CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: firstgenaddict on December 04, 2013, 09:13:01 PM

Title: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: firstgenaddict on December 04, 2013, 09:13:01 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/OH_B7KVaKCPz0gLgYBcYwG4zxSWGtQv8JCDy9SXLHSY=w798-h599-no)

The M15 is difficult to read as it appears as a M18 except at the perfect angle.

The whole thing is double imaged on the windshield and is in a 12C 69 Big Block Conv. upon close inspection the glass doesn't appear to have been removed at any point.
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: KurtS on December 05, 2013, 05:27:16 AM
But clearly, that's not OEM glass and would never have made it into the plant.
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: x77-69z28 on December 05, 2013, 06:03:41 AM
I have the same windshield in my Z. Put in in 78 or so when rust was repaired around the dash.
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: paceme on December 05, 2013, 08:18:20 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/OH_B7KVaKCPz0gLgYBcYwG4zxSWGtQv8JCDy9SXLHSY=w798-h599-no)

The M15 is difficult to read as it appears as a M18 except at the perfect angle.

The whole thing is double imaged on the windshield and is in a 12C 69 Big Block Conv. upon close inspection the glass doesn't appear to have been removed at any point.

James is the glass sescured/set with the orig cloth type seal ?
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: firstgenaddict on December 06, 2013, 04:27:33 AM
Here are some detailed photos of the glass and bed.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-yLWS7wTkarA/UqFP4ZZq8FI/AAAAAAAAFKk/nAhEtdxqWdc/s640/100_8632.JPG)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-sghEnAfN8PU/UqFRFNf_XKI/AAAAAAAAFLA/5xOBqg9JsjQ/s640/100_8629.JPG)


You can clearly see where the suede was broken with a hard tape line.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-elXCDIGzMbg/UqFQ7HB8wmI/AAAAAAAAFK4/2w9-cOG_BKw/s640/100_8626.JPG)
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: firstgenaddict on December 06, 2013, 06:23:32 AM
Steve,
Yes it is secured with the cloth type seal.
The last pic above shows the weave through the glass just above and to the right of the glass stay.
I can get some more photos, however I beleive the above pic illustrates the seal well.

James
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: firstgenaddict on December 07, 2013, 11:56:37 AM
Better Photo of the cloth type seal...
So Steve are there others out there?

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6AYLUJEaZDY/UqMKn_12XTI/AAAAAAAAFMk/gP5vci60OTw/s640/100B8750.JPG)
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: firstgenaddict on August 27, 2014, 09:32:03 PM
I have the same windshield in my Z. Put in in 78 or so when rust was repaired around the dash.

By "same" you obviously are not saying it is installed with the factory cloth type seal, however are you stating that your windshield does not have a DOT marking and that the Glass markings are EXACTLY as the one illustrated letter for letter or does yours have a similar looking Brand Logo with details being different?

So another member has contacted me with a 68 L78 survivor his father purchased new it also has a non DOT Shat-R-Proof front glass (never replaced)... that makes 2... anyone else have one?
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: x77-69z28 on August 28, 2014, 01:59:35 AM
I don't remember if it's dot or not. I am not with the car right now. I will check when I get home.
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: rick 67 on August 29, 2014, 11:24:02 PM
 All Norwood first gens should have an LOF windshield. It is a legal requirement to  have the AS-1 the M-  and the DOT  as part of the monogram. LA Camaros should have an Lof windshield as well. Its possible for a PPG to have made it into a few also as they had the windshield contract for the Firebird.

 Shat r proof is an agr or aftermarket supplier
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: cook_dw on August 30, 2014, 12:58:38 AM
So another member has contacted me with a 68 L78 survivor his father purchased new it also has a non DOT Shat-R-Proof front glass (never replaced)... that makes 2... anyone else have one?


(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s649/cook_dw/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20L78%20Camaro/image_zps88685f22.jpg) (http://s1310.photobucket.com/user/cook_dw/media/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20L78%20Camaro/image_zps88685f22.jpg.html)

Not the greatest pic but

(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s649/cook_dw/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20L78%20Camaro/image_zps62218714.jpg) (http://s1310.photobucket.com/user/cook_dw/media/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20L78%20Camaro/image_zps62218714.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: firstgenaddict on September 01, 2014, 12:05:52 AM
All Norwood first gens should have an LOF windshield. It is a legal requirement to  have the AS-1 the M-  and the DOT  as part of the monogram. LA Camaros should have an Lof windshield as well. Its possible for a PPG to have made it into a few also as they had the windshield contract for the Firebird.

 Shat r proof is an agr or aftermarket supplier
I am going to have to disagree... I have provided detailed evidence showing at least 2 Norwood cars had Shat-r-proof windshields installed at the factory.

Do you know that Shat-r-proof did not supply a small batch of windshields, to keep prices in line from the current suppliers, for production suitability tests in the process of adding a new vendor, or insert reason here,
I have no way of knowing what thousands of employees in multiple plants did to accommodate production on any given day which is why I have devoted  time and provide directly observed and documented data for aggregation.

Until I was contracted to paint the above car I would have never thought Shat-R-Proof glass could be Norwood installed, however when I started taking it apart it was apparent the glass had never been removed, which is why I posted everything before I removed the glass.   

I enjoy the research of production anomalies, if you have relevant directly observed or personally gathered data I eagerly await your reply.

 
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: ko-lek-tor on September 01, 2014, 12:24:42 AM
Just a plausible explanation I will throw out here: Cars did get damaged in transit, that is a fact. Some where damaged before they left the plant parking storage. Some were damaged at the dealer lot too. Who knows, maybe GM supplied the cloth covered seals in those repairs... and those windshields have been on those cars since delivery to the 1st owner, so , since new. explains a lot. I have seen a lot of sheetmetal repairs and overspray on new cars as well. Also historically speaking, there was a lot of unrest during this time in our country (protests and riots) that could have interrupted usual supply chains.
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: 6667ss138 on September 01, 2014, 03:11:39 AM
Here is the windshield in my 07A X77 3 owner car.
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: 6667ss138 on September 01, 2014, 04:57:26 AM
Thought this was interesting. Note the date of Dec 7th 1970 and the statement in the first paragraph "The litigants are suppliers of replacement windshields, not original equipment suppliers."

http://www.leagle.com/decision/19701176322FSupp854_11029.xml/SHATTERPROOF%20GLASS%20CORP.%20v.%20GUARDIAN%20GLASS%20COMPANY
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: firstgenaddict on September 01, 2014, 05:40:22 AM
Just a plausible explanation I will throw out here: Cars did get damaged in transit, that is a fact. Some where damaged before they left the plant parking storage. Some were damaged at the dealer lot too. Who knows, maybe GM supplied the cloth covered seals in those repairs... and those windshields have been on those cars since delivery to the 1st owner, so , since new. explains a lot. I have seen a lot of sheetmetal repairs and overspray on new cars as well. Also historically speaking, there was a lot of unrest during this time in our country (protests and riots) that could have interrupted usual supply chains.

So now there are 3 of them... no DOT codes... which consequently were implemented after these 3 cars were built.... hmmm
Still doesn't explain the windshields being installed with the factory glass adhesive sealer... that is the issue, if the glass were in there and it had an after market install their would be no question, however it is my understanding that it was not possible for an after market supplier to install glass by hand manually as it was done inside the factory with a machine. 
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: rick 67 on September 01, 2014, 05:47:40 AM
http://www.camaros.org/glass.shtml
 Well first I would read that report, very informative. But I can tell you that as a 30 year LOF/Pilkington employee there are some small mistakes in it.
Today GM can and do open contracts to other companies for Market tests and we have grabbed a few contracts over the past "8" years they have been doing it. They did not start doing that until this century.  Back in the sixties LOF Rossford Ohio and Lathrope Ca.  had the windshield, backlite and doorlite contracts for all Camaros.   We had all doorlite glass for the Firebird. PPG had the windshield and backlite glass for the Firebird. I think in 69 PPG got some of the Camaro also. All LOF aftermarket glass was stamped LOF and used no other name. I believe PPG had some aftermarket names none of which are Shat R Proof
  As someone who has monogrammed about 4 million pieces of glass back when we still sandblasted them on I can tell you the first example shown is a double struck piece of crap that couldn't have been repaired and in no way comes close to an OEM windshield. The second shows too much wear in the positive as the letters and #'s are filling in. Not OEM quality but ok for AGR. The third shows fade out top to bottom on the blasting, although by 60's standards passable for OEM not great. So I have seen 3 poorly monogrammed pieces of glass, screams AGR to me. But don't take my word for it I only do it for living !   Another detail missing is the LAMINATED part of the stamp.  The Sat r proof should also have a laminated stamp on it required by GM for OEM glass.
  Even if LOF or PPG were on strike during any of that time we are required by GM to increase our inventory dramatically when our contracts come up to cover labor disruptions and either company could probably pick up short term slack on top of that.
  Lastly do you not think aftermarket installers back in the day couldn't put in a windshield as well as the factory ? Every car on a new car lot today visits a local body shop for touch ups that you can't tell are there.
Anything else you need ?

Rick
 

 
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: rick 67 on September 01, 2014, 05:49:06 AM
oops small mistake DOT codes came in the 70's
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: firstgenaddict on September 01, 2014, 06:17:18 AM
 
oops small mistake DOT codes came in the 70's

No I do not believe after market installers could install glass the same as the factory at that time.
It would take someone with a DOT coded glass installed with the factory seal in a pre DOT car for me to believe it.

Say what you will but the Shat-r-proof glass is going back in the car as everything found to this point indicates it is the ORIGINAL factory installed piece.

DOT markings may not have been required until the 70's however I had a 45 k mile april 1969 Z28 Legend certified original paint car with DOT bugs on every glass.
I have read the report many times I have also removed tons of glass and have never seen a factory type seal used in conjunction with an after market glass, as an aside I know what the abbreviated installation looks like and this seal was never cut.  

What is the earliest appearance of DOT coded glass in a 69 model year Camaro?
When glass was going from non DOT to DOT coded there are any number of things which could have happened.

BTW the report states LAMINATED was a STATE MARK from historic state requirements not a GM required mark.
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: firstgenaddict on September 01, 2014, 06:41:24 AM
GM Marks
Additionally, General Motors itself required several specific marks on OEM glass, including:

Shaded --Added to tinted GM OEM windshields when they included the upper, dark (non-AS1), tint band. For regulatory purposes these windshields are only AS1 glass below the tint band.

AS1 is defined... as Laminated, thus Laminated need not be spelled out. the AS1 classification already includes Laminated Windshield.

Seems to me all the above glasses exhibit all requisite markings...
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: rick 67 on September 01, 2014, 06:48:06 AM
 I can tell you that in 1973 at the GM car assembly plant in Oshawa Ontario they were still putting them in by hand. Guy on each side with suction cups .My aoto mechanics class was on a tour there and the guide pointed out that the windshields were from the plant in Collingwood where we were from.
  As well as late as 2009 the JEEP LIBERTY had what we called a racetrack on the inboard lite. Two parallel lines around the circumference of the windshield so that the guy putting the urethane on by" hand" didn't go outside the lines !  With the model change in 2009 the Liberty windshield had two small unpainted lines through both inboard and outboard lites near the bottom edge for the now robot to see to install the windshield. The Impala we have made since 2004 has none of these. The Chevy pick up which we have made since 76 still does not have any marks for a robot to identify. The Lexus SUV has identifiers (Cambridge Ontario)  I am pretty sure the 4th  and5th gen Camaros don't have any .Not sure about the 6th we are running it but I have not been over to see it yet.
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: rick 67 on September 01, 2014, 06:57:22 AM
 And since GM didn't know which state the car was going to all of them got it !
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: rick 67 on September 01, 2014, 07:11:22 AM
 If you believe its original put it back in the car by all means.
 I love these discussions. I know mistakes we made ended up and still end up in cars (pretty much all of them  get caught at some point nowadays) Nothing like a Camaro hud windshield getting out with the wrong plastic in it. But Shat R Proof is an Aftermarket supplier. You would have to get documents from GM to prove it ever got any OEM glass from them !
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: firstgenaddict on September 01, 2014, 07:40:21 AM
This is a discussion on a TRI 5 Forum....
Shat-r-proof and LOF marked on the same windshield -
Shat-R-Proof" Windshield?
My convertible has a windshield marked Shat-R-Proof in the lower passenger corner. I assumed the original had been replaced. Then I saw a friend's original '55 that also had one. Where these used by the factory in '55? It's also marked LOF and coded, but I don't know how to decipher. Thanks!
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: rick 67 on September 01, 2014, 05:21:45 PM
  So I spent some time doing some research. IS IT POSSIBLE for a Shat R Proof windshield to be installed at the factory ?? Along with the 3 Camaros and the 2 55's I  also found a 62 corvette that is supposed to be original. The  55 chevy is very telling as it has both the LOF and Shat R p Proof logos on it.
 Its possible that LOF had an agreement to produce and monogram AGR parts for Shat R Proof.  Although to my knowledge and history at our plant it was never done until recently for Belron. Also recently GM stopped letting us ship  AGR glass with their logo on  them. So we have to remove it and apply our own.
  How would it happen ? IF they had an agreement then during an OEM run parts that don't make OE quality are packed for AGR repair.  Also repairable OEM glass is packed or could be fixed at this time and put into a finished case.
  So you can have five or six part cases sitting around AFTER FINAL INSPECTION . To be repaired OEM glass and AGR logo to be removed and Shat R Proof logo added glass along with a part case of Finished glass. 
  So now you have 7 or 8 part racks sitting around to be fixed repaired and filled. Throw in a shift change or two and it is possible for a Shat R Proof windshield to get to GM and installed in a car.
  THIS IS ONLY POSSIBLE IF LOF SUPPLIED SHAT R PROOF with their windshields for these parts. If not You have an AGR windshield.
   There is one possible guy at work who would have an idea if there was an agreement but unlikely. You would have to find someone from Rossford or Lathrope from way back to find out.
 Hope we are being a little more constructive.

 Rick
 
 
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: JohnZ on September 02, 2014, 03:16:41 PM

What is the earliest appearance of DOT coded glass in a 69 model year Camaro?

My all-original untouched Norwood 02D '69 Z/28 has all its original glass, and all except the windshield are DOT-marked. All the side glass is "XV" (February 1969), the backlite is "NV" (March, 1969), and the windshield is "XV" (February, 1969). Car came off the line on February 27th and was shipped on February 28th.
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: KurtS on September 02, 2014, 03:27:21 PM
What is the earliest appearance of DOT coded glass in a 69 model year Camaro?

Jan 69 at both LOS and NOR. Could be earlier, but that's the earliest we've seen.
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: BULLITT65 on September 02, 2014, 08:48:56 PM

What is the earliest appearance of DOT coded glass in a 69 model year Camaro?

My all-original untouched Norwood 02D '69 Z/28 has all its original glass, and all except the windshield are DOT-marked. All the side glass is "XV" (February 1969), the backlite is "NV" (March, 1969), and the windshield is "XV" (February, 1969). Car came off the line on February 27th and was shipped on February 28th.
So would your back lite have been replaced at one point? (since it is dated march, and you say your car came off the line in February)
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: firstgenaddict on September 02, 2014, 10:56:36 PM
Thank you Rik67 that is very helpful in understanding processes and the accumulation for glass not passing inspection.


The 1969 Fisher Body Service Manual states as a Note in the beginning of the Stationary Glass Section ***" When the glass is originally installed a rubber sealing strip "dam" is used around the edges to prevent excessive squeeze out of the adhesive caulk material. Service installations do not utilize this part. By applying masking tape around the inner perimeter prior to installation excess material is picked up and removed with the tape.***  emphasis added

This part "Dam" is what I understand to be the difference in the factory installation.
It is visible in the photos I showed.


 I have magnified detail pics of the windshield edge, glass bed and sealer in place taken with a macro lens, the windshield thickness appears as 2" at native resolution.
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: KERR on September 03, 2014, 02:18:59 PM
Mine didnt say that it did "SHAT .RRRRRR    all over the freaking garage...   been finding glass for the last 3 months !
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: JohnZ on September 03, 2014, 06:54:03 PM
So would your back lite have been replaced at one point? (since it is dated march, and you say your car came off the line in February)

Nope. The guys at the glass plant jumped the gun to the March logo by a couple of days.
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: JohnZ on September 03, 2014, 07:01:17 PM
however it is my understanding that it was not possible for an after market supplier to install glass by hand manually as it was done inside the factory with a machine. 

I don't know why this issue keeps coming up or how it got started, but it's incorrect. Windshields and backlites were installed manually in the plant (two guys with suction-cup grippers for each glass), just like the replacement guys used in the glass shops. Machines/robots weren't used successfully to install fixed glass in production until MANY years later.
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on September 03, 2014, 07:44:28 PM
So would your back lite have been replaced at one point? (since it is dated march, and you say your car came off the line in February)

Nope. The guys at the glass plant jumped the gun to the March logo by a couple of days.

OR.. maybe John..  your car got built/finished late?   Do you know the date of production based on your VIN?  or from GM docs?   It *could be* that even with a 02D scheduled week, your car wasn't built until the early days of March...
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: firstgenaddict on September 03, 2014, 11:07:02 PM
His shipping date is in Feb.

 
"I don't know why this issue keeps coming up or how it got started, but it's incorrect. Windshields and backlites were installed manually in the plant (two guys with suction-cup grippers for each glass), just like the replacement guys used in the glass shops. Machines/robots weren't used successfully to install fixed glass in production until MANY years later."

I stand corrected... probably started by the replacement glass companies which is where I heard it years ago.

John, was the "dam" material READILY/EASILY available to after market installers at the time?
&
If so how common was it for outside glass installers to use the "dam"?
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: rick 67 on September 04, 2014, 01:25:15 AM
 Can't find the link to the TRI 5 discussion.   Also talked to our plant Quality guy (and glass guru today) and am emailing the pics to him but some pics of the 55 with with both logos would be a big help. He will forward this to a guy out of Rossford that he says knows all things LOF glass.    Just an observation but the second logo looks painted to me.

Rick
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: JohnZ on September 04, 2014, 03:31:35 PM
OR.. maybe John..  your car got built/finished late?   Do you know the date of production based on your VIN?  or from GM docs?   It *could be* that even with a 02D scheduled week, your car wasn't built until the early days of March...

The NCRS data shows it came off the line on February 27th, and the Canadian docs show it was shipped on February 28th.
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: JohnZ on September 04, 2014, 03:45:06 PM
John, was the "dam" material READILY/EASILY available to after market installers at the time?
&
If so how common was it for outside glass installers to use the "dam"?

We received the extruded "dam" material on 200- or 300-foot spools (it took about 18 feet per windshield); our application gun applied hot-melt glue to the fabric-reinforced side of the dam as it was applied to the (cleaned and primed) glass. I have no idea when the dam material became available to the aftermarket.
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on September 05, 2014, 02:53:23 AM
So would your back lite have been replaced at one point? (since it is dated march, and you say your car came off the line in February)

Nope. The guys at the glass plant jumped the gun to the March logo by a couple of days.

John,  are you aware of other situations where the glass plants 'jumped the gun' on their dates by a week or more - which it seems would have been required in the case you cite..  Was this a common occurrence in the plants that the date codes didn't mean anything?  .. if so, it sorta makes all these games we play with 'dates' meaningless....
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: rick 67 on September 05, 2014, 03:19:11 PM
 Well I am probably going to jump into some DO DO again. Normative practice and required by GM is to have a "3 week supply" of finished glass in the system. Up to 12 weeks close to our labor contract expiring. In theory that works well in practice eh not. So GM makes 20 thousand Camaros a month  A tempering furnace can make 8 thousand backlites in 24 hours. They run the sidelites and rear quarters as double lines ( both side lites at the same time, both rear quarters at the same time) So doing the math that is approx. 8 furnace days a month. so obviously lots of other windows for other cars and trucks are made on that furnace during the month. I have stated in a thread on Team Camaro that its possible for later year production models to have all 8 (67) or 6 (68,69) different date codes on a car with all original glass. Our date codes were not "required" by GM to match their production dates.
So the date code serves two purposes.
So here is what happens. At the load end the furnace was hand loaded. Rack of glass is pushed up ready to load. The ticket on the rack is recorded date time and MONOGRAM and date code verified. Loader picks a piece of glass sets it on the monogram machine where the monogram is sandblasted onto the lite and loads it onto the front conveyor and does this 400-500 times and hour depending on part size. Glass goes through the furnace pressed quenched (tempered) run through a lighted inspection area Monogram verified again. Then picked off the end of the line by another inspector onto a size fixture checked and passed onto a packer who packs 165 into a rack or smaller parts 330 into a double rack. During this time the furnace operator twice an hour pulls a piece checks size and verifies the Monogram and date code again. Once every two hours the Quality assurance guy comes along pulls a piece checks size and verifies Monogram and date code again. After each rack is full the rack guy DATE STAMPS and signs a shipping ticket affixes it to the rack does it up and sets it aside. Every few hours the shift foreman comes along checks each rack for various things checks the Monogram and date code and signs the shipping ticket. The quality assurance guy also did this. 
  So that is a lot of Monogram and date code checks. Why?
 For GM it was so we could track quality problems right to the hour they occurred so if we were in a quality sort position we could from the time stamped on the shipping ticket backward and forward through other stamped racks to quarantine the glass for further inspection.
 For safety its a legal requirement for us to have the date code on it also for tracking purposes if there was an accident where someone is suing us because of glass failure (its been tried, but never successful that I know of)
 So yes the date codes are all there for a reason.
So could a March date coded backlite get into a late Feb build ?  Yes it could ! Very unlikely and improbable but it could and has happened.
Normative practice was at midnight of the last day of the month the old date monogram was removed and the next months date was put in and recorded.
 Go back to the 3 week supply statement and how much glass that can be run in a month. If the last "scheduled backlite" run on the furnace was mid feb. and  the next early march. After the mid feb run all leftover monograms would be destroyed and the Lab guy would start making the March ones. Well some unforeseen problem comes up and we have to get glass to GM toot sweet or shut the plant down (not a good thing) Emergency furnace changeover run a couple hundred backlites to keep them going. Oh problem no Feb Coded monograms. Because of all the checks we do as long as the glass is documented on all those reports plus the shift report and a report from our head of quality so it can be tracked back to actual day and hour of run on the furnace it is acceptable and legal.
  Did all this happen in Rossford that last week of February in 1969 ? there is no way of knowing unless a few more show up. All of the above I know because I did most of the jobs on a furnace that cam from Rossford  using all the same procedures that Rossford used.

 Next another fallacy ! We never ever shipped matched sets of date coded glass to GM. Glass is installed at very different areas of a car plant to try and track a set of glass to these areas would be impossible. Anyone with an early first week of the month build date more than likely has glass date coded the previous month, 2nd week you might get one of them dated the previous month. 3rd and 4th week builds probably have all that months coded glass. But a piece can still come from a previous month if it was set aside for repair and then repaired and packed into the next months run or even the month after run !
 
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on September 05, 2014, 03:49:24 PM
That's an interesting explanation of how it *might* have happened, Rick..  but I'm unaware of a final user ever requiring a 'date code' on such a part;  the date codes are ONLY for the use of the plant making the item, for the purpose of determining problems in their production and nothing else I'm aware of.

so a plant making new items (glass or ??) in mid February, and dating it March...  would seem to put it all out of whack?    Now, having said that, and realizing that glass dates are ONLY for the month and year..  perhaps a week or two 'variation' doesn't really matter in glass production?

Note:   On original Chevrolet cars, it is NOT unusual to see glass that varies by several months (earlier) on a car, but I personally have never seen an original glass dated AFTER a cars production.   That several month variation comes not from the variation in the supplier shipments, but generally from how the assembly plant handles their incoming inventory.. (as has been said many times before, 'it ain't bread'.. and doesn't need to be rotated FIFO...)..  :)
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: rick 67 on September 05, 2014, 05:23:47 PM
The date code is 99% for us. Its just if some defect comes up at GM or another Auto maker we supply for them to be able to set aside and contain the spill quickly before more get into cars (costs us a ton of money when that happens). So the two things they look at are the shipping date of the shipping ticket and the date code on the glass. Then we send guys there to sort or worse they hire an outside company. Either way shit rolls down hill.
No I was talking an emergency situation say 27th of feb we get a call from gm someone screwed up and we need glass asap or you will shut our plant down. We have a certain amount of time to get the glass there or the shutdown cost is billed to us. So you are talking big effin scramble. THIS DOES HAPPEN !! Monogram date is mainly for us, at that point GM could care less about a date code. So they put the first ten off in rack load it our plant van rushed to Oshawa where he can drive the thing right to the windshield station with minutes to spare for production on the 27th.  IT CAN AND DOES HAPPEN  not often but I have seen it. Now the stars have to be in alignment at the end of the month but yeah it can happen but its still very unlikely.
 Now here is something everyone should know. Parking lot hot day someone's backlite pops. Not as common nowadays as all backlites have a finished edge, Back in the day when the edge was just seamed with a wet 80 grit seaming belt it was very common. Tempered glass can break at any time hot or cold if it has an edge defect in it. So backlite pops right out in the parking lot of the factory and replacedthere or in transit and is replaced at  the dealer.

 Now along with the date code we also put "which run of the month it is" on the glass denoted by from one to 5 dots. Windshields are getting more complicated The jeep Liberty has 11 different part#'s off of the same glass along with heads up display "HUD", acoustic plastic rain sensors and combinations of them all.The Camaro with HUD and acoustic vinyl.
 All I am saying is its possible unlikely but possible and only for a very short run> Not a normal circumstance

 
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: rick 67 on September 05, 2014, 06:35:37 PM
 And lets add heated wipers and satellite antennae (onstar) to the mix of 11 and still the occasional windshield gets in the wrong rack (wrist slap BAD BAD Collingwood PILKINTON)
 So what we need is a few more 02D built cars with original march backlites to confirm if this may have happened. If it turns out there is only one then I would say doubtful !
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: firstgenaddict on September 05, 2014, 07:46:54 PM
I can only imagine what it would cost you (a company) to shut down the assembly line...
I had deals with in the packaging industry where it would cost me 2000/hour if I kept presses waiting for paperboard.
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: KurtS on September 06, 2014, 09:09:16 PM
We helicoptered parts from our plant to the assembly plant. Still cheaper than shutting them down....
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: rick 67 on September 06, 2014, 10:12:21 PM
Back in the day we pretty much supplied Oshawa car and truck plants in Ontario. Less than a 2 hour drive and Ste Therese in Quebec about 4 hours. Now we don't have much of that with Oshawa shutting down and Ste Therese gone. 7 car plants in Ontario all within 2 hours and we only have 2% of the business. Gee we even ship to Brazil ! Honda Allliston car and van plants are only 30 miles away and we have none of it. Apparently a Chinese company got the Civic contract and are building a glass plant in OHIO.
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: rick 67 on October 09, 2014, 12:24:19 AM
 Ok this should be fun !!! Sent the pics to the glass GURU in our plant who passed them onto who he considers the most knowledgeable glass guy around with 49 yep 49 years experience at Rossford and other plants. He says the windshields were DEFINATLY  REPLACED.  Shat R Proof never supplied 1 CAMARO OEM windshield for GM.
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: rick 67 on October 09, 2014, 12:27:37 AM
Back in the day we pretty much supplied Oshawa car and truck plants in Ontario. Less than a 2 hour drive and Ste Therese in Quebec about 4 hours. Now we don't have much of that with Oshawa shutting down and Ste Therese gone. 7 car plants in Ontario all within 2 hours and we only have 2% of the business. Gee we even ship to Brazil ! Honda Allliston car and van plants are only 30 miles away and we have none of it. Apparently a Chinese company got the Civic contract and are building a glass plant in OHIO.
    Chinese company has bought a former GM plant in Dayton Ohio. They have also bought a float plant. They will have the capacity to produce 3 million windshields a year with 800 workers !
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: x77-69z28 on October 09, 2014, 03:43:21 AM
James, sorry it took so long to get back to you. I can't get my camera to take a pic of the windshield. The numbers are as follows:
SHAT R PROOF
SHADED
SAFETY PLATE
R AG L56 ASIA
DOT-52 M19
Title: Re: Shat R Proof Front windshield with no DOT?
Post by: firstgenaddict on December 14, 2014, 04:23:10 PM
X77-69Z28 Thanks for your efforts however being a much later piece if glass I do not know that it is relevant.

Here are a few more photos showing a detail of the cloth type seal with the last one showing a series of numbers written by hand on the drivers inside top along the edge normally covered with adhesive.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-olYGXaMBfLk/VI22GjL6gsI/AAAAAAAAMzg/nZSskzSE8w0/s720/69SS_windshield_fabricseal.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5Vzy0ySwsLo/VI22HPCf2dI/AAAAAAAAMzo/iJrW_UXEfew/s512/69SS_windshield_logo_fabricseal.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-5Yh2AWb3cHI/VI22GaKPSzI/AAAAAAAAMzc/IvftOHO3nyU/s720/69SS_Windshield_marking_under_seal.jpg)