CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => Originality => Topic started by: lakeholme on January 26, 2013, 07:42:48 PM

Title: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: lakeholme on January 26, 2013, 07:42:48 PM
Could someone please post a picture of a 67 or 68 SS 350 engine? Preferably in the car... as close to original as possible... without cowl plenum or induction, please....
Better yet, if you could email me a detailed one, PM me and I'll send you my email address.
I need it for a club discussion in mid-February.  Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: 1968RSZ28 on January 26, 2013, 08:19:52 PM
Phillip, attached is a photo of Charley's '68 RS/SS engine bay.  The power brake booster and master cylinder are not original.

Paul
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: Mike S on January 26, 2013, 08:28:16 PM
The firewall is that glossy?

Mike
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: 1968RSZ28 on January 26, 2013, 08:33:37 PM
The firewall is that glossy?

Mike

Mike, the firewall appears untouched.  See attached photo...

Paul
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: Mike S on January 26, 2013, 08:37:11 PM
 Seeing the reflection of some parts is what caught my attention. I haven't seen a firewall that glossy before.

Mike
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: lakeholme on January 26, 2013, 08:43:07 PM
Thanks, Paul!

I could use any other pictures with all original parts (or replaced to original).
Not that I'm knocking Charley's car.  That pic is great for showing smog pump, etc.
My problem is my guys tend to get all caught up in pointing out unoriginal stuff, instead of discussing the point at hand --which in this case is going to be performance.

Once again, you guys are a veritable well of information!
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: tmodel66 on January 27, 2013, 09:27:23 AM
The firewall looks like it has a hard tape line across it. I'm not saying it is but it looks like it has been taped off and painted.
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: 68Zproject on January 27, 2013, 09:34:56 PM
The firewall looks like it has a hard tape line across it. I'm not saying it is but it looks like it has been taped off and painted.

Look at the pic in reply #3.
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: lakeholme on January 28, 2013, 02:05:14 AM
In the meantime I'm looking for 67 or 68 SS 350 pictures, original as possible.
Please...
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: Charley on January 28, 2013, 03:03:40 AM
That is orig firewall paint and yes the low mile cars i have seen are that way. The low mile 68 L78 we had at MCACN was also that glossy. Most people restore with a flatter black.
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: Charley on January 28, 2013, 03:38:48 AM
68 L78 low mile
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: maroman on January 28, 2013, 11:37:08 AM
Phil, it's been a few years since I've really looked at a rule book. Is there still a class for Impalas with 427 and three carbs? There was also a class for '69 Camaros with LT1 engines. I even spoke to the "boss" and got no response. The 04A and 04B class is a big problem right now. They ruined a good thing and then made it worse, the natives are NOT happy. I hope you can straighten them out!!  Doug
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: Charley on January 28, 2013, 02:31:10 PM
Also notice the finish of the brake booster in the pic above. A little faded but backs up how Brakeboosters.com has been doing them.
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: Mark on January 28, 2013, 04:54:52 PM
Your getting back into that what black paint was used in the blackout process (at least at Norwood), that also includes the tail panel and rockers on big blocks, and style trim cars (the rockers).  How many blacks do you think there were there in the paint system (clue, its 1 less than 2).  The same black was used for tail panels, rockers and firewall.  The stripes on Z28's (the only car with stripes painted by fisher) were done in the body shop soon after the color coat was applied, not in the blackout booth, so they had access to the gloss black used to paint the entire car, GM painted the front half stripes (and the entire front half of the car) in their paint shop well after the blackout had been applied by Fisher.  The discussion on what happens to the various finishes if its buffed or not (no one ever buffed the firewall) has been going on for years.
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on January 28, 2013, 05:06:17 PM
Also notice the finish of the brake booster in the pic above. A little faded but backs up how Brakeboosters.com has been doing them.
Charley,  I'm curious about what you mean precisely here.. '.. how BrakeBoosters' has been doing them?'...   Do they do them good?  or ?   original or ??    I haven't compared booster restorers so I'm ignorant here.. :)
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: Charley on January 28, 2013, 07:27:53 PM
In my opinion Brakeboosters.com does them correctly. There has been discussion before that they are too shiny. If you search their site they show examples of ones that they have taken apart to show just how shiney they are before the elements under the hood degrade them. Alot of the boosters I see today that have been restored are not even as shiny as the survivor one I posted above.
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on January 28, 2013, 07:35:30 PM
I'm glad to hear that Charley, since Steve has my booster now.. :)
Just today received my MC back from Whitepost (for sleeving) - along with their warning and note about NOT using silicone brake fluid.. but I'm going to ignore that as I've got 3 cars which have had it for 20-25 yrs without issues.   I elected to send Brake Boosters my booster, rather than Whitepost after seeing some recommendations on this board, and seeing his website and talking to him.
First booster I've ever had rebuilt, so I'm a bit nervous about it.   
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: Mike S on January 28, 2013, 07:46:56 PM
  Steve's work is excellent but remember the final results depend on the base metal condition. So, if there are pits then you will see them in the finished product though they will be plated. I'm at work now so I can't post a picture but if you want to see his work let me know.

Mike
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: 1968RSZ28 on January 28, 2013, 08:52:18 PM
If you search their site they show examples of ones that they have taken apart to show just how shiney they are before the elements under the hood degrade them.

Here's what Charley is referring to...  http://www.brakeboosters.com/origboosterplt.htm

Paul
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: lakeholme on January 29, 2013, 12:30:09 AM
Phil, it's been a few years since I've really looked at a rule book. Is there still a class for Impalas with 427 and three carbs? There was also a class for '69 Camaros with LT1 engines. I even spoke to the "boss" and got no response. The 04A and 04B class is a big problem right now. They ruined a good thing and then made it worse, the natives are NOT happy. I hope you can straighten them out!!  Doug

Alright, if you guys are going to keep hijacking my thread, I might as well make myself useful...  ;D  ;D  ;D

Doug,
That would probably be class 36b.  That's where Hi-Po Chevys and Olds, 57-69, go, including SS, Z28, COPO Camaros, etc. And yes, Impalas.... Not sure about the three carbs part of your question. If you have a 427 Impala that came from the factory with three carbs, then get factory documentation together and send copies to the VP of Judging to get a ruling.  As for the "boss", Steve is the Executive Director, not the VP of Judging. Class judging is determined by that VP and his/her committee. I cannot speak for him, but I will tell you the couple of times I've emailed him a question he got back to me within 24 hours.  If he didn't have the answer, he would direct me to where it could be found.  Look at the description of Class 36 below.

Okay, when was the last time you did look at the guidelines?  ;D  ???  4a & 4b?  4a is small vehicles prior to 41. 4b covers up to 88.  That is cars like Bantams, currently.  Class 27 is the Production class where most Chevrolets used to go.  For example, 27g for 67 and 27h for 68-69 first gen Camaros. When AACA started class 36 a few years ago that pulled all the true muscle cars out of my 27h class.  Also, it pulled my friend Jerry L's Senior Grand National 68 SS out and made it a whole lot easier on the rest of us.  To tell you the truth (and strictly for bragging rights), I took my car to a different region's meeet, got my first, and then put it back in DPC to stay.  My 68 is a driver.  I bought it for tours.

The current VP for Judging is a great guy and does a lot for the hobby.  But the officers will change next month in Philly at the Annual National Meeting.  I will take your question to whoever takes that position.  He/she will probably tell me to tell you exactly what I said above.  I do remember our PM conversation about muscle cars.  I think the class 36 satisfied most muscle car owners.  I judged last year's Grand Nationals (early Corvettes for me), and I did not see any Chevy muscle car owners go away mad.  IMHO, since AACA does not check numbers, any car that does well in model specific judging (Camaro Nationals, for example) should easily get a first at any AACA meet... just bring your AIM with you to show factory documentation.

Straighten them out??? That will have to wait till I retire... I can't keep my staff at work straight most days....  ;D  ;D  ;D

36. FACTORY HIGH
PERFORMANCE VEHICLES
The Factory High Performance class has been developed especially for performance oriented domestic vehicles, from their beginnings in the 1950’s thru their "heyday" of the late 60’s and early 70’s and on. Eligibility for vehicles in this category is evaluated on a case by case basis, taking into consideration individual merits such as weight to horsepower ratio, the manufacturer’s actual intent and the era in which the vehicle was built. These are just a few of the qualifying points of consideration. This class is a work in progress, and will continue to be developed over time. Applications for additional vehicles to be added to the existing list of accepted vehicles must be submitted in writing, along with any accompanying factory documentation, to the Vice President of Class Judging. The name and address of the Vice President of Class Judging can be found in each issue of the Antique Automobile. Always check AACA Headquarters for the most current listing of accepted vehicles in this class.
--2013 AACA Guidelines

Okay, so what did we decide about glossy firewalls?  ???

BTW, thanks again, Paul.  Cool car, Charley! Interesting discussion....

Now, will someone take pity on me and post another, original SS 350 engine pic for me...
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: maroman on January 29, 2013, 01:06:46 AM
Thanks Phil, it was {too} early in the AM when I hijacked you. Steve is good for his position, even though I beat him up every chance I get. Ask him how he became known as Knothead. Doug
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: lakeholme on January 29, 2013, 12:58:08 PM
Could someone please post a picture of a 67 or 68 SS 350 engine? Preferably in the car... as close to original as possible... without cowl plenum or induction, please....
Better yet, if you could email me a detailed one, PM me and I'll send you my email address.
I need it for a club discussion in mid-February.  Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: 1968RSZ28 on January 29, 2013, 05:37:22 PM
Phillip, I feel your pain.  Do you have Frank Incremona's '67-'69 Camaro Fact Book?  There are many black and white photos of both '67 & '68 SS engines in it.

Paul
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: vtfb68 on January 29, 2013, 09:00:05 PM
Charley,
 What kind of -- -- paint do you have?
  Victor
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: Mike S on January 29, 2013, 09:15:45 PM
 When I restored my one 67 in the 1980's I used GM Reconditioning black paint for the firewall, rocker and rear panel blackouts.
The gloss of that paint looks exact to my other 67 that still has the original black tail panel.
It makes sense to me there would be a limited choice (like 1) for blackouts.


Mike
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: lakeholme on January 29, 2013, 10:27:09 PM
Phillip, I feel your pain.  Do you have Frank Incremona's '67-'69 Camaro Fact Book?  There are many black and white photos of both '67 & '68 SS engines in it.

Paul

Yes, but this is for a Powerpoint presentation, and I want to use original pics (un-copyrighted).
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: lakeholme on January 29, 2013, 10:28:09 PM
Could someone please post a picture of a 67 or 68 SS 350 engine? Preferably in the car... as close to original as possible... without cowl plenum or induction, please....
Better yet, if you could email me a detailed one, PM me and I'll send you my email address.
I need it for a club discussion in mid-February.  Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: maroman on January 29, 2013, 10:51:50 PM
Found this one.
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: lakeholme on January 30, 2013, 12:36:42 AM
Thanks!  ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: maroman on January 30, 2013, 01:09:46 AM
Can I ask exactly what detail are you looking for?
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: lakeholme on January 30, 2013, 01:24:51 AM
Can I ask exactly what detail are you looking for?

Just a full on view like the one you posted.  We're not really going to talk that much about engine parts and accesories.  The discussion is more about engine performance: hp, torque, etc.
Title: Re: 67 or 68 SS 350 Picture?
Post by: lakeholme on February 09, 2013, 03:41:18 AM
Phil, it's been a few years since I've really looked at a rule book. Is there still a class for Impalas with 427 and three carbs? There was also a class for '69 Camaros with LT1 engines. I even spoke to the "boss" and got no response. The 04A and 04B class is a big problem right now. They ruined a good thing and then made it worse, the natives are NOT happy. I hope you can straighten them out!!  Doug

Okay, I said I would ask... And I did. Muscle cars will remain in classes as I mentioned above.  Word from National meeting in Philly.  Anyone who can do well at Camaro Nationals, etc should do fine with AACA.