CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Originality => Topic started by: sbmiano on August 21, 2013, 04:17:23 PM
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Is the bell housing on a 1969 z completely painted orange or just overspray on the top?
If anyone has pix that would be great. Thanks
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when they painted the engine, the bell housing was attached, but since it was an aluminum part, and hidden from view of the buyer, they didn't have a specification to paint it.. so generally it only got overspray adjacent to the engine, haphazardly.. but again, since it was done by humans, there are big variations from engine to engine..
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thanks for the input
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FYI he inspection plate that goes on the bottom of the bell housing should be orange as well.
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Scott Here is a picture of a car at the Nationals last year that was judged to be correct..Scoop
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thats surprising, my original one has nowhere near that much orange paint on it, just a little overspray on the sides and top. Mine does have a large yellow crayon mark on the right side it though, maybe an inspection mark of some sort. You may want to look at some more cars built closer to when yours rolled off the line to be sure you got it right
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the photo posted by Scoop was obviously of a restored car, where 'pretty' was the primary goal. Originally, the factory paid NO attention to 'pretty' when they painted the engine. The paint around the edges of the bellhousing was 'incidental' only, and not intentional, thus was not completely painted, although, again, there were variations depending on whose hand was holding the paint gun.
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The picture I posted was from a restored car which is what Scott has. I am posting a picture of a survivor car from the Nationals from last year also. I know the factory did not paint them all the same as they were done by hand and by different operators etc. Just trying to let Scott know how they are judging at the Nationals where he will be going back to. Scoop
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I posted many photos just a couple of months ago about this topic. It appears that most were painted along with the fly wheel shield. I think one of the issues that throws many off about the paint process is that there was not good adhesion with the paint on the bell housing so one that may look like it was barely painted could have been fully painted Chevrolet orange, but all these years later, the paint may have come off in many areas. We had several nice original cars in the "Legend Survivor" class at the Camaro Nationals this past June and I posted photos.
Jerry
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I think this is one of the threads Jerry was talking about.
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10959.msg85383#msg85383
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Another shot of a bellhousing from a 68 L78
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/superslow/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20396%20Camaro/photo9_zps0c297937.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/superslow/media/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20396%20Camaro/photo9_zps0c297937.jpg.html)
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Here's my original 396 bell housing again, all Chevy orange.
Jerry
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thats surprising, my original one has nowhere near that much orange paint on it, just a little overspray on the sides and top. Mine does have a large yellow crayon mark on the right side it though, maybe an inspection mark of some sort. You may want to look at some more cars built closer to when yours rolled off the line to be sure you got it right
And neither did mine! Every example I have looked at has not had the entire bell housing painted. I just asked another NCRS C2 judge at Corvette Carlisle who has inspected many survivor cars (especially 67's) and he stated the amount varies greatly but entire coverage is rare. Here is a picture of mine and it had possibly the same yellow crayon mark as aforementioned. And that yellow crayon mark has been seen on other bell housings as well. Ken at Lucas Restorations had a picture in his website of a car (believe it was a 68) they had restored and the before picture showed the almost exact looking yellow crayon mark in the same location with lots of bare aluminum showing and then the restored picture showed all orange paint. In a past thread Dave at "Camaro Specialities" wrote "Was your bellhousing really all painted orange upon teardown? Most we come across and refinish just get oversprayed. Some get more than others, but I've only seen completely painted bellhousings on restored cars. Just like the dipstick tube, most people paint them when they are usually natural."
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_4664.jpg) (http://s192.photobucket.com/user/1-2-b-67L89/media/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_4664.jpg.html)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_4665.jpg) (http://s192.photobucket.com/user/1-2-b-67L89/media/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_4665.jpg.html)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_4662.jpg) (http://s192.photobucket.com/user/1-2-b-67L89/media/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_4662.jpg.html)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_4663.jpg) (http://s192.photobucket.com/user/1-2-b-67L89/media/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_4663.jpg.html)
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MOST restored cars are what we used to refer to as 'over restored', ie made prettier than when Chevrolet did it... that's especially true when the judging organization(s) rules allow it without point deductions. When I've judged at national shows in other organizations, we deducted for 'over restored' items or areas. examples were: bc/cc paint where lacquer was used originally (and yes, I dont' want to get into another argument/discussion over the reasons for that here).. :), buffed or polished paint where factory only 'sprayed it and forgot it'.. or gloss paint where factory used semi-gloss or semi-flat...
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Here is a semi survivor Z28 on Ebay with what looks like a partially painted bellhousing.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28-s-Match-302-Survivor-44K-Mies-Barn-Find-Original-VGC-/290964368468?ss=&forcev4exp=true
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Attached is a reduced size photo from the ebay auction Charley referenced. I've extracted it and reduced it's size a little for displaying here. The residual paint on this bellhousing is consistent with unrestored aluminum bellhousings I've removed from Chevrolets over the years. The amount of coverage of the factory paint varied but I've personally never found one that indicated complete coverage of the bellhousing from the factory.
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I am kinda surprised no one has posted this picture.
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Those look like big blocks, so that must be the Tonawonda plant, hi perf small blocks are built at Flint. It would be very interesting if someone has some GM or Chevrolet specification document which describes how the plant workers were supposed to paint the engines. That would resolve the question.
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It coyld be tonawanda or one of the car plants & their staging area for the engines. Corvette plant still uses a very similar system for the assembly line. Also looks like diffs in the far right of pic.??.. Kinda hard to tell.
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I'll post these again here. Taken in the Legend Survivor class at the Camaro Nats this past June. Two untouched cars. The paint adhesion problem is clear in these photos but it appears that the whole housing was painted when these cars were assembled.
Jerry
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More pix, different car
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And lastly,
Jerry
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Neither of the above pics indicates to me that the bellhousings were completely painted but I did notice orange overspray on both of the clutch forks.
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Neither of the above pics indicates to me that the bellhousings were completely painted but I did notice orange overspray on both of the clutch forks.
But they look more painted than less, which I believe is the point.
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some apparently do.. and some don't.. :)
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Mine was replaced with a Lakewood in the early seventies , and remained in storage. Still presents with min amount of orange ( like all the rest of the pics) I'm guessing an adhesion issue.
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<<I am kinda surprised no one has posted this picture.>>
I've posted that photo many times in previous bellhousing painting discussions here, on Corvette Forum, and on the NCRS Tech board; on that particular day, Tonawanda was painting with pretty full coverage.
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<<I am kinda surprised no one has posted this picture.>>
I've posted that photo many times in previous bellhousing painting discussions here, on Corvette Forum, and on the NCRS Tech board; on that particular day, Tonawanda was painting with pretty full coverage.
So how is your bell housing painted John on your 69Z? By the way, thought corvette Carlisle was off this year, but just myho........
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<<I am kinda surprised no one has posted this picture.>>
I've posted that photo many times in previous bellhousing painting discussions here, on Corvette Forum, and on the NCRS Tech board; on that particular day, Tonawanda was painting with pretty full coverage.
So how is your bell housing painted John on your 69Z?
Looks a lot like Jerry's photo in reply #19 above.
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FWIW, most of the original paint ones that I remember on cars from the 70s and 80s seemed to have full or nearly full coverage. The adhesion issue varied and if the car was ever driven in the winter with salt on the roads that seemed to make it worse.
I remember a 69 Impala that an older lady owned. She mainly drove it just on Sundays (no kidding) and never in the rain. That was a very nice old original car with low miles. Bellhousing on that car had full coverage.