CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => Originality => Topic started by: Northernforce on September 12, 2013, 08:33:23 PM

Title: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: Northernforce on September 12, 2013, 08:33:23 PM
Did all the 69Z28 cars have the flat bottom cowl induction ait breathers ?I know the ridge bottom ones were service replacement-Just curious if they had  switched anytime -thanks for any input!
Dave
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: 69pace on September 12, 2013, 10:50:17 PM
Dave - flat for Camaro production. 70 Chevelle had ridges and so do the reproductions. Here is a great thread over at TC to reference http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=54696

Brian
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: Charley on September 12, 2013, 11:48:44 PM
I think there are examples of late 69 Camaro's without the flat bottom.
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: 69Z28 on September 13, 2013, 12:05:03 AM
I think there are examples of late 69 Camaro's without the flat bottom.


That was impression I got as well. I have all the GM parts for the ZL2 set up on my Z except the breather so my wife got me a repro from Ricks in 2001 for xmas and it has the ridge on the bottom. I thought I heard somewhere that the repro's where a copy of the late 69 model, but that info was from 12 years ago. I would like to get a flat bottom breather but they are hard to come by and very expensive from what I have seen.
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on September 13, 2013, 01:09:24 AM
Dave - flat for Camaro production. 70 Chevelle had ridges and so do the reproductions. Here is a great thread over at TC to reference http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=54696
Brian
There are recent reproductions that are 'advertised' as 'flat bottoms'..... although I haven't seen them..
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: 69pace on September 13, 2013, 02:31:21 AM
There has always been unconfirmed speculation and theories by many that late August, September and November production end Camaro builds at Norwood were forced to adopt the Chevelle ridged bottom air cleaner base as the stocks of the Camaro flat bottom design were exhausted. Examples put forward as factory originals have not always survived testing and several have turned out to be Chevrolet service replacements which had the Chevelle ridge design after 1970 regardless of application and part numbers. Many "original" were added after factory as the ducted hood became widely popular as an aftermarket speed part and found its way onto 68, and 67 models. Several mid and late September 1969 Camaro builds still have flat bottoms. Anything is possible. We will never know for sure.
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: z28z11 on September 13, 2013, 02:49:43 AM
I think there are examples of late 69 Camaro's without the flat bottom.

I would like to get a flat bottom breather but they are hard to come by and very expensive from what I have seen.

Parts Place has them on sale now - part # CW10062Z, about $169.00 if I remember correctly. Even features the "notch" on the air snout, which (previously) was always a great way to tell the difference in repops and original ZL2's. My NOS 6485891 has the notch, but is a late production with the ridged bottom. I'll post a pic when I can dig it out -

Regards,
Steve
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: paceme on September 13, 2013, 03:06:18 AM
I have inspected and certified several survivor late build 69Z's Sept & Oct and they have had the ridged bottom. Again this is from first hand experience (not speculation), so based on what I have seen yes the ridged bottom was used/ introduced in late July-early Aug.

Gary (69Z28-RS), I'm curious if you Sept built Z has a ridged bottom, because mine does.
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on September 13, 2013, 04:12:00 AM
Steve,

mine has a flat bottom....  09C build.
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: BULLITT65 on September 13, 2013, 05:26:48 AM
Can someone post a picture of what a flat bottom is and a example of a rigid please. ty
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on September 13, 2013, 01:44:49 PM
Austin.. (just for you)..  :)

Attached below are a couple of photos of my original cowl air cleaner (09C car - sept '69).
-maybe someone else can post a photo of an original 'seamed' bottom' air cleaner??
(aren't todays digital cameras convenient???)  :)
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: z28z11 on September 13, 2013, 03:42:52 PM
Ask and ye shall receive -

Note "4 spot" flame arrestor - was in the box when I bought it 25 years ago, at least - 

Regards,
Steve
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: BULLITT65 on September 13, 2013, 04:01:22 PM
so the second design had a rib in the bottom?
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on September 13, 2013, 05:18:03 PM
Steve,

Can you take a photo of the full bottom from the bottom?  As a comparison to the flat bottom?
PS.  What did you mean by '4 spot' flame arrester?   first time I've heard that term....
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: z28z11 on September 14, 2013, 02:16:24 AM
Steve,

Can you take a photo of the full bottom from the bottom?  As a comparison to the flat bottom?
PS.  What did you mean by '4 spot' flame arrester?   first time I've heard that term....

Gary,

   Be glad to get it back out tomorrow for another shot. "4 spot" refers to 4 dimples evident in the top of the flame arrestor screen - NOS and originals have them, repops don't, as many as I've ever seen. I'll get a better pic of that , too -

Regards,
Steve
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: z28z11 on September 14, 2013, 02:23:33 AM
Outlined in the attached pic, but I'll get a better contrast tomorrow in daylight. You can at least see the depressions in the red circles; what function they served is debateable (maybe to help mount the screen onto the pipe ?).

Regards,
Steve
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: Northernforce on September 14, 2013, 02:57:52 AM
Thanks everyone for your input-the  4 dimple flame arrestors also had "GM" stamped on them-(although it wwas hard to read)I have a couple NOS ones -boxes dated 1982 -if anyone is looking for one!
Dave
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: z28z11 on September 14, 2013, 06:35:41 PM
Steve,

Can you take a photo of the full bottom from the bottom?  As a comparison to the flat bottom?
PS.  What did you mean by '4 spot' flame arrester?   first time I've heard that term....

Gary,

   Here's your pics. One thing I also noticed when I took a good close look at the cleaner, my NOS 6485891 is a lot worse in finish and appearance than the one I just finished and put on line to sell, one of my L48 "resto creations". I was worried about paint finish and a couple of small blems: it looks much better than my NOS example - I don't feel so bad about letting this one go. Take a glance at it when you have a minute -

Regards,
Steve

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171124384456?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: z28z11 on September 14, 2013, 06:37:32 PM
Pics -
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on September 15, 2013, 03:27:16 AM
Thanks Steve,  That should give everyone a good comparison between 'flat bottom' and 'seamed bottom'.
Question:  is the seam on yours welded all the way around?  or ?
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: z28z11 on September 15, 2013, 03:24:58 PM
Gary,

   No seams that I can determine - the stamping was apparently done in one draw, and then progressively formed in secondary operations including the snout (and hose clamps on auto air cleaners) welding. There are not any other welded areas on these that I have ever been able to find. Draw die evidence includes the "ribs" you see around the coil clearance recess area - vertical lines as a result of deformation (wrinkling) in that operation - most cleaners usually have a pattern all the way around the can where the metal is deformed during the drawing. I have to base all of this on the second designs; the only flat bottom ZL2 cleaner I have examined was during a quick inspection of an X33, March car, P-O-P, that was being shipped to Montana during an owner's move. Looked like your cleaner, exactly. Wish I had been able to take pics -

Regards,
Steve
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on September 15, 2013, 04:25:46 PM
Yes, mine was a single piece of metal, stamped out, and has all the typical deformations from such an operation, but the 'seam' on the bottom of yours I thought was a joint?  a welded joint?   If not, then what is it?
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: z28z11 on September 15, 2013, 04:42:51 PM
It is a stamped detail that fits the bottom of the element. It's not welded or folded, just stepped. The recess in the top/bottom of the element fits right in it to seal it. Can is smooth on the reverse side - it would have been a piece of work to finish it that way if it was welded (took me more than several hours to smooth, prime and finish details on the L48 cleaner I just finished for eBay - I doubt the Delco division would have ever put that much intensive labor into one).

Regards,
Steve
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: BULLITT65 on September 15, 2013, 06:58:17 PM
thanks for all the detail, and pictures. So, since they are reproducing the stepped version can you tell them apart?
Title: Re: Did all 69Z28 cowl induction breathers have a flat bottom ?
Post by: z28z11 on September 16, 2013, 03:37:52 AM
They look very similar. Pretty obvious that they modeled the repros from the second design - the details are there, the metal thickness is close, but the paint on most is just a little too glossy. I haven't been able to get close enough to one of the repro flat bottom cleaners to judge them, but the pics look spot on. At least someone finally put the notches on the air snorkels to really get the details more correct.

I will use my NOS 6485891 cleaner when I restore my X77 - I've had it too long to think about sending it down the pike or replacing it with a repro - 

Regards,
Steve