CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Originality => Topic started by: 69Z28-RS on January 31, 2013, 02:20:55 PM
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I removed and disassembled my original 302 engine in my Z28 many years ago, stored the parts away (using the 'store' term loosely), and installed a 350 LT-1 engine for awhile. The car has sat undriven in my garage since 1980, but the last 3-4 yrs, reading this forum has gotten my juices flowing about cleaning up the car, reinstalling all the original parts, etc. I spent probably a year searching thru my 'garage 'storage' looking for the parts I removed and *stored*... :). but hadn't been able to find a 'green tipped' oil dipstick, which most of the stuff I'd read said my Z28 should have come with. a week or so ago, I saw a dipstick/tube laying with a pile of 'crap' (in storage in my garage), but noticed it didn't have the green tip, but it triggered my old memory a bit. This one had a flattened tip on the handle and no green tip, see photos, so I've been searching for information on original '69 Z28 dipsticks.
I came across a great thread and post on Yenko.net regarding '69 Z28 dip sticks.. link below for anyone wanting some great data!!
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=416817#Post416817
This thread and post with labeled photos, seems to totally address the question of '69 Z28 dip sticks.. :)
AND.. I find that I do have my original dip stick.. which makes it even more great!
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They were not originally "green tipped" but some dip sticks sold as service replacements are. The picture you posted with the flatened handle end looks more like what I would expect to see as production line pieces.
-Mark.
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There were several older threads on this subject, but the pictures have disappeared.
Here are a couple of photos of an original '69 302 dipstick. From the bottom of the metal seal cup, it's 18-7/8" to the tip, 17-5/8" to the "add" mark, and 16-3/4" to the "full" mark.
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JohnZ,
Your dipstick matches mine.. :).. and match the photos supplied in the Yenko.net link I referenced earlier.
Note: I also did fine an older post from you that also supported that, but there is an abundance of faulty information on the Camaro boards about 'correct green tipped' dip sticks.. and that threw me off in finding mine in my junked up garage for a LONG time.. :)
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Maybe there were some "dipsticks" posting bad info?
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They were not originally "green tipped" but some dip sticks sold as service replacements are. The picture you posted with the flatened handle end looks more like what I would expect to see as production line pieces.
-Mark.
Mark, as far as I know there have been many 69 origiinal Z/28's with a green tip. What you are referring to (IMHO) are the service replacements that had a green tip and dimple impression that the originals did not have. This topic has been discussed and I'm sure both the green tip with no dimple (impression) and the one shown in this thread are correct. Other words, more than one is correct.
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Yup, there were two (at least) different dipsticks used in production for SB's.
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So here's mine, which I had thought was original? Am I correct?
Jimmy V.
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Jim,
It looks identical to the green tipped production unit identified in the Yenko.net link I posted earlier; check it out. That article also says it should be stamped as such: "ADD ! ! FULL USE GM 6041-M QUALITY MS OIL M".
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Gary, I have the flat tipped one as well. I don't know if would be worth everyones time, I have roughly researched this as well when trying to figure out if my dipstick was original. From what I found it seems like the earlier cars had the green tip possibly, and then at one point switched to the flat tip. I don''t know if this was a Z/28 thing only or all small blocks. My 08C norwood car has the flat tip design, which I believe to be original to the car. If those of us who believe they have the original could chime in we might have a rough idea when they switched. I understand there isn't a date code on the dip stick so it may be a tough one to piece together.
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My 06A Norwood RSZ28 has the flattened type.
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From what I found it seems like the earlier cars had the green tip possibly, and then at one point switched to the flat tip. I don''t know if this was a Z/28 thing only or all small blocks.
Jives with my Oct '68 built Z.
Jimmy V.
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A dipstick research effort would be an interesting endeavor for CRG.
Sort of like the recent bolt markings done last year.
Mike
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Rather than dump all the *research* effort on Kurt or another CRG member, there's no reason each poster can't add his information to the list.
Using the previously submitted information, I'd suggest something like the below, distinguishing between 'green tip', and flat style, per the earlier identifying posts here and on Yenko.net (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=416817#Post416817).
Each new addition can be added to the bottom of the list by the poster thus we can keep a running tally...
type 1) flattened handle on end, no PN, no plastic tip, stamped "ADD | | FULL USE GM 6041-M QUALITY MS OIL E". (E turned 90 deg).
type 2) light green tip on handle, no PN, no dimple, stamped "ADD ! ! FULL USE GM 6041-M QUALITY MS OIL M".
Member Production Dipstick
Plant Week Type
69Z28-RS NOR 09C flat
JOHNZ NOR 02? flat
BULLITT65 NOR 08C flat
RSZMJT NOR 06A flat
jdv69z ? 10(68)? flat
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Had a Nov 68 built DZ motor that had the green tip dip stick with the same lettering as JohnZ noted. He has posted that picture many times over the years and I used that picture to compare it to mine and others back in 2008. The later green service replacement dipsticks with the indent/impression have different wording. You will find mixtures of dipsticks on many cars which I'm assuming is due to different suppliers. Have a 67 327 with the same flattened handle (exact) as example shown but the wording is different on the stick. Maybe during 69 camaro model year the flat type was the predominant supplier. :)
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jdv69z ? 10(68)? flat
Norwod 10/68
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Each new poster should copy this and add his information to the list before posting.
type 1) flattened handle on end, no PN, no plastic tip, stamped "ADD | | FULL USE GM 6041-M QUALITY MS OIL E". (E turned 90 deg).
type 2) light green tip on handle, no PN, no dimple, stamped "ADD ! ! FULL USE GM 6041-M QUALITY MS OIL M".
Member Production Dipstick
Plant Week Type
69Z28-RS NOR 09C flat
JOHNZ NOR 02D flat
BULLITT65 NOR 08C flat
RSZMJT NOR 06A flat
jdv69z NOR 10(68) flat
(add yours here)
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This is the green tipped stick out of the Nov68 built DZ motor. Having the GM 6041 M is the key I believe as judges seem to key on that.
Writing on the stick is the same as what's on the pic supplied by JohnZ.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/100_7913_zpsea579bb4.jpg)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/100_7914_zps6749bc7a.jpg)
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My 05A Z has the flattened type.
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Each new poster should copy this and add his information to the list before posting.
type 1) flattened handle on end, no PN, no plastic tip, stamped "ADD | | FULL USE GM 6041-M QUALITY MS OIL E". (E turned 90 deg).
type 2) green tip on handle, no PN, no dimple, stamped "ADD ! ! FULL USE GM 6041-M QUALITY MS OIL M".
Member Production Dipstick
Plant Week Type
69Z28-RS NOR 09C flat
JOHNZ NOR 02D flat
BULLITT65 NOR 08C flat
RSZMJT NOR 06A flat
jdv69z NOR 10(68) flat
68CamaroZ28 ? 11(68) Green tip
X77-69Z28 NOR 05A flat
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Member Production Dipstick
Plant Week Type
69Z28-RS NOR 09C flat
JOHNZ NOR 02D flat
BULLITT65 NOR 08C flat
RSZMJT NOR 06A flat
jdv69z NOR 10(68) flat
68CamaroZ28 NOR 11(68) Green tip
X77-69Z28 NOR 05A flat
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firstgenaddict - NOR - 10D (68) - Flat
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Member Production Dipstick
Plant Week Type
69Z28-RS NOR 09C flat
JOHNZ NOR 02D flat
BULLITT65 NOR 08C flat
RSZMJT NOR 06A flat
jdv69z NOR 10(68) flat
68CamaroZ28 NOR 11(68) Green tip
X77-69Z28 NOR 05A flat
z28z11 NOR 01C flat
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This is the green tipped stick out of the Nov68 built DZ motor. Having the GM 6041 M is the key I believe as judges seem to key on that.
Writing on the stick is the same as what's on the pic supplied by JohnZ.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/100_7913_zpsea579bb4.jpg)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/100_7914_zps6749bc7a.jpg)
Latebuildz NOR 10C flat
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My 04B '69 Z has the same style as John Z. Flat tip, same text, 90 deg "E".
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My 11D(68) Norwood 1969 RS/SS 350 Convert has the same stick that John Z has (flat).
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(trying to bring the list up to date)...
Re: 69 smallblock (302) Oil dip sticks
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Each new poster should copy this and add his information to the list before posting.
type 1) flattened handle on end, no PN, no plastic tip, stamped "ADD | | FULL USE GM 6041-M QUALITY MS OIL E". (E turned 90 deg).
type 2) green tip on handle, no PN, no dimple, stamped "ADD ! ! FULL USE GM 6041-M QUALITY MS OIL M".
Member Production Dipstick
Plant Week Type
69Z28-RS NOR 09C flat
JOHNZ NOR 02D flat
BULLITT65 NOR 08C flat
RSZMJT NOR 06A flat
jdv69z NOR 10(68) flat
68CamaroZ28 NOR 11(68) Green tip
X77-69Z28 NOR 05A flat
z28z11 NOR 01C flat
Boston14 NOR 11D (68) flat
Hans L 04B flat
LatebuildZ Nov68 green tip
LatebuildZ NOR 10C flat
firstgenaddict NOR 10D (68) flat
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Just a suggestion - it's easier to see trends if the data is organized by build date.
Also, this research is applicable to any 69 SB.
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Re: 69 smallblock V8 (302, 307, 350) Oil dip sticks (reorganizing per Kurt's suggestion)
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type 1) Flattened handle on end, no PN, no plastic tip, stamped "ADD | | FULL USE GM 6041-M QUALITY MS OIL E ". (E turned 90 deg).
type 2) Green tip on handle, no PN, no dimple, stamped "ADD | | FULL USE GM 6041-M QUALITY MS OIL M ".
Member Production Dipstick
Plant Week Type
jdv69z NOR 10(68) flat
firstgenaddict NOR 10D (68) flat
LatebuildZ ?? Nov(68 ) green tip
68CamaroZ28 NOR 11 (68) green tip
Boston14 NOR 11D (68) flat
z28z11 NOR 01C flat
JOHNZ NOR 02D flat
Hans L ?? 04B flat
X77-69Z28 NOR 05A flat
RSZMJT NOR 06A flat
BULLITT65 NOR 08C flat
69Z28-RS NOR 09C flat
LatebuildZ NOR 10C flat
Where are the LA cars??
Each new poster should copy this and add his information appropriately to the list before posting.
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Added one -
Member Production Dipstick
Plant Week Type
jdv69z NOR 10(68) flat
firstgenaddict NOR 10D (68) flat
LatebuildZ ?? Nov(68 ) green tip
68CamaroZ28 NOR 11 (68) green tip
Boston14 NOR 11D (68) flat
z28z11 (X77) NOR 01C flat
JOHNZ NOR 02D flat
z28z11 (Z11) NOR 03D flat
Hans L ?? 04B flat
X77-69Z28 NOR 05A flat
RSZMJT NOR 06A flat
BULLITT65 NOR 08C flat
69Z28-RS NOR 09C flat
LatebuildZ NOR 10C flat
Regards,
Steve
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Question: My green tip dipstick does not have the "Use GM...." stamped on it anywhere. Just the add/fill markings. Does that mean anything?
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First week 06A
Member Production Dipstick
Plant Week Type
jdv69z NOR 10(68) flat
firstgenaddict NOR 10D (68) flat
LatebuildZ ?? Nov(68 ) green tip
68CamaroZ28 NOR 11 (68) green tip
Boston14 NOR 11D (68) flat
z28z11 NOR 01C flat
JOHNZ NOR 02D flat
Hans L ?? 04B flat
X77-69Z28 NOR 05A flat
RSZMJT NOR 06A flat
69Z28 NOR 06A flat
BULLITT65 NOR 08C flat
69Z28-RS NOR 09C flat
LatebuildZ NOR 10C flat
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Added my early LA car:
Member Production Dipstick
Plant Week Type
BULLITT65. LA. 10B (68) flat
jdv69z NOR 10(68) flat
firstgenaddict NOR 10D (68) flat
LatebuildZ ?? Nov(68 ) green tip
68CamaroZ28 NOR 11 (68) green tip
Boston14 NOR 11D (68) flat
z28z11 NOR 01C flat
JOHNZ NOR 02D flat
Hans L ?? 04B flat
X77-69Z28 NOR 05A flat
RSZMJT NOR 06A flat
69Z28 NOR 06A flat
BULLITT65 NOR 08C flat
69Z28-RS NOR 09C flat
LatebuildZ NOR 10C flat
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I have had probably more than my share of experience with dipsticks. :)
Red, yellow, gray, brown, etc. Red one shown is a newer reproduction. Others are original.
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Hi All, its my first time engaging in conversation. I have a green tip dipstick on my late Sept 69 302
but mine has 3951576 after - USE SE ENGINE Oil is mine original
Really enjoy the club
regards
John
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Hi All, its my first time engaging in conversation. I have a green tip dipstick on my late Sept 69 302
but mine has 3951576 after - USE SE ENGINE Oil is mine original
Really enjoy the club
regards
John
Welcome to the CRG, John - Norwood or Van Nuys (LA) production ?
Regards,
Steve
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Mine has the flat tip dipstick, but haven't included that as a data point as it was in a CE-block engine. May or may not be original, depends on what was swapped over.
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Thank you Steve,
my car is a Norwood built 3rd week of September
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My Z, under Hans L is VN built. 04B.
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I have had probably more than my share of experience with dipsticks. :)
Red, yellow, gray, brown, etc. Red one shown is a newer reproduction. Others are original.
The yellow tip is a later service replacement is it not?
John Jay, I believe our great contributor JohnZ had stated what’s on your stick is a later service replacement but lots of questions on some dipsticks.
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Mabey off topic but, are the metal paint/finishes different on the flat vs colored tipped? Looks like some green tipped stick metal finishes were black?
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Yellow is 68 and 69 big block. 70 too I think. Light red/salmon is 67 big block. The red reproductions are too “red” and should be somewhere between red and pink. I will see if I can find an original and post if I find one. The green tips I have are from original 69 to 72 engines.
I have had probably more than my share of experience with dipsticks. :)
Red, yellow, gray, brown, etc. Red one shown is a newer reproduction. Others are original.
The yellow tip is a later service replacement is it not?
John Jay, I believe our great contributor JohnZ had stated what’s on your stick is a later service replacement but lots of questions on some dipsticks.
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Does anyone know what a flat white tip big block would have been for?
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Let me do some checking. I have all the colors written down somewhere. From memory, white dipstick was for 6 cylinder engines mid to late 60s.
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Yellow is 68 and 69 big block. 70 too I think. Light red/salmon is 67 big block. The red reproductions are too “red” and should be somewhere between red and pink. I will see if I can find an original and post if I find one. The green tips I have are from original 69 to 72 engines.
I have had probably more than my share of experience with dipsticks. :)
Red, yellow, gray, brown, etc. Red one shown is a newer reproduction. Others are original.
The yellow tip is a later service replacement is it not?
John Jay, I believe our great contributor JohnZ had stated what’s on your stick is a later service replacement but lots of questions on some dipsticks.
Sorry, my comment on your pictured yellow dipstick refers to that one being a later service replacement due to the deep dimple piercing noted on later service replacements.
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Does anyone know what a flat white tip big block would have been for?
I’ve read back where some corvette owners have said their big block had a white tip but no pics and assumed round handle. This was in 68/69 model years.
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You are correct!
I checked the faint writing on the masking tape attached to it. Pulled from a 1972 402 (396) engine. So it’s not the original shape for 68-70. Good eye!
Yellow is 68 and 69 big block. 70 too I think. Light red/salmon is 67 big block. The red reproductions are too “red” and should be somewhere between red and pink. I will see if I can find an original and post if I find one. The green tips I have are from original 69 to 72 engines.
I have had probably more than my share of experience with dipsticks. :)
Red, yellow, gray, brown, etc. Red one shown is a newer reproduction. Others are original.
The yellow tip is a later service replacement is it not?
John Jay, I believe our great contributor JohnZ had stated what’s on your stick is a later service replacement but lots of questions on some dipsticks.
Sorry, my comment on your pictured yellow dipstick refers to that one being a later service replacement due to the deep dimple piercing noted on later service replacements.
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Checked my 68/69 NCRS judging manual #4 and it states 427 dipsticks have a round handle with white tip but at date 7/22/69 per Corvette AIM went to long angled handle with a flattened finger hold and no plug which was used intermittently with the white tipped dipstick until very late in the model year.
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That’s possible.
Remember the dipstick was added at the vehicle assembly plant. So a BBC Corvette could have been different than other models.
White is correct for L6 at least in 1968 and probably other years. Length is obviously different than SBC or BBC.
Darrel do you have a pic of the white tip one you mentioned? Or length?
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Hello CRG,
I am doing research on dip sticks. I purchased this NOS stick around 1996 - 1998 from Rick George when he operated Rick's 1st Gen Camaro, while I was restoring my Norwood 05A '69 Z28, VIN 638712. I am looking for my original dip stick, as I don't recall if it has a flat or round handle. According to Heartbeat City Camaro (they purchased Rick George's inventory), the green tip sticks they sell now do not have the dimple like the late NOS GM version. My stick does have the dimple in the handle just above the cap seal. This stick states "USE SE ENGINE OIL 3951576 M." The stick measure 19-5/16" from the tip to the top edge of the seal cap.
Does anyone else have the same dip stick with the dimple?
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Follow up 2nd question...
Heartbeat City Camaro (HBC) list item #EGP-1495 flat handle dip stick replacement for GM 3951576 as the 1st Design, and item EGP-1494 round handle with green tip replacement stick as the 2nd design.
From what I can tell, the 1st Design flat handle design appears to be what was originally installed at the factory on most '69 Camaro small blocks (per Jerry MacNeish certification reports). Any idea when the 2nd Design was released and if it was only a service replacement dip stick? My factory parts catalog does not list different part numbers for the two designs. I wonder if the "M" stamped in the stick of my round handle unit indicates a design revision change?
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Hello CRG,
I am doing research on dip sticks. I purchased this NOS stick around 1996 - 1998 from Rick George when he operated Rick's 1st Gen Camaro, while I was restoring my Norwood 05A '69 Z28, VIN 638712. I am looking for my original dip stick, as I don't recall if it has a flat or round handle. According to Heartbeat City Camaro (they purchased Rick George's inventory), the green tip sticks they sell now do not have the dimple like the late NOS GM version. My stick does have the dimple in the handle just above the cap seal. This stick states "USE SE ENGINE OIL 3951576 M." The stick measure 19-5/16" from the tip to the top edge of the seal cap.
Does anyone else have the same dip stick with the dimple?
Dipsticks with the dimple u show are later gm service replacements and are not found on survivor sticks.
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Hi Dave,
My oil dipstick is the same as your photos green tip with the dimple and wording "USE SE ENGINE OIL 3951576 M