "T". Hasn't anybody ever talked to a former inspector in the last 44 years?
sixt9x33rs, time for you to pick up another one?? ;D ;D
.... Danny
PTB marks were stamped after paint (at the end of Fisher production as JohnZ has told us many times). My car also has an extra 'T', and I think I've seen it on one additional original car.
PS. This car is WAY beyond 'nice' or 'pretty nice'.. It seems to have been in a vacuum chamber for 44 yrs (ignoring the fact that the engine and some other items were rebuilt).. it's very close to how they were showing in the showroom. A bit of polish on that lacquer paint would make it perfect... :) and doesn't that Rallye Green POP against the snow? :)
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Love that very light overspray of green on the cowl tag. Pretty nice car for sure. I see where the firewall inspection stamp looks to be somewhat more florescent than the others. I keep seeing these cars with the stamps pronounced, but everybody keeps saying they are under the cowl finish. And should only be BARELY seen. And whoever stamps them on top is wrong. This sure looks on top to me.... And so have the last 10 survivor cars I have seen. I think we better rethink that under paint theory. This one even has an extra "T". Hasn't anybody ever talked to a former inspector in the last 44 years?
sixt9x33rs, time for you to pick up another one?? ;D ;D
.... Danny
Danny I would love to pick this one up, but out of $$$ and out of space!!! Great car though!
Regarding the firewall stamps....my Gold car and the Silver car have the factory "BTP" stamps and I can tell you that they are stamped on top of the firewall paint. I also owned an original 69 Convertible that had the stamps on the firewall, and they were on top of the firewall paint.
Lawrence
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I feel stupid... :-[ :-[ I thought it was... well you know... I wish it was a X33 car.
And I am partial to cowl hoods and spoilers. I just think it really sets it off. But I would be willing to bet almost EVERY person who likes flat hood cars better... HAS a flat hood car.. I'm just saying... Survey 1000 men between the ages of 40 and 70 who like 1969 Camaros and ask them which they would rather have, cowl hood or flat hood. Bet about 7 or 800 of them will say cowl. Again, just saying... Danny
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I would disagree. I would say flat hood *if it originally came with a flat hood*
I have said it before though, I flat hood Z/28 just exudes correctness to me these days. Maybe because that was a popular item to switch if you had a flat hood car back in the day. I also like the spoilers but if the car didn't come with any, then don't run any. The hood, the spoilers, RS, none of that stuff does it for me. First and for most is that bad ass combo of the 302 the mandatory 4 speed and 9 times out of 10 a 3.73 or better 12 bolt posi unit. To me that separates the men from the boys. The other stuff may or may not add in small part to the performance, but more often then not is just flash, the drive train is what makes the car magic to me.
But I am a big 4 speed (manual trans) guy. I do have a couple of automatic cars but that is only because that is the way they left the factory. My 66 Chevelle SS is a 360hp power glide car, I would trade it for a SS 4 speed car if I found the right car/guy to do so.
Just my 2 cents. (It may be easy for me to say that though, the invoice for my Z car shows it came with the ZL2 hood and D80... ;) )
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I would agree with Danny. If I had no Camaros and had the choice between two equal survivor cars, one with ZL2 and spoilers and one without....I'd choose Cowl and spoilers for the appearance. Then, I'd go shopping for the non-equipped car like this one.
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Bought one looked just like this car in 1972. Same color combo no spoilers no cowl hood. Mine had no gauges was really plain jane. Did have posi and an AM radio.
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I would disagree. I would say flat hood *if it originally came with a flat hood*
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Just my 2 cents. (It may be easy for me to say that though, the invoice for my Z car shows it came with the ZL2 hood and D80... ;) )
So you're saying you want to trade your car for an original one just like it but which came with a flat hood and no spoilers? .. Maybe someone here will take you up on that.... ? :)
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I would rather have a flat hood non spoiler car.
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I am saying if there were two cars, one had spoilers and a ZL2 hood and one did not. I would want to find out if the car that had those options came with them. If both cars came with originally with the flat hood, and one car had it added later on, I would take the car that had the original flat hood. AND depending on color for me, if they were the same color and one had a factory ZL2 hood vs the other car of the same color having a flat hood, and everything else being equal, then I would take the ZL2 optioned car.
All I am saying is there are other things that may sway me more than that hood, I am just very fortunate I found the car that i have and it happened to be a car that was ordered with the ZL2 hood so along with the color it fit my criteria for the Z that I wanted.
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I would rather have a flat hood non spoiler car.
X2
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I like the ZL2 hood and later spoiler, but don't care much for early 69 spoiler. But if original to the car I would keep it on.
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My car has no spoilers, I put a cowl hood on 30 years ago. I'm strongly considering putting the flat hood back on, I like both but flat is what it came with, and with no spoilers it seems to sort of fit the car. My son has a 67 that's a hot rod all aluminum small block 427, 5 speed Tremic, even though it's a 67 his cowl hood seems to fit the car.
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My car has no spoilers, I put a cowl hood on 30 years ago. I'm strongly considering putting the flat hood back on, I like both but flat is what it came with, and with no spoilers it seems to sort of fit the car. My son has a 67 that's a hot rod all aluminum small block 427, 5 speed Tremic, even though it's a 67 his cowl hood seems to fit the car.
I totally agree there are some cars that i would put it on even if it wasn't an option. I looked at putting one on my 66 Chevelle at one point. IT IS A GOOD LOOKING HOOD, but if I bought a 69 Z that came with the flat hood, I would run the flat hood is all I am saying.
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I am saying if there were two cars, one had spoilers and a ZL2 hood and one did not. I would want to find out if the car that had those options came with them. If both cars came with originally with the flat hood, and one car had it added later on, I would take the car that had the original flat hood. AND depending on color for me, if they were the same color and one had a factory ZL2 hood vs the other car of the same color having a flat hood, and everything else being equal, then I would take the ZL2 optioned car.
All I am saying is there are other things that may sway me more than that hood, I am just very fortunate I found the car that i have and it happened to be a car that was ordered with the ZL2 hood so along with the color it fit my criteria for the Z that I wanted.
In that case, we are totally in agreement... :) you prefer ORIGINAL, and you love it that your car came originally with the ZL2.. :)
Now.. back in my street racing days when having a strong *sleeper* was King.... that's another matter.. *G*
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I guess if the car came with a flat hood, I would throw it in the rafters and run a cowl. Then if I ever sold it, switch it back. IF it would garner me more money. I just love the special ducted hood. Cause as we all know NO 69' Camaro ever came with a COWL hood. The first one was on a Chevelle. Learned that from Jerry's book years ago.... Danny 8)
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I guess if the car came with a flat hood, I would throw it in the rafters and run a cowl. Then if I ever sold it, switch it back. IF it would garner me more money. I just love the special ducted hood. Cause as we all know NO 69' Camaro ever came with a COWL hood. The first one was on a Chevelle. Learned that from Jerry's book years ago.... Danny 8)
Just because Chevy hadn't coined the term (yet) by 1969, it's still a specially ducted (from the cowl) 'cowl induction hood'... :)
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Doesn't matter where it gets the air from. Cut a hole under the seat and call it special "floor pan" hood. It just wasn't called "cowl" yet. If it was, then it would have been. And we wouldn't be talking about it. If transmission fluid was the same as power steering fluid there would only need to be one. In this case 1970 Chevelle was the first. Can't go back and change that. However we all will still call it that cause it is just too darn convenient. I sometimes play with the young kids at the car shows and say that sure is a nice special ducted hood ya got there. And they say, you mean my cowl hood. And I say Camaro never had a cowl hood. Good times, and so it goes... ;D ;D
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I guess if the car came with a flat hood, I would throw it in the rafters and run a cowl. Then if I ever sold it, switch it back. IF it would garner me more money. I just love the special ducted hood. Cause as we all know NO 69' Camaro ever came with a COWL hood. The first one was on a Chevelle. Learned that from Jerry's book years ago.... Danny 8)
it is debatable how much hp it developed, but again the marketing department and Chevrolet figured out that adding "Cowl induction" to the hood would sell more cars.
and from then on it was easier for the Camaro guys to call it a "cowl hood", then optional hood from the dealer.
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I guess if the car came with a flat hood, I would throw it in the rafters and run a cowl. Then if I ever sold it, switch it back. IF it would garner me more money. I just love the special ducted hood. Cause as we all know NO 69' Camaro ever came with a COWL hood. The first one was on a Chevelle. Learned that from Jerry's book years ago.... Danny 8)
it is debatable how much hp it developed, but again the marketing department and Chevrolet figured out that adding "Cowl induction" to the hood would sell more cars.
and from then on it was easier for the Camaro guys to call it a "cowl hood", then optional hood from the dealer.
Car guys knew the cowl area at the base of the windshield was a high pressure area, which was good to supply forced air to the carb, and some called it that. Camaros (and other cars) had done this for several years before 'chevy marketeers' placed the *obvious* nameplate on the hood of Chevelles and El Caminos.. :)
.. Maybe Chevy should have put an emblem on the fenders and called them an 'aero wheel covering'? *L* We all know where GM's marketeers mostly keep their heads... don't we?? :)
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I like both combinations, what's not to like about most any early Camaro,
The 69 Z28 I now have was originally built w/ flat hood, chambered exhaust, No spoilers, I was searching for this combination when I found it .
8)
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I like both combinations, what's not to like about most any early Camaro,
The 69 Z28 I now have was originally built w/ flat hood, chambered exhaust, No spoilers, I was searching for this combination when I found it .
8)
Good point, but how about a pic for us?
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If you like cowl hoods what about the cross-ram cowl hood? :)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/69z28/100_8050_zps6e5f9d27.jpg) (http://s192.photobucket.com/user/1-2-b-67L89/media/69z28/100_8050_zps6e5f9d27.jpg.html)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/69z28/100_8145_zps672d34ff.jpg) (http://s192.photobucket.com/user/1-2-b-67L89/media/69z28/100_8145_zps672d34ff.jpg.html)
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The hood, 8) cool. The Spoiler, headlight rings, turn signal lenses, and billet hood hinges not so much :P IMO
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The hood, 8) cool. The Spoiler, headlight rings, turn signal lenses, and billet hood hinges not so much :P IMO
[/quoteThe hood, 8) cool. The Spoiler, headlight rings, turn signal lenses, and billet hood hinges not so much :P IMO
Thanks for the negative compliments! Have a great day! :)
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Sorry, I am just not a big billet fan. I like the wheels and color, but thats what makes this a great hobby everybody has different tastes and opinions on what looks good. Obviously there is a huge market for the aftermarket items I mentioned, so I am probably in the minority. No disrespect was meant, thats why I said in my opinion (IMO). :)
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Sometimes it is nicer to just keep your opinion to yourself. I think this was one of those times.
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Sometimes it is nicer to just keep your opinion to yourself. I think this was one of those times.
X2!
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Sometimes it is nicer to just keep your opinion to yourself. I think this was one of those times.
Glad to see you chime in, to aid (?) the conversation? I apologized, we can all pull up our big girl panties now, and move on right?
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by the way it was my mistake, I didn't realize it was your car Chick. I thought it was a image you had grabbed off the net, to show us the hood. So if I had a rewind button or a do over,
"nice hood"
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I like both combinations, what's not to like about most any early Camaro,
The 69 Z28 I now have was originally built w/ flat hood, chambered exhaust, No spoilers, I was searching for this combination when I found it .
8)
[/quote]
Good point, but how about a pic for us?
[/quote]
I just looked at the CRG Home Page , I am surprised to see a photo my Burgandy 69 Z28 as one of the 3 cars,
Thanks CRG.
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The Blue cross ram Z28 on here is very pretty color, I like it
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I love the blue car, Chick. All the add-ons are tastefully done. Especially the spoiler. Where did you get it? Wouldnt mind having that on my 69 when it comes time to restore that one.
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I would rather have a flat hood non spoiler car.
Me too!
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My car has no spoilers, I put a cowl hood on 30 years ago. I'm strongly considering putting the flat hood back on, I like both but flat is what it came with, and with no spoilers it seems to sort of fit the car. My son has a 67 that's a hot rod all aluminum small block 427, 5 speed Tremic, even though it's a 67 his cowl hood seems to fit the car.
The first thing I did when I bought my car in 1978, was to go to Chevy and order a ZL-2 hood. About ten years ago, I decided to go back to the flat hood. I LOVE the look.
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I like
I would
I prefer
I should
::)
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Anyone know anything about this car? It is amazing how many original cars are coming to the market. I love these survivor cars.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291050363977?forcerRptr=true&item=291050363977&viewitem=
No sale 1-10-14...
Reserve not met = ? (> $66,100.00)
Paul
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I love the blue car, Chick. All the add-ons are tastefully done. Especially the spoiler. Where did you get it? Wouldnt mind having that on my 69 when it comes time to restore that one.
That was a spoiler Lonny had at East Coast Muscle Cars for his personal pro-touring car he's building but the previous owner bugged him to put on his car when being built. I never thought I would get into pro-touring cars since I enjoy the originality but the car is extremely fun to drive and are extremely popular. Mostly Detroit Speed underneath and lowered 3".
Thanks for the compliments,
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/69z28/100_8312_zps6a40a702.jpg) (http://s192.photobucket.com/user/1-2-b-67L89/media/69z28/100_8312_zps6a40a702.jpg.html)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/69z28/100_8317_zps2d1c08d6.jpg) (http://s192.photobucket.com/user/1-2-b-67L89/media/69z28/100_8317_zps2d1c08d6.jpg.html)
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your car appears amazingly well done.. over and under... *S*
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I too love the original flat hood no spoiler look but can always find something to like on any first gen. Camaro. I find it fascinating that a lot of the cars you see on here are as unique as there owners. It would be boring if they were all just cookie cutters.
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I too love the original flat hood no spoiler look but can always find something to like on any first gen. Camaro. I find it fascinating that a lot of the cars you see on here are as unique as there owners. It would be boring if they were all just cookie cutters.
good point.
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.This one even has an extra "T". Hasn't anybody ever talked to a former inspector in the last 44 years?
.... Danny
I'm sorry...coming in late...which T would be the extra one? Thanks.
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.This one even has an extra "T". Hasn't anybody ever talked to a former inspector in the last 44 years?
.... Danny
I'm sorry...coming in late...which T would be the extra one? Thanks.
The second one.... *wink*...
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You mean the second pic of the T by the trim tag? They all have that,right?
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Here's my tag...this T is extra or not in the norm of most PBT? just wondering.
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My car also had a 'T' down below the trim plate, but it wasn't visible until I removed the brake booster. In addition, there is the standard 'PTB' over to the right of the trim tab which are more visible. I think we referred to the 'T' below the trim plate as the 'second T'... Is yours the same? and was it your intention to post that ALL Camaros have that second T under the trim plate?
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I only own one and it has it..saw a post saying extra T. Thought I'd inquirer...do all Nor 69's have a T under the plate..I don't know. Do most?, do some ?, do not that many? I love to know my family car.
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I only own one and it has it..saw a post saying extra T. Thought I'd inquirer...do all Nor 69's have a T under the plate..I don't know. Do most?, do some ?, do not that many? I love to know my family car.
The "BPT" stamps occur randomly on Norwood cars. Some are behind the power brake booster if the car has that option. Some are behind the heater box etc. It is nice to see them on cars because you know the car has not had a rattle can under the hood. They come in green or orangish red in color. I have never seen an original car with both colors, but they could be out there. Alot of guys use both cars when replicating them.