CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: gary on December 11, 2013, 11:19:37 PM

Title: Trim Tag
Post by: gary on December 11, 2013, 11:19:37 PM
Hello Guys,
    I purchase a 69 Camaro with vin # 124379NOR545301 and the trim tag was missing. I was told it was a 11C car but he misplaced the trim tag and couldn't fine it. If anybody out there has a car built close to this one would you please give me your trim tag info. I need the body number. I can have a tag made but just don't know what the body number should be.  Thanks for all the info.  Gary
Title: Re: Trim Tag
Post by: william on December 11, 2013, 11:47:29 PM
The body number was generated when Central Office confirmed the dealers order. Many orders were cancelled and never built for a variety of reasons; about 27% to be exact. Also, cars were not built in body number order. The next car off the line might have a number 10,000 higher/lower than yours. All this makes knowing the number impossible without original paperwork.

Repro tags are easy to spot and will raise suspicions about the car.     
Title: Re: Trim Tag
Post by: gary on December 11, 2013, 11:50:03 PM
Thanks William.
Title: Re: Trim Tag
Post by: 6667ss138 on December 12, 2013, 05:03:35 AM
I heard recently about a local guy that had a missing tim tag. He just got a replacement for his supposed 69 pace car project. Supposedly the guy selling the new trim tag guaranteed him that none of the "experts" will be able to tell. Made me sick to hear it and I'm hoping it is just a sales pitch and you guys can still bust them no matter how good they think they are getting.
Title: Re: Trim Tag
Post by: gary on December 12, 2013, 12:27:17 PM
I'm a numbers person but couldn't pass this car up for the money. My oldest daughter has lost three babies with the last one May 25 of this year. I am building this car for her and there will be nothing totally correct on it . I purchased this body for $825.00 with a title but it needs a lot of metal and will be a total restore project. I own a 67 Z/28, 68 RS Z/28, 69 RS Z/28 and other orginal cars and orginal 70 chevy truck my dad bought new. I have never changed a trim tag or vin tag on a car but just couldn't pass this car up.  So with all said, and I don't want to have anybody upset about me having a trim tag made, I just wanted to have it close if I could. Thanks for all you help and have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Title: Re: Trim Tag
Post by: ko-lek-tor on December 12, 2013, 02:18:37 PM
I am building this car for her and there will be nothing totally correct on it .
First, My heart goes out to your daughter and you and your family for the loss's mentioned. No car will replace those precious lives we all know. As much as you would like things to be different, regarding both your daughter's situation and your trim tag, my advice, FWIW, forget about getting a TT and accept the car as it is and for what it is. If nothing is "totally correct", as you state, what does it matter? Not to get religious, but this well known prayer comes to mind,"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

The courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference." Hope this helps you and Merry Christmas.
Title: Re: Trim Tag
Post by: 6667ss138 on December 12, 2013, 02:47:19 PM
Gary, my comments were really directed to William's comment, "Repro tags are easy to spot and will raise suspicions about the car" The bad guys in our hobby are working harder and harder to perfect a trim tag so that the experts such as William and the others here at CRG can't spot them. There have just been so many plain jane camaros that have "become" real Z/28's, Z/11 Pace cars etc.and then they pass them off as the real authuentic deal. This is hurting our hobby when these cars become cloned to become something it wasn't born with only for monetary gain. My point with my comment above is that I am hoping that these bad guys have not perfected these tags yet and will not be able to fool all the experts as they claim for the purpose of forgery and theft.
I am also very sorry for the loss in your family.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and all the best on your project.
Title: Re: Trim Tag
Post by: 69Z28-RS on December 12, 2013, 02:59:35 PM
Unless you have a means to *KNOW* the original body number of your car, you would have to GUESS which body number to put on any FAKE (not reproduction) TAG.   The body numbers are NOT as important as VIN numbers, BUT.. they are still UNIQUE to the body they were installed on.   

IF you buy a fake trim tag, either you or the 'counterfeiter' will have to guess the body number, and there is a very small probability you will guess the correct one, and a very high probability you will select a body number that will duplicate a REAL car out there.

Suggestion:  If you really want to install a tag there (to fill up the rivet holes? or?)..  and if you really want to pay the counterfeiters for a fake trim tag, why not have them make one like this:

       Camaro VIN _____________
       Rebuilt by ______(your name) ________
       FOR my daughter ______(her name)____
       Date ________   Color ______  Trim ___

ie.. Commemorate the occcasion of this build by you for your daughter!!
Title: Re: Trim Tag
Post by: 6667ss138 on December 12, 2013, 03:05:02 PM
Now thats a very nice idea.
Title: Re: Trim Tag
Post by: BillOhio on December 12, 2013, 04:45:26 PM
I was going to suggest the same thing. Her own trim tag!
Title: Re: Trim Tag
Post by: janobyte on December 12, 2013, 07:18:02 PM
Wow, what a heart warming idea :'(    Very good.
Title: Re: Trim Tag
Post by: gary on December 12, 2013, 09:12:16 PM
Hey Guys,
   Thanks for all the comments and I understand how you fill about the fake trim tags. I fill the same way. I would not have a plane jane car and put a Z/28 trim tag on it. I own 6 Z/28's and that's not me. This was just a car but a 69 and I couldn't  pass it up because the trim tag was missing. I do like the thoughts on the other trim tags. Something to think about. Any how thanks for the comments and info and you guys are great. I just hope you are all blessed this next coming year and Happy Holidays.  Gary

P.S. I have narrow the body number down from a couple of other 11C cars I found. This car was between 174300 and 181300.
Title: Re: Trim Tag
Post by: 69Z28-RS on December 13, 2013, 01:56:08 AM
gary,

VIN numbers are sequential..  Body numbers are NOT sequential, and you cannot 'narrow in' on a body number based on production date or anything else, unless you have the original orders where the cars were ordered from GM.
Title: Re: Trim Tag
Post by: gary on December 13, 2013, 02:06:00 PM
Gary,
    Thanks for the info and I do understand that the body number was not sequential.  I will never get the correct body number without the paper work but still would like to know what was around it. The 2 cars I know built 11C are 6798 cars apart and the body number is 7037 numbers apart and the oldest car or one built first had the larger number which is not in sequence.  I believe I will have a special tag made after I get the car built something like the one you described. Thanks Gary
Title: Re: Trim Tag
Post by: 69Z28-RS on December 13, 2013, 03:31:10 PM
Gary,
    Thanks for the info and I do understand that the body number was not sequential.  I will never get the correct body number without the paper work but still would like to know what was around it. The 2 cars I know built 11C are 6798 cars apart and the body number is 7037 numbers apart and the oldest car or one built first had the larger number which is not in sequence.  I believe I will have a special tag made after I get the car built something like the one you described. Thanks Gary

And rather than 'paying the counterfeiters', you could also make your own tag (from Aluminum or ??) have it engraved or embossed the way you like... paint it .. or not.. and mount it in the TT location in the same holes.   Seeing or knowing a 'fake trim tag', makes me dislike the whole car, whereas seeing a TT made with the love you have for your daughter, would make all of us LIKE it even more than what the car itself is.. :)
Title: Re: Trim Tag
Post by: vtfb68 on December 13, 2013, 05:42:21 PM
Gary, I think a phony tag in your stable will call into question all your cars originality.   VT
Title: Re: Trim Tag
Post by: janobyte on December 13, 2013, 07:09:58 PM
I don't see a problem as long as up front; leads to a good story of a father doing something special for a child.
Title: Re: Trim Tag
Post by: Mike S on December 13, 2013, 08:21:35 PM
  If it's a plane Jane Camaro then I don't see anything wrong with explaining that the tag was missing (that's if you even sell it) and you put a replacement on it so as to keep it looking the way it did.
If it doesn't have the codes for the more in demand models then its obvious you aren't trying anything suspicious. But for a plane Jane, who cares.
Look out on eBay for one that fits your period this way you likely will get a real one and the chances of a reproduction being recognized will be a moot point, but be forwarned that those tags are tracked and recorded in a DB at CRG  ;)

Good luck with your restoration,
Mike

Title: Re: Trim Tag
Post by: rich69rs on December 14, 2013, 05:49:28 AM
Gary,
    Thanks for the info and I do understand that the body number was not sequential.  I will never get the correct body number without the paper work but still would like to know what was around it. The 2 cars I know built 11C are 6798 cars apart and the body number is 7037 numbers apart and the oldest car or one built first had the larger number which is not in sequence.  I believe I will have a special tag made after I get the car built something like the one you described. Thanks Gary

A few years ago I was trying to correlate the body number of my 69 01C Norwood built RS to an actual build date and I had put togehter the following from various sources; i.e. this forum, online auctions, etc.  In my short, non statistical list, the 01B builds vary from 226xxx to body numbers 231xxx.  Beginning with 01C the body numbers dropped back to 220xxx and 225xxx before jumping up to 237xxx.  Close, yes - but definitely not sequential and too much variability to draw any new conclusions.

Build      Body Number

12B       208874
12C       213656
12D       218542
01B       226339
01B       229291
01B       231468
01B       231654
01C       220831
01C       225292
01C       225431
01C       237549

Title: Re: Trim Tag
Post by: rich69rs on December 16, 2013, 09:18:57 PM
Found this link on the topic from 2007 that might be of interest as well:

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=2609.0