CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: sdkar on August 12, 2006, 01:11:35 AM
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It's official. GM announced that it will be making the Camaro.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/search/content/shared-gen/ap/Finance_General/GM_Camaro.html
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See also:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1155246610543&call_pageid=968350072197&col=969048863851
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Just curious what everyone thinks: Is this new version preferable to a more retro '69? I'm not sure I'm crazy about the new modernistic styling. I'm probably just getting old and nostalgic, but I would have definitely had more of an interest in something that looks more like a 69; like the new mustangs that are out. Am I nuts??
Jimmy V
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As Yogi Berra said "It's deja vu all over again!"
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.......and "it ain't over 'til its over."
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Just my 2 cents. Please make the car look more like the first gen. I'm sure the concept would be a great runner, but if it is to compete with the Mustang and perhaps the new Challenger, it needs to bring back the nostalgic look of the originals. The way it looks now, it does not appear to be playing in the same sand box. :'(
Kris
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Have to agree with wtexz10, not even close. Actually a major disappontment to me. I don't see anything that remotely reminds me of the 1st, 2nd or even 3rd generation Camaros.
dab67
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The way I heard it, Chevrolet started with the retro look, but then decided to pursue this more modernistic approach instead.
I know I was disappointed. The company that brought us the Tri-Fives, Corvette, Camaro, Etc. seems to be gone. There is really nothing Chevrolet makes today that appeals to me. Perhaps others feeling the same would explain the skyrocketing prices on the first generation Camaros? Or it's just baby boomer nostalgia?
Jimmy V
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I think we all are sharing the same sentiment. Except for minor styling carry over (69 side fake side louvers, console mounted gages, 68 "looking" instrument cluster), not much else reminds me of the 1st gen. In my mind, the front end is the weak link. Back end is a much more pleasing design (to me).
Problem is that those that brought us the tri 5 chevys, 1st gen Camaros, etc are long gone, and a different breed of designer is behind the wheel. Seems like they are trying to have their cake and eat it too by appealing both to those that grew up with 1st gen Camaros and the current youth market. They aren't the same.
It will be interesting to see if they can sell 100,000 Camaros / year. I personally believe that Chevy is off target much in the same way that Ford was with the revival of the Thunderbird. It was too new and not enought old. They learned and took that learning to the Mustang. Ford has the right idea with the Mustang. Update it, but definitely have it carry the look of the late '60's.
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Does anybody know what kind of market research GM did? What market are they after?
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I think we all are sharing the same sentiment. Except for minor styling carry over (69 side fake side louvers, console mounted gages, 68 "looking" instrument cluster), not much else reminds me of the 1st gen. In my mind, the front end is the weak link. Back end is a much more pleasing design (to me).
Problem is that those that brought us the tri 5 chevys, 1st gen Camaros, etc are long gone, and a different breed of designer is behind the wheel. Seems like they are trying to have their cake and eat it too by appealing both to those that grew up with 1st gen Camaros and the current youth market. They aren't the same.
It will be interesting to see if they can sell 100,000 Camaros / year. I personally believe that Chevy is off target much in the same way that Ford was with the revival of the Thunderbird. It was too new and not enought old. They learned and took that learning to the Mustang. Ford has the right idea with the Mustang. Update it, but definitely have it carry the look of the late '60's.
AMEN:
Couldn't have stated it better myself - but I'll try...
It's too bad but I think this should be the signal to all (especially after everyone else is obviously able to get it) that the GM we all apparently fondly remember from the late fifties through to the early seventies for styling and sensing what their buying public wanted, is dead and gone.
Just because we in this forum are generally first generation fans doesn't mean we have a licence to think we know that everyone generally would have preferred a more retro styled Camaro, as many comments in this forum have shown since the concept cars inception - but I do feel we all share the sense that GM doesn't even care about what we think - and so this model will be pushed ahead because 'they think they know us better than we know ourselves - as to just what we need and want'...
I said it before and will again - this will be a marginally accepted platform which due to GM's inability to listen to their customer and fan input will deal it a premature death. It will be overpriced and optioned to enable only those prospective buyers with very deep pockets the opportunity to experience a true GM high performance car again, Corvette excepted - but how many of us over the years have chosen to buy Camaros even as we lusted for the performance that a Corvete would have provided - just because of price considerations.
Ford and Chrysler have been able to fell the pulse of their buyers, but GM doesn't apparently even care to try, and this new Camaro will only be another nail in the coffin unfortunately! IMHO - Randy
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Wow!!!!!! Some very heavy heavy stuff from quite a few. Revolution!!!!!!!!!! Just kidding. A Classic classic example of how GM has or better yet has not done their homework is to look at the GTO!
They had a golden opportunity to leap frog everyone when the re-introduced the "goat" But instead they just filled a void by putting a V8 in something that could not even sell overseas.
Bummer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
dab67
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On another subject...... how do I get a pic of my car like the thumb nails of others I'm seeing? Tried "downloading my pic" in my profile, bur it didn't seem to work. Maybe my file too large?? What's the secret?
Jimmy V
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jd;
lakeholme is the "guru" of explaining how to post a thumbnail. contact him.
dab67
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Jimmy V,
Probabaly your file is too large. Take it down to 65 x 65 pixels and it should work. BTW, many car pictures are wider than they are tall. So, it may have to be smaller than 65 X 65 to work (look right). For example, mine turned out 63 X 47 --for it to look like I wanted.
Good luck!
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Back to the thread..........
In general, I am sadly disappointed with GM lately. I am also unable to find any appeal with the offerings of Chevrolet. I just don't think anyone there gets it. Their prices are out of touch and only the corvette has managed to maintain the theme that was originally intended. I think it undercuts the status of the Camaro when the concept has been to detune last years 'vette model and install a version of the drivetrain in the Camaro, then selling it at a price that is well below that of a 'vette just to try and sell more Camaros. This killed the Camaro, and now, along comes a stealth fighter version that will somehow revive sales and resurrect the pony car, the SCCA track burner. The 'vette was a purpose designed sports car with exotic styling and the newest technology and that has been maintained. I don't think a Camaro is a fighter plane or whatever the concept is supposed to be. What happened to an affordable curve Hugger, Pace Car, Muscle Car, no I’m not asking for a factory sponsored trunk load of secret racing parts, just be who you are, something pretty darn tough to say the least. 1st gen Camaros were the sexiest thing on the road and early and late 2nd gen cars weren't too shabby either. I’ve owned several F-bodies over the years I've owned some desirable year models and a couple not so desirable. This one I don't desire to own at all. If GM wants to get off the ropes they will have to do better than this.......It reminds me when I was 16 a guy seriously expected me to trade him even, my 350, Holley four barrel, posi rear axle, Blackjack headers, Weiand intake sportin' '77 T/A for his rusted, synchronizers gone it the transmission, lime green Gremlin......I wonder if this guy works for GM.........
:(
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Hard to create real American muscle when it is being designed in Australia and built in Canada. When you get right down to it - it isn't an American car at all. As Vertigoshadow1 very eloquently stated the fact above: "I just don't think anyone there (Chevrolet/GM) gets it".
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Looks like there is a dealer auctioning off the right to buy the first new Camaros. The first one sold for $10,000:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300016975787
There is a new one there:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300021042264
Per the auction: THIS AUCTION IS FOR THE AMOUNT OVER THE LISTED MSRP OF THE VEHICLE AT TIME OF PURCHASE. (no amounts have been released for the vehicle from GM)
I am pretty sure GM would not be too happy with this dealer (http://www.garymillerchevroletbuick.com). Isn't this another form of scalping?
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GM should learn a lesson from Harley Davidson. When HD was on the ropes and came ever so close to shutting down, once they got some financial backing from Wall Street, Willie G. and his pals put on their leathers and went to Biker Rally after Biker Rally and formed what is now H.O.G. (Harley Owners Group) and met with many of the actual bikers to better understand what the actual bikers wanted in their motorcycles. Then they set about designing and building good quality motorcycles that the people who rode them actually wanted. After some help from the government in the form of tarrifs on the rice burners from Japan, HD started seeing great sales and a return of owner loyalty. They eventually went to the government and ASKED, yes asked, the government to remove the tarrifs on the Japanese motorcycles because they knew they had turned the corner. For those of us who ride, we know there is nothing like riding a good Harley, and we are as fiercely loyal to them as we are the 1st gen Camaros. The proof is in the stock performance of HD over the last 15 years. Now look at all the bike mfgs trying to copy the Harley with their version of the V Twin. While they make a good quality bike for the most part, and they are less expensive than the Harley, people spend more money and are willing to go on waiting lists to get their rides because the others just aren't a Harley.
Has anyone seen a GM rep that has design input at the corporate level at any car show, cruise in or club meeting asking us what we wanted in a new Camaro? I am just a newbie and may be mis-informed but I would be surprised if that has happened. Yet, the CEO of GM and President of Chevrolet and the other higher level decision makers make how many millions each year because they are so smart? Maybe a taste of humble pie is needed there. Unfortunately that piece of pie may be the down fall of what was once a great company with fierce owner loyalty just like HD. A look at some of the entries in this thread show people talking good about Mustangs. That is definitely the car lover coming out in us, but who would have thunk it, Camaro owners talking good about Mustangs :-\ :D
I wonder if any GM marketing types or managers and decision makers even monitor this site to get input? Geez, that way they wouldn't even have to take their ties off and put their martinis down, and definitely wouldn't have to get grease under their well manicured fingernails, or horror pf horrors, actually have to talk to a "Commoner". Too bad it has come to this. The proof is in the pudding. My grocery getter is a Toyota Avalon. It is a great car and has 140,000 miles on it. I intend to drive it to 250,000 just so I can pay for my 1968 RS SS. If GM offered a comparable car in quality and price I would gladly drive that, but sadly they just do not have such a beast.
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Actually, dealers selling "hard to get" new models far above the list price is nothing new. It's been around for decades. The Ebay bid approach may be a new wrinkle, but paying a high price for the first one(s) is and has been common practice.
What surprises me is the $10,000 bid!!! Contrary to the general opinion we keep expressing, there must be somebody out there who is excited about the new Camaro and willing to pay.
GM was a "johnny come lately" with the Camaro to GTOs and Mustangs. If you go back and read about the First Generation in car magazines, etc. you will find some less than sterling reviews. Motor Trends Car of the Year in 1967 was the Cougar. (The European Car of the Year in 67 was the Fiat 124?!?) Yet, the Camaro became the car we love and they sold a lot of them! (Even though it took several years to catch up with the Mustang.)
GM executives are getting on the band wagon. The CEOs -Wagoner and Lutz have been talking to the press. There have been events in August where they were out talking. As to the Internet, GM has their own blogs. Lutz quotes J.D. Powers when it comes to the why and what of the new Camaro. Whoever they are talking to is (gasp) excited about the possibilites.
Trust me, I'm not a current GM fan myself. (Yes, I drive a Toyota, too! A Celica... and I'm not thrilled with Toyota doing away with all their "real sportscars"!) What I hope is that history repeats itself! I bought a 68 Camaro, thirty-some years later. I hope my granddaughter buys a classic Camaro in 2040 --even if it's solar powered!