CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Restoration => Topic started by: woodsman1172 on March 10, 2013, 10:16:01 AM
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While I appreciate the benefits of BC/CC paint systems, I don't really like the deep, glassy appearance, and would rather paint my car with a single stage paint. However, my car is Cortez Silver, and the last time I painted a metallic color in single stage, I had a lot of trouble laying down even coats. Should I just bite the bullet and go with the modern paint systems, or are there any old school tips and techniques that would help me get a uniform metallic finish with single stage?
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Thin coats.
I am no expert, but painted a Cortez silver Z in the fall of 1971 and it came out fine. The guy I was working for just advised to go with lots of thin coats. Too heavy and the metallic will sag.
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You need to keep the paint stirred well too so you get all your metallic alike in each coat cause that stuff will settle pretty quick. I don't know about thin coats but I did paint with a little wider pattern so you don't get streaks in overlap.
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A stirring cup is almost a requirement when shooting paints with heavy metal flake.
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Thanks for the tips guys!
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Hey Guys. My 69Z is Cortez Silver as well and has BC/CC that was applied in 1987. Looks ok for a driver, but when it's time to repaint it my plan is to have it done the original factory way. The car has about 3 layers of paint as near as I can tell but the door jambs and trunk area still have the original factory paint in those areas. As far as paint goes I don't think you can get the original paint made up right? What would be a good substitute? Enamel? or is that what 'WAS' original. A friend has the camera that takes pics of paint to get the right colors when he paints. What do you think? Should it be done that way?
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From 1957 thru the late 70's (at least) Chevrolet painted their cars acrylic lacquer. Prior to '57, they used an even softer nitrocellulose lacquer. No clear coats were used over this paint in the factory, but all the cars received buffing after painit. You can still purchase acrylic lacquers in some places I believe although it's said that the formulations are different than in '69? If your car were not metallic, you could use a single stage urethane, and sand/buff it, and achieve a finish similar to lacquer, but it would be a much better paint job. It's said that metallic colors are more difficult to achieve an even metallic finish using single stage?
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Really something to think about isn't it? Durability is what you want in a paint covering as well as a decent shine. I for one am not too worried about seeing what's happening a block away in my paint job. I suppose there are ways to paint a car to make it look factory. I kind of like the idea that you can slide your fingers across the stripe edges and feel it instead of having them buried in the clear coat. The BC/CC really is way too much if you want a car to look factory in my opinion. Plus the cars weren't exactly perfect when they left the factory like they are restored to the ninth degree today. I went and looked at a 67 RS, 327/210 auto, paint code O-2. It was Carolina Blue, no BC/CC, just single stage and it looked great without the super glossy shine. Appeared way more appealing to look at.
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I'm old enough to remember how they looked *new*.. and that is what I like.. BC/CC is WAY too 'plastic-iky' looking for me.. :) Fortunately, my car has mostly original paint but there is a bit of touch I need to do, and the hood needs to be repainted, which I wil do in lacquer. If I were to repaint the total car, I'd use single stage and sand/rub/buff it to a lacquer like finish... (that's perfection in my eyes).. :)
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I agree w/ 69Z28-RS and I think we have talked about this before. The original paint was lacquer and looks line a pretty piece of metal while the BC/CC paint jobs look like an overly shiny and deep piece of plastic. TCP Global has an affordable lacquer I believe it's called restoration shop a round $50/qt and $175/gal (they also have name brand it was around $900/gal) I think I'll try the inexpensive stuff. I haven't painted any thing lacquer for 25+ years. Painting metallic colors is tricky especially light colors because they don't have as much pigment and it's easy to want to put on too much to quick. With a light color make sure to use a light color primer/sealer (grey for silver) probably 3-4 wet coats tack time between. I always alternate between up and down strokes and side to side coats to help eliminate the dreaded zebra striping. If you put a coat on too soon the solvents will soften the last coat and cause a sag (sometimes it's just a sap in the metallic) but still mot good. When the last coat is still quite wet turn your air pressure up and stand back like an arms length and "mist" the car. Use back and forth circular motions not directly at the surface let the paint fall onto the surface kinda like snow. this sets the metal flake in different directions instead of all laying flat. Be careful though too much or if your last coat is not wet enough you will end up w/ dry spots (using a slower reducer helps) PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. take off your deck lid and hood and perfect you technique on the under side of these first. Also TCP sells a high perf clear i or 2 wet coats of this will give you something to buff so you ate not buffing into your metallic. Remember lacquers don't have a lot of UV tolerance and subject to crazing with expansion and contraction. Keep it in the garage. Just my opinion and old school technique I'm sure some will disagree with my method but has worked for me. Good Luck
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To each his own but I could use lacquer and make it just as shiny and deep as BC/CC. About 15-20 coats and you can reach down into it and get a hand full.
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I don't think that woodsman1172 is asking how to get a paint job that you can "reach down into it and get a hand full". The factory paint didn't look like that because they didn't use 15-20 coats. But can a BC/CC urethane job be applied to look factory paint ? I'm not sure that it can.
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Guys,
I've been enjoying your conversations. I definitely am old enough to remember late sixties factory paint. IMO, our real problem in restoration using BC/CC is you never get the look, "thin" or "deep". More critically, if you are trying to do an authentic looking restoration, BC/CC can come close with a skilled painter, but it is never spot on in color.
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I don't think that woodsman1172 is asking how to get a paint job that you can "reach down into it and get a hand full". The factory paint didn't look like that because they didn't use 15-20 coats. But can a BC/CC urethane job be applied to look factory paint ? I'm not sure that it can.
I think we are on the same page just reading it different. It was posted that BC/CC looks too deep and shiny. I made my remarks just to say that lacquer can be made to look like that too. I'm extremely happy with my paint and it don't have that thick plastic look. It really looks more like a good lacquer job or single stage. I've had several people at cruse-in's ask if it was lacquer.
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10-4
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Thanks for all your replies; I'm grateful for the tips to getting an acceptable finish without having to go the BC/CC path.
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To get the correct tape line edge on your stripes, base clear the car, using 1500 cut with a hard block until you see no ripples or orange peel, Layout stripes and shoot over the clear, hard block stripes and polish car, as long as the base is laid down flat after you hard block the CLEAR it will look more like polished lacquer than you can imagine.
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Using grits higher than 800-1000, depending on whether you are speaking of CAMI or FEPA grade, decreases mechanical adhesion for topcoats and is not recommended. I shoot flowcoats over P800 and clear lays down nicely. Single stage(SS) metallics and painters with limited experience are not a good combination. These cars were not clearcoated, they were reflowed to achieve a unifom appearance. Start buffing SS and distrupt the metallic and blotchiness is the result. Today's lacquer is not formulated like that of 43 years ago. Urethanes are superior systems. Want more paint info on lacquer and urethane from professionals in collision and restoration? Go to Refinish Network: http://www.refinishnetwork.com/ People there paint all day, every day. I stopped using lacquer in 1984 shortly after entering the industry.
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I neglected to state that I cut the actual stripe area with 600.