CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Restoration => Topic started by: Rufcar on April 11, 2013, 10:03:19 PM
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1969 I see many camoros where the firewall black runs along the top of th cowl and then back to under the windshield in the fender corner tops and others where its all the body color. Which is correct?
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Top of cowl should be body color and if its a Z28 should have hood stripe color overspray on top of the body color. Front face of cowl should be black on all cars, and the break line is right at the fillet where the cowl face breaks over to the top panel, Firewall will have body color under the firewall blackout paint as the blackout is applied last. A hand held mask was usually used to protect the body color on top of the cowl, so the match line can vary a bit.
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Mark this is a ss with a stripe you got a pic please? Im a rolls/bentley judge and we have difinative edges on this area but they vary signifigenly per model. Tkx jim
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From member OAKLYSS. Is this a good example?
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The top of the cowl tag should not have body color overspray on it. The entire car body was painted body color, and then the firewall was blacked out. That car has had the body color repsrayed, but not the firewall. The firewall/body color line looks good other than the fact its body color over black instead of black over body color.
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That makes perfect sence. What about the corner area where cowl meets fender everyone I have seen was black?
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Here's the post I nabbed the pic from...says it's original paint.
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10038.0
The top of the cowl tag should not have body color overspray on it. The entire car body was painted body color, and then the firewall was blacked out. That car has had the body color repsrayed, but not the firewall. The firewall/body color line looks good other than the fact its body color over black instead of black over body color.
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From the original paint cars I have seen the firewall blackout must have been painted from lower angle upward where the cowl was painted from above. So that lower edges of the trim tag have more black paint and upper edges more body color. The black paint line across the cowl varied greatly. Here is how I replicated it. George
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Thanks George, thats pretty much how it is in most cars I have owned with small changes to the edges. From production point it makes sense too. My confusion came in from looking at all the ebay cars and most have the black into the upper fender corners! Even the high end so called ;correct" cars. Being a rolls bentley judge on alot of coachbuilt cars I always need to understsnd what they had in mind.
My car was built lemans blue but was changed to hugger orange many ys,ago. The inside of y cowl was all flat black that I sanded out and have painted the HO. I di not want the correct color but I want my color and parts done cirrectly. In Rolls circles we dont care about original paint but we care that its done properly and high quailty. Jim
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Here is a pic of mine. The black firewall paint has started to wear and you can see how the 57 Fathom Green is underneath. I know this is an original because I found a VERY faint T marking on the firewall that almost cannot be seen.
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To give you an idea of how the paint transition varies - I've seen some tags with body color, some blacked out.
Generally, they are blacked out.
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Here is a picture from my unrestored 67 4B LOS (with original grime) :D
Note the blackout didn't make it to the top.
Mike
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Mickey, I had to look for mine with different lights and differing angles to get a faint photo of my T & B stamp, but I found some of it. Your right side stamps may be preserved under the AC housing, that is where I found them. Here are my stamps in the same area as yours. Also something interesting our cars were built weeks apart but body sequence numbers are 7951 apart. George
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As a newbie here what significiance are those body stamp letter/numbers?
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The best thing to do is read the assembly line procedure as written by John Z. In the Fisher Body part of the assembly, John explains the use of the "B, P, & T" stamps.
Here is the link to the assembly process.....http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml (http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml)
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Some of the darker colored cars, look like they really got shortchanged on the cowl blackout. My white car has a nice defined line across the top edge of the cowl. like the Hurrer orange car, but no signs of white on the top of the cowl tag, or any upper edges on the firewall.
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The top of the cowl tag should not have body color overspray on it. The entire car body was painted body color, and then the firewall was blacked out. That car has had the body color repsrayed, but not the firewall. The firewall/body color line looks good other than the fact its body color over black instead of black over body color.
No, Mark, it IS original paint. Not resprayed! You can clearly see the backout is over the orange and varies side to side. My paint is just in really excellent condition:
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r206/OAKLYSS/69%20SS%20detail%20shots/firewall.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/OAKLYSS/media/69%20SS%20detail%20shots/firewall.jpg.html)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r206/OAKLYSS/69%20SS%20detail%20shots/69firewall.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/OAKLYSS/media/69%20SS%20detail%20shots/69firewall.jpg.html)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r206/OAKLYSS/69%20SS%20detail%20shots/passfirewall.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/OAKLYSS/media/69%20SS%20detail%20shots/passfirewall.jpg.html)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r206/OAKLYSS/69%20SS%20detail%20shots/driverfirewall.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/OAKLYSS/media/69%20SS%20detail%20shots/driverfirewall.jpg.html)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r206/OAKLYSS/69%20SS%20detail%20shots/69cowl1.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/OAKLYSS/media/69%20SS%20detail%20shots/69cowl1.jpg.html)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r206/OAKLYSS/69%20SS%20detail%20shots/69cowl.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/OAKLYSS/media/69%20SS%20detail%20shots/69cowl.jpg.html)
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So if the firewall blackout is up that high then it is safe to assume there will be black over-spray in the cowl where the wiper motor mechanics are?
Mike
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I agree - I've seen the top edges of tags with body color on them before.
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So if the firewall blackout is up that high then it is safe to assume there will be black over-spray in the cowl where the wiper motor mechanics are?
Mike
No, there was a shield used to keep the overspray off the top of the cowl. GM paint specifications call for blackout to be applied down in those wire well, but it was hardly, if ever done. My well is orange overspray from the cowl grill geting sprayed orange for the stripes, there was another mask placed over the top of the cowl so the areas under the cowl grilles could be sprayed stripe color, before the firewall blackout was applied, but that is only seen on Z28's , Z10's and Z11's.
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And the firewall on my VN 04B was painted a dark Fathom green. Go figure. Note the "23' original factory marking on the driver side cowl section. The car is Cortez Silver while the firewall is metallic green - painted by the factory.
(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t478/jwlittooy/Engine%20Bay%20-%20When%20Purchased/2165747885.jpg) (http://s1061.photobucket.com/user/jwlittooy/media/Engine%20Bay%20-%20When%20Purchased/2165747885.jpg.html)
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Interesting! I didn't think the spray guns went down that far in front of the bulkhead but seeing your picture it looks like it did.
Mike
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Somebody either grabbed the wrong color gun during the blackout operations. or maybe they were momentarily out of black. The line does not stop for something like that.
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Agree. I've seen a few cars other VN cars built around the same time and they also had green firewalls. As you point out, my guess is they ran out of black paint and picked something close to keep the line running.
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You're right....I see what you mean. I didn't realize the firewall color was different from the main body color.
Using whatever was available sure makes sense.
Mike
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F.Y.I In Rolls Royce production when they ran out of anything they used the next thing which often was even a different manufacture. So today you dont know what even is or was the correct part as no numbers or finishes or parts ever matched! In thr run of Silver Shadows Ones 1965 to 1976 for instance they produced about 28,000 cars and theres at least 4 different EGR systems, maybe more of the cruise control locations and types and on and on. At least with GM you have some type of standardazation! I love these discussions it helps us all greatly.